Warning! Do as you please.

[Bigdogjim]

Just a general note about driving with the "low fuel" light on.

You run a big risk of doing damage to your engine, crap in the bottom of your tank over the years will get pass your fuel filter. Need I said more?

I really never try to let the tank get below ½, 1/4 on long hauls!

It is your car do as you please
.
You have been so advised!

[Hotrauder]

Always good advise, always ignored by my wife. Bless her little peapicking heart and empty head. Dennis:rolleyes:

[GreekGod]

Shortened life can be expected from running low on gasoline as it is a coolant for the EFI pump.

[Bigdogjim]

Shortened life can be expected from running low on gasoline as it is a coolant for the EFI pump.

Good point! Where I work I have 22 Ford E-350 SD. I have a written policy not to fuel below 1/4 of a tank, new fuel pump cost around $700. plus towing to repair shop add on a rental....$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[MarauderMark]

Yeah i tried that low fuel :bs: .It cost me a 3000 mile built motor..Don't go below 1/2 EVER!!!:rolleyes:

[KillJoy]

Ouch Mark.....What happened?????

KillJoyhh

[MarauderMark]

Ouch Mark.....What happened?????

KillJoyhh
Pm sent.....

[Tallboy]

Yeah it tried that low fuel :bs: .It cost me a 3000 mile built motor..Don't go below 1/2 EVER!!!:rolleyes:

I know that's what you were told. But, I highly doubt that was the reason. I have several friends who will NOT drag race their Marauders with anything MORE than 1/4 of a tank.

[Blackened300a]

Just out of curiosity, Is this rule in effect for S/Ced Marauders??
Do to the fact that the fuel pick up is towards the front of the tank and during acceleration the fuel sloshes to the rear and thats the reason for the engine damage??

[Bigdogjim]

Yes you could starve an engine for fuel under drag racing stress.

But I wrote the first post not only for our marauders but for any car that you own. Once or twice will not "hurt" anything long time will do damage.

[Tallboy]

Just out of curiosity, Is this rule in effect for S/Ced Marauders??
Do to the fact that the fuel pick up is towards the front of the tank and during acceleration the fuel sloshes to the rear and thats the reason for the engine damage??

I doubt it. I've seen a couple of my friends drag race with the "low fuel" light on. No problems at all. Both are supercharged. Saw Zack run an 11.6 with just about a quarter tank in Gainesville in 90+ degree heat. Car performed flawlessly.

The fact that someone told Mark he lost an engine because he raced with less than half a tank of fuel is criminal. The fact he apparently believes it, both saddens and puzzles me.

[shakes_26]

Hmm I must have a Ford built on wednesday motor, because I raced the dog $hiznat out of mine with 1/4 tank or less at least 50-60 passes after the S/C. I only changed fuel pump because the OEM was at the limit of keeping up with commanded fuel pressure at WOT (with the 3.0 pulley). It was still delivering fine but there was no margin left.

I've data logged a few drag launches, and the Fuel rail pressure never flickers (near 55-60psi, IIRC, I have to look again) and thats even aftera second run after the Bingo fuel light came on.

No flames meant Mark, but there not much chance of this being the case, maybe low fuel , along with other factors, maybe. I just dont think our cars can launch hard enough to create that sort of problem.

Jim's original post is good chicken soup for the car, not a strict requirement, but it certainly wouldn't hurt anything.

Yeah it tried that low fuel :bs: .It cost me a 3000 mile built motor..Don't go below 1/2 EVER!!!:rolleyes:

[Marauderjack]

Come on people......

Any trash in the bottom of the tank is going to be in the bottom of the tank empty or full!!:cool:

The only risk you run is sucking air under strong acceleration (tank would have to be empty) or excess heat build up in the pump since it is cooled be the surronding fuel!!:beer:

With the filter on the pump and the in line filter I would seriously doubt any crud or water could get to the motor......My $.02 worth!!:shake:

Marauderjack:burnout:

[RoyLPita]

So far there is only one time that I thought I ran her dry. My "new" sender said empty when there was at least 2 gallons left in the tank. Go figure.

[ckadiddle]

We usually fill up when it hits the 1/4 mark. It's a habit the wife beat into my head long ago. Not done for mechanical reasons.

