Mythbusting Marauder-Style

[Breadfan]

Well guys, it's time for us Marauder owners to do some Mythbusting. (I like the show on Discovery, so yeah, I'm gonna steal the name.)

Last night I was working late, and listening to my XM Online service. I was hitting up some comedy talk radio from Opie and Anthony and they have promos during their breaks.

One promo for a car show on XM, talked about a trick for unlocking your car doors if you leave the keys locked inside. Some of you may have already heard of this trick.

Apparnetly you can call home, and have someone pick up your spare key fob. If you hold your mobile phone about 1 foot from your door and they press the unlock button, the signal will get transmitted over the phone and come out at your end, thus unlocking the door.

I personally find this highly unlikely. Preliminary tests this morning show it not working for me. Before I even tried though, I thought about the variables, what would have to work, and what could make it all NOT work.

So for this to work I had to think about how it could be possible.

An infra-red remote control emits it's signals on the infrared band. Sometimes radio antannaes on certain channels (AM often) will pickup the "sound" from the ir transmission. Although the key-fobs are rf (radio frequency) it's conceivable the same could occur, the "sound" of the signal could be picked up by the phone and transmit that way. But this is highly unlikely, and anyway, how would it transfer back from a sound to rf on the other end.

Depending on the frequencies at use here, it's also conceivable that the signal from the fob could be picked up on the carrier wave for the mobile phone. It would then be converted to data on the network, and finally retransmitted to the destination phone as RF again. To me, this is the most possible way this could occur.

That being said, the signal would be coming in, so proximity of the phone to the car might not have that much of an impact right? Technically the RF would be transmitted from the cell tower, your phone at this stage is just a listener for these RF signals...right?

Finally, the notion that you hold the phone near the door makes no sense. The receiver for the rf signals is not near the door handle or mechanical lock. It's probably held under the hood, or under the dashboard. So holding it near the door does nothing to move the signal closer to the receiver.

For a mobile phone to do this also, you must consider a few other points, and answering these will help us understand if this is even possible:

- What frequency does the key fob operate at

- What frequency does each phone work at

- Where is the receiver for the keyless entry system

- Would the transmission have to be from mobile to moble? Or could the person on the other end have a corded land line?

I do know this - if I leave my blackberry near a phone, I can hear the signals coming into it at times. Many times I'll hear noise interferences caused by the phone receiving and transmitting data to sync up. The question at hand, will I hear the rf interference on only receiving signals. (I don't think so, only on transmitting I believe.)

Today I did test it with a friend in the morning. It didn't work. We both have T-Mobile phones and used them to do the test. They operate on TMobiles GPRS system for data. I can switch them to GMS but didn't try that.

A few tests with other phone brands and technologies should cover the available cell phone frequency bands.

Knowing what the key fob operates at (or near) would also help.

Personally I don't see HOW this could ever work across vehicle makes unless the FCC makes all keyfobs operate in a very small bit of wavelength. Between differences there and differences in frequencies used by cell carriers it's hard to believe this would work all the time.

Personally I think i'ts highly improbably it'd work at all - it didn't for me on my first test anyway.

So, if you want, give it a shot. Let us know how you did the test. Make sure your key fob isn't close enough in range to work too before doing the test. :)

It'd be cool to see it work - I can see reasons why it could be theoretically possible, but really with the way the communications work it's highly improbably without some modifications.

So...mythbust away. :)

[Blackened300a]

I didnt hear that promo being played but a interesting concept.
However, I think you have a better chance being WOWed then that actually working.

[Breadfan]

I like your answer actually. :) I wish I had just said that and been fine with it, ha! For some reason this one has captured my imagination and I found myself mulling it over much of the evening.

I believe it'd be possible to do it, but maybe not they way they state!

[Smokie]

Well guys, it's time for us Marauder owners to do some Mythbusting. (I like the show on Discovery, so yeah, I'm gonna steal the name.)

Last night I was working late, and listening to my XM Online service. I was hitting up some comedy talk radio from Opie and Anthony and they have promos during their breaks.

