Ford to stop T-Bird [Archive] - MercuryMarauder.net Forums

TAF

04-22-2003, 05:36 PM

Originally posted by LincMercLover
Umm... you didn't know this? Sigh... gotta help the slow, AGAIN? :lol:

I believe it was to go bye bye in 2005 and return in 2007?

I knew that...just thought the following statement was interesting "A Ford executive says it would be wrong to keep building the car, eroding its value."

Just wondering how many MM's are out there. How many silvers will be made. Original #s were for first year sales to be 18k. Our best guess is 6k as a likely number. Just wondering...

RF Overlord

04-22-2003, 05:36 PM

Originally posted by chapel1
I like the look but thought it could have been more powerful.And seemed as though Ford did'nt try to sell the T-bird.

Does any of that sound REMOTELY familiar?!

I, for one, liked the "new" T-bird...except I could never fit in it...would have bought one, except the local dealers wanted $5,000 over MSRP...so I lost interest...then the "Blackbird" came along... :D :D :D

WolfeBros

04-22-2003, 06:05 PM

Local dealers in Dallas were getting up to $10K over sticker.
One of these days they will figure out that raping their customers does come back to haunt them. They can choke on the one's sitting on their lots now. And I personally hope that they do.

FoMoCo you had a car customers wanted to buy. Financing terms were attractive......you screwed everyone that walked in the door to buy one.

In the Marauder you had a car people would have bought as well.
Lack of advertising and knowledgable sales people helped do this car in too. I for one don't get it. RIP

chrtra1

04-22-2003, 06:23 PM

Originally posted by chapel1
Chris what makes you hate the T-Bird?Interested in what about you hate?
I like the look but thought it could have been more powerful.And seemed as though Ford did'nt try to sell the T-bird.

Well first of all I don't fit in it. I can put the seat all the way back, and all the way down and my head still touches the roof and my knees hit the dash and steering wheel. It's definately made to be a womans car, because no one over 5'10 can fit comfortably inside.

Second, the things are a real PITA to work on. I groan everytime I see one in the drive, because I know I'll be chasing some noise or squeek. Seems people can't understand why a car with no top isn't as quiet as their 100K BMW. I have yet to meet a satisfied T-bird owner.

Third, it's an ill handling, underpowered, poor excuse for a "sports car".

Other than that it's kind of a cool car. :)

WolfeBros

04-22-2003, 06:36 PM

Junior member my arse......this guy should get senior status now.
:up:

LincMercLover

04-22-2003, 07:43 PM

TAF, It is an obsurd comment from a Ford exec., but what'd ya expect? Seems to be the trend lately, huh? And anyway, you're still SSSLLLOOOWWW... :D :flamer:

TAF

04-23-2003, 02:38 AM

Originally posted by LincMercLover
And anyway, you're still SSSLLLOOOWWW... :D :flammer:

And, when you get another 20 years or so under your belt...you'll find that the ladies prefer it that way....;)

JohnnyB

04-23-2003, 04:10 AM

You could have picked up a new 1997 T-Bird LX sport for under $20,000. V-8, performance package, spoiler, ... not a bad car. (my father has one) The new T-bird was priced too high for what it was and the dealers adding $5,000 over sticker didn't help.

Apparently Ford marketing dep't screwed up............ again.

prchrman

04-23-2003, 04:49 AM

Bad TAF...Bad TAF...sit...

Slowpoke

04-23-2003, 05:49 AM

I had a blue T-bird (71or 72, i think) when i was in college. It had a 455 engine and an incredible back seat - remember those tiny oval opera windows?! I have very fond memories - thanks to the many women of my life before Mrs. poke - and no-one, but no-one can mess with the memories I have thanks to my old T-bird.

NYSP618

04-23-2003, 06:09 AM

Hey Poke, How many brain cells did you kill in college that you can't remember what year your car was?

