Say Goodbye to GTO's

[Blackmobile]

http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dl...9/1003&refsect (http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060221/REG/60221009/1003&refsect)=

[MarauderMark]

Another muscle car bites the dust..:shake:

[Smokie]

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showcase/files/2/4/8/Shootout2005033Large.jpg


Goodbye GTO!!!

[CBT]

Goodbye GTO!!! Almost choked on my cig, thanks!

[jim geary]

Big mistake. The GTO was one of the best cars Pontiac had going for it.
Oh well GM's loss, ricers gain.

[O's Fan Rich]

Well kepp in mind the new "F" bodies are on their way... don't wanna hurt the Scuzmaro sales.

[duhtroll]

I don't care how fast they are. They are so damn fugly no one wants them. They don't sell.

I wanted one of these cars when I heard they were coming back. Then I saw one. :puke:

I'm happy with my MM.

[TripleTransAm]

Would be interesting to see a Firebird equivalent to the upcoming Camaro. As with my Mercurys, I always prefer the uplevel versions of a platform. I can sacrifice ultimate performance to get my ass pampered a bit.

http://www.stevepereira.com/misc/ta_3c.jpg

[SID210SA]

I too like My MM, but I must say I liked the GTO...it fit nice and was fun to drive....IMO I think the price was it's downfall....to expensive for a small car...but there is nothing that I have been in that compares to my MM, again IMO

[sweetair]

I don't care how fast they are. They are so damn fugly no one wants them. They don't sell.

I wanted one of these cars when I heard they were coming back. Then I saw one. :puke:

I'm happy with my MM.What he said^^

[CRUZTAKER]

Almost choked on my cig, thanks!

Yeah...but Mr.X isn't N/A any longer....:hide:

Sorry X.

You beat him anyway.:P


I too like My MM, but I must say I liked the GTO...it fit nice ....
The interior is really nice.

[1 Bad Merc]

Goodriddance to an ugly as* souped up Grand Prix/Grand Am! I drove a couple of GTO's and they were very quick but they were tough to get in and out of and everything inside looked like cheap plastic crap. Not what I would expect to get for spending $35,000.00 on a car.

I am tired of GM/Ford selling us rebadged shoeboxed European cars! When will these corporate execs learn that Americans like orginal design, (Skip the Aztec) chrome, nostalgia and comfy style. There is a reason that Chrysler is kicking both their butts lately!

Phew....I can have a cocktail now.

[rocknrod]

I don't care how fast they are. They are so damn fugly no one wants them. They don't sell.
I wanted one of these cars when I heard they were coming back. Then I saw one. :puke:
I'm happy with my MM.
Amen Bro!.....

[Haggis]

Would be interesting to see a Firebird equivalent to the upcoming Camaro. As with my Mercurys, I always prefer the uplevel versions of a platform. I can sacrifice ultimate performance to get my ass pampered a bit.

http://www.stevepereira.com/misc/ta_3c.jpg
Steve where did you find that pic? Cool!!! If they make it, I might be interested.:hmmm:

[TripleTransAm]

Steve where did you find that pic? Cool!!! If they make it, I might be interested.:hmmm:


I made it. As soon as it passes crash testing, I'll be taking orders on it for a possible delivery by late 2006.

:)

Seriously though, I cobbled that up using the photo of that Camaro that was shown at the Detroit show this year. Want a gold Special Edition version?

http://www.stevepereira.com/misc/ta_2.jpg


With a T/A like this on the market and an upscale elongated version of the Mustang called a Cougar, I think the sporty coupe market would be just right.
(I think I did this Cougar mockup back in late 2004) http://www.stevepereira.com/misc/2005cougar1.jpg

[Haggis]

I made it. As soon as it passes crash testing, I'll be taking orders on it for a possible delivery by late 2006.

:)

Seriously though, I cobbled that up using the photo of that Camaro that was shown at the Detroit show this year. Want a gold Special Edition version?

http://www.stevepereira.com/misc/ta_2.jpg


With a T/A like this on the market and an upscale elongated version of the Mustang called a Cougar, I think the sporty coupe market would be just right.
(I think I did this Cougar mockup back in late 2004) http://www.stevepereira.com/misc/2005cougar1.jpg
LOVE the T/A, but the back of the Cougar looks too much like a Mustang. You should submit these to the design people at Pontiac and Ford.