One promo for a car show on XM, talked about a trick for unlocking your car doors if you leave the keys locked inside. Some of you may have already heard of this trick.

Apparnetly you can call home, and have someone pick up your spare key fob. If you hold your mobile phone about 1 foot from your door and they press the unlock button, the signal will get transmitted over the phone and come out at your end, thus unlocking the door.

I personally find this highly unlikely. Preliminary tests this morning show it not working for me. Before I even tried though, I thought about the variables, what would have to work, and what could make it all NOT work.

So for this to work I had to think about how it could be possible.

An infra-red remote control emits it's signals on the infrared band. Sometimes radio antannaes on certain channels (AM often) will pickup the "sound" from the ir transmission. Although the key-fobs are rf (radio frequency) it's conceivable the same could occur, the "sound" of the signal could be picked up by the phone and transmit that way. But this is highly unlikely, and anyway, how would it transfer back from a sound to rf on the other end.

Depending on the frequencies at use here, it's also conceivable that the signal from the fob could be picked up on the carrier wave for the mobile phone. It would then be converted to data on the network, and finally retransmitted to the destination phone as RF again. To me, this is the most possible way this could occur.

That being said, the signal would be coming in, so proximity of the phone to the car might not have that much of an impact right? Technically the RF would be transmitted from the cell tower, your phone at this stage is just a listener for these RF signals...right?

Finally, the notion that you hold the phone near the door makes no sense. The receiver for the rf signals is not near the door handle or mechanical lock. It's probably held under the hood, or under the dashboard. So holding it near the door does nothing to move the signal closer to the receiver.

For a mobile phone to do this also, you must consider a few other points, and answering these will help us understand if this is even possible:

- What frequency does the key fob operate at

- What frequency does each phone work at

- Where is the receiver for the keyless entry system

- Would the transmission have to be from mobile to moble? Or could the person on the other end have a corded land line?

I do know this - if I leave my blackberry near a phone, I can hear the signals coming into it at times. Many times I'll hear noise interferences caused by the phone receiving and transmitting data to sync up. The question at hand, will I hear the rf interference on only receiving signals. (I don't think so, only on transmitting I believe.)

Today I did test it with a friend in the morning. It didn't work. We both have T-Mobile phones and used them to do the test. They operate on TMobiles GPRS system for data. I can switch them to GMS but didn't try that.

A few tests with other phone brands and technologies should cover the available cell phone frequency bands.

Knowing what the key fob operates at (or near) would also help.

Personally I don't see HOW this could ever work across vehicle makes unless the FCC makes all keyfobs operate in a very small bit of wavelength. Between differences there and differences in frequencies used by cell carriers it's hard to believe this would work all the time.

Personally I think i'ts highly improbably it'd work at all - it didn't for me on my first test anyway.

So, if you want, give it a shot. Let us know how you did the test. Make sure your key fob isn't close enough in range to work too before doing the test. :)

It'd be cool to see it work - I can see reasons why it could be theoretically possible, but really with the way the communications work it's highly improbably without some modifications.

So...mythbust away. :)

No, I don't think so. The inputs of a cell phone are limited to a microphone and a camera if it has one. The microphone will pick up Audible frequencies generated by your voice, the FOB does not emit a frequency that will trigger a response from the mike in the phone, the mike in your cell phone does not pick up frequencies outside the hearing range....hell it doesn't even pick up the entire audible spectrum.

[MarauderMarc]

Im gonna try it. Ill let you know if it works.

[Breadfan]

No, I don't think so. The inputs of a cell phone are limited to a microphone and a camera if it has one. The microphone will pick up Audible frequencies generated by your voice, the FOB does not emit a frequency that will trigger a response from the mike in the phone, the mike in your cell phone does not pick up frequencies outside the hearing range....hell it doesn't even pick up the entire audible spectrum.

Yeah, my thoughts exactly about the microphone - it, and its conversion to digital audio, will only cover a very small portion of the audio spectrum. That's how they can compress the voice to fit so many channels on one line.