:) :flamer:

jerrym3

04-23-2003, 07:08 AM

Now that the TBird pricing has come WAY down, I'm very interested. (I'm only 5'10", so I fit. I have a 94 4.6 LX with 103,000 miles and, except for a screwed up trans, it's been a great car and still looks good-black/tan; spoiler; 16" TSW Imola wheels)

Local dealer (leftover 2002) has a $34,353 sale sign on the car with a $39,7xx MSRP, and that's before the Ford A-X discount plans.

2003s are now going for a few hundred over cost, but no Ford discount plan (yet).

The car has received better than expected reviews, as long as one was willing to accept the car for what it is-a boulevard cruiser, not a Porche, BMW, or Corvette. Major negative; very limited trunk.

But the initial interest died when the dealers decided to add thousands to the MSRP.

When will dealers realize that if any car is really worth more than the MSRP, the manufacturer would have used that price (as the MSRP) instead of letting the dealers grab extra profit?

Same with the original MMs and the 3-5K markups.

It's fine to make a decent profit, but raping the customer can lead to negative results and the demise of a potentially great car.

prchrman

04-23-2003, 07:39 AM

Poke...Tbird-455ci?...untaxed mind altering substances maybe...

LincMercLover

04-23-2003, 07:45 AM

Jerry, I've got a 93 Cougar I'll sell ya, CHEAP! ;)

WolfeBros

04-23-2003, 07:59 AM

Originally posted by prchrman
Poke...Tbird-455ci?...untaxed mind altering substances maybe...

Poke is closer than you might think.

1971 Tbird came with the 429
1972 Tbird came with either the 429 or 460

What is interesting is the HP differences.
1971 429 was good for 360 bhp
1972 429 was good for 212 bhp
1972 460 was good for 224 bhp

The 1972 cars were pigs weighing in at over 4400 pounds with those horsepower ratings....

Easy to do***ent when the insurance companies & manufacturers wanted to kill off the fast cars.

jerrym3

04-23-2003, 08:03 AM

No thanks, LincMercLover, but I've got a nice 94 TBird that could be available at a great price. And, since I personally perform all oil changes, the car has had 34 oil and filter changes, guarenteed, and the trans has just been rebuilt.

(Never saw an oil filter in a more stupid spot on a Ford than on the TBird.)

Bigdogjim

04-23-2003, 08:14 AM

Originally posted by RF Overlord
Does any of that sound REMOTELY familiar?!

I, for one, liked the "new" T-bird...except I could never fit in it...would have bought one, except the local dealers wanted $5,000 over MSRP...so I lost interest...then the "Blackbird" came along... :D :D :D
I know the feeling:alone: I did drive a T-Bird when they first came out. The problem was my F-150 had more guts:help:
They they did the MM project and at least I can get in it :beer:
Big Dog

prchrman

04-23-2003, 08:48 AM

Wolfbro quote:
Poke is closer than you might think.

1971 Tbird came with the 429
1972 Tbird came with either the 429 or 460

What is interesting is the HP differences.
1971 429 was good for 360 bhp
1972 429 was good for 212 bhp
1972 460 was good for 224 bhp

The 1972 cars were pigs weighing in at over 4400 pounds with those horsepower ratings....
---------------------------------------------------------------
But neither had a 455 (ie buick, pontiac etc)
I have owned 69,70 and 71 429 and 460s. also owned a 72 and 75 460. All these were in Tbirds and LTDs and Mark IIIs and Mark IVs...so no noticable weight differences...none of the above were modified... the 72 Mark was by far and away the fastest of the five vehicles...would literally melt the tires off...the difference in the hp is usually attributed the lower compression and a difference in the way the hp test was taken (not sure of the difference) between 71 and 72...the real thing that moves heavy cars is the torque...torque I believe that did not change as much as the hp readings...

RF Overlord

04-23-2003, 08:57 AM

Prior to 1972, cars were spec'd with "gross" HP, which was the raw output of the motor at the flywheel, with NO accessories...no P/S pump, no A/C, no alternator...In 1972, manufacturers were forced to change to a "net" HP rating which included all the "accessories" and was at the output of the transmission.

So the ratings pre-and post- 1972 are not directly comparable, plus there were additional emissions-related changes which did sap some HP from the motors...mostly AIR pumps and inefficient catalytic converters...