[TripleTransAm]

This is sounding so much like the previous generation F-car demise, and in a way the current Marauder's demise as well. Less than overwhelming sales, lack of development funds to get a replacement car done in time to address urgently required design changes (ie. new regulations), so the entire car gets the ax.

The pity is that the world class powertrain will lose one of its homes. Hopefully whatever replaces it a few years down the line will do it justice.

[MarauderMark]

With a T/A like this on the market and an upscale elongated version of the Mustang called a Cougar, I think the sporty coupe market would be just right.
(I think I did this Cougar mockup back in late 2004) http://www.stevepereira.com/misc/2005cougar1.jpg
This is really sharp.Nice job:up:

[Marauder2005]

I made it. As soon as it passes crash testing, I'll be taking orders on it for a possible delivery by late 2006.

:)

Seriously though, I cobbled that up using the photo of that Camaro that was shown at the Detroit show this year. Want a gold Special Edition version?

http://www.stevepereira.com/misc/ta_2.jpg


With a T/A like this on the market and an upscale elongated version of the Mustang called a Cougar, I think the sporty coupe market would be just right.
(I think I did this Cougar mockup back in late 2004) http://www.stevepereira.com/misc/2005cougar1.jpg

I want both, NOW!

[Leadfoot281]

The GTO's "styling" is completely anonymous. You could rob a bank with one and everyone at the scene would tell the cops that the robber fled in a Grand Am, Gran Prix, Generic Motors Blob, whatever.

I wouldn't call it ugly. Boring, dull, anonymous, plain, and borderline invisible maybe.

The GTO was the perfect car for celebritys to get some privacy from the papparazi.

"Hey, was that J Lo?"
"Couldn't be! She wouldn't be caught dead driving a Grand Am!"

[TripleTransAm]

I wouldn't call it ugly. Boring, dull, anonymous, plain, and borderline invisible maybe.


Here are two red 1964 Pontiacs. One is a GTO and the other one isn't.

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=86 89&d=1140667066

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=86 90&d=1140667098

Seems like the boring/bland formula worked well in the original iteration of the GTO. Had they been able to price it more realistically (sound familiar?) they might have sold a bunch more. Had dealers not gotten greedy, they might have launched into the market a lot better than they did (sound familiar?).

And we can say what we want, but they did manage to handily outsell our MMs.

[MarauderMarc]

The GTO's "styling" is completely anonymous. You could rob a bank with one and everyone at the scene would tell the cops that the robber fled in a Grand Am, Gran Prix, Generic Motors Blob, whatever.

I wouldn't call it ugly. Boring, dull, anonymous, plain, and borderline invisible maybe.

The GTO was the perfect car for celebritys to get some privacy from the papparazi.

"Hey, was that J Lo?"
"Couldn't be! She wouldn't be caught dead driving a Grand Am!"
J-Los azz couldnt fit in a GTO.

I for one hated the GTO. To me it was as bad as the mid-80s Nova.

[RCSignals]

Surely there is no surprise in this?

[Donny Carlson]

Seems like the boring/bland formula worked well in the original iteration of the GTO. Had they been able to price it more realistically (sound familiar?) they might have sold a bunch more. Had dealers not gotten greedy, they might have launched into the market a lot better than they did (sound familiar?).

And we can say what we want, but they did manage to handily outsell our MMs.

I read that the exchange rate between Australian and US Dollars changed, making the price higher than GM wanted it to be. Eh.

They should have brought it out with the LS2, priced it lower, and it would have sold up to their expectations (18K per year?)

Interesting that the success of the Solstice may hinder Pontiac bringing a V8 RWD sport sedan or coupe to market, though I've read that the GTO will likely return if GM greenlights the Camaro (which, from what I've read, is pretty much a done deal).

[the_pack_rat]

Cool.

I can start stocking up on the late model GTO badges now.

I'll make a mint selling them for 10X over cost to Grand Am - Grand Prix & Cavalier owners on Ebay.

:lol:

[the_pack_rat]

http://www.stevepereira.com/misc/ta_2.jpg


http://www.stevepereira.com/misc/2005cougar1.jpg

Nice work !.

I've got to gather up some pics for you one day ......

So you can do some magic on them.

[jerrym3]

No one seems to bite on this, but was the GTO really the first musclecar, or was it the Studebaker Golden Hawk (light body/big Packard motor)? (1957, I believe.)

