Illegal Hid Head Light Conversions

[Dennis Reinhart]

I just wanted the members to know that converting a filament head light system to HID bulbs is 50 State illegal.

I found this out today trying to help the Mark 8 members in a affordable upgrade because there head lights on the 1993/1996 Mark 8 are so bad, in 1996 they did offer a HID upgrade OEM but these have gone out of stock and cost 1400.00 so I was researching installing a HID bulb in the low beam socket but, HID bulbs are illegal if they are not DOT approved, so I just wanted the members to know the facts. I am still trying to come up with a idea for the Mark 8 club.

[TooManyFords]

Good info Dennis.

Just as a clarification then, it is NOT 50 state illegal as long as the bulbs are DOT approved. I read this as any factory replacement bulb for a car that has HID from the factory must already be DOT approved. (or how else could it pass certification, no?)

Let us know when you do find a good Projectory two-lamp setup for our cars. It would be kick-ass to have a smooth looking HID replacement.

Cheers!

John

[Dennis Reinhart]

Good info Dennis.

Just as a clarification then, it is NOT 50 state illegal as long as the bulbs are DOT approved. I read this as any factory replacement bulb for a car that has HID from the factory must already be DOT approved. (or how else could it pass certification, no?)
John


As I was told today by a company today that was shut down by this rulling if you car came with HID's then its no issue, but if your car has a fillament head light bulbs and you replace them with a HID bulbs and ballast then it has to be DOT approved and none are, so you are SOL or running illegal.

[Rider90]

Doing something illegal never stopped me from doing what I wanted to before...

[MarauderMark]

Doing something illegal never stopped me from doing what I wanted to before...
Ha ha ha well said:up::D
I was interested in this hit for my dads markVIII and couldn't seem to find it(remember)went to a couple of dealers just to find out they wanted an arm and leg for it..well it doesn't matter now as pops allmost killed himself and totaled the car in and accident because he could not see due to those crap factory headlights..

[fastblackmerc]

It's only illegal if your caught............:D

[prchrman]

Good info...Tanks Mr. R...willie

[ctrlraven]

I've been thinking about getting a HID kit for the fog lamps and head lamps but I would only get a 6000K kit because it as noticible like 8000 and 1000K kits that are plainly blue and purple looking that I've seen. I don't think LEO would hassle us too much about it seeing as here in MD their so anal about things that if your exhaust isnt stock then its illegal but LEO only go after the ricers with the super loud 5" coffee cans.

[martyo]

I hate the HIDs! This does not sadden me in teh least.

[Breadfan]

I hate the HIDs! This does not sadden me in teh least.

I think they look good from behind the wheel of the car that has them, but not one the other side. :)

One late night I was working and pulled out to go home. I wanted to romp on it, but decided to hold back. Behind me was some super bright HID's.

The guy cruised by me, it was an Acura RSX with an HID conversion. Soon as he passed me doing no more than 5 over I saw the cop light him up.

I don't think he was speeding enough to get pulled over for that, I think he got nailed for the HIDs...

BTW I was in my Mustang and he came up next to me and stayed with me like he was trying to get me to race.

I still love how that crowd ALWAYS tries to race my Mustang, it's 16 years old, completely stock, and has 199,000miles on it and somehow they're proud they're car is as fast or a tick quicker!

[DarthMarauder]

From my understanding they are not legal because when your car is equipped from the factory with HID headlights the housing for the bulb are specially designed for it cause it levels the beam when going over bumps and such. So when you get the kit and ballast the bulbs and such are going to be DOT approved but your stock headlight housing isnt DOT approved for the HID headlights. I dont know if any cop would even know what the differnce is or if he would even site you. But with the kits if you live in a place with crappy roads such as Michigan every bump and pothole you hit at night you will be looking like your flashing your highs at everyone around you and could even shine the light right at someone which could and may cause an accident.

[Bradley G]

That's only cause your car is faster than light speed!:D
I hate the HIDs! This does not sadden me in teh least.

[SergntMac]

It's only illegal if your caught...:D Ummm...No, it's only illegal when you're caught...I'm being picky, sorry.
I dont know if any cop would even know what the differnce is or if he would even site you. But with the kits if you live in a place with crappy roads such as Michigan every bump and pothole you hit at night you will be looking like your flashing your highs at everyone around you and could even shine the light right at someone which could and may cause an accident. Agreed, and herein lies the rub.