[Bluerauder]

We usually fill up when it hits the 1/4 mark.
Yeah, I don't like to let mine fall below 1/4 tank for comfort reasons that have nothing to do with starving the fuel pump. Of course, there is that psychological aspect too when you "only" pay for 3/4 tank for a fill-up. At today's price that's the difference between a $40.00 fill-up and about a $53.00 fill-up. ;) For some reason, it just seems easier to part with $40 rather than $50+ IMHO. ;)

[David Morton]

The remark about fuel pump cooling made me laugh. Not to mention the junk about crap in the bottom of the tank that's going to get pulled up only after it's low.

Boys, I've been to the best schools General Motors has to offer and I can tell you this thread topic is all popular myth and isn't true. Not one word of it.

1) Where do you think the pump is getting the fuel from in the first place? Answer: From the bottom of the tank! There's nothing bad in the gas that floats. Gasoline is lighter than anything found in it that could possibly be contaminating it. Best thing you can do about contaminants in gasoline is to buy it where they sell the most of it. Worst contamination cases I've run across in my years as a technician is where they bought a tank from Ma & Pa Kettle's Peanut Emporium on Carson's Road where they're still selling from that load of gas they bought back in '82.

2) The stuff about "cooling" is also bogus. If there's gasoline going through the pump it's getting all the cooling it needs. Water is the enemy of in-tank electric fuel pumps, and in case you didn't know, water is heavier than gasoline, so the pump is always purging whatever water may show up in the gas you buy.

You guys are buying more fuel than you need to and are wasting fuel lugging around the 75-80 pounds of extra fuel you feel you need to keep the fuel guage past 1/2.

The low fuel lamp is so you don't run out of gasoline, period.

Of course I know this won't change any of you armchair technicians' behavior. I post this rebuttal so the more humble members here that know they're not technicians will see the logic and perhaps not concern themselves with this hooey about low fuel warning lamps, junk in the bottom of the tank and "cooling".

[Dragcity]

I fill up when I need to, that is, when I don't have enough gas to get to where I intend to go. What's the psycology in that?

[David Morton]

I fill up when I need to, that is, when I don't have enough gas to get to where I intend to go. What's the psycology in that?It's called reality-based acceptance. That's a good thing.

[Leadfoot281]

I run my cars (every car I've had) nearlly dry before filling them. I've done this for years. I don't think I've ever put less than 15 gallons in my Marauder.The most was nearlly 18 gallons.

I regularly drive with the low fuel light on for days. I never let the car idle, or warm up (even in the winter) so I know what my MPG is. My Marauder never goes below 19mpg and never goes over 22mpg so I can easily go 350 miles before worrying about anything.

I've put 21k miles on the Marauder and 40k on the CV, 50k on the '95 T-Bird, 30k on the '85 T-Bird with absolutely no problems. I've never replaced a fuel pump.

When you know your MPG, the trip odometer is far more accurate than the fuel gauge.

[Bigdogjim]

Of course I know this won't change any of you armchair technicians' behavior. I post this rebuttal so the more humble members here that know they're not technicians will see the logic and perhaps not concern themselves with this hooey about low fuel warning lamps, junk in the bottom of the tank and "cooling".

In all due respect to your years of turning a wrench I manage a fleet (22) of Ford E-350 SD and I have seen first hand the early damage to fuel pumps by drivers letting tanks run low over time. I have vans that I have sold with 400,000 miles on the factory pump and some that driver who run low all the time trash in 50,000-75,000 miles, real world driving! My fleet runs over 1,400,000 miles in a year working 4 days a week!


I have had repair shops cut apart fuel filters and you should see some of the crap in the filter. We change filters at 15,000 miles. So some of what I posted was in fact very true and helpful. It was not posted with drag racing in mind. (hi-jacked thread) So it does not matter what you drive I was just pointing out the dangers of running on fumes over a long time frame.

[GreekGod]

The 2003 CV/GM shop manual mentions a sock type inlet filter for the fuel pump. If it is similar to the 1993 Gran Marquis, it is a nylon mesh that does allow water to pass. It then flows through the in-line filter and then the screens in the injectors. I don't think any of the three are much more than particulate filters and all will allow water to get through.

Our MM owners manual calls the 20 amp fuel pump fuse a "high current" mini fuse.

[quoting our humble Master Tech.]:

"Of course I know this won't change any of you armchair technicians' behavior. I post this rebuttal so the more humble members here that know they're not technicians will see the logic and perhaps not concern themselves with this hooey about low fuel warning lamps, junk in the bottom of the tank and "cooling"....