Wasn't the musclecar formula light body/big motor?

I remember test driving a 1964 Pontiac Tempest convertible back in 1964 and the dealer telling me about this "new option (not car) coming out-the GTO".

[magindat]

Wasn't the musclecar formula light body/big motor?

I remember test driving a 1964 Pontiac Tempest convertible back in 1964 and the dealer telling me about this "new option (not car) coming out-the GTO".

The original Marauder was also an option... not a car.

[MENINBLK]

Hemmings News confirms the GTO kill.
http://www.hemmings.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/email.newsletter2/volume/1/issue/37/id/417/refer/news/emlid/115698/#417

GM can't afford to modify the ****g airbags ? JEESE !!!
They sold as many GTOs in one year as Ford sold Marauders in 2 years...

And talk about rebadged Foreign cars, Chrysler is doing so well because they are rebadging MERCEDES.
The difference is that there isn't as much electronics in the Chrysler as the Mercedes,
so the Chryslers are getting a better rap than Mercedes is right now...

But Mercedes has a few new models this year.

[RCSignals]

No one seems to bite on this, but was the GTO really the first musclecar, .....................


No, it was all marketing hype.

The formula that created the first GTO was not new, how it was marketed was.

What about the available in 1957 Ford Custom Business coupe ordered with a Supercharged 312 V8, or even one of the dual quad 312 V8s that year?

They were to be had, just not labelled with a fancy name.

[Leadfoot281]

Generic Motors was selling 70k Firebirds and Camaros/year and they got the axe too.

The original GTO sold insanely well because it was an entry level performance/muscle car. Most consider it the first true muscle car.

That wasn't the case with the metric GTO.

The original GTO was one of a kind, new-breed machine that people could afford.

That wasn't the case with the metric GTO.

The original GTO sold itself at street lights and drag strips from coast to coast. People wrote songs about it!!!!!

That wasn't the case with the metric GTO.

The original GTO spawned the Mustang, Camaro, 'Cuda, Trans Am, etc...:)

The metric GTO spawned this thread.:sleepy:

As far as styling goes, well, a pair of well placed Goodyear stripes, is as much styling as some people need.:burnout:

Ever seen a metric GTO lay down a nice patch? Me neither. That sort of thing doesn't happen in a climate controlled garage, under a car cover.

[Breadfan]

Here are two red 1964 Pontiacs. One is a GTO and the other one isn't.

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=86 89&d=1140667066

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=86 90&d=1140667098

Seems like the boring/bland formula worked well in the original iteration of the GTO. Had they been able to price it more realistically (sound familiar?) they might have sold a bunch more. Had dealers not gotten greedy, they might have launched into the market a lot better than they did (sound familiar?).

And we can say what we want, but they did manage to handily outsell our MMs.

Now there is a good point! The original GTO fit EXACTLY what the current GTO is, well, aside from the Autsralian ancestry that is.

At anyrate, when you look at it this way, the GTO is retro. I guess everyone was wanting a Judge. ;)

[RCSignals]

................

The original GTO spawned the Mustang, ..............


Not exactly. The Mustang was in 'development' long before 1964, and Officially debuted in April 1964.

The original GTO was a marketing exercise, a Pontiac Tempest with a larger V8, and originally not a lot more.

[TripleTransAm]

The original GTO sold itself at street lights and drag strips from coast to coast. People wrote songs about it!!!!!


Actually, I'd say "songs were written about it". As part of the marketing attack, the ad agency included the song approach. Original? Probably not, considering it was an era when Beach Boys were praising their 409s (one of my favorite tunes as a very young child). But it probably worked a lot better for the enthusiast image than a commercial involving a female driver putting on suntan lotion when the OIL light comes on... :shake:



The original GTO spawned the Mustang...


The cars were occupying two different market segments. The first Mustang was a gussied-up Falcon compact with lo-po underpinnings that was initially aimed at the secretary market (ever seen the suspension setup on those early ones?). Eventually the planners wised up and cobbled together a hi-po small block to stuff into the car later in the model year (I suspect the GTO might have had a hand in showing there was a market for a hi-po powertrain option).

The GTO was a gussied-up Tempest intermediate with a bigger engine and some heavy-duty powertrain and suspension parts thrown in, with a dash of visual flair (grilles, emblems, dash, wheels, fake hood scoops, etc.) and the cojones to use a model name usually associated with Ferrari. Add a heap of marketing aura and a legend was created.

