Torque converter drain plug - does the MM have one?

[Ozz]

Sorry, I would have put this in the 'Transmission' section but it does not look like it gets too much traffic.

So I am getting my transmission fluid changed next weekend on my MM (31k miles) and I want them to drain the torque converter. Do we have a plug on our MM's? If it matters I have an '03 300A.

I'm having a reputible transmission shop do the work and they said they do not 'back flush' the system through the converter. They believe a pan dump, pan cleaning, line/cooler purge and new filter is the best method...
Comments?

[Hotrauder]

No drain on the TC. Either their way or just dump and clean with the next 2 or 3 oil changes. Good to go. I installed the Art Carr pan, extra capacity and a DRAIN plug in the pan. Makes changes w/ oil changes easy. Good luck. Dennis

[RF Overlord]

^^^what Hotrauder said^^^

The MM has neither a torque converter drain plug nor a transmission pan drain plug. Now would be a good time to install either the OEM Ford pan that DOES have a plug, or install a universal plug, available from Summit or Jeg's. It will make future changes MUCH easier and MUCH less messy.

[jimlam56]

^^^what Hotrauder said^^^

The MM has neither a torque converter drain plug nor a transmission pan drain plug. Now would be a good time to install either the OEM Ford pan that DOES have a plug, or install a universal plug, available from Summit or Jeg's. It will make future changes MUCH easier and MUCH less messy.
How does the universal drain plug install?
Do you need to tap the transmission pan?

[RF Overlord]

How does the universal drain plug install?
Do you need to tap the transmission pan?No. The universal plug from B&M just requires you to drill a ½" hole. The factory pan locates the plug in the rear-facing part of that "sump" in the middle of the pan. That would be a good place for the universal plug as well, as it keeps the plug from being the lowest part on the pan.

[SergntMac]

The tranny flushing systems in place today do not "back flush", and what's new in fluid exchange/replacement is not a bad thing.

In a flush, the "out to cooler" fluid line from the tranny to the external cooler is intercepted before the cooler. The "out" fluid is sent to an external drain tank, and fresh fluid is sent in to the cooler from a separate supply tank, pint for pint. The engine is started and it idles in neutral or, park, using the front pump inside the tranny as the propellant for the exchange. No undue force or pressure against any tranny component, just normal everyday circulation of fluid.

Once fresh tranny fluid is seen in the "out" tank, the exchange is complete, including all fluid inside the torque converter, pan, valve body, and so on. The connections are restored and the fluid level topped off.

Most tranny systems average 17-20 quarts of fluid, and the cost is somewhere between 90 and 120 bucks. You can have the pan dropped and a fresh filter installed prior to this exchange if you wish, but I don't see that as necessary these days, maybe once in 100K miles. Tranny fluid systems are fairly well sealed off from external contaminates, and today, maintenence is a matter of maintaining a high quality fluid.

There is no way to run this backwards for a "reverse" flush, and there is no strain on any components.

I have a deep pan on my #1x, and drains on both MM trannys, because every so often (maybe 5K miles) I like to drain the pan and top off the fluid. This doesn't replace all of the fluid, but it helps maintain quality between flushes. I've replaced my filter once in the #1x when I installed the deep pan, and I plan to change the filter in my #3 MM at 100K. I have no tranny issues with either MM.

Just my .02C, carry on gents.

[Ozz]

OK, thanks.

I just bought a drain plug at Summitracing.com. Hopefully I can talk the transmission shop into installing it for me.

Just curious - for future reference, about how much fluid (how many quarts) will come out with just a pan drain? If not, I may cancel my appointment and do the job myself.

[RF Overlord]

Hopefully I can talk the transmission shop into installing it for me...(how many quarts) will come out with just a pan drain? If not, I may cancel my appointment and do the job myself.If you physically drop the pan and filter, it's close to 5 quarts. If you just drain the pan through the plug, it's about 4 quarts.

Dude, it's so simple...DIY. All you need do is drill one ½" hole in the rear-facing part of the "sump" in the middle of the pan.