"2) The stuff about "cooling" is also bogus. If there's gasoline going through the pump it's getting all the cooling it needs."...

Now for some armchair logic...20 amp fuse (amps x volts = watts , 20 x 12 = 240 watts. So the pump might be using on average, 100 watts of current, which equals the heat of a 100 watt light bulb. As our Master tech admitted, "If there's gasoline going through the pump it's getting all the cooling it needs" ...ergo, the gasoline does cool the pump!

This logic comes from the not so humble GreekGod, who is actually only a demi-god, being related to Zeus through Hercules. ;)

[SergntMac]

I agree that this thread (and it's original intent) has been diverted to another topic i.e. drag racing. Two completely different topics, let's get back on the correct track, not just a race track.

When someone says "I know a guy who..." vs. "I did this", I'll listen to the "this happened to me" voice everytime. Likewise...Given a choice between listening to serious and "certified" wrench who's "been there, done that" vs. "fleet managers"...Guess what? I'll hear the fleet managers everytime, because everything happens to them, everything.

A dozen different wrenches may be/get involved in fleet repairs, but none of them see the whole picture from the fleet manager's point of view. Y'all need to sit back and look at repair records, and only then will you know what you are talking about. To a fleet manager, ten out of his ten F-150s may have blown a tranny. To a tech who's only fixed one of those ten, he knows what?

Taking one side of the topic and calling it "criminal" is criminal in itself. There is much-too-much going on to make such a declaration.

This thread is not much different from cops and their "classroom vs. street" discussions, which is always an issue among cops. Read a book, and you'll need to read it again when the ***** hits the fan. Live it, and you won't have any such book ij hand.

Nothing replaces real time experience, therefore, I'll listen to a fleet manager before I hear a "certified tech". When you say "I broke it, and I fixed it this way", you will have my attention.

Just my .02C, carry on gents...

[Tallboy]

Taking one side of the topic and calling it "criminal" is criminal in itself. There is much-too-much going on to make such a declaration.

Wrong. What I said is true and you know it. Here-I'll say it again...

"The fact that someone told Mark he lost an engine because he raced with less than half a tank of fuel is criminal. "

Now, it would appear the story is changing, now that's it been made public.

I wonder why.

[Blackened300a]

I do believe that its not a good idea to race with low fuel, but I do not believe that was the reason for the engine to lean over and detonate.
Im going with bad tuning as the reason.

[MI2QWK4U]

Wrong. What I said is true and you know it. Here-I'll say it again...

"The fact that someone told Mark he lost an engine because he raced with less than half a tank of fuel is criminal. "

Now, it would appear the story is changing, now that's it been made public.

I wonder why.


I have to speak up on this. I agree with Chuck and Marc on racing below a half a tank. While I try to race with no more than a 1/4 tank, I can honestly say that every single fun that I have made in my supercharged Marauder has been below a 1/2 of a tank. I can remember one time at Milan where I rode up with well below a 1/4 tank of race gas. I found out that the gas guy was not there, and I had to run with what I had in the tank. Low fuel light came on in the staging lane waiting for my first run. Three runs later it still ran ok in the 1/4 mile. It should be noted that my Marauder is thirsty, with the small pulley's high boost needing more fuel from the focus fuel pump and boost a pump. I made 3 good solid runs with whatever gas is in the tank when the low fuel light is on.

I find it hard to believe and comprehend that someone would actually tell someone else that an engine failure was caused by running the car with less than a 1/2 tank. I am trying to figure that out.....with no success either Chuck.

[Tallboy]

I have to speak up on this. I agree with Chuck and Marc on racing below a half a tank. While I try to race with no more than a 1/4 tank, I can honestly say that every single fun that I have made in my supercharged Marauder has been below a 1/2 of a tank. I can remember one time at Milan where I rode up with well below a 1/4 tank of race gas. I found out that the gas guy was not there, and I had to run with what I had in the tank. Low fuel light came on in the staging lane waiting for my first run. Three runs later it still ran ok in the 1/4 mile. It should be noted that my Marauder is thirsty, with the small pulley's high boost needing more fuel from the focus fuel pump and boost a pump. I made 3 good solid runs with whatever gas is in the tank when the low fuel light is on.