WolfeBros

04-23-2003, 09:01 AM

Originally posted by prchrman
But neither had a 455 (ie buick, pontiac etc)

He was trying to remember an engine from 31 years ago.
I cut him some slack and knew he was in the right ballpark with the 460. I don't think anyone thought that he meant it had a GM 455 in it. :rolleyes:

WolfeBros

04-23-2003, 09:17 AM

Originally posted by RF Overlord
...In 1972, manufacturers were forced to change to a "net" HP rating which included all the "accessories" and was at the output of the transmission.

Thanks RF......I couldn't remember the exact year when that came about. It sure shows why the numbers changed so dramatically between 71 & 72. It also helps to make my point about them being pigs at that weight/hp ratio. As we all know its the HP & TQ at the rear wheels that makes em go fast. At the flywheel with no parasitic losses makes good numbers for the marketing types. :D

I was turning wrenches for a living back then. I remember those big Ford engines well and it definitely was the beginning of the end of the muscle cars.

jerrym3

04-23-2003, 10:38 AM

Ford engines

I bought a brand new 1972 Ford LTD Broughm, ginger glow (dark metallic brown) with a dealer added tan vinyl top (didn't like the factory dark brown vinyl top) with a 400-2 barrel carb, 3:27 rear.

Car was a little sluggish off the line, but the 1-2 shift was great and resulted in swift kick in the ***.

Gorgeous interior, for a non-bucket seat car. Had that shiny, non vinyl cloth with high back seats. Also had an 8 track tape player.

I believe the HP was rated at 164.

A friend of mine back then (an Olds fanatic) bought one of the last Hurst Olds with a 455 engine. (1973 maybe?) Kept it under wraps. Car probably has about 20,000 miles on it, if he still has it.

Channel hopping last night, and I could swear that one of the early evening game shows (where you spin the wheel and Vanna turns over a letter) was showing cars that were available to the winner, and an MM was right out in front of a bunch of Ford vehicles.

prchrman

04-23-2003, 10:42 AM

wolfebro...
He was trying to remember an engine from 31 years ago.
I cut him some slack and knew he was in the right ballpark with the 460. I don't think anyone thought that he meant it had a GM 455 in it
---------------
JK pokeman...no harm intended...:up:

sep10

04-23-2003, 10:46 AM

Anybody remember " Grosse Pointe Myopians" - an article in Car&Driver [poss by Brock Yates] some years back ?? Ford still affected even today. Cougar. Contour. Blackwood. Where is 2-door Taurus SHO ?? They just do NOT get it in "Detriot". Ford has Premier Group out here in Irvine [ Stepford II ] CA. Guess percent of imports that Ford folks parked in that lot last summer ? 25% min by my admittedly non-scientific count.

DLoreanMARAUDER

04-23-2003, 11:49 AM

Originally posted by LincMercLover
Umm... you didn't know this? Sigh... gotta help the slow, AGAIN? :lol:

I believe it was to go bye bye in 2005 and return in 2007?

I heard thats what (Ford/Mercury) are gonna try with the Marauder? anybody else hear this?

Bigdogjim

04-23-2003, 12:50 PM

T-Bird was a 4 year run started in '02 should be around till '06. We all know how the news types do things????
Ford people I spoke today 4/27 have not heard any thing.
Big Dog

jerrym3

04-23-2003, 12:53 PM

Considering "classic" potential 20 years from now, a yellow or TBird blue 2002 TBird could be worth some bucks, as these were one year colors.

Local dealer has 2 black and 4 TBird blue 2002s in stock.

Slowpoke

04-23-2003, 01:27 PM

yep - it was a 1972 and had a 460 in it - i am not sure why i could not remember - but as i think back i remember that it had 460 written on the air filter cover.

chapel1

04-23-2003, 06:35 PM

Thanks,Chris.It's the wrench-mans view I was most interested in.I wish Ford would back thier price with some more manufacturing quality?
P.S. My first car was a" 60" Thunderbird.It was a cool car with power seats and windows.