Zack and Mac Control Arms

[SergntMac]

This is poll to see if there is any interest in a second production run the famous Zack and Mac control arms. Our first run two years ago put 50 sets on the street, and we had half as many members back then. When I see all the activity generated by our new members enjoying a "second helping" of the Marauder, can't help wondering if there is any more interest.

What: Upper and lower rear control arms, tubular 1018 mild steel, .125 wall. Powdercoated black, uses your OEM bushings and mounting hardware.

Here's a pic of the prototypes still on my MM. They are over two years old now, and I never powdercoated them. But, the pic gives you an idea of where they go and how they fit. I'll have more pics in my gallery later.

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showcase/showimage.php?i=975&c=3&userid=392

I'm sure there will be some questions, and I hope some of our customers check in with their own experience. Just so y'all know, there have been no changes in design the second run (if it happens) will be identical to the first.

How Much: Actually, we don't know right now, that's why this poll is up. Two years ago, they were a steal at 395.00 a set. But, the cost of steel and labor has gone up, and we estimate that if we can get 25 orders, the price may come in at 475. Right now, we're just counting hands, and in typical group buy language, "the more in on it, the cheaper things get".

[jimlam56]

Sir, I would like your thoughts on what the advantages are to these control arms as opposed to the Metco arms some members are using. The price seems to be close between the two styles.
Thanks, Jim

[SergntMac]

The Metco control arms are an excellent product, I like them very much. But, they followed our first production run. We were just about sold out when the Metcos arrived on the scene, and the problem we're going to run into here, is that what good stuff I say about the Z&M arms, others will say I am critical of Metoco products, and they are also a vendor here.

I am not, but it just so happens that both CAs function very similar, and performance is likewise about equal. About, and you can't sell anything without making comparasions.

Zack and I were the first to produce a control arm of any design for the Marauder. This is a high quality control arm designed by profession race car chasis builder, Mike Lopez. Many of you senior members have met Mike, we use his shop for our dyno tune days. We spent several months in research, development and testing this product, and we are proud to offer the finest control arm available for the Marauder/Crown Vic. Hell, I like 'em so much, I still have the prototypes on my #1x! Here are some other benefits, and again, I'm not slamming Metco.

OEM bushing is supported laterally across the bushing, not just in the center
No squeaking from dry suspension components, no need to grease.
No wheel hop from inflexible suspension and grippy tires.
No corrosion, but rust is a factor. Don't worry though, the rest of the car will be long gone before .125 wall steel gives in to rust.
Almost impossible to detect in casual observation
Road hugging stability for the rear end reduces wear and tear on the Watts links, and the air suspension system as well.
You could probably double your cornering speeds, and safely too.

This is about enough for now. I hope some first edition owners speak up.

[jimlam56]

Thanks for the reply.
Count me in, if you decide on the production run.

[Blackened300a]

Well Mac you sold me. When you have the product avaliable. Please let me know so I do not miss out on this.

[MM03MOK]

My first experience with the ZMCAs was in May, 2004, driving the KB 1.x during our visit to Barry & Jess' in Cleveland. I was instructed not to slow down on the 270 degree highway off-ramp and had to be reminded from a back-seat-driver NOT to use the brake. I followed instructions, held on tight and took that off-ramp at a speed I was not used to. I can still remember how it felt and my ensuing giddiness! She remained flat and smooth, no pull or lean. She just floated around the curves. That's all it took to sell me on the advantages of this mod.

The ZMCAs have been on for over a year and a half now - not one squeak and miles of pleasure. I so look forward to every rotary I see, since most of my off-ramps around here are fairly straight! Man, what a ride!

Ever notice my signature? I don't brake for curves! :D

[JMan]

Mac,
Without searching, I seem to recall a mention from someone about altered pinion angle. While a slightly negative pinion angle would be ideal for drag racing, I would not wish it on my daily driver.

Q:
Will they be available in standard offset and altered offset?

Q2:
Will they be available possibly un-finished (Raw steel.)?

Thanks in advance and pardon me if I'm mistaken!

J

[HwyCruiser]

I've had the Z&M control arms on my Marauder for nearly two years now and they've held up exceptionally. I have zero wheel hop from a launch (even with drag radials) and the rearend stays right where it should be while taking a corner. I've been 100% satisfied with the performance of the combination of the Z&M control arms and beefier Addco rear anti-sway bar on the street, short course, and the track.

The OEM control arms have a tendency to want to flex and walk around on the bushings, especially after the stock stamped steel jobs start to show their age. One hell of a bang for the buck for increased performance while retaining a luxury ride. There are a lot of us out here that have been enjoying the performance of these beauties for awhile now. I can't recall hearing of one negative comment from anyone who has ever bolted them on and had a chance to experience the improved performance for themselves.

Good luck on the second run guys! Have you looked into a source for new OEM bushings since a lot of the Marauders out now have had some time to rack up some miles?

[martyo]

Zack and I were the first to produce a control arm of any design for the Marauder.

Well, technically, this is not true. Ford was the first one.

Small Mac, I am making a joke. :D

[Jessica]

Are we saying it's been TOO quiet here lately?

[CRUZTAKER]

Well...well...

This is a nice revisit. :up:

What a ruckus at the tail end of the last run. Folks fighting and all...returning the product in favor of the Metco...selling what they had....

Thank goodness that's out of our system!

I must say that I am very happy with mine, and have been for nearly 27,000 miles. The look is very unique as well.
I have always favored circles over rectangles...:P

I powdercoated mine red to match my calipers.
Unfortunately I cannot find the pics.:depress:

[rayjay]

I'll show my ingnorance here. Can someone please explain what the control arms do vs what the sway bars do? I'm used to independant suspension vs live axle.

[jimlam56]

I'll show my ingnorance here. Can someone please explain what the control arms do vs what the sway bars do? I'm used to independant suspension vs live axle.
You have control arms and sway bars.
These are just beefier, and generate a more taut suspension response
I'll leave the more technical responses to others...

[BruteForce]

I originally purchased Z&M arms and was very... no... EXTREMELY satisfied with them The only reason I sold them in favor of a set of brand X arms was to have them match my new watts link (merely a cosmetic choice... that and $ burning a hole in my pocket). I can vouch for their effectiveness in taming the barge-like handling of the OEM parts.

[Mikeenh]

ZERO complaints on my Z&M control arms. They did a fantastic job on them.

[Rider90]

I would be if I had not already ordered the Metco arms, good luck Mac & Zack!

[teamrope]

Well...well...

This is a nice revisit. :up:

What a ruckus at the tail end of the last run. Folks fighting and all...returning the product in favor of the Metco...selling what they had....

Thank goodness that's out of our system!

I must say that I am very happy with mine, and have been for nearly 27,000 miles. The look is very unique as well.
I have always favored circles over rectangles...:P

I powdercoated mine red to match my calipers.
Unfortunately I cannot find the pics.:depress:

Between My 03 and Mrs TR's 04 MM we have about 60K on the Z&M control arms.

No issues with any of the rear end componants due to the pinion angle.
Have no regrets about choosing them and the performance improvement in cornering is noticeable.

If I had another MM I'de choose them again.

[valleyman]

What Teamrope ^^^^ said. About two years on mine and 30K miles. No squeaks. Installed myself, easy to do. Would do it again in a heartbeat. :bandit:

[MarauderMark]

One of the best mods i ever got and i'll tell ya get em while you can.:up:
Maybe on these sets you guys may wanna put some kind of advertising on them so when you look threw the wheels is can be seen.

[GordonB]

I second the remarks of teamrope -- I have the Z&Ms on BOTH our MMs plus the ADDCO rear sway bar and this is wonderful.

About the difference in the 2 MMs:
03 Blue MM has the ORIG. M&Zs
04 DTR MM has the Modified (1/4") M&Zs
I cannot tell the difference and neither could the LM Tech who did the install! AND they LOOK STOCK!!!!!

Net, net, I heartily recommend these control arms to all MMers here!:beer:

[jabird56]

Have had Z&M CAs on my MM for a while now. It was like night and day between them and the EOM thingies that by design, tended to flex a little....BAD JUJU spension performance.. With thiese Z&M arms, ADDCO sway bar, and KDW2s this thing goes around corners (i.e. off ramp jug handles) like flies on fly paper.....