Your average street cop isn't trained in this crap, but like other things automotive/LEO related (tint, boom boxes, exhaust, cell phones), it comes to be an issue when someone with some political juice weighs in and pushes LEOs into special enforcement. Just y'all wait, it will happen, maybe it's started already. Doesn't take long for LEOs to get savy on the underground 411 either. Lots of LEOs are car guys too.

The Illinois Vehicle Code is a paperback book, 8.5X11", about 1/2" thick with very thin pages. When I worked Majors, I used to brag that there wasn't a car on the street, anywhere, that doesn't have something illegal going on, and the IVC never failed me. Of course, I wasn't that kind of pr*ck, but I made my point.

Be advised that there are special cops who get special training in everything automotive, known as Major Collision Investigators. Small departments can't afford them, but they have mutual aid agreements. Not one square inch of America doesn't have one assigned to work it.

These are the heavyweight "Kojacks" that get called out in serious multiple injury and fatal collisions, sort of an "FAA/NTSB" for automobile collisions. Just being involved in such a crash, even if you're not injured, will have them pouring over your car like it was a 747 that went down with 230 souls aboard. Every aspect, every "error" gets examined and noted, and if you have illegal HIDs, you may find yourself included as one of the "causes". If this happens to you, your car insurance will turn into a mortgage payment.

IMHO, HID just ain't worth it, and like MartyO, I have no use for this crap myself. I hate the "bouncing blue" coming at me, makes me want to pull over so the volunteer fireman can get to his fire, and I don't like being fooled.

My Silverstars are perfect for me, thank you.

Just my .02c, carry on, gents...

[hitchhiker]

It's only illegal if your caught............:D

Reminds me of politicians!

:D

[MyTMerc]

I just wanted the members to know that converting a filament head light system to HID bulbs is 50 State illegal.

I found this out today trying to help the Mark 8 members in a affordable upgrade because there head lights on the 1993/1996 Mark 8 are so bad, in 1996 they did offer a HID upgrade OEM but these have gone out of stock and cost 1400.00 so I was researching installing a HID bulb in the low beam socket but, HID bulbs are illegal if they are not DOT approved, so I just wanted the members to know the facts. I am still trying to come up with a idea for the Mark 8 club.

Dennis,
Thanks for providing the update. I read much about the HID's on the Mark VIII website. My immediate goal is just to get this nice looking car I bought to pass inspection. Until then I'll need to update my signature because it's not driving anywhere.

They couldn't even get a reading on the candle power meter on the right or left. The right headlight looked like it was fairly bright while looking at it, but driving down the road was a whole different story. The left was all crazed over.

One of the tech papers I read talked about a kit that included the entire package, including the buckets, but never said who the manufacturer was or where they were available. I'll PM you for the order status on my stock set.
Thanks again,
Shaun

[Dragcity]

Good info to know. I am one who is against all HID's. When you are driving at night and someone has HID, where does you focus go? Directly to THOSE lights. They stand out too much and I think they are VERY distracting. I don't think any automobiles should have them. I don't care how high end they are.

Dennis, there must be another way. Is there another lense that can be swapped????

[DEFYANT]

Ummm...No, it's only illegal when you're caught...I'm being picky, sorry. Agreed, and herein lies the rub.

Your average street cop isn't trained in this crap, but like other things automotive/LEO related (tint, boom boxes, exhaust, cell phones), it comes to be an issue when someone with some political juice weighs in and pushes LEOs into special enforcement. Just y'all wait, it will happen, maybe it's started already. Doesn't take long for LEOs to get savy on the underground 411 either. Lots of LEOs are car guys too.

The Illinois Vehicle Code is a paperback book, 8.5X11", about 1/2" thick with very thin pages. When I worked Majors, I used to brag that there wasn't a car on the street, anywhere, that doesn't have something illegal going on, and the IVC never failed me. Of course, I wasn't that kind of pr*ck, but I made my point.

Be advised that there are special cops who get special training in everything automotive, known as Major Collision Investigators. Small departments can't afford them, but they have mutual aid agreements. Not one square inch of America doesn't have one assigned to work it.

These are the heavyweight "Kojacks" that get called out in serious multiple injury and fatal collisions, sort of an "FAA/NTSB" for automobile collisions. Just being involved in such a crash, even if you're not injured, will have them pouring over your car like it was a 747 that went down with 230 souls aboard. Every aspect, every "error" gets examined and noted, and if you have illegal HIDs, you may find yourself included as one of the "causes". If this happens to you, your car insurance will turn into a mortgage payment.

