Kenne Bell Supercharged Marauder

[DEFYANT]

Does anyone know this car or the details?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Mercury-Grand-Marquis-Marauder-2003-Mercury-Marauder-SUPERCHARGED-ONLY-5K-MILES_W0QQitemZ4632486416QQcat egoryZ6340QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[Rider90]

*Drool*

Could have atleast cleaned the interior better, or even under the hood when it comes to selling...

[bigslim]

I don't like the packaging (blower set up) under the hood. Reminds of when I see some Impallas all built up. I agree that it should have been clean before the pictures.

[Vortech347]

KB's are SEXY. I'd love that car. To bad the damn paint will fall off.

[mpearce]

The Trilogy blower looks bigger IMO. That blower looks small to me. Not that impressed.

-Mat

[jdando]

I think it is the second time around for that thing. If I recall it is not intercooled. I could be wrong about that.

I think this is the thread I was thinking off
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=21476&highlight=%22kenne+bell%22+eba y

Is it the same car??


jeremy

[MikesMerc]

Whether or not you like the KB look, the real issue with this set up is that it is not intercooled.

Positive displacement blowers especially suck without intercooling. They make more boost down low, but they make more heat as well. The set up on this car is virtually useless. You have to pull so much timing out to prevent detonation from the heat power gains are minimal.

SC without intercooling = :puke:

[MarauderMark]

I saw a commercial once about kenne bell's Marauder and the car took off i was hooked(besides the write up in hotrod mag).
I wonder what the hp/tq numbers are on it?

[KillJoy]

Cleaner would be better.

And, yeah. That blower looks tiny.

KillJoy

[Zack]

Cleaner would be better.

And, yeah. That blower looks tiny.

KillJoy

That tiny blower will have any eaton for lunch, period.

[SID210SA]

There is something different in the engine compartment.....It just looks out of place to have the air intake on that side.

[DEFYANT]

That tiny blower will have any eaton for lunch, period.

Ok, before this become another closed supercharger thread, can anyone answer my original question?

I did not ask why Eatons are better or who's eating who for lunch.

Zack, do you know more about the car?
:confused:

[grampaws]

The Trilogy Looks a lot nicer..and no intercooler ...
The air cleaner looks like an afterthought..
dissappointed with the overall appearance

[RF Overlord]

If I'm not mistaken, that Kenne Bell blower is a twin-screw type, not a Roots like the Eaton we have. In a twin-screw, the compression is done inside the blower housing rather than in the manifold as with the Eaton. A twin-screw (also called a Lysholm) produces less heat than a Roots supercharger. In fact, it is almost as thermally efficient as a centrifugal, therefore an intercooler isn't strictly necessary.

[Breadfan]

Not stirring the pot, just posting some factual links about the twin screw design: http://www.superchargersonline.com/content.asp?id=20

Also, the Eaton, while a roots blower, takes a bit of the twin screw design in that the rotors are twisted - not as much as a twin screw but the idea is similar.

The twin-screw looks like a very efficient design. I still would want an intercooler on any boosted applicaton - if you're going as far as putting a blower on, might as well take the extra few steps to intercool it.

The biggest concern I have, while I like the design, I hear the twin screws are very quiet. NOOOOO!!! :D :D

I do agree with many of the statements, that install doesn't look all that clean. The intake hose that runs to the EGR or PCV system that runs under the blower snout looks like an afterthought as well.

Oh, and if it's so special, why is it so dirty?

[Smokie]

Here is some info, makes worthwhile reading:TWIN_VS_ROOTS (http://www.kennebell.net/techinfo/general-info/twinscrew-vs-roots-fromcatalog.pdf)

[TooManyFords]

I just took a peek at the Kenne Bell propaganda... Why were all the tests run at 12000 RPM?? How about a more realistic test of, say, 6000-7000 RPM?

Could it be that the results were not all that different at real-world speeds?

Makes you think, eh?