[jaywish]

Hi Mack & All,

I was fortunate to buy a set. I have no problems at all. :up:

Jay

[SergntMac]

First...There's a bundle of new pics in my gallery, please look them over?
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showcase/showimage.php?i=1825&c=3&userid=392

Secondly, thank you all for your support and kind words, and yes, Marty, I chuckled. You will never change. Finally, thank you JMan for your questions.
Mac,
Without searching, I seem to recall a mention from someone about altered pinion angle. While a slightly negative pinion angle would be ideal for drag racing, I would not wish it on my daily driver.

Q:
Will they be available in standard offset and altered offset?

Q2:
Will they be available possibly un-finished (Raw steel.)?

Thanks in advance and pardon me if I'm mistaken! J

This is just an exploration into possibilities right now, because I cannot negotiate options with the supplier without having some kind of sales target in hand. Right now, all he has said is "we can work on it".

Recalling what was available in the first edition, yes, both stock and enhanced CAs will be available. However, let me add that the enhanced CA was not solely for the purpose of drag racing as it was suggested back then. Our CAs accomplished several corrections and improvements to the rear suspension, that other systems such as the air suspension, and Watts links were relieved of unnecessary stressing and flexing. I have the original prototypes with the pinion enhancement on my #1x, and stock OEM CAs on my #3 car, which car do you think has the overworked air compressor that comes on after every on-off ramp or hard braking event in rush hour traffic?

Likewise, relieving the Watts link of it's sole purpose of centering the rear end, has greatly extended it's life span. Back during the first edition, folks were asking for a matching Watts link, and we were working on that after the CAs sold out. I'm still reserved on this topic because there won't be any performance improvement with tubular steel links, but if y'all want 'em, we'll ask again. More on this as things progress?

Recalling what was available in the first edition, yes, the CAs can be ordered "bare", but I want you to think about that. When ordered bare, dimensions change, and you'll be the last in line if there is a line. The cost will not change, because the time saved by not powdercoating at the build, is time spent recalculating and adjusting welding jigs, as I am told dimensions change when no powdercoating is present. All I can add here, is this is what I was told last time. It didn't save us any money, so, all orders were powdercoated gloss black, as you can see in the pics. If you want another color, we may be able to work that out without an extra charge. Sorry, it's too early to say yes, or, no on this, I'm just looking back on history.

HwyCruiser asks a good question too. In the first edition, most of us had very young MMs, with relatively fresh suspension bits in place, and most of us reused our OEM bushings. As I recall it, the only source for fresh bushings back then, was to order another set of OEM CAs, which added about 100 bucks to the mod. Again, I don't have another answer at hand, and I'll look into this as we progress. Thanks, HC!

That's all for now, thanks for taking the poll.

[Big Joe P]

I took a test drive in Zack's car equipped with the CA's at one of the "chicken runs" Then I took MY car along the same path. That was all I needed to do. I purchased and installed them. The difference is like night and day. I'll say it like this, in a curve when you feel like you have to slow down, now you feel like you have to speed up.... 100% satisfied after 15,000+ miles.

[JMan]

Mac,
Thanks for the reply. I didn't contemplate that the bushing bosses would be powdercoated also. That would certainly change the geometry of the build. I am also of the belief that the Watts link is fine as it is. In fact, the addition of the link allowed them to cheapen the control arms on the Panthers to the point they are now.

Undoubtedly an awesome upgrade for the daily driver or the serious racer. Thank you for answering my questions and being so forthright in your posts. I appreciate it greatly!

Thanks again,

J

[KillJoy]

I would be interested, but cost is a consideration (baby on the way).

KillJoy

[jawz101]

I powdercoated mine red to match my calipers.
Unfortunately I cannot find the pics.:depress:

I believe this belongs to you perhaps? (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showcase/files/6/2/7/BUSHING2Large.jpg)

[jawz101]

I'll show my ingnorance here. Can someone please explain what the control arms do vs what the sway bars do? I'm used to independant suspension vs live axle.
Can someone comment on this?

Personally I did both mods one day after the other(1st being the ctrl arms), so I can't comment too much on the effects. I can't honestly tell if it's extremely noticeable to do both but the control arms seem to offer more than a beefier sway bar. When I look at what I changed-the control arms are significantly different over stock compared to the change in sway bar over its OEM counterpart.

Everything I have read indicates they would both help in body lean(the ctrl arms would simply because the OEM's look like you could bend one with your hands if it was in a vise and the bushing thickness seems countered by the rest of the OEM arm's thin stamped metal)

The ctrl arms are noted to possibly improve launch and control vertical movement as well.

[SergntMac]

Can someone comment on this?

Personally I did both mods one day after the other(1st being the ctrl arms), so I can't comment too much on the effects. I can't honestly tell if it's extremely noticeable to do both but the control arms seem to offer more than a beefier sway bar. When I look at what I changed-the control arms are significantly different over stock compared to the change in sway bar over its OEM counterpart.

Everything I have read indicates they would both help in body lean(the ctrl arms would simply because the OEM's look like you could bend one with your hands if it was in a vise and the bushing thickness seems countered by the rest of the OEM arm's thin stamped metal)

The ctrl arms are noted to possibly improve launch and control vertical movement as well. You are correct on all points...'Cept the vise...

[Haggis]

I have had the Mac & Zack C/A on now for almost 2yrs now. They really tightened up the suspension on the car, I can take off ramps that are posted at 45 at 75+ now without using the brakes. I was waiting for M & Z to make a Watts link for the car, but it never materialized so I went ahead and purchase the Metco watts link and the combination is unbelievable. Go with the M & Z you won't regret it.

[Dragcity]

After reading all this, I suppose I am a prospective buyer as well.

Anybody wanna buy a '94 Jaguar ? I'll need the $$ for my Marauder upgrades !! It's got a V 12 and zero body roll.... Anyone ????

[Marauderman]

I ,too, have had the M and Z arms for about year and half and they have produce the feeling that has been stated here already over and over---No problems as yet and love the fact knowing "they" are there when needed on curves...

If you don't have these upgrades-then you owe it to yourself and your MM to drive one with it and then decide----will it be visable or not----my opinion...and since it gets dirty there alot--I'd rather not have to clean them too , so I went with M and Z-- -to each his own as they say...

[magindat]

F As I recall it, the only source for fresh bushings back then, was to order another set of OEM CAs, which added about 100 bucks to the mod. Again, I don't have another answer at hand, and I'll look into this as we progress. Thanks, HC!


Mac,
Control arms are on my list, so I guess I should answer I'd like 'in'.
I would like to understand the whole pinion angle issue as it compares to stock. I understand what +/- pinion angle will do, but I don't understand how you mean our cars are not aligned to begin with (though it would be no surprise). Can you point me to an earlier post or PM me for an explanation?

Bushings: I had great success by calling Energy Suspension for a project last year. I fabricated trailing arms for a project and needed to buy bushings by size measurements. I called them and gave the dimensions. They looked them up and found a matching application. It turned out that my 2003 Dodge Caravan (which I lowered 7 inches) is using 69 'Cuda bushings in the custom trailing arms! Once Energy Suspension gave me the kit #, I ordered from Summit. I had to order the whole kit with forward leaf spring bushings (what I needed) as well as the shackle bushings as a kit. The whole thing only cost me $35 or so. Maybe try this route? We could end up with upgraded poly bushings and would have a part number for furture replacements, stock or otherwise.... FWIW. BTW, if you PM me the dims, I'll make the calls.

If anyone cares, see the van here (DUW) word doc.

www.magindat.net/caravan.doc (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/www.magindat.net/caravan.doc)

[Zack]

. Maybe try this route? We could end up with upgraded poly bushings and would have a part number for furture replacements, stock or otherwise.... FWIW.

Our arms use stock bushings for a reason.
That is why they work so well.

[magindat]

Our arms use stock bushings for a reason.
That is why they work so well.

What is that reason?

(Not a challenge, a point of information.)

[Zack]

What is that reason?

(Not a challenge, a point of information.)

2 reasons.

1- The ride. Its a luxury car with balls. We wanted to maintain the big car feel of the road. Smooth over bumps but tight in the corners. Poly bushings make the ride harsh. The suspension is stiff enough as it is.

2- Poly bushings combined with a 4400lb car will make the suspension solid, too solid for good launches. The stock bushings in our arms provide just the right amount of stiffness, and give, the suspension needs for optimal traction.

[GordonB]

Zack,
I could not have said it better myself! Poly is NOT everything. I once knew someone who used SOLID ALUM Body Mounts in a '64 Corvette! Can you imagine how that car must have ridden?
EVERYONE: The STOCK bushings for the rear control arms are a MUST IMHO! The bushings are FINE, just need to replace the Stock Control arms!!!!
GordonB

[magindat]

2 reasons.