However, it is conceivable that the receiver/transmitter circuitry is not going to be noiseless and therefore could pickup outside intereference. The transmission ciruitry could potentially pickup a keyfob's frequency and send it out on the transmission stream.

One might think that if the frequency of the fob matched the carrier frequency it could get lumped into the data stream and converted to "digital noise".

It is also possible the reverse could occur on the signal receiver circuitry on the other end.

[wsmylie]

Interesting stuff.... I'm with you though, don't clearly see how it could work with all the limitations and varibles mentioned. Also, don't know why, but I have set-off the "laser/lidar" alert alarm on my radar detector a couple of times with the MM's key fob.:confused:

[Smokie]

Yeah, my thoughts exactly about the microphone - it, and its conversion to digital audio, will only cover a very small portion of the audio spectrum. That's how they can compress the voice to fit so many channels on one line.

However, it is conceivable that the receiver/transmitter circuitry is not going to be noiseless and therefore could pickup outside intereference. The transmission ciruitry could potentially pickup a keyfob's frequency and send it out on the transmission stream.

One might think that if the frequency of the fob matched the carrier frequency it could get lumped into the data stream and converted to "digital noise".

It is also possible the reverse could occur on the signal receiver circuitry on the other end.

Lets hope not, just think of a person talking on a cellular next to an operating microwave oven (they all leak a little bit) it could fry the ear of the person on the other side....:eek: :rofl:

[the_pack_rat]

http://www.snopes.com/autos/techno/keyless.asp

[RF Overlord]

I'm throwing a massive BS flag on this one. :bs: :shake:

RKE fobs work on RF signals, not infrared or audible, therefor they cannot be re-transmitted through a cell phone.

[Breadfan]

I'm throwing a massive BS flag on this one. :bs: :shake:

RKE fobs work on RF signals, not infrared or audible, therefor they cannot be re-transmitted through a cell phone.

RF signals is exactly why it actually could work. But, it'd have to be very close in frequency and the circuitry would have to pick it up as interference and indadvertantly add that to the data stream.

[Breadfan]

http://www.snopes.com/autos/techno/keyless.asp

Thanks that had some of the info I was wondering about. The fobs according to that site typically operate around 300mhz.

Cell phones are usually 800 or 1900mhz

There could still be ways for this to occur, but highly unlikely. Still, if you want, give it a shot!!!

;)

[dwasson]

I could imagine harmonics interfering, if the cell phone was amped up to some level where it could nuke your brain.

I have been to the top of Sandia Crest in NM. Many of Albequerque's TV and Radio stations have their antennas there because it is the highest place around. The key fob remote didn't work there. In talking to one of the workers there, he said that there is so much RF energy around the top of the crest that some cars won't start and they had a lot trouble getting their POS terminals to run.

[RF Overlord]

There could still be ways for this to occur, but highly unlikely.EXTREMELY highly unlikely.

Cell phones don't just inadvertently pick up and "add" spurious signals to their data streams. There is an enormous amount of hand-shaking and error correction that is needed to make cell phone technology practical, and any errant signals would be immediately rejected by the process.

[TripleTransAm]

I could imagine harmonics interfering, if the cell phone was amped up to some level where it could nuke your brain.


We must keep in mind that the cell phone you're holding is going to be RECEIVING the keyfob 'information', so if it had something to do with RF, it would be broadcast from the cell tower. So no need to be close to the car at that point, just be in the same cell as your car.

Furthermore, it would have to be a cellphone to cellphone call to at least consider the possibility of the FOB creating some digital garbage within the 'home' side that would get carried over to your phone and regenerated with enough energy as to be able to trigger your RKE module (perhaps why the phone has to be close to the module). If the 'home' end was a landline phone, there is so much filtering going on, so many hops, and so many coding/recoding steps that I really doubt anything outside the audible band would be intact by the time it got to your phone (ie. analog audio to digital PCM, most likely PCM through the landline network until the cellphone company gateway, then through any other hops until it reaches your radio and then you might even be coded at something other than PCM like EFR or something, etc.etc....)