[metroplex]

On my 2000 4R70W (Vic) and 2003 4R70W (E-250), the pan drop and filter change gets rid of exactly 4 qt. Draining the 11.25" TC results in 8 qt coming out. This is pretty much the same thing for my 1980 AOD (4 qt from pan/filter, 8 qt from TC).

Both the 2000 Vic and 2003 E-250 have sizable external ATF coolers (which do not add much in capacity).
I'm not sure how people are getting 5 qt out of a pan drop on the 4R70W unless the 4R75W is slightly different...

I have heard of a method that allows you to flush out all of the old ATF using the cooler lines, basically the trans pump is supposed to suck in the fresh ATF from the pan and push out the old ATF. The method requires adding fresh ATF as the trans pumps out the old stuff. I'm not sure how effective it is or even if it works safely.

[RF Overlord]

On my 2000 4R70W (Vic) and 2003 4R70W (E-250), the pan drop and filter change gets rid of exactly 4 qt.
I'm not sure how people are getting 5 qt out of a pan drop on the 4R70W unless the 4R75W is slightly different...

metro is correct, although one time I dropped the pan and filter on a friend's CVPI and it took slightly more than the 4 quarts I had on hand, so I always tell people to get an extra, just to be sure there's enough.

[O's Fan Rich]

The tranny flushing systems in place today do not "back flush", and what's new in fluid exchange/replacement is not a bad thing.

In a flush, the "out to cooler" fluid line from the tranny to the external cooler is intercepted before the cooler. The "out" fluid is sent to an external drain tank, and fresh fluid is sent in to the cooler from a separate supply tank, pint for pint. The engine is started and it idles in neutral or, park, using the front pump inside the tranny as the propellant for the exchange. No undue force or pressure against any tranny component, just normal everyday circulation of fluid.

Once fresh tranny fluid is seen in the "out" tank, the exchange is complete, including all fluid inside the torque converter, pan, valve body, and so on. The connections are restored and the fluid level topped off.

Most tranny systems average 17-20 quarts of fluid, and the cost is somewhere between 90 and 120 bucks. You can have the pan dropped and a fresh filter installed prior to this exchange if you wish, but I don't see that as necessary these days, maybe once in 100K miles. Tranny fluid systems are fairly well sealed off from external contaminates, and today, maintenence is a matter of maintaining a high quality fluid.

There is no way to run this backwards for a "reverse" flush, and there is no strain on any components.



Just my .02C, carry on gents.


I've had this done twice on mine, 18k and 42k. $125.00 each time at Haldeman Ford L/M.

[Ozz]

RF Overlord,
I can easily do the fluid and filter change myself but instead of dealing with the (potential) mess this first time, I am going to have a pro do it. I will talk them in to adding the plug while the pan is off. If they won't do it then I will either take the tools with me to do it myself or cancel the appointment. I'll call them once I have the plug I ordered from Summit in hand.

Thanks for the replies.

[rumble]

^^^what Hotrauder said^^^
Now would be a good time to install either the OEM Ford pan that DOES have a plug,.

Can you give me the part number for this?
Thanks,
Gary

[RF Overlord]

p/n F8UZ-7A194-AA, used on 1998-2004 E-250 Econoline vans delivered to U-Haul.

[Marauder2005]

On my 2000 4R70W (Vic) and 2003 4R70W (E-250), the pan drop and filter change gets rid of exactly 4 qt. Draining the 11.25" TC results in 8 qt coming out. This is pretty much the same thing for my 1980 AOD (4 qt from pan/filter, 8 qt from TC).

Both the 2000 Vic and 2003 E-250 have sizable external ATF coolers (which do not add much in capacity).
I'm not sure how people are getting 5 qt out of a pan drop on the 4R70W unless the 4R75W is slightly different...

I have heard of a method that allows you to flush out all of the old ATF using the cooler lines, basically the trans pump is supposed to suck in the fresh ATF from the pan and push out the old ATF. The method requires adding fresh ATF as the trans pumps out the old stuff. I'm not sure how effective it is or even if it works safely.