1- The ride. Its a luxury car with balls. We wanted to maintain the big car feel of the road. Smooth over bumps but tight in the corners. Poly bushings make the ride harsh. The suspension is stiff enough as it is.

2- Poly bushings combined with a 4400lb car will make the suspension solid, too solid for good launches. The stock bushings in our arms provide just the right amount of stiffness, and give, the suspension needs for optimal traction.

Gotcha. I guess as small as those bushings are, they are better off rubber. Thanks 4 the explanation. That also explains why I see such large bushings in the pics of the PHP's and Metco's.

Thanx for the explanation.

[AzMarauder]

I would be interested...

[SergntMac]

Group buy is on. This can be done.

Went to see the designer/builder yesterday, and showed him the results of this poll. He's agreed to a GB, with his conditions. Without further delay, here's the scoop...

1) One full set of CAs is two upper and two lower arms.
2) Minumum order of ten sets will net us a GB cost of 450.00 per set.
3) 450.00 includes powdercoating and shipping.
4) If interests climbs, more orders can be added once the minimum is met, however, the GB price will expire 30 days after first order of ten is placed and shipping begins. Orders after that date will require another GB of ten.
5) Gloss black powdercoating only. No bare arms, no options on color.
6) Stock OEM length, no enhancement to pinion angle.
7) Turn around time is 30 days after initial order is placed.
8) Orders must be prepaid in full, more on this later.
9) Unless damaged by outside forces, your present bushings are sufficient.

Notes to consider...
The designer/builder has inspected my original prototypes for wear and tear. It is his opinion that the OEM bushings (after two years of abuse) are in "like new" condition. His design of these CAs are this efficient, CA ends fully shroud OEM bushings and all they effectively do now is locate the CA in it's saddle on the frame.

However, I understand concern for wear and tear from the OEM CAs, and I explored getting fresh OEM bushings in sets of four. They come in two sizes, and are an additional 250.00 for a full set. These bushings will be installed correctly on the CAs when you get them. There is no minimum order for the bushings, but the 250.00 must also be prepaid, bumping your cost to 700.00, ready to install. Sorry gents, this is the best price I can get on bushings right now, so, I suggest you examine your present bushing's fitness before you replace them.

Phase two of this deal begins...
When you e-mail SergntMac@aol.com with your intent to place an order. I will send out further instructions from there.

The poll ^ there has served it's purpose, I am not expecting everyone who voted in the poll to actually buy, so, it's of no value to me now.

Send no money now, but be prepared to pre-pay your order when all ten promises (or more) are in. BTW, all 411 is strictly confidential, no one has ever had a problem dealing with Zack and I.

In your e-mail, please include the following 411. Copy and paste this?

MM.Net screen name:_____
Real name:_____
Shipping address with zip:_____
Contact phone number:_____
New OEM bushing yes/no:_____

Once I get ten promises, you will be contacted via e-mail regarding payment, and anticipated delivery date.

This is the best I can do gents, it's up to y'all from here. Thank you all for your comments and participation, it feels good when Zack and I can help out where we can.

[jimlam56]

PM sent Sir!
Thanks, Jim

[SergntMac]

#1 jimlam56
#2 AzMarauder

[Blackened300a]

I should be getting my tax return check soon. once I do, I shall inform you.
No promises at this point but a definate interest

[Badger]

Sir, Badger present Sir.
PM sent!

[fastblackmerc]

I have some stock control arms (less than 10,000 miles of use), if someone wants the bushings..... Taking bids now....

[SergntMac]

#1 Jimlam56
#2 AzMarauder
#3 Badger

[Rider90]

How does the powder coating hold up?

[MM03MOK]

How does the powder coating hold up?Mine are fine, almost 2 years later.

[CRUZTAKER]

I believe this belongs to you perhaps? (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showcase/files/6/2/7/BUSHING2Large.jpg)

I knew that pic was out there...but I couldn't remember where.
I need to get a better pic, as that one was attched to a thread regarding something else entirely.

Apparently I forgot to wipe them down that last wash before storage.

Yes...I wax them them every now and again as well.:rolleyes:
The G3 caliper paint really makes them shine.:coolman:

[SergntMac]

#1 Jimlam56
#2 AzMarauder
#3 Badger

Waiting on seven more

[SergntMac]

Now waiting on six more orders.

#1 Jimlam56
#2 AzMarauder
#3 Badger
#4 RC Signals

[Zack]

11 people are interested in the poll.
Where did you go????

[Dragcity]

Group buy is on. This can be done.

Went to see the designer/builder yesterday, and showed him the results of this poll. He's agreed to a GB, with his conditions. Without further delay, here's the scoop...

1) One full set of CAs is two upper and two lower arms.
2) Minumum order of ten sets will net us a GB cost of 450.00 per set.
3) 450.00 includes powdercoating and shipping.
4) If interests climbs, more orders can be added once the minimum is met, however, the GB price will expire 30 days after first order of ten is placed and shipping begins. Orders after that date will require another GB of ten.
5) Gloss black powdercoating only. No bare arms, no options on color.
6) Stock OEM length, no enhancement to pinion angle.
7) Turn around time is 30 days after initial order is placed.
8) Orders must be prepaid in full, more on this later.
9) Unless damaged by outside forces, your present bushings are sufficient.

Notes to consider...
The designer/builder has inspected my original prototypes for wear and tear. It is his opinion that the OEM bushings (after two years of abuse) are in "like new" condition. His design of these CAs are this efficient, CA ends fully shroud OEM bushings and all they effectively do now is locate the CA in it's saddle on the frame.

However, I understand concern for wear and tear from the OEM CAs, and I explored getting fresh OEM bushings in sets of four. They come in two sizes, and are an additional 250.00 for a full set. These bushings will be installed correctly on the CAs when you get them. There is no minimum order for the bushings, but the 250.00 must also be prepaid, bumping your cost to 700.00, ready to install. Sorry gents, this is the best price I can get on bushings right now, so, I suggest you examine your present bushing's fitness before you replace them.

Phase two of this deal begins...
When you e-mail SergntMac@aol.com with your intent to place an order. I will send out further instructions from there.

The poll ^ there has served it's purpose, I am not expecting everyone who voted in the poll to actually buy, so, it's of no value to me now.

Send no money now, but be prepared to pre-pay your order when all ten promises (or more) are in. BTW, all 411 is strictly confidential, no one has ever had a problem dealing with Zack and I.

In your e-mail, please include the following 411. Copy and paste this?

MM.Net screen name:_____
Real name:_____
Shipping address with zip:_____
Contact phone number:_____
New OEM bushing yes/no:_____

Once I get ten promises, you will be contacted via e-mail regarding payment, and anticipated delivery date.

This is the best I can do gents, it's up to y'all from here. Thank you all for your comments and participation, it feels good when Zack and I can help out where we can.

I have a question on item #6 above.

I thought the first run of these had an angle change that decreased body roll ?? I am confused as to the benefit of all being stock vs. modded.

Clearification would be helpful. I am interested if there is a real benefit. Sorry if I misunderstood something....

[SergntMac]

I have a question on item #6 above.

I thought the first run of these had an angle change that decreased body roll ?? I am confused as to the benefit of all being stock vs. modded.

Clearification would be helpful. I am interested if there is a real benefit. Sorry if I misunderstood something.... The enhancement of the pinion angle in the first production run has no effect on body roll, postive or negative. It was in improvement to the angle at which the driveshaft yoke, U-Joints and pinion flange move under high torque WOT acceleration. We are not offering the enhanced control arms in this GB, however I assure you the control arms will perform as stated here.

[Master]

Just wondering if anyone can offer a fair commentary on the differences between the Z&M CAs and the Metcos? I fully understand that JLT is a vendor and wish no disrespect. In the four pages of posts, however, I've not seen a single performance comarison between the two.
Though I'm not a suspension expert, I see the CAs as being simple supports - tension or compression only. They appear to have little need, regardless of manufacturer or design, to provide any lateral resistance to motion. If this observation is correct, then I'm not sure where the difference in design allows one to shine above the other.
Please enlighten an ignorant CET whose career path veered towards HVAC instead of SAE.
Would like to improve the rear handling of this beast, so your input will be highly valued.

[Badger]

See reply #8 as to why.
I've heard from several people that the added power from a s/c will make the back end wobble quite a bit when launching.