Now, MAYBE just MAYBE... considering they mentioned holding the phone next to your door... in the same vein as audio devices/amplifiers picking up cellphone control messages through harmonic reverberations (try putting your cell phone next to a radio and have someone call you... keep the volume down, though!), perhaps the transmission of the cell phone's uplink interacts with the electronics of the power lock controllers (or maybe the RKE module itself!) such that it erroneously unlocks itself. I'd see this more a possibility with a cheaper RKE product, where the electronics might be more susceptible to interference and subsequent misbehaviour.

(EDIT: "harmonic reverberations", the 'reverberations' word doesn't sound right here, but I'm at a loss for the word I'm actually looking for... basically having to do with sympathetic resonance... there, maybe I was looking for 'resonance' instead? Whatever... )

To support the above paragraph, I was told back in 1994 when I got my first cellphone to be careful when using it near my GTA's digital dash as there was supposedly a problem with cell phones interacting with digital dashes and causing problems. I was concerned at first, but in the 13 years I've owned that car, I've NEVER EVER had an instance of interference of any kind (the radio issue notwithstanding... I'm sure I've blown at least one woofer thanks to my phone issuing a registration message to the network while I was playing the music loud in the car). So perhaps late 80s digital dashes were better designed to resist interference of a radio frequency kind....

You can always try to get on a cell phone call and slowly move the phone along the keypad area and maybe inside the door panel or near the RKE module (wherever it is on our cars). I suspect the OEM unit will not flinch, but maybe a cheap aftermarket type will go nuts if the cell phone radio frequency is right? While doing this, try to keep rubbing a finger on the cellphone microphone to keep the cell phone transmitter active: some modern phones save battery power by turning off some of the transmission circuitry when the microphone is picking up no sound (annoying when one party is being silent in a conversation - you lose the background "comfort" noise) and some networks support discontinuous transmission (where the cell phone will entirely not transmit if it has nothing to transmit).



they had a lot trouble getting their POS terminals to run.


Maybe if they used good terminals instead of POS's, they'd work better?
;)

[Hotrauder]

It takes a car thief about 7 seconds to open your car door. There is one in every neighborhood. Get him to open the car for you. A car jacker can convince you to open your door in one tenth of that time. However, don't call him. Dennis:beer:

[RCSignals]

you can solve the problem of locking your keys with the remote in the car at the same time, by not using the remote as the fob for your ignition key

But who does that?

[SergntMac]

you can solve the problem of locking your keys with the remote in the car at the same time, by not using the remote as the fob for your ignition key.

But who does that? Me...But in another way. I just punch my access code into the keyless entry pad on the driver's door. But...I have explored this topic too.

Since I have a small "collection" of fobs left over from countless years of ownership of L/M products, I decided to put them to use as redundant systems. Surprisingly, most of them have been very compatable with the Marauder keyless entry system.

Our "Locks and Security" topic starts on page 70 of your MM owner's manual. Follow those instructions, and your fobs seem generic, it's the car's PATS/EEK that controls the teaching. Begin there to learn how to add additional fobs to your system, then shop e-bay for more fobs?

Rather than hide a second key, or, my valet key, I hide an extra fob in an area where I could reach for it without being obvious about reaching. I don't need the fob in hand, just access to it's buttons, so, get some 3M tape and get creative?

[Bluerauder]

No, I don't think so. The inputs of a cell phone are limited to a microphone and a camera if it has one. The microphone will pick up Audible frequencies generated by your voice, the FOB does not emit a frequency that will trigger a response from the mike in the phone, the mike in your cell phone does not pick up frequencies outside the hearing range....hell it doesn't even pick up the entire audible spectrum.

I agree that it won't work for basically the reason you give above.