I find it hard to believe and comprehend that someone would actually tell someone else that an engine failure was caused by running the car with less than a 1/2 tank. I am trying to figure that out.....with no success either Chuck.

That has been my only point. Hey, look-we all know we're gonna break stuff drag racing, right? Sooner or later, it'll be our turn to break out the wrenches and the checkbook. I just cannot stomach that kind of mis-information.

[B.C. Bake]

The remark about fuel pump cooling made me laugh. Not to mention the junk about crap in the bottom of the tank that's going to get pulled up only after it's low.

Boys, I've been to the best schools General Motors has to offer and I can tell you this thread topic is all popular myth and isn't true. Not one word of it.

1) Where do you think the pump is getting the fuel from in the first place? Answer: From the bottom of the tank! There's nothing bad in the gas that floats. Gasoline is lighter than anything found in it that could possibly be contaminating it. Best thing you can do about contaminants in gasoline is to buy it where they sell the most of it. Worst contamination cases I've run across in my years as a technician is where they bought a tank from Ma & Pa Kettle's Peanut Emporium on Carson's Road where they're still selling from that load of gas they bought back in '82.

2) The stuff about "cooling" is also bogus. If there's gasoline going through the pump it's getting all the cooling it needs. Water is the enemy of in-tank electric fuel pumps, and in case you didn't know, water is heavier than gasoline, so the pump is always purging whatever water may show up in the gas you buy.

You guys are buying more fuel than you need to and are wasting fuel lugging around the 75-80 pounds of extra fuel you feel you need to keep the fuel guage past 1/2.

The low fuel lamp is so you don't run out of gasoline, period.

Of course I know this won't change any of you armchair technicians' behavior. I post this rebuttal so the more humble members here that know they're not technicians will see the logic and perhaps not concern themselves with this hooey about low fuel warning lamps, junk in the bottom of the tank and "cooling". What Dave sead... but it's not good to run out of gas till it dies, or am I wrong?:pimp:

[MM2004]

"Just a general note about driving with the "low fuel" light on.

You run a big risk of doing damage to your engine, crap in the bottom of your tank over the years will get pass your fuel filter. Need I said more?

I really never try to let the tank get below ½, 1/4 on long hauls!

It is your car do as you please
.
You have been so advised!"

Nothing said about racing,...

Mike.

:popcorn:
<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

[Bradley G]

"When you know your MPG, the trip odometer is far more accurate than the fuel gauge"(Quote)
Since some of my mileage varies by 200% .
I think, I'll stick to reading the guage.:P
The fuel tank in the Panthers, are up right.
How does the fuel slosh away from the pick-up?

[427435]

I have to go with the technican on this one. If pumps are going bad for the fleet guy, it's not because of low fuel, it's because of crap that's getting in the gas (do you have your own fuel tanks?). And any stuff in the gas is going to end up at the pump whether you let the tank get low or not.

If you run totally out of gas, that could possibly hurt---although I've done that a couple of times with other cars without issues.

Now for personal experience with my MM. I drive 65 miles, one way, to work---so I have to refuel at least twice a week (including weekend driving). I drive along a rural highway with gas stations about 20 miles apart. I also hate wasting time refueling, so I almost always run until the yellow light comes on. Then I often drive another 20 miles. I routinely put in 17+ gallons and often over 18. The most I've put in is 18.6. The car has 70,000 miles on it and running fine (maybe it's the Mobil 1 oil----opps that's another thread :D ).

[Leadfoot281]

"When you know your MPG, the trip odometer is far more accurate than the fuel gauge"(Quote)
Since some of my mileage varies by 200% .
I think, I'll stick to reading the guage.:P
The fuel tank in the Panthers, are up right.
How does the fuel slosh away from the pick-up?

Your milage varies 200%. Not mine. Always between 19-22mpg. No tank was less than 19. Ever.

I've never looked in my tank so I don't know, or care, which way the pick-up faces.

I've never had "'fuel slosh" last for 350 miles. Nor do I read the gas gauge while experiancing "fuel slosh".

I have no idea how many gallons of fuel are in the tank by looking at the gauge. Looking at the trip odo, I can estimate (very accurately) how many gallons I have left.

280 miles on Trip odo @ 20 mpg =5 gallons in the tank. (or 100 miles left.):P

I stand by what I said; "When you know your MPG, the trip odo is MORE accurate than your gas gauge". BTW, how do you vary your milage by 200% ? Dirty air filter, low tires, what?