[SergntMac]

In the four pages of posts, however, I've not seen a single performance comarison between the two.
Though I'm not a suspension expert, I see the CAs as being simple supports - tension or compression only. They appear to have little need, regardless of manufacturer or design, to provide any lateral resistance to motion. If this observation is correct, then I'm not sure where the difference in design allows one to shine above the other. Well, answer one is that we here are a user board, not a national magazine that can afford to sample and test products.

Secondly, there's the time-line. The Zack and Mac CAs became available when there was no other CA at all, and by the time our preliminary production run of 50 sets sold out, a second design became available directly from Metco. Between the two products, and non-overlaping availability, an opportunity for testing as you suggest never materialized. Zack and I felt that the market was saturated at that time, and we decided not to offer a second run. Not everyone here has a need, or, a desire to mod their suspension, and at the present time, the market again seems saturated.

As I say in my opening post, this offer is about assisting the new members and new owners of used MMs now joining us. If we can get a minimum number of customers, we'll make some more CAs. However, all along and still today, we have a set of CAs set aside for independent testing, and that's about all we can do. If and when someone wants to set something up, we're game.

[BruteForce]

I have owned and abused both products. My "seat of the pants" review is that there is no real difference between the two as far as effect on handling. Both/either are a vast improvement over the OEM arms.

[SergntMac]

Thank you, sir!

[Master]

Merci beaucoup,
Answer received, digested, and appreciated.
All the best.

[jimlam56]

I'm wondering if there's anyone else on the fence still deciding on this group buy? Last I heard there was only 4 people including myself that have committed to purchase. Here's why I like these control arms, for what it's worth:
I like the tubular design, seems like there would be less side-to side flex than the other ones available.

I like utilizing the stock bushings, seems like there is more contact surface area than the other designs.

I don't need "bling" in that area of my Marauder, just one more thing to clean. I'd rather focus my attention on the engine compartment for shiny stuff.

I hope that more people take the plunge on this group buy. This thread has been pretty quiet lately. I may be all wet on the above reasons to purchase, and would love to hear from the engineers in the crowd...
Jim

[RCSignals]

See reply #8 as to why.
I've heard from several people that the added power from a s/c will make the back end wobble quite a bit when launching.


wobble?

With stock CA you mean?

[RCSignals]

Just wondering if anyone can offer a fair commentary on the differences between the Z&M CAs and the Metcos? I fully understand that JLT is a vendor and wish no disrespect. In the four pages of posts, however, I've not seen a single performance comarison between the two.
.............

Actually a search should have brought up some discussions, fairly recent, in which some comparisons were made, of bushing type, different CA with and without changed anti-swaybars etc.

[Badger]

RC: Yup with the stock CAs.

[Zack]

I think its safe to say there is not enough interest to produce another run.
Thanks to all those who have our CA's.
We are done here.

[FordNut]

I think its safe to say there is not enough interest to produce another run.
Thanks to all those who have our CA's.
We are done here.
Thank you for making the first ones, I have them and am still quite pleased.

[sabtaj1]

does anyone have an extra set of stockers I could take off your hands?? PM me please.

[Badger]

Ahhhhhh crap!

[jimlam56]

Zack, I hope you reconsider and keep it open for another week or so.
Jim

[Zack]

Zack, I hope you reconsider and keep it open for another week or so.
Jim

Thats fine with me, people need to step to the plate.

[Breadfan]

Guys I do want a set, but I really can't sport them at the moment.

I'd hate to miss out on what could be the final run though, they sound like a great product. I have yet to tackle my MM's suspension, when I do, I'd like to have a set of these. Right now I don't have the $500 lying around for this...give me a few months and I'm all in.

Maybe that's what we need...a few months for this to sit, give a number and say "once we have this amount we'll pursue another run" - but rather than a "I may be interested" seek people to sign up for the real thing.

So please don't stop making those, or badgeless grills for that matter, I plan to be a customer of both just not right now. :(

[Badger]

Shall we keep this open for three more months.:)
If need be I'll post a reminder in my outlook calender.

[SergntMac]

Adding one more, we're half way home.

#1 Jimlam56
#2 AzMarauder
#3 Badger
#4 RC Signals
#5 Silver Bullet

[SergntMac]

Thats fine with me, people need to step to the plate. I don't mind if this GB lays around a while, but I have a short attention span. I know the builder doesn't care, but I also know he's not going to drag his equipment out of the closet for less than ten sets, it's just not worth his time.

The only deadline, is y'all. Nothing is going to happen for any of us until ten owners with money in hand step up. Thirty days after that, they will have their new control arms.

[jimlam56]

I don't mind if this GB lays around a while, but I have a short attention span. I know the builder doesn't care, but I also know he's not going to drag his equipment out of the closet for less than ten sets, it's just not worth his time.

The only deadline, is y'all. Nothing is going to happen for any of us until ten owners with money in hand step up. Thirty days after that, they will have their new control arms.

C'mon folks, anybody else?

[Master]

We should be at six now, if SrgntMac has gotten my PM
- Master

[SergntMac]

We should be at six now, if SrgntMac has gotten my PM
- Master Well, you're not #6, that's for sure, 'cause SergntMac doesn't PM. Follow the instructions in post #40 here, and send him an e-mail via SergntMac@aol.com.

In your e-mail, please include the following 411. Copy and paste this?

MM.Net screen name:_____
Real name:_____
Shipping address with zip:_____
Contact phone number:_____
New OEM bushing yes/no:_____

Then you will be #6, and thank you.

[Master]

Actually, that's what I did. To the letter. I simply erred in referring to a message to your e-mail address as a private message. It was sent, exactly as you requested, yesterday afternoon.
If you cannot find said e-mail, please let me know and I'll send it again.

[martyo]

Actually, that's what I did. To the letter.

Don't mind Mac. His Customer Service Department is issued 9mms! :D

[SergntMac]

Just checked again, -Master, nothing yet. Please send again?

Don't mind Mac. His Customer Service Department is issued 9mms! :D What's this about?

[martyo]

Just checked again, -Master, nothing yet. Please send again?
What's this about?

Just teasing Mac. I have the day off from work.

[Master]

Did 'er again. Hope it comes through. Let me know.
Thanks,

[SergntMac]

"still checking, please hold"

[SergntMac]

Did 'er again. Hope it comes through. Let me know.
Thanks, Yes, your reply has arrived, but you still need to place an order.

[jimlam56]

So are we at 6 buyers now?
Surely there's 4 more members in need of this mod?

[Badger]

UUUUUuummmmm. Don't kill me guys...but I just got a set of Metco CAs. I was local to their shop and couldn't pass it up.
Minus me from the GB.
I apologise. I didn't do my homework as to where they were before I went to install my S/C.:depress:

[Master]

As for me, those e-mails I'd been sending to get in on the group buy have slowly been bouncing back over the last two days. Of the 6 messages I've sent, only one has gotten through, and of course it wasn't the one with the info. May go Metco myself. All the best,

[MM03MOK]

As for me, those e-mails I'd been sending to get in on the group buy have slowly been bouncing back over the last two days. Of the 6 messages I've sent, only one has gotten through, and of course it wasn't the one with the info. May go Metco myself. All the best,How about using the email option through the website. SergntMac (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/sendmessage.php?do=mailmember&u=392) AOL may be rejecting your ISP's email. Give it a try. I know this has worked for me in the past when I've had trouble emailing AOL users. Bounce-backs usually happen almost right away so something may be out of place with one or the other ISP.

[SergntMac]

May go Metco myself. All the best, Best wishes to you too, Master. Badger, no sweat. Enjoy your Metcos.

Here's the current GB list;

#1 Jimlam56
#2 AzMarauder
#3 RC Signals
#4 Silver Bullet

Six more buyers needed to launch this GB. Please let me know of any further changes at SergntMac@aol.com?

[SergntMac]

How about using the email option through the website. SergntMac (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/sendmessage.php?do=mailmember&u=392) AOL may be rejecting your ISP's email. Give it a try. I know this has worked for me in the past when I've had trouble emailing AOL users. Bounce-backs usually happen almost right away so something may be out of place with one or the other ISP. Yes, that's an option whch HAS worked, am I right, David?

[SergntMac]

Update: Here's the current GB list. We're half way home, folks!

#1 Jimlam56
#2 AzMarauder
#3 RC Signals
#4 Silver Bullet
#5 Master

[KillJoy]

Mac - You've Got Mail

KillJoy

[ALF]

I just got Big Dog car back at my shop in Morrisville, Pa. today and I don't think we will ever get the grin off his face after running 745 miles from Louisville,Ky. to his house on Sunday, we put the M&Z control arms on along with sway bars front and rear last week.

