Legality of Parts Installed

[V10_P70]

Was wondering with all of the modifications being applied to the Mercury Marauder, where are the EPA and CARB certifications for the parts being installed. Are these modifications legal or not?

The fine for having non-legal parts on your car can be more expensive than the car itself.

[V10_P70]

It seems that the passion for the Mercury Marauder is quite intense. But, it seems that when a problem occurs with the car, the response is that full coverage of the problem is demanded from FMC.

Are you aware of the 10,000 mile quick engine durablity test that is done to verify that the engine can go 100k without problems.

What tests where performed to validate the bolt on modifications do not present problems to the factory build?
Is the street the durablity test?
Where are the FTP 75's to validate emissions output?

[WolfeBros]

Since I am not sure where you are coming from, or where you are going with it, or even why, I will answer carefully by saying that it is my educated belief that none of the mods I have made to my car would upset any federal or state agency.

I hope others on here respond in kind.


After thinking abit more.........I hope that they do not respond at all. Have a good evening sir and thanks for stopping by. :rolleyes:

[Blue Marauder]

Seems to me that V10_P70 raises a valid point. None of the supporting vendors to this site make any reference to CARB E.O. numbers for their chips, superchargers, etc. This would lead one to believe that these mods would be illegal in California but would still be 49 state legal. It would be interesting to know what issues this raises for the California members. Even though I don't live in California, I would never put a part on one of my vehicles that did not have an E.O. number on it. The number implies that at least the part has gone through testing to certify that it will not impact the vehicles emissions performance. This may be important in other states that do both visual and tailpipe emissions checks and may even help an owner in a warranty fight with Ford.

[SergntMac]

Hmm...I thought for sure this thread would have become a spirited debate...Informative. May as well type something, I'm stuck at work with nothing else to do.


Originally posted by WolfeBros
Since I am not sure where you are coming from, or where you are going with it, or even why, I will answer carefully by saying that it is my educated belief that none of the mods I have made to my car would upset any federal or state agency. I hope others on here respond in kind.

OTOH, when you say that a particular accessory does not have a CARB number, all you are saying is that it is not certified for use in CA. You must mean this as neutral statement, yes? Simply said, accessory has not been tested, and is not approved for use in CA until it is.

This does not mean that the accessory is sub-standard in any way, and the declaration should not said in a way that implies that the accessory would not pass inspection if submitted. With respect to the specific accessories commonly discussed here, I do not expect any of them to fail a CARB requirements. In fact, their performance is most likely so superior to CARB requirements, their rating would be off the top of the charts.

I think that we should remember that any "government standard" is a negative scale that rules out sub-standard products by imposing a minimum expectation of performance. Think about it, remember your very first driving test? You didn't have to show how good of a driver your were at that time, all you had to do, was meet a minimum performance standard. Most often when I hear a product, or a person's skills has met a particular government standard, it's usually t defense lawyer in his closing argument on a product/personal liability case.

If a manfacturer wants to market his automotive accessories in CA, he must submit to testing and be approved. I don't know what the exact process, but I'll presujme it means turining over a sample product for examination, or, at the very least, plans or blueprints of same.

This could be a very serious point to the manfacturer, may even persuade him to avoid the CA market altogether in order to protect his design. The testing process may be time consuming, requiring a long term test of some sort. It may be a financial hardship on the manfacturer, who is trying to balance his production budget and recover R&D dollars without pricing himself out of a competitive market. My point is, is that he decision lies with the manfacturer, and there are many things to consider. Weigh them against the expectation of capturing part of an unknown customer base in only 1 out of 50 states, and the decision to submit to testing seems an easy one to me.

Does a manfacturer have to submit his product for testing? No, certaintly not, and it would unfair for anyone to paint the illusion that such a decision is in any way a sign of an inferior product.

Moral of the story? The tail does not wag the dog. If someone wants it bad enough, they'll buy gray market, or, move.

[Sean]

Emmissions-:flamer: -Me

Forget emissions and legality! Put a v10 in, take off the cats, and supercharge it, while removing EGR and PCV!

Who cares :rolleyes: No one but tree-hugging liberals cares about that kind of stuff!

We're here for the cars. Not to save the seagulls, otters, and lets not forget rabbits...oh hell lets save the cocroaches also! :D

[Paul T. Casey]

Better question may be if it is illegal, why have we LET PAC's and other special interest groups erode our rights to the pursuit of happiness? Cars burn so clean nowadays you can almost run them inside!! Seems to me, if you can still pass the smog sniffer, it should be legit!

[Sean]

That is true... a friend of mine passed emmissions tests without cats on his 1998 CVPI.

[prchrman]

Sean...quote: Who cares No one but tree-hugging liberals cares about that kind of stuff!

Well there goes your invite to the Greenpeace Convention...:flamer:

[Sean]

awww.... damn! http://www.crownvic.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evil.gif

[jefferson-mo]

Sean...Who Cares? We do! We have to! we don't get a choice.

when you go for a smog inspection(you have to--no choice) the first thing they do is check under the car for cats...then check to see that your gas cap and filler neck are in good working order...

then they look under the hood for ANY modification......


THEN they hook the car up and run tests...............

Out here, more so in LA than San Diego there's still an issue with clean air(I love to breath clean air), mostly because out here cars don't rust away after 2 or 3 years. We've still got the '75 Dodge vans that barely run but somehow still managed to get re-registered anyway.

We've only recently got the change so now we don't have to smog '73 and older cars but the State is trying to take that back(they underestimated how many older cars are still running).