IMHO, HID just ain't worth it, and like MartyO, I have no use for this crap myself. I hate the "bouncing blue" coming at me, makes me want to pull over so the volunteer fireman can get to his fire, and I don't like being fooled.

My Silverstars are perfect for me, thank you.

Just my .02c, carry on, gents...

As I was reading this thread, I was trying to formulate my response. Then I came across my response - only it was written by Mac.

What he said.

[Dennis Reinhart]

Good info to know. I am one who is against all HID's. When you are driving at night and someone has HID, where does you focus go? Directly to THOSE lights. They stand out too much and I think they are VERY distracting. I don't think any automobiles should have them. I don't care how high end they are.

Dennis, there must be another way. Is there another lense that can be swapped????


I am not against HID headlights but it can be abused and I agree that extremely bright headlights are distracting. The Mark 8 owners have been dealing with piss poor headlights since 1993, in 1996 they offered HID on the LSC then the dealer gouged the owner when the bulb went bad telling the owner it could not be changed, telling the owners they had to buy a whole head light assemble, this was a lie it can be bought and changed. But the Non HID headlights are piss poor even worse with age, at one time you could buy 1996 HID assemblies and install them in the 1993/1996 non LSC cars cost about 800.00 now they are 1400.00 and have gone out of production.
So I am trying to improve the non HID headlights that are still in production using a white HID bulb that does not have light house candle power, the DOT and the government have shut down one HID after market company I spoke to them today, there is a company in CA that is selling kits as off road use only, so again its like any thing you have to use common sense and guide lines when making some mods to any car, just like window tent its a good thing but if the windows are so dark you cannot see in the car would you as Police officer want to approach a car on a traffic stop.

[ctrlraven]

im not trying to promote this vendor or anything but its a good example of the different levels out there and what they look like. Now seeing these all side-by-side I think I may go with a 5000K headlamp system and a 3000K for the fog lamps. 6000K is too real HID'ish looking which might give LEO a reason to write me up and would be nice to actually have fog lamps that do something like cutting through fog and bad weather.

http://www.xenonking.com/images/Bimmer3000K.jpg
3000K has an approximately 3200lm output, which is more than 3x the light output of the traditional halogen light. 3000K emits GOLDEN YELLOW color and offers superior penetration power during adverse weather epically in dense fog. The applications of the 3000K kit aim more towards secondary lighting apparatus such as high beam and fog lights. The 3000K capsule is actually a 5000K capsule specially coated with a film that filters out all the wave length except the range of wave length which emits yellow.<O:P></O:P><O:P></O:P>

http://www.xenonking.com/images/Bimmer5000K.jpg
5000K has an approximately 3200lm output, which is more than 3x the light output of the traditional halogen light and is the color temperature with the most output. The light appears fairly white, and has light yellowish hue when reflected off the road identical to the OEM HID equipped vehicles. This color is for customers who is looking for pure performance white improving the looks of their headlight. It is idea for customers who does a lot of back road or canyon driving and need the optimal visibility.
<O:P</O:P<O:P</O:P

[ctrlraven]

http://www.xenonking.com/images/Bimmer6000K.jpg
6000K has an approximately 2800lm output, which is 3x the light output of the traditional halogen light and slightly less light output compared to the 5000K. Although it has a bit lesser light output, it emits pure whiter light with very slight and barely noticeable tint of blue.


http://www.xenonking.com/images/Bimmer8000K.jpg
8000K has an approximately 2550lm output, which is about 3x the light output of the traditional halogen light and slightly less light output compared to the 6000K. While it has a bit lesser light output, it emits bluer light than the 6000K.


http://www.xenonking.com/images/Bimmer10000K.jpg
10000K has an approximately 2200lm output, which is more than 2x the light output of the traditional halogen light. 10000K produces a deep blue light output approaching violet and the blue is noticeably deeper than the 8000K.<O:P></O:P>


http://www.xenonking.com/images/Bimmer12000K.jpg
12000K has an approximately 2100lm output, which is more than 2x the light output of the traditional halogen light. This color temperature puts out a deep bluish violet light and is deeper colored than the 10000K. It is for customer who is looking for the most extreme and most exotic looking light output.<O:P></O:P><O:P></O:P>

[Rider90]

I'll go for the 10000k. Aimed to the sky.