John

[Smokie]

I just took a peek at the Kenne Bell propaganda... Why were all the tests run at 12000 RPM?? How about a more realistic test of, say, 6000-7000 RPM?

Could it be that the results were not all that different at real-world speeds?

Makes you think, eh?

John

John that's 12,000 blower rpms. The usual ratio between crank and blower pulley is 3 to 1, so the engine is doing about 4k, we do that at WOT.:)

[TooManyFords]

Ah... I see. That's why my GMC 6-71 runs so much cooler because it is run 10% underdriven from the crank. I wonder if KB tested against mine?

John

[SergntMac]

My random .02C...

Want to know why the engine bay look like *****? Look in the background of the pics. Colorado. Horse Ranch? Hell, look at the dust bowl next to the car.

If a twin screw isn't superior to a Roots, why are so many Cobra and Lightning owners upgrading to twin screw kits? How can there be an upgrad kit, without it being even slightly better? Isn't it like a 70-80 RWHP gain?

[SergntMac]

The twin-screw looks like a very efficient design. I still would want an intercooler on any boosted applicaton - if you're going as far as putting a blower on, might as well take the extra few steps to intercool it.
Go you one better...Anytime I can add chilled air to any application, supercharged, or, not, I'm in.

[Breadfan]

Go you one better...Anytime I can add chilled air to any application, supercharged, or, not, I'm in.
True! Cooler intake are = denser intake charge = good.

As for the twin-screw, from what I have read the twin screw IS a more efficient design. I've also heard Kenne Belle has a lock on the specific blower they use - I heard only they can sell it. Aside from that I think Whipple is the only other maker of a twin screw.

Is that true or just rumor mill?

[Zack]

Bolt a Kenne Bell to a Cobra with an exhaust system and you make 600 to the wheels. And you can do it with a mail order tune.
Guess Kenne Bells fit under the hood.

[bigslim]

True! Cooler intake are = denser intake charge = good.

As for the twin-screw, from what I have read the twin screw IS a more efficient design. I've also heard Kenne Belle has a lock on the specific blower they use - I heard only they can sell it. Aside from that I think Whipple is the only other maker of a twin screw.

Is that true or just rumor mill?
Lyshom makes twin screw blowers.

[Zack]

Lets say Jerry Barnes or MikesMerc were to bolt a Kenne Bell on their car in place of the Eaton.
They could throw their Nitrous in the trash and run 10's.
For about 3500 bucks, that is the route Id be going.

[DEFYANT]

Lets say Jerry Barnes or MikesMerc were to bolt a Kenne Bell on their car in place of the Eaton.
They could throw their Nitrous in the trash and run 10's.
For about 3500 bucks, that is the route Id be going.

At what boost level?

[Zack]

At what boost level?
They have forged motors, Id throw 20 pounds at it.

[TooManyFords]

There is an '03 Cobra at our local track that is running a KB with about 22 psi and his car ran a 9.002 on nitto drag radials. The car looked absolutely stock on the outside and that was just with the KB kit.

That car FLEW!

john

[GarageMahal]

Here is some info, makes worthwhile reading:TWIN_VS_ROOTS (http://www.kennebell.net/techinfo/general-info/twinscrew-vs-roots-fromcatalog.pdf)

Good read, thanks for the link.

I "remember" (probably from a dream) hearing Jerry say something about Trilogy working on a twin screw design. If that came out I would probably have to spend the money (assuming it was affordable). I am not out to set any records but it appears to be a very efficient way to provide 7 to 10 psi of boost to an otherwise stock engine.

jta

[bigslim]

Good read, thanks for the link.

I "remember" (probably from a dream) hearing Jerry say something about Trilogy working on a twin screw design. If that came out I would probably have to spend the money (assuming it was affordable). I am not out to set any records but it appears to be a very efficient way to provide 7 to 10 psi of boost to an otherwise stock engine.

jta
Jerry will be offering a twin screw later.