I believe the GTO is credited as having "created" the musclecar because it was the first time a coherent package was created and marketed as something special. For a fairly long time, manufacturers had been offering cars with potent engines (the first Chrysler 300s were notable, as was the first V8 Chevys including the FI'ed 283 in '57) but the GTO offered a one-stop package: better handling, better acceleration, an exclusive "look", some exclusivity/notoriety... all in one package. A bit like comparing a CVPI with a Marauder: many of the bits and pieces are there, but you'll see a lot more thumbs ups given to a Marauder... a LOT more.

One can see how influential that original car was by the sheer number of competitors that cobbled together an "all-inclusive" package to try and get in on that market segment... the '66 Fairlane GT, the 1967 Plymouth GTX, the 1967 Coronet R/T, the 1965 Gran Sports and 442s, the 1966 Chevelle SSs, etc. The arrival of those "packaged" musclecars shows that there was something original about the 1964 GTO. And I wouldn't be surprised if the sudden interest in big engines for smaller cars forced the Mustang to grow in order to accept a 390 in the engine bay, in time to meet the new GM F-cars already slated for large engine usage.


If we compare that with today's market, we see today's offerings being more mature than what was available back then, performance-wise. The current GTO didn't offer anything more original than finally giving the GM fan an opportunity to sample the LSx engines in a sporty RWD platform once again (that wasn't the Corvette). Otherwise, there are plenty of other alternatives for fun sporty coupes. It failed in terms of offering inexpensive performance in a visually low-key exterior (the price shot that point down). To make the same stir as in 1964, I imagine it would be like taking something like a Sunfire and stuffing a V8 in it while convering it to RWD... now THAT would be original and probably exciting in a power-to-weight ratio sort of way. For that matter, the new Solstice is selling like hot cakes... an LSx V8 in that thing with a full factory warranty and a 'special' name (Solstice is kind of effeminate, in my opinion) with enough of a unique look would be a total blast on the market. THAT's the original spirit of the GTO.

[Leadfoot281]

Ok, Ok... Maybe the GTO fans come in two groups; the '64 crowd, and the '70 crowd. I'm one of the '70 fans. The current metric GTO should have gotten a hood tack, snow flake wheels, and some Judge stripes.

Very nice point about the V-8 Solstice. That car would deserve the GTO badge.

The best advertising Ford and GM could do IMO is to put a ton of "Image" cars on the road. One or two at a dealership isn't gonna cut it.

Plymouth Prowler? How many of you ran to Plymouth dealers to look at the prowler and went home with a Voyager? What ever happened to Plymouth anyway?:rolleyes:

How many metric GTO's ended up in zero-milage, private collections? GM blew a big chance to have 100's of thousands of rolling, in-yer-face, billboards on the streets. That's advertising! And it works!

Motor Trend reviews don't sell cars. Getting your a$$ dusted on the street does! I believe it's called "buzz".

RIP GTO. I suspect I'll eventually see every single one of them at a car show, with the same low miles, and plastic on the seats, for the rest of my days.:down:

[TripleTransAm]

Ok, Ok... Maybe the GTO fans come in two groups; the '64 crowd, and the '70 crowd. I'm one of the '70 fans. The current metric GTO should have gotten a hood tack, snow flake wheels, and some Judge stripes.

Back before the new gen GTO came out, there was a lot of speculation on what it would look like, and a lot of amateur concepts were floating around the net. I tried my hand at it and submitted the following to a GTO fan site. I used a publicity photo of the Australian Monaro and added some touches from various GTO images I had. It looks a bit hacked together, but keep in mind I was really unfamiliar with Photoshop at the time. I think I put this together sometime in 2003.

Needless to say, I was a bit surprised when I saw the final version... a bit disappointed with the styling.

Anyway, I think my version was a bit more dramatic looking, but it's all subjective... in any case, if I was to try my hand at a new rendition, it probably wouldn't look so crappy and hacked together.

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=87 11&d=1140766219

[jerrym3]

Possible additions to the start of the musclecar era:

Mid 50's Buick lighter bodied Specials with the Buick Roadmaster engine; car was labled the Buick Century. Too bad the car had the power robbing Dynaflow trans.

Mid 50's Packard Clipper with the big Packard Patrician motor.