[SergntMac]

And light aircraft can follow you home...

[MyTMerc]

I am not against HID headlights but it can be abused and I agree that extremely bright headlights are distracting. The Mark 8 owners have been dealing with piss poor headlights since 1993, in 1996 they offered HID on the LSC then the dealer gouged the owner when the bulb went bad telling the owner it could not be changed, telling the owners they had to buy a whole head light assemble, this was a lie it can be bought and changed. But the Non HID headlights are piss poor even worse with age, at one time you could buy 1996 HID assemblies and install them in the 1993/1996 non LSC cars cost about 800.00 now they are 1400.00 and have gone out of production.
So I am trying to improve the non HID headlights that are still in production using a white HID bulb that does not have light house candle power, the DOT and the government have shut down one HID after market company I spoke to them today, there is a company in CA that is selling kits as off road use only, so again its like any thing you have to use common sense and guide lines when making some mods to any car, just like window tent its a good thing but if the windows are so dark you cannot see in the car would you as Police officer want to approach a car on a traffic stop.

Dennis,
My new stock buckets arrived today, thanks. They came with standard Phillips 9005 bulbs. When I bring it back for inspection, I'm going to ask that they take candle power readings with the standard 9005 and the Phillips 9005ST's I bought last week, to see if there is any noticable difference when installed in the poorly designed 94 Mark VIII buckets. Look forward to hearing about any improvements you are able to make.

Shaun

[dhawke98]

Ok, if HID is illegal for our cars, are there any decent headlamp upgrades? When moving from Az to Or, I took mostly backroads but there were times when the lights just didn't cut the mustard... even my 89 GMC is sometimes better, then again it sits quite a bit higher. :)

[RF Overlord]

are there any decent headlamp upgrades?Sylvania SilverStars.

[Rider90]

Sylvania SilverStars.
I have these and like them. Although I am on my third set for the fog lights, still the first set for headlights in 38k miles...

[KillJoy]

PIAA's are also nice, but pricey!

KillJoy

[ctrlraven]

Is their anyway to increase the power output to our oem lights?

[MENINBLK]

Do any of you realize that our headlights are TINTED ???
Changing them to Grand Marquis headlamps should give you more light output.

[Rider90]

Do any of you realize that our headlights are TINTED ???
Changing them to Grand Marquis headlamps should give you more light output.
What are you smoking?

And changing to Grand Marquis headlamps will change our black "inner-headlight" to a plastichrome looking one...

[Sully008]

Is their anyway to increase the power output to our oem lights?

There have been people that use relays to connect directly to the battery.

[magindat]

Is their anyway to increase the power output to our oem lights?

Yes.

You can use the wire that supplies their power to run a relay and connect the hot side of the relay directly to the battery. Headlights run on one circuit. Brights need a relay for each side as they are separate circuits. There was a post somewhere around here about a kit. I think BLGrandMarquis found the kit if I remember right.

By eliminating the in-car wiring, resistance drops. You would get alternator voltage (12.5-14.5 depending on mods and rpm) rather than 12-13 measured at the harness.

[dhawke98]

Thanks for the advice, I jsut picked up a set of the SilverStars. Put'em in and test tonight!

[grampaws]

I have had sylverstars for a year and a half..
No problems!!
Had Piaas ..Wasn't impressed..Gave them away!!
Too expensive and the perf. was not up to hype..

[Tallboy]

Do any of you realize that our headlights are TINTED ???
Changing them to Grand Marquis headlamps should give you more light output.

Pete, seriously, where do you come up with this stuff?

[ctrlraven]

Pete, seriously, where do you come up with this stuff? haha if we wanted no smoked and tinted headlamps we would of bought a GM :lol: . Though I've never noticed the headlamp lens is tinted.....I'll have to take a look at them sometime.

[KillJoy]

My lenses do not appear to be tinted.

Maybe someone used NiteShades on yours :D

KillJoy

[texascorvette]

Thanks for the advice, I jsut picked up a set of the SilverStars. Put'em in and test tonight!I bought a set a year ago and couldn't figure out how to install the damn things. The owner's manual was no help at all.

[Rider90]

I bought a set a year ago and couldn't figure out how to install the damn things. The owner's manual was no help at all.
I had to remove the whole headlamp housing IIRC.

[texascorvette]

I had to remove the whole headlamp housing IIRC.

OUCH!!! How long did that take?