While this ^^^^ is indeed true, audio frequencies and radio frequencies (RF) are transmitted by different mechanisms. Audio frequencies are in the 3 - 20,000 Hz range; but are transmitted by the physical movement of the atmosphere. This is what the microphone picks up and what our ears need to hear -- movement of the air. Audio frequencies are not part of the Electromagnetic Spectrum. This is why sound cannot be transmitted in or through a vacuum. Not so with RF which we know will travel across the vast reaches of space. So, your basic premise that the Key Fob will not produce a frequency that can be used by the cell phone is correct. The cell phone takes sound, converts it, transmits it in the 850 MHz or the 1850 MHz UHF bands, and reconverts it to sound on the other end. :D Key Fobs operate in the 300-400 MHz frequency range anyway.

Snopes also says No Way for the same reasons >>> http://www.snopes.com/autos/techno/keyless.asp

[Breadfan]

you can solve the problem of locking your keys with the remote in the car at the same time, by not using the remote as the fob for your ignition key

But who does that?
Actually this adds another variable I actually didn't consider. On my test I only used one fob - my friend hit it, I had the phone near the car.

Although this I really don't see as being possible, I suppose yet another variable (as metnioned earler) could be a cheap fob receiving rf interference from the cell phone and actually kicking off an unlock command.

Just another variable here...

:)

[EbonyMarauder03]

I have proved this myth. It, at least, works on the 2005 Explorer.

[Breadfan]

Really? Can I ask what carrier mobile phone? Was the second fob left inside the vehicle? Is there a difference where you hold the phone? Near the door, etc.

Interesting, I need to find some more time to try this out. Just like the Mythbuster even if we disprove it I think we need to build some comm equipment up and mod a cell phone to make it work. ;)

[TripleTransAm]

Just like the Mythbuster even if we disprove it I think we need to build some comm equipment up and mod a cell phone to make it work. ;)


We'll also need to blow it up.

[BigCars4Ever]

I measured my key fob output in the lab this morning. It's pulse code modulation with the carrier frequency at 320MHz and the narrowest pulse was 200us. No way a cell phone could reproduce that.

[magindat]

Well guys, it's time for us Marauder owners to do some Mythbusting. (I like the show on Discovery, so yeah, I'm gonna steal the name.)

Last night I was working late, and listening to my XM Online service. I was hitting up some comedy talk radio from Opie and Anthony and they have promos during their breaks.

One promo for a car show on XM, talked about a trick for unlocking your car doors if you leave the keys locked inside. Some of you may have already heard of this trick.

Apparnetly you can call home, and have someone pick up your spare key fob. If you hold your mobile phone about 1 foot from your door and they press the unlock button, the signal will get transmitted over the phone and come out at your end, thus unlocking the door.

I personally find this highly unlikely. Preliminary tests this morning show it not working for me. Before I even tried though, I thought about the variables, what would have to work, and what could make it all NOT work.

So for this to work I had to think about how it could be possible.

An infra-red remote control emits it's signals on the infrared band. Sometimes radio antannaes on certain channels (AM often) will pickup the "sound" from the ir transmission. Although the key-fobs are rf (radio frequency) it's conceivable the same could occur, the "sound" of the signal could be picked up by the phone and transmit that way. But this is highly unlikely, and anyway, how would it transfer back from a sound to rf on the other end.

Depending on the frequencies at use here, it's also conceivable that the signal from the fob could be picked up on the carrier wave for the mobile phone. It would then be converted to data on the network, and finally retransmitted to the destination phone as RF again. To me, this is the most possible way this could occur.

That being said, the signal would be coming in, so proximity of the phone to the car might not have that much of an impact right? Technically the RF would be transmitted from the cell tower, your phone at this stage is just a listener for these RF signals...right?

Finally, the notion that you hold the phone near the door makes no sense. The receiver for the rf signals is not near the door handle or mechanical lock. It's probably held under the hood, or under the dashboard. So holding it near the door does nothing to move the signal closer to the receiver.

For a mobile phone to do this also, you must consider a few other points, and answering these will help us understand if this is even possible:

- What frequency does the key fob operate at

- What frequency does each phone work at

- Where is the receiver for the keyless entry system

- Would the transmission have to be from mobile to moble? Or could the person on the other end have a corded land line?

