Washer Mod For Rear Shocks To Use Wider Tires

[KillJoy]

Here we go. Discussion open:

KillJoy

[AzMarauder]

Since no one has stepped up I will share what I was told.. or remember...


Apparently the lower shock mount (its midnight, I'm not going to go crawl under the Marauder) has a spacer on both sides of the shock.

You remove the bolt... take the spacer that is on the inside.. cut it in 1/2. Put one of the halves on the opposite side of the shock in addition to the spacer that was already there (between shock and outboard side) and 1/2 back on the inside and reinsert the bolt. The lower end of the shock is now positioned a 1/2 spacer more away from the tire.

Now, perhaps someone who has done it can confirm or correct what I remember. I have not done the mod.

[Vortech347]

I'm running 285's on the rear of mine and they don't rub at all.

[FordNut]

Just go with the QA1 shocks, plenty of clearance.

[AzMarauder]

Just go with the QA1 shocks, plenty of clearance.

I am dying to do that FordNut.

If I PM you my address.. can you drop a couple in the mail to me? :D

[Marauderjack]

Brian,

What is the part number for the QA1 for our cars??

Also, do they have them for front and back??

Marauderjack:help:

[FordNut]

Brian,

What is the part number for the QA1 for our cars??

Also, do they have them for front and back??

Marauderjack:help:

Correct part number from Naake is NA-MMR and is on sale for $369/pr.

I used MU-7855-P Mustang ones and modified the spacers/bushings to fit, got them for about $100 each on ebay, brand new.

They do have both front & rear, but the fronts are the coilovers and are pricey.

See here: http://www.naake.com/

[Marauderjack]

Thanks!!:beer:

[SergntMac]

I'm running 285's on the rear of mine and they don't rub at all. As stated earlier in another thread...I have Pirelli P-Zero Assymetricos in 285/45-18, mounted on stock MM wheels modified to 9.5" wide and purchased through Lidio.

This is my left rear tire, notice the clean band around the tire, just above where the tire bears Pirelli's name and size data.

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showc...c=3&userid=392 (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showcase/showimage.php?i=1924&c=3&userid=392)

Here are three views of my left rear shock absorber, kindly note the "dust" rubbed from the shock. I've always talked about "just brushing the dust", without scrubbing the paint off the shock. Why does this happen with a 285 wide tire with the strongest sidewalls in the industry?

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showc...c=3&userid=392 (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showcase/showimage.php?i=1923&c=3&userid=392)
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showc...c=3&userid=392 (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showcase/showimage.php?i=1922&c=3&userid=392)
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showc...c=3&userid=392 (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showcase/showimage.php?i=1921&c=3&userid=392)

Now when Zack posts his pics of claim (also from the other thread) about paint removed from the shock by a 295 wide BFG drag radial on a Lidio 9.5" wide wheel, we'll learn more?

Meanwhile...I'm not getting a strong grip of this mod as it's been described. What isn't clear to me, is how this mod addresses fitment of wider wheels and tires. Looking at my pics, the rubbing occurs at the very top of the shock. Relocating the bottom of the shock inboard, even this small distance, doesn't impress me as being effective against that contact, but I'll have to look at it more.

Any complication with suspension dynamics? Function? Shock life or, wear and tear?

Anyone got some pics or drawings?

[MikesMerc]

As for "moving the shock 3/16 of an inch mod":

The reason you are not getting much info on this mod is that we are aware of only ONE person who has done this....MarauderMike. This is not a "Lidio Mod"....Mike came up with this one on his own.

Although I do not want to contradict my good friend AzMarauder, there really hasn't been much discussed about Mike's mod around here. Most of us simply didn't need to do anything else to our cars to get things to fit. We know "of" Mike's mod, but little actually about it.

Sadly, because of Mac's obvious display of outright aggression towards Slim and the rest of the MCM'ers in the last thread, Mike is not interested in coming around and talking about his mod here and getting flamed by Mac as well. Although I anticipate I'll regret it, I'll encourage him to stop by here and post more about it.

In the meantime, let's not forget that running Nitto 305s and the 9.5" rim automatically means fitment problems. On the contrary, most of those folks running the combination that I know of HAVE NO FITMENT ISSUES. So, if anyone is interested in the Nitto 555 and 9.5" rim combo, a fitment mod would only be necessary IF you have the problem. IF this does occur, many additional options have already been discussed (QA1 shocks, spacer, move shock, don't run the combo, etc).