Metro, you still have that Vic? Is it still yellow from when it was a Taxi?

[sfsv]

FYI Ford makes a Transmission Fluid In-Line Filter Kit (XC3Z-7B155-AA) that gets installed when ever a transmission is overhauled or replaced under warranty. It actually gets installed in the fluid cooler return line (transmission fluid flow coming out of the fluid cooler going into the transmission). It is designed to catch any remaining contamination from a trans failure. It is required to be installed when ever a Ford reman. trans is installed under warranty. It is also recommended that the trans cooler gets replaced when ever there is a transmission failure that has fluid contamination.
On our 98 & up panthers you cannot use a trans flush machine that BACK FLUSHES as per Ford TSB 03-14-8, because of the trans cooler design. Doing a fluid exchange is the best way to service your transmission and I wouldn't recommend installing a drain plug, because if it leaks it could caused a trans failure that would not be covered by warranty.
FYI Ford no longer uses disposal paper media base trans filters in 98 & up panthers, they actually have metal strainers that you clean with brake fluid when the trans pan is off, if you decide against the fluid exchange method.

[metroplex]

The dozen or so 4R70W filters I bought in 2005 all had filtering media. The C6 uses a filter that has a strain on it.

[SergntMac]

I have heard of a method that allows you to flush out all of the old ATF using the cooler lines, basically the trans pump is supposed to suck in the fresh ATF from the pan and push out the old ATF. The method requires adding fresh ATF as the trans pumps out the old stuff. I'm not sure how effective it is or even if it works safely. Proof again, folks read from the bottom up...

Metro, take a few minutes out of your busy day and stop by any fast food oil change thingy, they all provide this service now. Ask them to explain the process and show you the equipment. This service has been available for about two years here in Chicago, and I am sure a lot of folks here at MM.Net would feel better when you stamp your seal of approval on this service. I know I will...

[Marauder2005]

Do you even flush the tranny in that thing Metro? That whinny, raspy

SOHC in your Vic can't possibly even give that tranny of yours a good

work out...

[metroplex]

First off, I never had a yellow/taxi cab Crown Vic. Second, I do not flush my 2000 4R70W. It comes with a drain plug for the 11.25" TC. I drain the TC and drop the pan. That gets out about 12 qt with a filter change.

The 2003 E-250's 4R70W does not have a TC drain plug. I will be attempting the method I listed in a post above.

[Shora]

The tranny flushing systems in place today do not "back flush", and what's new in fluid exchange/replacement is not a bad thing.

In a flush, the "out to cooler" fluid line from the tranny to the external cooler is intercepted before the cooler. The "out" fluid is sent to an external drain tank, and fresh fluid is sent in to the cooler from a separate supply tank, pint for pint. The engine is started and it idles in neutral or, park, using the front pump inside the tranny as the propellant for the exchange. No undue force or pressure against any tranny component, just normal everyday circulation of fluid.

Once fresh tranny fluid is seen in the "out" tank, the exchange is complete, including all fluid inside the torque converter, pan, valve body, and so on. The connections are restored and the fluid level topped off.

Most tranny systems average 17-20 quarts of fluid, and the cost is somewhere between 90 and 120 bucks. You can have the pan dropped and a fresh filter installed prior to this exchange if you wish, but I don't see that as necessary these days, maybe once in 100K miles. Tranny fluid systems are fairly well sealed off from external contaminates, and today, maintenence is a matter of maintaining a high quality fluid.

There is no way to run this backwards for a "reverse" flush, and there is no strain on any components.

I have a deep pan on my #1x, and drains on both MM trannys, because every so often (maybe 5K miles) I like to drain the pan and top off the fluid. This doesn't replace all of the fluid, but it helps maintain quality between flushes. I've replaced my filter once in the #1x when I installed the deep pan, and I plan to change the filter in my #3 MM at 100K. I have no tranny issues with either MM.

Just my .02C, carry on gents.

I was not aware of how these flushes work. Do all dealers (Mercury) use the same system or should I ask for a specific type of service (flush, fluid exchange, etc.) when I go in next month for my service. I will have them install my new Ford pan (used on e-250s) with a built in drain plug and change the filter.