[SergntMac]

Update...Need four more orders!

#1 Jimlam56
#2 AzMarauder
#3 RC Signals
#4 Silver Bullet
#5 Master
#6 KillJoy149

Thank you all for your partcipation to this point.<!-- / message -->

[jimlam56]

Update...Need four more orders!

#1 Jimlam56
#2 AzMarauder
#3 RC Signals
#4 Silver Bullet
#5 Master
#6 KillJoy149

Thank you all for your partcipation to this point.<!-- / message -->
Anybody else still thinking about this group buy?

[KillJoy]

I hope! I would really prefer to get these over the others, but I can only wait so long!

Come on folks! Belly up to the bar and place your order!

Killjoy

[KillJoy]

Bumpity Bump Bump

[jimlam56]

I hope! I would really prefer to get these over the others, but I can only wait so long!

Come on folks! Belly up to the bar and place your order!

Killjoy
What he said^^^!!!

[KillJoy]

Bump yet again!

Are we there yet???

KillJoy

[SergntMac]

Originally Posted by SergntMac
Update...Need four more orders!

#1 Jimlam56
#2 AzMarauder
#3 RC Signals
#4 Silver Bullet
#5 Master
#6 KillJoy149

Thank you all for your partcipation to this point.<!-- / message -->

[KillJoy]

Vroom Vroom Vroom..... Back to the top!

KillJoy

[Master]

What, you're out, KillJoy?

[KillJoy]

Hunh??:confused:

KillJoy

[KillJoy]

I'm starting to think this GB isn't going to happen :(

Anyone w/ the first runs wanna sell me a theirs??? :D

KillJoy

[jimlam56]

I'm still commited to this group buy.
Anybody else? Only 4 more...

[KillJoy]

Back to the top for Monday!

KillJoy

[jimlam56]

Good Friday Bump!

[pacammer]

Guys and Gays,

I am a Zack and Mac control arms advocate. They are great and have held up perfectly. The handeling improvement is tremendous. Just ask the exotic Italian car owners that the marauder out handled at Pocono International Speedway, we ran turn 1, turn 2 and the infield last fall.

Gary

[Master]

Be nice if a Marauderville had an event like that as well. I'm really more interested in roadrace than dragrace. No offence intended to anyone, of course.

[jimlam56]

Be nice if a Marauderville had an event like that as well. I'm really more interested in roadrace than dragrace. No offence intended to anyone, of course.
I'm with you. Gainesville has a road track as well as a 1/4 mile.
Anybody else interested?

[glassman99]

I'm interested as long as there is not concrete walls. A road race would be interesting to see who has the best "all around" car.

[Master]

With a name like "Glassman" I can understand! :)
We held an autocross at a circle track (with concrete walls) and my buddy touched his Turbo Talon pretty hard on the front quarter. It was a nubie mistake, but I suppose that's any of us. I'd be playing real cautious-like in Florida as its a long and reeeeaaaly expensive trailer trip back to Nova Scotia.

[KillJoy]

BUMP BUMP BUMP!

KillJoy

[Master]

Explain the "bump" thing. I still don't get it. :confused:
(Sorry for being obtuse if its obvious to everyon else)

[KillJoy]

When you post to a thread, that thread goes to the top of it's Forum, or Back To The Top (BTT). Your are "Bumping" it to the top.

KillJoy

[jimlam56]

Explain the "bump" thing. I still don't get it. :confused:
(Sorry for being obtuse if its obvious to everyon else)
Bringing it back to the top of new posts.
We want to make sure nobody misses out.:D

[Master]

A good thing, or an annoying thing?

[KillJoy]

We are just making sure everyone who wants in on this Group Buy sees it. Four more orders are needed for it to happen. So far, it seems this is not going to happen :(

[BruteForce]

A good thing, or an annoying thing?

Take a chill pill :pill: friend. No one is forcing you to read the thread.

[Master]

Hey Killjoy, Jimlam56,
Thanks for the explanations. Most appreciated. I'm still getting accustomed to the lingo and methodologies that go with forums. I see now what the "Bump" means. Very interesting.
Bruteforce, thanks for the advice. If I thought someone was forcing me to read this I just don't know what I'd do :)
All the best, and thanks for the "bump". Hope we can get our group buy off the ground.

[KillJoy]

Zack, Mac, and everyone else. I am pulling out of this Group Buy. I have gotten an exceptional deal on a set of PHP Control Arms.

Sorry all. I hope the GB still goes through!

KillJoy

[Zack]

Zack, Mac, and everyone else. I am pulling out of this Group Buy. I have gotten an exceptional deal on a set of PHP Control Arms.

Sorry all. I hope the GB still goes through!

KillJoy

Best of luck, ours are better.

[KillJoy]

Best of luck, ours are better.

I agree. But I just don't see it happening any time soon :(

I got a great deal, and the time was right.

KillJoy - impatient as ever :rolleyes:

[SergntMac]

I agree. But I just don't see it happening any time soon. I got a great deal, and the time was right. KillJoy - impatient as ever :rolleyes:

Not a problem my friend, enjoy. If anyone else need to drop out, it's okay.

Here's the updated GB list. We're half way home, folks! Need five more bids, and again, thank you all for your patience.

#1 Jimlam56
#2 AzMarauder
#3 RC Signals
#4 Silver Bullet
#5 Master<!-- / message -->

[RF Overlord]

COME ON, PEOPLE! You've read all the testimonials in previous posts! NO ONE who owns a set of Z&M control arms (including me) has anything less than full praise for them...this is most likely your LAST chance to get a set, EVER!

"Just do it".

[KillJoy]

Back to the top for Monday!

KillJoy

PS - I'm still pullin for ya" ;)

[Zack]

Maybe we should do a Metco Group 'Buy-Back' and this will take off :-)

[Master]

Sarcasm? Metco already offered us a deal if we bought the CAs and that linky thing. But, we're still holding in there.

[Bigdogjim]

COME ON, PEOPLE! You've read all the testimonials in previous posts! NO ONE who owns a set of Z&M control arms (including me) has anything less than full praise for them...this is most likely your LAST chance to get a set, EVER!

"Just do it".
I had my set of M & Z control arms installed before Looseville!
I could net believe the way car handled! I should have done this first time around!

Thanks guys for a great product!

[Rider90]

Maybe we should do a Metco Group 'Buy-Back' and this will take off :-)
The ride of the Metco's feels broken in after a thousand miles, FYI...

[SergntMac]

The ride of the Metco's feels broken in after a thousand miles, FYI... This is not the first time you have left distracting comments in this thread, please stop this and start your own thread? Feel free to say what you want there.

There are five of your fellow members/MM owners waiting for their chosen improvement, don't pizz on them too, eh?

#1 Jimlam56
#2 AzMarauder
#3 RC Signals
#4 Silver Bullet
#5 Master<!-- / message -->

Y'all...I can go back to the builder and ask what he wants for just five sets. The cost will surely go up, but maybe not too much? Let me know what you want to do? E-mail me at SergntMac@aol.com Thanks.

[JMan]

This is not the first time you have left distracting comments in this thread, please stop this and start your own thread? Feel free to say what you want there.

There are five of your fellow members/MM owners waiting for their chosen improvement, don't pizz on them too, eh?

#1 Jimlam56
#2 AzMarauder
#3 RC Signals
#4 Silver Bullet
#5 Master<!-- / message -->

Y'all...I can go back to the builder and ask what he wants for just five sets. The cost will surely go up, but maybe not too much? Let me know what you want to do? E-mail me at SergntMac@aol.com Thanks.

Alright. Mac sign me up too! I'm over the expensive time of the year (for me that is) and am ready to bite the bullet. I couldn't stand having those ricer-looking polished aluminum things in the wells. It's black for me. Let me know what I need to do.

Thanks and happy cornering,

J

[SergntMac]

#1 Jimlam56
#2 AzMarauder
#3 RC Signals
#4 Silver Bullet
#5 Master
#6 J-Man

You're in and thank you. Four to go, folks!

[Mr Johnson]

I'm in! I'm also interested in recommendations for local install.

[SergntMac]

I'm in! I'm also interested in recommendations for local install. You're in, but please send me an e-mail as mentioned above. Install is a snap, give Zack a call?

#1 Jimlam56
#2 AzMarauder
#3 RC Signals
#4 Silver Bullet
#5 Master
#6 J-Man
#7 Mr. Johnson

Three to go, folks!