[martyo]

One of the members here custom fabbed his own Kenne Bell set up. Look ed real clean.

I haven't heard from him (Jeff) in a while. I hope he is busy with his machine shop and making a lot of money!

[Joe Walsh]

Jerry will be offering a twin screw later.

Yep, This is EXACTLY what I want, and I will wait for it to become a reality.

The best of both worlds....
Instant low rpm BIG BLOCK Torque, great efficiencies, a bypass valve for perfect everyday manners, and an increase in boost all the way to redline!:banana2:

OK...I nixed the 'gradual' comment....

[MikesMerc]

Lets say Jerry Barnes or MikesMerc were to bolt a Kenne Bell on their car in place of the Eaton.
They could throw their Nitrous in the trash and run 10's.
For about 3500 bucks, that is the route Id be going.

As soon as Jerry gets the Lysholm conversion kit done, this is exactly what I'll be doing :) Trilogy is now officially both an Eaton and Lysholm shop.


BTW, the decision is NOT just as simple as saying "why bother with the eaton when I can bolt on a lysholm." Nothing could be further from the truth.

For STREET applications, the eaton is still the best choice. It produces more boost at lower rpms and plenty enough boost for the street. The eaton carries a phenominal 100,000 mile warranty and has been found to be more reliable in OEM applications. Packaging considerations are also favored by the eaton. (Bottom line, think of all the reasons the OEMs have gone with the Eaton).

For RACING, the lysholm twin screw roxors! It gives up a little on the bottom end, but makes huge boost on the big end.

With the Lysholm comes a whole arena of other issues as well. First off, fuel issues. When your making that kind of boost you may very well need more than what the stock kit T kit comes with. Second, is a tricky by-pass development. Unlike the Eatons that have a built in by pass, the lysholms need a by-pass designed in at the kit level. Last, you are wasting your money and low end sacrifices on a lysholm if you don't crank up the boost. To do that, you better have a forged lower end.

Bottom line is that the lysholm is just a more serious peice. But, you need all the supporting goodies to go with it. Just plunking a lysholm into a T Kit without addressing other concerns is not the way to get your money's worth.

BTW, a lysholm without an intercooler GARBAGE. Regardless if they are more efficient than the roots, they are JUNK without an intercooler. The first Kenne Bell Mustang kits that came out without a by pass and inter cooler sucked azz...badly. Still way too much heat. I know from personal experience. Now, the newer kits have an inter cooler and by pass, and they rock. Any twin screw marauder without an intercooler and bypass is JUNK.

[Zack]

Yep, This is EXACTLY what I want, and I will wait for it to become a reality.

The best of both worlds....
Instant low rpm BIG BLOCK Torque, great efficiencies, a bypass valve for perfect everyday manners, and a gradual increase in boost all the way to redline!:banana2:

Dude, you bolded increase, whats up with that?

Its instant on, full boost as soon as you mash the throttle.

[Joe Walsh]

Dude, you bolded increase, whats up with that?

Its instant on, full boost as soon as you mash the throttle.


Not really, the twin screw does give you boost immediately, but not maximum boost.

I was making a point as to why I like the twin screw S/C.

The Eaton is an excellent S/C and works great with the Marauder, it achieves maximum boost sooner than a twin screw (@3000 rpm) but then slowly looses boost from 3000 rpm up.

The Twin Screw builds boost...it does not achieve maximum boost until @4000 rpm then holds that maximum boost all the way out to 6500 rpm.

[Zack]

Ill go along with that, but definitely not GRADUAL increase in boost.

[AzMarauder]

There is an '03 Cobra at our local track that is running a KB with about 22 psi and his car ran a 9.002 on nitto drag radials. The car looked absolutely stock on the outside and that was just with the KB kit.

That car FLEW!

john

I have had two friends that did the K/B on their Cobras. Made a significant difference over the OEM Eaton. However, pushing over 600 HP they were running race gas and the driveability isn't as nice as one might like. However, the K/B is clearly a superior blower than the Eaton.