[mtnh]

"When you know your MPG, the trip odometer is far more accurate than the fuel gauge"(Quote)
Since some of my mileage varies by 200% .
I think, I'll stick to reading the guage.:P
The fuel tank in the Panthers, are up right.
How does the fuel slosh away from the pick-up?

Good point. I was picturing a squirrel cage effect to get the fuel to elude the pickup, but since the tank is taller than it is wide in the longitudinal (car's longitudinal axis, that is) dimension, even that won't work.

My LS has a 17 or so Gallon tank, I run it down to needing between 16 and 18 gallons at fill-up time, I have changed the fuel filter one time, at around 45 K. I now have 97K on it (miles) with no trouble. Of course, I avoid stopping for that weekly gas fill-up if I see a tanker mated to the filling station's tanks, so I may have less sediment in my two fuel tanks.*

Recently, I ran that car out of gas, 3 miles from my intended fill-up, due to finding out that my fuel guage stops at the line of Empty, and does not go below that even when empty. I was doing around 80 when it died, and was actually discussing with my 13 yr old daughter how I had gotten an incredible 382 miles on that tank when it instantly died on the interstate. She was saying, "how much do you usually get?," to which I responded, "320 to 340 miles". Conk! I did find out that it can coast a mile with a stopped engine from 80 mph. Too bad I ended up right where the interstate went from 3 lanes to 2. I had 2 vehicles buzz me 3 feet over the breakdown lane line in the 20 minutes that it took to get my friend out with a tank. Of course, we were watching from 120 feet away on a little 30 foot hill. Happily, I'm still up and running, and will be changing the fuel filter soon. :stupid:


* Not sure about the newer models, but the 2000 LS has a pair of composite, aerodynamic fuel tanks in the car's underbelly, one on each side of the drive shaft. Each tank has its own fuel pump, does not recycle the unused fuel from the fuel rail, has no return line from the engine compartment, and only pumps enough fuel to satisfy the fuel rail's pressure demand.

So Bigdog, where does your fleet get fueled, in your station, or at any fuel station that they can get to? If it is any station, do your drivers stop for filling at stations where tankers are mated to the ground tanks? Your observations of excessive particulates in the filters is somewhat baffling. What grade of filter is used in your fleet? Please say OEM or better, not FR*M! So what you are saying is that the fuel pumps are being damaged by particulate contamination in the fuel? I guess that I would be very watchful of where they are filling your fleet's tanks.

Oh, and, I am paying more attention to the low fuel light on my car now.

[Bigdogjim]

I have to go with the technican on this one. If pumps are going bad for the fleet guy, it's not because of low fuel, it's because of crap that's getting in the gas (do you have your own fuel tanks?). And any stuff in the gas is going to end up at the pump whether you let the tank get low or not..

Good for go with technican. No problem! My pumps are moving a lot more fuel then our Marauders. Not per miles. But they travel 1200-1900 miles in 4 days! In normal use that can can be 150+ gallons a week! So yes they take a beating. And yes if a driver runs them low on fuel each time then the pump will get hotter than normal. Heat is the emeny of any electrical motor.

Fleet management 101. Pay attention to detail. If I posted the preventive maintenance scheduled for my marauder you all would think I was crazy?

When I start my engine and put the car in drive and know my final destination is 900 miles one way in one day I ride with a real good piece of mind knowing the the car will preform at no less then 100% of what the manafucter designed it to do. If it does fail then you know what? ***** happens!

Go with what works for you. Me I learned by driving a motorcoach for 2,000,000 miles in 20 years all across the USA! Just doing what works. Fine tuning what I learned, applying it to fleet and personal vehicle's.

Tell you what come back in 10 years and let's have a look and ride in your marauder. Happy motoring!:burnout:

[Bigdogjim]

So Bigdog, where does your fleet get fueled, in your station, or at any fuel station that they can get to? If it is any station, do your drivers stop for filling at stations where tankers are mated to the ground tanks? Your observations of excessive particulates in the filters is somewhat baffling. What grade of filter is used in your fleet? Please say OEM or better, not FR*M! So what you are saying is that the fuel pumps are being damaged by particulate contamination in the fuel? I guess that I would be very watchful of where they are filling your fleet's tanks.