[Rider90]

I'm in! I'm also interested in recommendations for local install.
I know an excellent installer with years of old school rods and new exotic car experience under his belt in Northbrook.

[jimlam56]

I was starting to give up hope!
3 more to go...

[Mr Johnson]

You're in, but please send me an e-mail as mentioned above.

Done. Let me know if you don't get it.



Three to go, folks!
:poke: Just three more!

[SergntMac]

Message received.

[jimlam56]

I don't mind paying a little more, just to get them...

[jimlam56]

Bump? Is this still on?

[KillJoy]

No dead pedal from Zack and Mac, likewise no control arms.

???????

KillJoy

[SergntMac]

Bump? Is this still on?Need three more orders to reach the minimum. When they show, we'll go. But honestly, it doesn't look like that's going to happen.

[jimlam56]

Sigh...
So close, yet so far...only three more folks to sign up...
Does everybody who wants a set have them, besides the 7 who signed up?
Iread though a few old posts about these arms, everybody was real excited back then?????

[Haggis]

Ficitional Story:

Yesterday while driving home from the cruise-in this Beemer wanted to take me from the light, yea right. I had him from the green as hard as he would try he could not pass me, after 100yds it was over and I let up on the gas. Did he learn his lesson? What do you think? He kept wanting to prove something, so I would let him get so close and then say bye bye.

Well the two lanes ended and we're down to a single lane in each direction, double yellow line. Reaching speeds above posted we went down the twisty road. Not only could he not keep up, the distance increased between us as I showed him what good North American Muscle can do.

Thank you Mac & Zack for the control arms. My car handle all the twistys without a any concern or problems. You again receive the Haggis seal of approval. :2thumbs:

[KillJoy]

Haggis,

I'm sure the Kenny Brown made the guy with the mid-life crisis reconsider his choices!

:D

KillJoy

[Haggis]

Haggis,

I'm sure the Kenny Brown made the guy with the mid-life crisis reconsider his choices!

:D

KillJoy
The ficitional character in my story was in his late teens or early twenties, must have been driving daddy's car.

[KillJoy]

Gotcha ;)

KillJoy

[Mr Johnson]

If we can get one more maybe we can spread the cost of an additional two across the existing eight and at least get them? Anybody?!? :help:

Otherwise I'll be forced to pick up some Metcos in a couple of months. :bigcry:

[ts-pa]

As one of the original buyers, I can confirm what others have stated. Very well made, very easy to install yourself if you have the tools, no noise, and much improved handling, not harsh ride, and no maintence. In regards to a previous question on "lateral movement". These arms reduce it. This is very noticeable at any speed, such as after going over a speed bump or a dip or bump in the road. The rear does not wiggle around as much after the incident. My car is NOT a Marauder, but you will still notice the improvment in handling. If I recall correctly, the OEM arms would slid around on the bushings when pushed hard. Not these!

I have reviewed these arms in the past:

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/reviews/showproduct.php/product/27/sort/2/cat/20/page/1

As an update to that review, The "rust spots" that originally formed have not grown much at all since that time. I elected to keep them as they are and not refinish them. I abused my car on several occasions, such as following the state's plow/salt truck in very bad winter weather (I had to get to work, other people's jobs depend on me being there). Travelled through pretty deep flood waters on the same road. Also at least once every two weeks, a car wash where I spray the undercarriage down. I believe that the cinder that is thrown down in winter chipped the powder coating on the bottom of the lower arms initially. Don't follow the plow trucks too close and all should be well. If I had to do it all over again, I would still buy the same that I have now.

[Maj1151]

I'm considering picking up a set. What are we looking at for a set of front and rear Z&M's





All The Best,
~M

[jimlam56]

I'm considering picking up a set. What are we looking at for a set of front and rear Z&M's





All The Best,
~M


Your answer sir:

(QUOTE)

"Good news...
<HR style="COLOR: #d1d1e1" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->Group buy is on. This can be done.

Went to see the designer/builder yesterday, and showed him the results of this poll. He's agreed to a GB, with his conditions. Without further delay, here's the scoop...

1) One full set of CAs is two upper and two lower arms.
2) Minumum order of ten sets will net us a GB cost of 450.00 per set.
3) 450.00 includes powdercoating and shipping.
4) If interests climbs, more orders can be added once the minimum is met, however, the GB price will expire 30 days after first order of ten is placed and shipping begins. Orders after that date will require another GB of ten.
5) Gloss black powdercoating only. No bare arms, no options on color.
6) Stock OEM length, no enhancement to pinion angle.
7) Turn around time is 30 days after initial order is placed.
8) Orders must be prepaid in full, more on this later.
9) Unless damaged by outside forces, your present bushings are sufficient.

Notes to consider...
The designer/builder has inspected my original prototypes for wear and tear. It is his opinion that the OEM bushings (after two years of abuse) are in "like new" condition. His design of these CAs are this efficient, CA ends fully shroud OEM bushings and all they effectively do now is locate the CA in it's saddle on the frame.

However, I understand concern for wear and tear from the OEM CAs, and I explored getting fresh OEM bushings in sets of four. They come in two sizes, and are an additional 250.00 for a full set. These bushings will be installed correctly on the CAs when you get them. There is no minimum order for the bushings, but the 250.00 must also be prepaid, bumping your cost to 700.00, ready to install. Sorry gents, this is the best price I can get on bushings right now, so, I suggest you examine your present bushing's fitness before you replace them.

Phase two of this deal begins...
When you e-mail SergntMac@aol.com with your intent to place an order. I will send out further instructions from there.

The poll ^ there has served it's purpose, I am not expecting everyone who voted in the poll to actually buy, so, it's of no value to me now.

Send no money now, but be prepared to pre-pay your order when all ten promises (or more) are in. BTW, all 411 is strictly confidential, no one has ever had a problem dealing with Zack and I.

In your e-mail, please include the following 411. Copy and paste this?

MM.Net screen name:_____
Real name:_____
Shipping address with zip:_____
Contact phone number:_____
New OEM bushing yes/no:_____

Once I get ten promises, you will be contacted via e-mail regarding payment, and anticipated delivery date.

This is the best I can do gents, it's up to y'all from here. Thank you all for your comments and participation, it feels good when Zack and I can help out where we can."

[KillJoy]

I do not think there is a set of front CA's from Zack & Mac... or anyone for that matter.

KillJoy

[jimlam56]

I do not think there is a set of front CA's from Zack & Mac... or anyone for that matter.

KillJoy

Missed that part Killjoy, and I believe you are right.

[BLACKMARAUDER04]

I'm Very Interested After Reading All These Responses.
I Am Not Good At Doing Repairs. Can The Local Tire Shop,
(high Quality Work) Easily Do This Mod?

[KillJoy]

Only one way to know....Ask Them!

KillJoy

[jimlam56]

I'm Very Interested After Reading All These Responses.
I Am Not Good At Doing Repairs. Can The Local Tire Shop,
(high Quality Work) Easily Do This Mod?

Where do you live?
I bet there's a fellow MM owner willing to help.
If you can capitalize all your words, you can install these arms...:D

[Rider90]

I'm Very Interested After Reading All These Responses.
I Am Not Good At Doing Repairs. Can The Local Tire Shop,
(high Quality Work) Easily Do This Mod?
Here are a couple pictures about disassembly. It is very easy to do so long as you have the right tools. Any shop that can do a tune up should be able to handle this job.

http://midwestpanthers.net/CA/3.jpg
http://midwestpanthers.net/CA/4.jpg

[BLACKMARAUDER04]

Thanks Guys. I'm In The Los Angeles Area.
If You Go Ahead With The Group Buy, I'm In.
I Like The Fact They Use The Oem Bushings. No Squeeking, No Greaseing.

[jimlam56]

Thanks Guys. I'm In The Los Angeles Area.
If You Go Ahead With The Group Buy, I'm In.
I Like The Fact They Use The Oem Bushings. No Squeeking, No Greaseing.

PM Sargeant Mac to get in the GB. (Just a suggestion)

[KillJoy]

Thanks Guys. I'm In The Los Angeles Area.
If You Go Ahead With The Group Buy, I'm In.
I Like The Fact They Use The Oem Bushings. No Squeeking, No Greaseing.

Send Mac an Email. He address is up a bit further.

KillJoy

PS - IT LOOKS CLOSE! This may happen yet!