EDIT - My comments pertain ONLY to the Nitto 305 and 9.5" rim. If others run other tire makes and models with different sidewall characteristics, then that is a different matter from what i am referring to. All the positive fitment experiences I am personally aware of (at least 8 people) are with the Nitto 305s and widened 9.5" rim.

[SergntMac]

Get off the cross, I need the wood.

[MI2QWK4U]

Get off the cross, I need the wood.

Mac, Keep it constructive or dont post at all.


Sadly, because of Mac's obvious display of outright aggression towards Slim and the rest of the MCM'ers in the last thread, Mike is not interested in coming around and talking about his mod here and getting flamed by Mac as well. Although I anticipate I'll regret it, I'll encourage him to stop by here and post more about it.


I saw that aggressive stance towards Darry as well. Darryl didnt do anything but explain things as he knows them. If Mike wants to post about his mod, he can rest assured that he wont be subjected to the same demeaning behaviour. No one should be afraid to offer their experience because they dont want to put up with ridcule from someone that doesnt see things their way.

Anyone that gets nasty or derogatory towards someone explaining their experience wont be tolerated. I dont care if you dont agree.

[MI2QWK4U]

Just go with the QA1 shocks, plenty of clearance.


What all does this entail? just the rears? is it an all around kit? Please lay it out, I never checked into the QA1 setup at all. Cost as well. Thanks in advance.

[AzMarauder]

As stated earlier in another thread...I have Pirelli P-Zero Assymetricos in 285/45-18, mounted on stock MM wheels modified to 9.5" wide and purchased through Lidio.

Ah.. but you aren't running the OEM wheels.......

That is one of the caveats that I mentioned when I discussed my fitment, I am using aftermarket wheels. And I get the same "rubbing" that you do with 295s.

Interesting how different each item can be even tho the "specs" are supposed to be the same.

[SergntMac]

I saw that aggressive stance towards Darry as well. Darryl didnt do anything but explain things as he knows them. If Mike wants to post about his mod, he can rest assured that he wont be subjected to the same demeaning behaviour. No one should be afraid to offer their experience because they dont want to put up with ridcule from someone that doesnt see things their way. Did either of you read my apology? My apology to the members at large for disrupting the thread, and to Darryl individually? Doesn't a man's public apology mean anything?

[SergntMac]

With regards to the mention of specifications, I expect a 285/45-18 tire from Pirelli to measure out to a 285/45-18 tire from Nitto, or, BFG, or any of them. However, I realize that the Lidio modified wheel is a hand crafted wheel, and not every wheel will measure out exactly the same. These are acceptable variances in quality control.

"No one that I know of" is a disclaimer, and an honest statement. However, if a 285/45-18 rubs just a tiny bit, and a 295/45-18 rubs a bit more, it's logical that a 305/45-18 would rub a even a bit more, rather than not at all. However, it is entirely possible.

This mot recent round of discussions began with John Russo's question "do you need spacers". An honest answer here, would be "depends."

[MI2QWK4U]

Did either of you read my apology? My apology to the members at large for disrupting the thread, and to Darryl individually? Doesn't a man's public apology mean anything?

Sure it does Mac. Takes a man to apologize. Its just that some people find it as easy to apologize as it is to inflict the damage in the first place. I was addressing something never addressed here before, someone being so disgusted and perhaps intimadated to speak his experience to us because someone else got jumped on and ridiculed for speaking his experience. To me there is a big difference between and opinion, and factual experience.
This applies to anyone, whether or not you agree with it, if someone takes the time to share their personal experience in a factual way, let them. Ask questions and together try to figure out why your 285s rubbed, Zacks 295s rubbed, and why the vast majority of 305 nittos dont rub? You were right there with this statement:


"No one that I know of" is a disclaimer, and an honest statement. However, if a 285/45-18 rubs just a tiny bit, and a 295/45-18 rubs a bit more, it's logical that a 305/45-18 would rub a even a bit more, rather than not at all. However, it is entirely possible.

That is a damm good question. Lets try to figure out why? Sidewall construction, deformation under load? Tire pressure? etc.
I think that we could all be best served that way? Dont you?