I do know this - if I leave my blackberry near a phone, I can hear the signals coming into it at times. Many times I'll hear noise interferences caused by the phone receiving and transmitting data to sync up. The question at hand, will I hear the rf interference on only receiving signals. (I don't think so, only on transmitting I believe.)

Today I did test it with a friend in the morning. It didn't work. We both have T-Mobile phones and used them to do the test. They operate on TMobiles GPRS system for data. I can switch them to GMS but didn't try that.

A few tests with other phone brands and technologies should cover the available cell phone frequency bands.

Knowing what the key fob operates at (or near) would also help.

Personally I don't see HOW this could ever work across vehicle makes unless the FCC makes all keyfobs operate in a very small bit of wavelength. Between differences there and differences in frequencies used by cell carriers it's hard to believe this would work all the time.

Personally I think i'ts highly improbably it'd work at all - it didn't for me on my first test anyway.

So, if you want, give it a shot. Let us know how you did the test. Make sure your key fob isn't close enough in range to work too before doing the test. :)

It'd be cool to see it work - I can see reasons why it could be theoretically possible, but really with the way the communications work it's highly improbably without some modifications.

So...mythbust away. :)

Having been in IT and communications for over a dozen years now, I have seen this about a million times. Our IT staff (of 18) got together with work issued and personal phones and several brands of cars and a couple after-market alarm systems.
Brands included:
Nextel, nokia, etc
Toyota, Nissan, Chevy, TRC, UNGO.

No permutation or combination of phones/cars/remotes worked at all.

We busted this one about 2 years ago in similar style to the MythBusters!

[Dan]

I have read every post in this thread and spend at LEAST two minutes researching the matter.

That being said, I have come to the irrefutable conclusion that nothing useful will ever come from this thread. :lol:

Best,

Dan

[Breadfan]

We'll also need to blow it up.

I agree!!! ;)

Just not too close to the MM!!

[Breadfan]

I have read every post in this thread and spend at LEAST two minutes researching the matter.

That being said, I have come to the irrefutable conclusion that nothing useful will ever come from this thread. :lol:

Best,

Dan

See my above post, maybe a cool vid could come of it. :banana2:

[merc406]

You guys have waaaay to many moving parts on your cars, trade it in now and buy a 60's model Marauder.............:burnout:

[DPVLN]

This works on both my MM and my Excursion. Equipment used is a verizon cell phone and a Uniden cordless home phone. I dont know anything about modulation and so forth but it worked!

[Breadfan]

This works on both my MM and my Excursion. Equipment used is a verizon cell phone and a Uniden cordless home phone. I dont know anything about modulation and so forth but it worked!

Thanks! These two positive results make this sound like it's worth looking into further.

[magindat]

This works on both my MM and my Excursion. Equipment used is a verizon cell phone and a Uniden cordless home phone. I dont know anything about modulation and so forth but it worked!

Methinks it was close enough to trigger anyways. Drive far, far away.

[Krytin]

I agree - both my remotes work on the cars in the driveway from inside the house.

[Breadfan]

Yeah if testing this you must verify that it's not working without the phones on first. :)

[blackf0rk]

This all got me thinking and tried an experiment of my own...

At one end of a landline phone I placed it near a TV, and then on the other end I had a person rub the phone on something...in this experiment it was an orange. Guess what happened? ...nothing happened.

I'll get back to you when I figure out why this didn't work.

[Bluerauder]

I'll get back to you when I figure out why this didn't work.
No one starts with the orange first !! :rolleyes: Normal procedure calls for starting with the banana and then progressing to the apple. :rofl:

[DPVLN]

Yeah if testing this you must verify that it's not working without the phones on first. :)

I did test the remote from several places on my property. I went clicky clicky but the MM did not respond. I assumed I was far enough away, but perhaps I was not. Maybe the phone just boosted the signal or something. I will retest and try again and note all parameters.

[jawz101]

I guess this is why I like keyless entry. That, or a screwdriver, towel and a 3/8' wrench has got me into a few cars. All legitimate reasons of course.