[MM03MOK]

PM Sargeant Mac to get in the GB. (Just a suggestion)No PMs. e-mail SergntMac@aol.com

[jimlam56]

No PMs. e-mail SergntMac@aol.com
Oh Yeah, forgot.
What a good 'ministrator you are!:bows:

[BLACKMARAUDER04]

Thanks. E-mail sent. Does that give us 8 people now?

[Master]

Better still, rather than absorbing the cost, why not just build the ten sets and then stock two of them. You know someone will want them. Working out the money aspect might be a bit trickier - maybe make them a raffle item for Florida? Just a thought.
BTW: When I buy my XcalII from Lidio, is there a member price or should I just be happy with $399?
- David

[KillJoy]

When I buy my XcalII from Lidio, is there a member price or should I just be happy with $399?

Not sure. Why not just ask him?

KillJoy

[Master]

I will ask. Thought a quick check here would avoid the risk of any inpropriety. Like to be friendly to our vendors and not come off as all cheap-and-annoying. I'd rather do that here :)

[KillJoy]

I will ask. Thought a quick check here would avoid the risk of any inpropriety. Like to be friendly to our vendors and not come off as all cheap-and-annoying. I'd rather do that here :)

I wouldn't say it would be being cheap. Others do offer XCal2's w/ Tunes for less than $400, so, you would be making a wiser decision by "shopping around". No one can fault anyone for wanting to save a few bucks!

KillJoy

[SergntMac]

ATTENTION: ALL INTERESTED IN PURCHASING OUR CONTROL ARMS.

Due to the length of time this oppotunity has been pending, my notes have become stale. Some of you have replied to my e-mail, but not answering the questions listed below. I cannot track this GB with the 411 I have on hand. We may be right around the corner from fulfilling the minimum GB of ten orders, please respond to SergntMac@aol.com with your bid to participate.

MM.Net screen name:_____
Real name:_____
Shipping address with zip:_____
Contact phone number:_____

Once 10 bids are counted, you will be asked to forward payment to Zack. Once the money for all ten sets is in, the control arms will be delivered within 30 days. If you delay in payment, you are delaying everyone in the GB.

Fingers crossed, let's run through the number one more time?

Thank youall for your patience.

[Master]

Updated info sent.
Thanks,
David

[JMan]

Mac,
E-mail sent!

J

[jimlam56]

Email sent Sir.

[SergntMac]

Here's an updated list of folks in the GB.

Notes:
You will be contacted when and where to send your payment.

At this time, the price is holding at $450.00 a set, but it may change depending on the cost of the steel on the day we place the order.

We are promised a 30 day turnaround after placing the order.

We cannot provide new bushings at a reasonable cost to you, however, we firmly believe your present bushings will be just fine. I still have the original prototype CAs with my factory OEM bushings in place. 37K of hard driving on the OEM bushings, and the handling and control is awesome, no sign of fatigue.

Powdercoat will be gloss black.

Please e-mail any corrections to SergntMac@aol.com

1) BlackMarauder04
2) Master
3) Mr. Johnson
4) JMan
5) LTMarauder
6) JimLam56
7) LadyHawke
8)
9)
10)

Three to go, thank you all for your patience.

[Zack]

I will buy a set.

[SergntMac]

I will buy a set. Done!

1) BlackMarauder04
2) Master
3) Mr. Johnson
4) JMan
5) LTMarauder
6) JimLam56
7) LadyHawke
8) SilverBullet
9) Mac
10)Zack

Okay, we're done. Folks get your pay-pal payment to ZackMcGrath@HotMail.com , or, call him
at 708.476.2647 for other arrangements. The order will not be placed until all the money is in, so, let us not delay others.

End of story, and GB.

[KillJoy]

I will buy a set.

Did you send Mac an email w/ all your 411? ;)

:D

KillJoy

[Mr Johnson]

Payment sent!

Thanks Z&M for buying the two "extra" sets to round out the GB and making this happen! :beer:

[KillJoy]

YEAH!

Congrats Guys! You're gonna love 'em!

KillJoy

[BLACKMARAUDER04]

Payment Sent:) Can't Wait To Try Them Out!!

[jimlam56]

Payment sent! Thank you!

[AzMarauder]

Payment Sent !

:beer:

[LTMarauder]

Payment sent. Thanks for arranging this and helping out!

:thanks: :banana2:

[Zack]

At this rate, production will start next weekend.
Waiting on 3 people I think.

[Zack]

Everyone is paid but Master.
I will send him a friendly pm right now.....

[Master]

Got my PM. Just awaiting some instruction on how best to pay. Not too familiar with how this is best handled. Should hear from Zack shortly and we should be rolling again.

[Zack]

Talked to the fabricator a little bit ago.
Im bringing him all the money before the end of the week.
He anticipates a few weeks before completion.
If anyone wants to get in on this, now is the time.

[2003DOHC]

Payment sent. Thank you!

[Master]

Guys, I just wanted to give you all an update in case you were wondering what the HE(double hockey sticks) I was doing. My Paypal had a $137 limit on it, so I had to jump through the hoops of giving credit card info (again) and bank account info. Now I'm just waiting for two PAyPal deposits that I use to verify my account. When these show up (and it shouldn't be any later than tomorrow), I'll get verified and send the money ASAP.
I'm very sorry for delaying this on you guys. I haven't used Paypal in a while, so was unprepared for this.
Please forgive!
- David

[Zack]

Dont worry Dave, Ill drop the money off Friday.

[Master]

Payment Sent! Finally!
Thanks so much, everyone, for your patience.

[Zack]

11 people are in on this.
Work starts Monday, thanks everyone.

[BLACKMARAUDER04]

A) Just wondering how the manufacturing of the control arms are going?

B) I was looking at some old threads regarding the replacement of the oem nuts. Should we replace these when we do the control arms? If so, do you have the correct part numbers for the nuts? I would like to order them before they arms arive so I can be ready for the install.

[SergntMac]

A)I was looking at some old threads regarding the replacement of the oem nuts. Should we replace these when we do the control arms? If so, do you have the correct part numbers for the nuts? I would like to order them before they arms arive so I can be ready for the install. As long as you use the proper tools for the install, IMHO, replacing the hardware is not necessary.

I still have the original prototype control arms on my #1x KB, and they have survived brutal testing and driving for over 20K miles now. Ditto the OEM bushings My original OEM hardware was removed and returned, and it's still on the job today.

Now, if you think something may get messed up in your install, like you need to heat the nut to loosen it, why tak chances? The hardware is available at any L/M parts department.

[Zack]

Production is on schedule.

[Master]

Cool. Would that put it at about July 05 for shipment?

[Zack]

Cool. Would that put it at about July 05 for shipment?

Thats what was promised to me, roughly.

[CRUZTAKER]

I would like to add that this is quite honorable you guys...

Offering what I had always felt to be a unique 'not for anyone' product to the masses again. :up:

[Zack]

Everything is on schedule.
They will be ready to ship in about a week and a half.

[jimlam56]

Any updates?
Thanks, Jim

[Zack]

Im gonna call him at 10am. From last weeks conversation, it sounded like they would be ready today.
Ill post back later. I know we are waiting on the powdercoater at this point.

[Zack]

Well I got the update and was dissapointed. Rather than explaining, we are shooting for early next week.
Thanks for the understanding, its not the builders fault.

[Master]

Hey, I've waited this long. What's another weeK? Its raining anyway. Would kill me to have the parts and not be able to go out to put them on.

[Zack]

Update.
The control arms are built and just arrivved at the powdercoater.
im leaving for Floriday Thursday at 3pm, but hope to have all the sets shipped before departure.
We have 10 sets sold, but 16 sets were manufactured.
So if you would like to have the best control arms available, here is your chance.
Thanks

[Zack]

Ok, they are done but not in my hands yet!
The builder is on his way to the north side of Chicago to pick them up.
I will pick them up from him later tonight. The boxes are already built and the instructions printed.
Im leaving for Florida tomorrow, but will arrive late to work so I can ship them out. Everyone has been patient enough and trusting me with their money!!
Your name and tracking # will be in THIS thread tomorrow before noon.
From Mac and I, thank you.

[Big House]

Zack,

Have the extra CA's been claimed. If not I would like a pair. I can wait until you get back but I definitly want a pair. I was leaning Metco's way but after reading about these I am sold. $450 right? What is the shipping to 20032.

House

[Zack]

Zack,

Have the extra CA's been claimed. If not I would like a pair. I can wait until you get back but I definitly want a pair. I was leaning Metco's way but after reading about these I am sold. $450 right? What is the shipping to 20032.