We use Sunoco gas in 12 states most of the time same station each week like clock work. (95%)

Next time you change the fuel filter in your marauder cut it in two and take a look. :rolleyes:

I try and teach my crews not to fuel if they see a tanker dropping gas. Asking for trouble.

How often do you the average station changes filters on their own pumps?

We use Ford parts 100% of the time each of the 3 repair shops are on board with that. I am lucky in that area.

[David Morton]

Yes, GreekGod. Your reading comprehension is good. I was saying that the gasoline is the cooling for the pump, in a round-about way. And the engineers also told me the gasoline is the lubrication for the bearings as well. Point is, that if the thing is running, probably because there's enough gas to keep the engine running (assuming the fuel pressure sensor hasn't malfunctioned and kept the thing running with no gas in the tank), then it is getting enough cooling. Your illogic about 100 watt lightbulbs is astounding though. What are you smoking? The energy the pump uses is to make pressure, not heat. These pumps run quite cool anyways. They never "burn up". They have to run immersed in gasoline! Good God! You suggest the NHTSA would let the manufacturers build a time-bomb. Again, what the hell are you smoking? And where are all these people that have had their tanks blow up from this 100 watt heat machine you envision? Certainly 100 people a day run out of gas. That's 36,500 dry running pumps a year. Where's the recall?

BigDogJim, nothing I say will change your mind. If you can't see that the story about getting low on gas means "stuff will get past the filter" or that "the pump will run hot", if you can't see that all that talk is bogus, if you can't understand that the dirt in the filter is why the damn thing is there in the first place, if you won't accept that Ford, General Motors and Chrysler, just to name the domestics, haven't figured out all these things you guys are imagining and made a product as best as they can, and that some drivers have a habit of buying bad gas from bad vendors (hence the dirty filter, DOH!), then nothing I say will make any difference.

But I will point out to you that cars can't run on fumes. They must have real liquid gasoline coming out of the injectors or they stop running. More often the pistons suffer from a lean out when a car runs out of gas. Then again, you're listening to the below average intelligence mechanics that work on your fleet, changing oil, greasing ball joints, replacing filters and cutting them open to "prove" this or that to you, mostly how much you need them and how smart they are. (Hell, no dealership will hire them. That's why they're working for you.) I bet not one of them has been to a factory training school. And no, I won't listen to any more of the "proud to be dumb" bull***** about book knowledge versus real world. I've had both. I was a "proud to be dumb" mechanic back in my teens and 20's, became a dealership mechanic in my 30's and was sent to factory schools, then I became a true technician, got my ASE's and then started to understand what was really going on in an industry that seems to thrive more on bull*****, causing and then justifying unneeded and unnecessary repairs. Ask any dealership service manager. The industry is lacking anywhere from 80,000 to 100,000 QUALIFIED TECHNICIANS in any given year. Most dealerships are doing good to have two fully trained, good technicians.

So I'll state it one more time. The fuel pump can't be hurt by running the tank low. It can't run too hot because the fuel is low. As long as good fuel is going through it, it will get enough cooling and lubrication to operate within design standards.

Fuel pumps are hurt by contaminated fuel (usually water) or by running dry. Nothing about running low is going to cause stuff to "get past" the filter either. There's no filter by-pass for when the tank is low. All the fuel goes through the filter, at all times, whether the tank is full or at 1/8.

Racing or not. :banana2:

[TripleTransAm]

Well, here's some facts... draw your own conclusions:
gasoline has a spontaneous ignition temperature of over 500 degrees F. I'd be inclined to think that a fuel pump would fail before reaching that temperature, but that's a side issue.

The ratio of gasoline to air must be between about 1 and 8 percent in order to burn, otherwise it is either too lean or rich. The empty space in a fuel tank is mostly fuel vapour because of gasoline's volatility, so it is too rich to burn.

Lastly, these fuel pumps are 'submerged'. If you've seen one, you'll know that the fuel pickup/sock is fairly close to the pump assembly. Why not mount the actual fuel pump in a remote location (say, on the side of the tank, or mounted next to the fuel filter?) which would result in a cheaper-to-replace setup? If you've ever had to change a fuel pump on a GM F-body (or any GM model designed before they decided to implement the little trap doors in the trunk to access the top of the tank), you'll understand how much money is wasted by the manufacturer when replacing one of these suckers on warranty.