[Blackened300a]

At one end of a landline phone I placed it near a TV, and then on the other end I had a person rub the phone on something...in this experiment it was an orange. .

Were you playing, "Guess whats in my Fruit Basket?"

[ahess77]

This sounds silly but it works, please try it with your mythbusting design-of-experiement. When I worked at Lear Corp. we made key FOBs for Ford and others (plant is in Tampa, FL). I spent some time with one of the RF engineers who was sent to trouble shoot all the RFI/EMI interference issues. What he had found (and measured) is that by creating a loop in your body you can extend the range of your transmitter.

So, if you touch your FOB to your chin while you press the button you've made a loop antenna with your arm-torso-neck-chin and you have increased range.

Try it. Compare that to holding the FOB way above your head and see which has better range.

[magindat]

This sounds silly but it works, please try it with your mythbusting design-of-experiement. When I worked at Lear Corp. we made key FOBs for Ford and others (plant is in Tampa, FL). I spent some time with one of the RF engineers who was sent to trouble shoot all the RFI/EMI interference issues. What he had found (and measured) is that by creating a loop in your body you can extend the range of your transmitter.

So, if you touch your FOB to your chin while you press the button you've made a loop antenna with your arm-torso-neck-chin and you have increased range.

Try it. Compare that to holding the FOB way above your head and see which has better range.

I concur with real-world experience. This works better if you hold your mouth open in an 'O' shape. (really).
Further, holding the fob perpendicular to and touching the center of your sternum seems to make a great 'parabolic' and extends range.

[O's Fan Rich]

I concur with real-world experience. This works better if you hold your mouth open in an 'O' shape. (really).
Further, holding the fob perpendicular to and touching the center of your sternum seems to make a great 'parabolic' and extends range.

I have found that through the application of proper sphincter pressure, I can actually prevent the escape of noxious gassious material.
Often though this results in a build up of pressure, which over time, results in a condition know as excessive flautulant fatigue. The results are often humorus, yet not often appreciated.

[Rider90]

I have found that through the application of proper sphincter pressure, I can actually prevent the escape of noxious gassious material.
Often though this results in a build up of pressure, which over time, results in a condition know as excessive flautulant fatigue. The results are often humorus, yet not often appreciated.
This is new to me, I shall try it this afternoon. Maybe people can sit by Rider90 after all...

[TripleTransAm]

So, if you touch your FOB to your chin while you press the button you've made a loop antenna with your arm-torso-neck-chin and you have increased range.

I'll add a "me too" here. This does work, and might actually contribute to this myth to some extent. Holding the fob up to the phone puts it into the above kind of scenario, and this might actually help extend the range far enough to fool the cell-phone holder into thinking the approach worked (of course, we're not talking miles here, but it could mean the difference between being able to open the doors or not on someone's property). I've still got the factory batteries in my 1998 Trans Am's fobs and while one is getting weak, the range is helped greatly by this technique.

My brother's Honda Accord's remote starter (no idea what the brand is) can pick up his FOB's signal from what seems like a quarter mile away, while he's inside a building. His office overlooks the parking lot and you can barely spot his headlights flick on confirming the successful start. No way my 1998 Trans Am's factory RKE could pull that off, chin or no chin. (we're hesitant to try the "chin" experiment on my brother's fob, fearing the possibility of bringing down aircraft preparing to land at the nearby airport or possibly leaving an X-ray-like imprint on the ceiling at the office! ;) )

[Breadfan]

Interesting, interesting. I'll try those out. :)

For what it's worth, that guy on XM who has the car show said he tried it on air going acrossa a few states and it worked. But just b/c it's on the radio doesn't mean it's real...

[Dan]

Hmm. Next thing you know someone will be putting his key fob near his groin area to improve reception.

I can see it happening in a parking lot in front of a toy store now...

"Mommy, mommy. What is that man doing to the key with his pee-pee?"
Mom, "I don't know, Johnny, but I'm dialing 911 to find out right now!'