So 'take off the cats' 'remove the EGR' 'remove PCV(which you do need)' not possible

Forget emissions and legality? Not even close.....that's what We have to think about FIRST.................

[Sean]

How many people support excessive emmissions restrictions on cars that are modified? Do i hear any BAAAAHS from the voting sheep? Seems to me you could get a waiver for having a "hot rod" status car, based on something like quarter mile times?

(let me edit that: i think there should be legislation in place that suports this)

[Paul T. Casey]

Could replace dirty electrical generation from coal and oil with clean safe Nuclear! Also alcohol fueled motor vehicles. Net result would not only clean up air, but drive down price of petroleum products.

[MAD-3R]

I have only one thing to say about "Global Warming"

BEACH PARTY!!!

[jefferson-mo]

as far as 'exemptions for Hot Rods....not gonna happen....just not possible........about the only thing close is "Historical Vehicle' plates and then it still has to be valuable or collectable and then the driving restrictions(to and from car shows and repair facilities only) make that not worthwhile..........

the big problem out here is the big oil companies needing 'emissions credits' so they've got the big lawyers and lobbyists and we as hobbyists do not have enough orginization and lobbying power to beat 'em so they get they're way in the state legislature.......you've heard of crusher programs? that's big oil 'buying' they're way so they're gas refinieries don't have to have 'catalytic converters' on the smokestacks........

Paul as far as electicity generation..we don't have coal and oil plants, ours is mostly hydroelectric and minor nuclear plants

[Dave Compson]

And for the above reason, thats one of the many reasons i moved from the republic of california. I still have family in San Diego, and i love the scenery. But, I hate the stupid rules. No common sence, and i like clean air also. But there should be some fair rules. The DMV nazi's are out of control in CA. I moved to nevada to i could still own a real gun, and the lawmakers are not completly out of control here.

Although vegas is becoming a suburb of L.A. now...

ok ok im getting off of my soapbox.

[jefferson-mo]

:up:

[LincMercLover]

Prime example, my 1979 Lincoln runs without CATS. I ffigure, the world's already screwed anyway, might as well screw it up right, THE AMERICAN WAY! :up: :lol:

[ChuckB]

To those of us living in Ca. the smog laws and tests are real, however moronic and non sensical and we have to deal with them each 2 years to register our cars.

In the old days an after hours visit and $100 would smog a donkey. Now with the SMOG2 regulation the technician gets to pay $50K and go to jail if he gets caught doing that. It's very difficult to get around these restrictions now.

this makes it particularly difficult for us hot rod enthusiasts. The CARB (california air research board) E.O. # is a precious thing. It applies a great burden to the part manufacturers both in terms of time and actual costs to obtain. This even shrinks the limited base of aftermarket parts (legally in Ca.) for the MM more.

It's to the point that every 2 years guys do a motor swap or have to remove all the "goodies" they have installed.

i understand the Feds have taken a liking to this program and the air quality improvements. And the plans are underway to "encourage" states to adopt simular activities. If i'm not mistaken MA currently has these also. (maybe someone in MA can confirm or deny). Watch for these carefully in yours states legislation.

[Sean]

we cant fight it though! these guys pay big $$$money$$$ to see our freedoms taken away because of their special interests. we spend all our money on cars... *insert sad face here*

I hate CARB even though im in Virginia.

[MAD-3R]

Where in VA are ya Sean?

[Sean]

I81+I77 Junction Southwest VA

[MAD-3R]

Ahh ok. I just passed that way a couple of weekends ago. Atleast your out of the Real Commie area. Fairfax County....

[Sean]

hhaha... Ill be headed up that way here in about 2 weeks, towing the v10 vic up to somewhere to get it ready for the St. Thomas auto plant car meet...(where they make all Crown vics, marauders, marquis's) Its going to be crazy! i think attendance is like 80 ppl so far! Hmm... http://www.crownvic.net/agency/sat3.jpg

The cops think im a police impersonator...uhh...takes alot to figure out my plate doesnt it! They have pulled me out of restaraunts before to ask me what the single antenna on the back of the car is for. (im the only person in the county with a newer CVPI) .... morons .. hhahahaha.... Yeah read the tag... rofl....

[DLoreanMARAUDER]

Good luck with the engine Swap. did you ever hear of the CVPI that had a V10 swap, but ran on liqiud nitrogen? wierd stuff. I assum you are going to run off gasoline! anyway thats gonna kick A$$! be sure to post some 0-60 and 1/4 mile results!

Edit: COOL PLATES :up:

[RCSignals]

If there is a set standard for emissions, and a vehicle passes them, it really shouldn't matter what parts on the vehicle.
Bureaucrats Will never get that though

[Sean]

Good post RC Signals.

I think you mean liquid PROPANE Dlorean. hehe *wink* You should PM v10 P70 he knows a little about that car.

Wicked cars BTW!

[MAD-3R]

Where are you having the work done at?

[DLoreanMARAUDER]

oh yea propane, my bad. One of the cops I work with showed the article to me (BRIEFLY). I thought it was pretty cool.

[Sean]

Im doing the work myself, but im going to a design shop/machine shop/fabrication shop that a friend works for. We will be spending some time building the cars.... into something insane. Oh did i say cars? :cool: i mean car. *wink*

[Sean]

The only thing is... the dang engine controls- here is what i need- a v10 pcm reflash
for:

Rear o2 delete
PATS delete
Speed limiter delete
5800 Rev limit
EGR Delete
advanced timing for 93 fuel


any way around pats?