Mid 50's Olds 88's with the 98 motor, ie the Super 88. Four speed Hydamatic transmissions (no OD) were pretty quick off the line.

Didn't one of the early Studebaker Hawks come with a supercharger?

Long time ago, I popped the hood on a 53 Merc, 2 dr hardtop, 3 speed on the column, in a used car lot. The flathead V8 had been replaced with an OHV Cadillac V8. Couldn't afford to buy it.

[dwasson]

Did y'all notice that the the GTO had a sales target of 18,000 units per year? Ford based their approval of the Marauder on the same number. It looks like there just aren't that many buyers for cars in these niches.

[b4z]

It is interesting that some of you say that the GTO is indistinguishable from
a Grand Am or a Grand Prix, and somehow that is supossed to be the ultimate insult.
How many of us can tell the difference from a BMW 3 series and a 5 series from 100'?
Probably none.
Is it a bad thing that the 5 looks like the "lowly" 3?

IMO the reason the GTO didn't do well has several components.
Distribution and production delays.
There were literally no GTOs sold until January '04.
By that time other '04s had been on dealers lots for 4+ months.
Updates for the '05s were known to everyone by January '04.
400HP and bigger brakes + hood scoops for the '05s.
Price and dealer gouging.
The MSRP was about $3-4,000 high.
And some dealers asked $5K over that.
I know one guy who paid $38K.

This is also what I was up against when I looked at Maruders in July 2002.
The Marauder and GTO closely parallel each other.
Seems odd that Marauder owners would beat up on their fellow orphan.

Lastly the GTO has been the best car I have ever owned. I paid $26.5K for mine and have never driven a car for this price that offers the total package.
Comfort, speed, quiet interior, rippin' exhaust note, appreciation from everyone who sees it, gas mileage, interior room, etc.

[Vortex]

I sold my 04 GTO to buy my MM because of back seat access and trunk issues, and own a "classic" period 67 GTO, let me throw my two centavos in. The introduction of the 04 GTO was totally screwed up by Pontiac, they had loads of people signed up to pay msrp all over the country but they decided to distribute the first ones to their favorite dealers, resulting in two things: unsold GTOs because dumbass dealers were asking waaayy over msrp and pissed off people who wanted one, who could have been driving around in their new GTO basically providing free advertising for GM. The suits were too stupid and disconnected from the car scene to realize this. The suits also didnt recognize the "power of the pen" on sites similar to this one where those folks who were pissed off vented their frustrations. Eventually, people got their cars 6-8 months down the line but the damage was done.
The arguement about the styling was odd, it may be easy to modernize a smaller car (Mustang) but nobody even makes mid-size cars now. My MM is the same length as my 67 GTO in the garage. Lutz had the right idea bringing over the Aussie Holden, it was and is an outstanding automobile. I never had mine WOT for too long but I can tell you I believe it would have no problem getting to the 165 advertised top speed. It would blow the doors off our stock MMs, and that is to be expected, our cars are much larger. That brings me to practicality. The new GTO is more of a Camaro/Firebird type car. It has pretty decent size back seats but because it is basically a Catera with two doors, access to the back seat is difficult at best. And because they relocated the fuel tank from behind the rear axle to above it, the trunk was smaller than a Camaro!
Finally, it is a fact the styling didnt stand out. I get more looks every day in my MM than I got with my 04 GTO in over a year. It was an ultimate "sleeper" but thats not exactly what I had in mind when I bought it. Sorry to see GM is killing off the GTO. I understand their reasoning for not continuing to ship it from Oz, but I dont see why they cant build something here in the US. Maybe Pontiac is going to do another Firebird off that new Camaro. Bottom line, the 04-06 GTO is biting the dust in a fashion very similar to our MMs, not a good thing for performance car fans.

[RCSignals]

Great review Vortex.

On your point about distribution of cars to dealers, it is a common practice of Ford and DCX as well, to give larger dealers first shipments and access to more allotment. As you say it usually ends up slowing or killing sales.
For these special models, allotment should be based on a Dealers customers. If a small dealer has say 10 customers lined up right now, his allotment should expand to accomodate that. It's supposed to be about selling cars, not seeing how long a car can stay on a lot with 'added market value' or whatever words they use for pricing above MSRP.

[ncmm]

not dead after all. . .
http://www.cleveland.com/autoshow/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/business/1141216290309520.xml&coll=2

maybe the Marauder could make a comeback too!