House

$450 shipped.
Paypal tonight to:
zackmcgrath@hotmail.com
they will go out tomorrow.
Thanks

[Big House]

Any option other than paypal? Got screwed the lasting time I used it. Account got hacked 1200 was attempted but the bank got them after the first 300. Really weary of using it now.

[SergntMac]

From Mac and I, thank you. Yup...Thank you all very much. I'm pleased (and proud) this project came in on time.

Do us a favor and post up with your impressions once you have the install completed? We appreciate the feedback, and it encourages us to develop more accessories for the Marauder down the road (and we do have more ideas on the planning table now).

Thanks again, high five Zack! Nice job!

[MM2004]

Yup...Thank you all very much. I'm pleased (and proud) this project came in on time.

Do us a favor and post up with your impressions once you have the install completed? We appreciate the feedback, and it encourages us to develop more accessories for the Marauder down the road (and we do have more ideas on the planning table now).

Thanks again, high five Zack! Nice job!

You're welcome guys as I will soon be the proud owner of a set!

Paypal tonite Zack.

Mike.

[Master]

Thanks much for all the help! Can't hardly wait! Want to give us a hint as to the next "projects" you might be planning?

[AzMarauder]

Ok, they are done but not in my hands yet!
The builder is on his way to the north side of Chicago to pick them up.
I will pick them up from him later tonight. The boxes are already built and the instructions printed.
Im leaving for Florida tomorrow, but will arrive late to work so I can ship them out. Everyone has been patient enough and trusting me with their money!!
Your name and tracking # will be in THIS thread tomorrow before noon.
From Mac and I, thank you.

Actually... thanks to YOU and MAC !

Waiting a little pales in comparison to the work you guys went / are going through to get the product produced for us! :bows:

[Zack]

Thanks much for all the help! Can't hardly wait! Want to give us a hint as to the next "projects" you might be planning?

About your Control Arms. I have to travel many miles to a facility that does international ground. I will try and make it there before my flight to Florida tomorrow. I can only promise Ill do my best.

[Zack]

One more thing to everyone.
We normally run a hone through the bushing ends to clean up any powdercoating or tape left behind. Its simply for cosmetic reasons.
I was so rushed to get these out tomorrow, we had to skip this step.
Some arms might have some tape or powdercoating left behind. Do not worry.
The bushings will go in just as easily, or you can remove any residuals with a utility knife blade. You wont see anything once the bushings are installed.

[Zack]

Here Are the Tracking #'s from Fed Ex!
Here is the beginning of the tracking #.
469107350347
Your last 3 digits is after your name

Craig Zelden 225
Peter Korp 232
Jake Freije 249
Jim Lambert 270
Chris Heissler 294
Henry Satinskas 300
Rich Alves 317
Steven Banta 348
Kevin Campbell 362
Edna Richardson 379
Mike Heckman 409
David Forbrigger UPS# 1Z610X796851487449
Mac In my Garage
Zack Also in my Garage waiting to go on MM #2

[Zack]

I have 5 extra sets that are not sold, ready to go!
Soonest i could ship is next week.

[AzMarauder]

Thanks Zack....

Enjoy your trip !

[SergntMac]

Man-oh-man, that just not cool.

Everybody else gets free shipping but me. I gotta go to the garage to get mine.

Bummer...

[Mr Johnson]

Sweet! Mine are already delivered but... I'm sitting in California until tomorrow night. :bigcry:

Thanks again.:beer:

[Zack]

TTT.
Check in here with your first impressions!
Also, there are 5 unsold sets, making this last run a total of 20 sets. That puts the Z&M Bars up to around 80 sets on the road.

[Haggis]

The set of control arms arrived with no problems, looking good Zack. Now Chris is bothering me to put them on #5.

[DefyantExWife]

Haggis... did you ever see that web site they have in your honor ? I posted it last week :confused: :D

[Haggis]

Haggis... did you ever see that web site they have in your honor ? I posted it last week :confused: :D
No!

And stop hijacking the thread.

[DefyantExWife]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v682/snexus/nena.jpg Here Haggis, I think you need one. :D


and back on topic: If control arms were necessary, they would be stock.


woooo.. that sounded pretty... car geeky didnt it. My vocabulary is expanding. :)

[Rider90]

They are neccessary, they are on there stock, we just think we need "stronger" ones or something about the pinion angle and what not.

Makes me wonder if Zack had the M&Z control arms on when he damaged his tail shaft from high speed.

[DefyantExWife]

oh okay, shows what I know :lol: Where's Marc when I need him :D

[Zack]

They are neccessary, they are on there stock, we just think we need "stronger" ones or something about the pinion angle and what not.

Makes me wonder if Zack had the M&Z control arms on when he damaged his tail shaft from high speed.

My car had 200 miles on it back in October of 02 when that happened.

[Mr Johnson]

TTT.
Check in here with your first impressions!
Also, there are 5 unsold sets, making this last run a total of 20 sets. That puts the Z&M Bars up to around 80 sets on the road.

Got them installed today but didn't really get a chance to exercise them too much as the weather got lousy in the PM.

Initial impressions are defintely very positive. The rear seems to hold on more and tracks better when accelerating in a turn. Tough to say how much better until I get it to some more familiar twisties but that report will come later.

Thanks for the run of new Z&M's! :beer:

[Master]

Installed mine last night as well. Can't stress enough the importance of reading instructions carefully. I didn't notice the chamfered edge at first. What a riot getting the darn things out again! Don't recommend haste at all. In the end, it only took about two hours to do it all. Unfortunately, I can't notice a difference at all - i'm running my studded winters on the back now as the stockers are off ot Lidio for widening. Thanks for the great service, though. Much appreciated.

[Master]

PS
Question to those who have had the stock CAs off: Did you see a washer on the outboard side of each bushing on the lower CA when you removed them? once side (the right) had them, but the left didn't. The left had a lot of slack so I added a washer to replicate the fit on the R.H. Side. My rig had been in to Ford a few times, so I'm wondering if they forgot to re-install the washers. Thoughts? Comments?

[Zack]

PS
Question to those who have had the stock CAs off: Did you see a washer on the outboard side of each bushing on the lower CA when you removed them? once side (the right) had them, but the left didn't. The left had a lot of slack so I added a washer to replicate the fit on the R.H. Side. My rig had been in to Ford a few times, so I'm wondering if they forgot to re-install the washers. Thoughts? Comments?

There arent supposed to be any washers anywhere.

[Zack]

Unfortunately, I can't notice a difference at all - i'm running my studded winters on the back now as the stockers are off ot Lidio for widening. Thanks for the great service, though. Much appreciated.

When you turn a corner, let us know, k?

[Mr Johnson]

So I had a chance to drive my "usual" roads today and all I can say is: Wonderful, Wonderful, Wonderful!

A fantastic upgrade over stock. The car feels much lighter and more nimble powering through the turns without seeming to compromise the normal ride at all. :bows:

I'm glad I got in on this run. To anybody on the fence: I can't compare the different options but after feeling this improvement I find it hard to believe you wouldn't be happy with them. Get in on the last couple sets while you can.

[SergntMac]

So I had a chance to drive my "usual" roads today and all I can say is: Wonderful, Wonderful, Wonderful!

A fantastic upgrade over stock. The car feels much lighter and more nimble powering through the turns without seeming to compromise the normal ride at all. :bows:

I'm glad I got in on this run. To anybody on the fence: I can't compare the different options but after feeling this improvement I find it hard to believe you wouldn't be happy with them. Get in on the last couple sets while you can. "Nimble" says a lot, perhaps all that needs to be said.

Thank you, Mr. Johnson.

[Master]

Hey Zack,
Maybe Ford had the side with the washers apart and for some reason added them? Now I'm not sure if I should leave in all four, remove the two I added, or take all of them out, including the ones that fell out when I took the factory set-up apart. Questions, questions. Now I need my Nitto 305s and widened rims to experience the whole package. Thanks again for all the help with this.

[KillJoy]

Hey Zack,
Maybe Ford had the side with the washers apart and for some reason added them? Now I'm not sure if I should leave in all four, remove the two I added, or take all of them out, including the ones that fell out when I took the factory set-up apart. Questions, questions. Now I need my Nitto 305s and widened rims to experience the whole package. Thanks again for all the help with this.

Ummmm.....mine didn't have any washers.

KillJoy

[Bradley G]

I dont remember any washers on the Marauder, but the 2002 Marquis has those oblong washers to the out board side.

[fastblackmerc]

Didn't have any washers on my '04 when I installed the Metco arms.