[AzMarauder]

Jerry will be offering a twin screw later.

Ah.. now if I can an exchange credit on my current Eaton !:rolleyes:

[MikesMerc]

Ah.. now if I can an exchange credit on my current Eaton !:rolleyes:

LOL...I asked him about this too! He doesn't have an answer yet though I doubt he'll be able to do this. He simply doesn't have a market for the used eatons.

The real issue is the packaging changes to convert to the lysholm. Your looking at a completely redesigned the mounting plate (where the blower sits atop the intake with the intercooler inside), completely redone intlet tooling with a new integrated by pass (as the lysholms don't have a built in by-pass like the eatons), snout length and belt drive issues, and the fact that the lysholm is a taller blower meaning possible problems with hood clearance.

Then of course all the issues that go with making serious boost (fuel, tuning, and a lower end that can handle it).

I say all this as Jerry and I have talked this over quite bit. He's definitely going to try to offer the conversion kit, but everyone needs to undertstand that it won't be cheap, and it isn't for the faint of heart. Its definitely going to be for the serious racers who are willing to do all that is needed to support a race blower.

[Smokie]

Before I consider a change, I need to find out what is the best that my stock Trilogy set-up can offer, last night in less than ideal weather I ran 12.7's on base T-Kit and street radials, it was hot. This may sound crazy but I believe with cold air 12.6 is possible with my current set-up.:)

Yeah, I know, it's not that fast. But I am always looking for fastest on least amount of change.

[MikesMerc]

Smokie,

No matter how you slice it, my friend, 12.7s in a 4400lb car IS fast!! Very fast! To be honest, any real street car that can run in the 12s is fast and a force to be reckoned with.

Congrats on the new personal best! Getting deep into the 12s is simply awesome with a Marauder.

Frankly, I'm quite sure that most folks are going to be quite happy just running the Eaton Trilogy Kit. It fits the car perfectly and offers OEM style performance, fit, finish, and reliablility. A lysholm upgrade will be overkill for most folks. I'm thinking of making the swap because that is the direction I already went with the car...more of a racer. But, IMO, the vast majority of folks that really love the OEMish feel to the Trilogy kit are going to remain very satisfied with the Eaton. Going with the lysholm will be going down a much more racing oriented path and one that requires more $$$ than most folks want to spend for racetrack only performance (cause your not going to see the benefit of the lysholm over the roots on the street at all unless you're and insane person). Many won't want to give up the better low end grunt of the roots for the street either.

Congrats again on the new record!

[Smokie]

Smokie,

No matter how you slice it, my friend, 12.7s in a 4400lb car IS fast!! Very fast! To be honest, any real street car that can run in the 12s is fast and a force to be reckoned with.

Congrats on the new personal best! Getting deep into the 12s is simply awesome with a Marauder.

Frankly, I'm quite sure that most folks are going to be quite happy just running the Eaton Trilogy Kit. It fits the car perfectly and offers OEM style performance, fit, finish, and reliablility. A lysholm upgrade will be overkill for most folks. I'm thinking of making the swap because that is the direction I already went with the car...more of a racer. But, IMO, the vast majority of folks that really love the OEMish feel to the Trilogy kit are going to remain very satisfied with the Eaton. Going with the lysholm will be going down a much more racing oriented path and one that requires more $$$ than most folks want to spend for racetrack only performance (cause your not going to see the benefit of the lysholm over the roots on the street at all unless you're and insane person). Many won't want to give up the better low end grunt of the roots for the street either.

Congrats again on the new record!

Thanks Mike, I apreciate the kind words, I watch with keen interest those folks who trailblaze and share with us. I don't rule out future changes, but I am having so much fun right now with a set-up that seems not peaked yet, look forward to your adventures as you make the transition to the twin screw set-up.:)