[MikesMerc]

"No one that I know of" is a disclaimer, and an honest statement. However, if a 285/45-18 rubs just a tiny bit, and a 295/45-18 rubs a bit more, it's logical that a 305/45-18 would rub a even a bit more, rather than not at all. However, it is entirely possible.

Just for clarification, if you happen to be referring to what I've posted, I said:
"most of those folks running the combination that I know of HAVE NO FITMENT ISSUES"

The key word here is "most." I never said all. Do I know of a few folks that did indeed have a fitment issue? yep. Did they resolve with a spacer, shock change, shock relocation, or tire/rim combo change...yep. So there you have it. Although "most" people didn't have a fitment issue, "some" did.

Perhaps we agree at this point.




This mot recent round of discussions began with John Russo's question "do you need spacers". An honest answer here, would be "depends."

I fully agree. I'll only add that, based on my exposure to numerous individuals who have the Nitto 305s and 9.5" widen rim combo, "most" folks do not have the fitment issue. This observation only serves to express my personal opinion as to the "odds" one might have with that particular combination and fitment issues.

It seems we have come full circle here.






Originally Posted by SergntMac

"No one that I know of" is a disclaimer, and an honest statement. However, if a 285/45-18 rubs just a tiny bit, and a 295/45-18 rubs a bit more, it's logical that a 305/45-18 would rub a even a bit more, rather than not at all. However, it is entirely possible.


That is a damm good question. Lets try to figure out why? Sidewall construction, deformation under load? Tire pressure? etc.
I think that we could all be best served that way? Dont you?

Yes, Dave, this does seem to be at the heart of the matter. This is where we might begin asking more questions. All I know is that most folks don't have fitment issues with the 305s and 9.5" combo without any spacers or mods. "Why" is indeed the real question.

[bigslim]

Did either of you read my apology? My apology to the members at large for disrupting the thread, and to Darryl individually? Doesn't a man's public apology mean anything?
Apology? I must have missed that one.

[SergntMac]

It in the same thread...Looks like all of you missed it.

[Zack]

It is possible the guy modifying the wheels is welding the inserts on each wheel a little differently.
It is also possible the 1.5" insert is +/- on each application.
This would explain the rub/no rub conditions unique to each car.

[MI2QWK4U]

It is possible the guy modifying the wheels is welding the inserts on each wheel a little differently.
It is also possible the 1.5" insert is +/- on each application.
This would explain the rub/no rub conditions unique to each car.


Wow, thats a hell of a good thought. Thanks Zack.


ps...I didnt edit Zacks post, I hit edit instead of quote!

[MikesMerc]

It is possible the guy modifying the wheels is welding the inserts on each wheel a little differently.
It is also possible the 1.5" insert is +/- on each application.
This would explain the rub/no rub conditions unique to each car.

I think this along with small manufacturing variances of the cars suspension itself explain what's happening.

Even for those that get the 305s 9.5" combo to fit without any rubbing, its still pretty tight. I can easily imagine the differences in each car, and in each custom made rim, explain why most fit, but some don't.

There really can't be any other explanation for the same combo fitting differently on the same car.

That said, there might be other things, as dave mentioned, like sidewall construction, effects of tire pressures, when looking at different tires on the 9.5" rim.

[Warpath]

I didn't read every post. I running short on time at the moment. But, I wanted to add that there is a lot of dimensional variation from frame to frame. In other words, if you were to measure one frame and compare the same measurement to another, there could easily be a "large" discrepancy. Welding frames together involves a lot of pieces and a lot of heat. The OEMs do not run a series of tacks to keep distortion down. That takes too much time. Therefore, there is a lot of distortion from welding (a lot relative to the accuracy of other things on the vehicle). Also, since there are so many peices, the variations add up quickly. In other words, one piece is 0.05" off, so is the second, and so is the third.... That can add up to a 0.25" here or there. I've seen frames vary as much as 0.25" from one to the next. This variation added to the wheel variation, tire variation, amount of tire/wheel/control arm/Watts link deflection, how aggressive you drive, etc. will explain why some people see rubbing while others don't.

[FordNut]

Just go with the QA1 shocks, plenty of clearance.

What all does this entail? just the rears? is it an all around kit? Please lay it out, I never checked into the QA1 setup at all. Cost as well. Thanks in advance.
I only changed my rears. Check the link in post #7 of this thread.