Also, when I begin to drain the pan every other oil change (6,000 miles) what is the best method to filling it back. I know to add 6 quarts when I dump my oil but exactly how much should I to my tranny? Should I add some when the car is off and tap it off when with car on in normal operating temp?

Your posts always have so much detail. Thanks!

[RF Overlord]

FYI Ford no longer uses disposal paper media base trans filters in 98 & up panthers, they actually have metal strainers that you clean with brake fluidUm, the filter I took off my 2003 Marauder was a paper media and so is the Motorcraft FT-105 filter I just bought to do a friend's transmission...where are these metal strainers located?

[SergntMac]

I was not aware of how these flushes work. Do all dealers (Mercury) use the same system or should I ask for a specific type of service (flush, fluid exchange, etc.) when I go in next month for my service. I will have them install my new Ford pan (used on e-250s) with a built in drain plug and change the filter.

Also, when I begin to drain the pan every other oil change (6,000 miles) what is the best method to filling it back. I know to add 6 quarts when I dump my oil but exactly how much should I to my tranny? Should I add some when the car is off and tap it off when with car on in normal operating temp?

Your posts always have so much detail. Thanks! All the flush systems I have encountered have been rather generic. Two holding tanks, two 3/8" hoses, and a set of junctions. Prolly a hundred bucks in hardware, and a no brainer process. Call it a flush, or, a fluid exchange, you won't be misunderstood.

With respect to fluid drain via the new pan, try to measure what comes out, and replace that quanity first, via the dip stick tube. Then let the engine warm up and idle in neutral or park. You may want to gently move the gear selector from reverse to drive a few times to operate the valve body.

Once the tranny fluid is hot, check it the same way you usually check it, and top off if necessary. Remember, tranny fluid expands when hot, and if you overfill the tranny cold, it won't cause any harm, however, it will spill out via the vent on the top of the tranny and when this stuff hits hot pipes, yuck...

[Shora]

All the flush systems I have encountered have been rather generic. Two holding tanks, two 3/8" hoses, and a set of junctions. Prolly a hundred bucks in hardware, and a no brainer process. Call it a flush, or, a fluid exchange, you won't be misunderstood.

With respect to fluid drain via the new pan, try to measure what comes out, and replace that quanity first, via the dip stick tube. Then let the engine warm up and idle in neutral or park. You may want to gently move the gear selector from reverse to drive a few times to operate the valve body.

Once the tranny fluid is hot, check it the same way you usually check it, and top off if necessary. Remember, tranny fluid expands when hot, and if you overfill the tranny cold, it won't cause any harm, however, it will spill out via the vent on the top of the tranny and when this stuff hits hot pipes, yuck...

Thanks again. :)

[RF Overlord]

^^^what Mac said^^^

Doing a pan-drop and changing the filter will drain just about 4 quarts, maybe a little more. Draining the pan via a drain plug will remove just under 4 quarts. Refill by adding 3 quarts back in through the dipstick tube. Start the motor and run the shifter through all the positions, pausing briefly at each. Check the ATF level with the engine running, shifter in park. It should read somewhere on the stick. Drive the car until it reaches normal operating temp, then recheck the level as above. Add only enough ATF to put the level somewhere in the crosshatched area. DO NOT bring the level to the Full or Max mark at this time. ATF expands as it gets hot, and you need to leave room for this. With the transmission at normal operating temp, a reading anywhere within the crosshatched area is considered correct.

[Frank Androski]

:argue: :argue:
p/n F8UZ-7A194-AA, used on 1998-2004 E-250 Econoline vans delivered to U-Haul.
PAID 34,528 JUNE 2002 A sucker born every minute. had to be the first!.

[Shora]

:argue: :argue:
PAID 34,528 JUNE 2002 A sucker born every minute. had to be the first!.

Is that what you paid for the van? If yes, what does that have to do with the pan part number?

[metroplex]

Is that what you paid for the van? If yes, what does that have to do with the pan part number?

I think he meant the Marauder.