[SergntMac]

Thanks, Joe! Looks like we found an answer, or, at least a clue.

[Brutus]

Just my observations, but it appears that the shocks are mounted at an angle, meaning, the bottom of the shocks are farther out towards the wheel at the bottom, and the top is in away from the wheel. So what Im trying to say is that maybe with the 3 tire sizes mentioned the 305's are the tallest and have more clearance at the sidewall where it meets the shock vs the 285's and 295's that are not as tall.

[STLR FN]

I think this along with small manufacturing variances of the cars suspension itself explain what's happening.

Hmmm where did I hear this before.

[SergntMac]

285/45-18s are 28.10" tall
295/45-18s are 28.45" tall, +.35" taller than 285/
305/45-18s are 28.81" tall, +.36" taller than 295/, and .71" taller than 285/

Something to think about, yes. But, I imagine that if this was the answer, some portion of the sidewall of any of the tires questioned would make some kind of contact somewhere, because the difference in 285/, 295/, and 305/ is width. Therefore, Warpath's 411 on frame and suspension variables is most informing, IMHO, to this point.

My MM was used for the measuring and research of our Z&M control arms. Maybe, (meaning if it doesn't cost a lot) we could measure a few other MMs in the area, and peek at these varibles. But, if the designer wants another 3K in cash for that, screw it. Go fish...

[SergntMac]

Hmmm where did I hear this before. In a thread that got closed too soon?

Lot's of stuff comes full circle, DJ, have some patience?

[STLR FN]

Ummm...Okay.

285/45-18s are 28.10" tall
295/45-18s are 28.45" tall, +.35" taller than 285/
305/45-18s are 28.81" tall, +.36" taller than 295/, and .71" taller than 285/

Something to think about, yes. But, I imagine that if this was the answer, some portion of the sidewall of any of the tires questioned would make some kind of contact somewhere. Therefore, Warpath's 411 on frame and suspension variables is most informing, IMHO, to this point.

My MM was used for the measuring and research of our Z&M control arms. Maybe, (meaning if it doesn't cost a lot) we could measure a few other MMs in the area, and peek at these variables. But, if the designer wants another 3K in cash for that, screw it. Go fish...

MAC lets give all the dimensions not just the height. The width in each tire will play into account big time. As seen in the chart below, per Nitto's web site, if you/anyone are/is running Nitto's, you can see that a 305 is a full .51" wider than the 295's. Now IF YOU are using a Nitto 295 and are rubbing where as "most" have a 305 and are not rubbing, you must ask yourself why are your half inch smaller width tires rubbing and others who are running bigger aren't? While yes there are building variances in cars, a half an inch out of dimensional spec would equate to this/that car being scrapped. That would be one hell of a F-up on both the manufacturer and the person who welded the rim. You are correct in your earlier statement about sidewall construction and deflection will/would play into this rubbing issue. None of us are tire engineers(that I know of) that would be able to make an exact reasoning on why some tires rub and others don't. All we can do is trial and error as most have done since the MM first came out to see what works and what doesn't.
I guess I'm in a favorable position to see Mikes shock mode when the time comes for me to go to a 295 or 305.
NT555
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=520 border=0><TBODY><TR bgColor=#f2f2f2><TD align=middle>*295/45 ZR18 112W</TD><TD align=middle>10.8</TD><TD align=middle>28.31</TD><TD align=middle>11.54</TD><TD align=middle>9.5-(10.0)-11.0</TD><TD align=middle>2469@50</TD><TD align=middle>734</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

NT555R
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=520 border=0><TBODY><TR bgColor=#f2f2f2><TD align=middle>305/45 R18 110V</TD><TD align=middle>6.3</TD><TD align=middle>28.78</TD><TD align=middle>12.05</TD><TD align=middle>9.5-(10.0)-11.5</TD><TD align=middle>2337@44</TD><TD align=middle>722</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

***edit*** I read your post #16 and you seem to be/are saying the same thing I am.

[Brutus]

Also the measuring rim is 10". This will have an affect vs 9.5" ,however slight.

[STLR FN]

Also the measuring rim is 10". This will have an affect vs 9.5" ,however slight.True true.... I did not take that into account mea culpa.