So I think the issue here is not total burn-up due to having NO cooling fuel flowing through a pump, but rather that the fact of being submerged is an important contributor to the total cooling. Most pumps will not fail in a dramatic fashion, they will tend to fail over time which I'm sure you've seen as well. It's fairly clear that consistently running the tank low will put extra wear and tear on the pump and it *might* fail earlier than a unit that had never operated on the slightly-hot side of the temperature range.

[TripleTransAm]

As a side note, I'm not sure if I'm misinterpreting the use of bold text and stuff like "what are you smoking" but this kind of tone is what I usually encounter from the technicians (and I use that term loosely) that inevitably mess up my cars in some way or completely fail to diagnose any of the more difficult problems... perhaps because they're not willing to give up any preconceived notions (old mechanic's tales) or tend to cling to some perhaps-misunderstood piece of information gathered at a factory-sponsored course, but I can only wish a technicians skills could be determined based on the number of certificates they could wave in my face.

"Anyone who stops learning is old, whether at twenty or eighty."
Henry Ford

"It's what you learn after you know it all that counts."
Harry S. Truman

And my favorite...
"I am learning all the time. The tombstone will be my diploma."
Eartha Kitt

[BillyGman]

Wow! My head is spinning from all of this. I can see some good points coming from both sides on this debate. However, I can only tell you what I've done with my cars (including my Marauder). I routinely stop at the gas station only when I need to (ie. when my gas gauge is on "E" and the "Low fuel" light has been on for atleast a few miles).

I've also raced my Marauder both at the dragstrip and on the street with about 1/8th of a tank of gas. My Marauder has 46,000 miles, and I haven't had any problems with it. That is my experience with my car(s) FWIW.

BTW, I must also say that I don't know any of the details about anyone being told that their engine was destroyed due to allowing the fuel tank to run too low, and this is the first I'm hearing about that concerning Mark's engine, but I just want to say that this is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard in the automotive world, and I don't blame Chuck for labeling that to be "criminal".

[prchrman]

I do not drag race with the MM so no problem there...I am getting old so I stop and fill up about every 2 hours on a trip...no problem there...and also I never let it run below 1/2 a tank...no reason except a complete fillup hurts my penny pinching heart...willie

[Bradley G]

My record, sixteen passes WOT 1320 feet.
Got about 150 miles on that tank.
On the way down to WFC last year St. Louis Mo., I had 350 on the odo when I pulled into town, still had a third of a tank.
The pick up issue, is no concern as I understand it.

Your milage varies 200%. Not mine. Always between 19-22mpg. No tank was less than 19. Ever.

I've never looked in my tank so I don't know, or care, which way the pick-up faces.

I've never had "'fuel slosh" last for 350 miles. Nor do I read the gas gauge while experiancing "fuel slosh".

I have no idea how many gallons of fuel are in the tank by looking at the gauge. Looking at the trip odo, I can estimate (very accurately) how many gallons I have left.

280 miles on Trip odo @ 20 mpg =5 gallons in the tank. (or 100 miles left.):P

I stand by what I said; "When you know your MPG, the trip odo is MORE accurate than your gas gauge". BTW, how do you vary your milage by 200% ? Dirty air filter, low tires, what?

[Marauderjack]

This discussion has been very enlightening and thought provoking!!!:beer:

My observations and a question:

1. When the tank is full you have additional "Head Pressure" from the weight of the fuel above the pickup....thus the pump has to work LESS to accomplish it's goal (pressure/flow rate)!!!:bows: When the tank is near empty you have less "Head Pressure" assistance thus the pump works harder and GETS HOTTER!!:cool:

2. I have always wanted to know how our "Rev Limiters" work??:confused: I have hit mine many times (I think...maybe TC) at the 1-2 shift at WOT?? The motor just dies momentarily and comes back to life quicker than you can get off the gas!!:argue: If this (as well as the TC) cuts the fuel off momentarily wouldn't it create a LEAN condition "By Design" and cause BIG TROUBLE as far as A/F and momentary DETONATION???:confused:

3. As David stated and I did waaaay back in this discussion.....If dirt and/or water gets past the sock in the tank and the in line fuel filter it will have to be because they BOTH have holes in them!!:eek: A "Tight" filter saturated wil gasoline WILL NOT PASS WATER....PERIOD!!:rolleyes: It will however act as a BIG restriction and cause fuel pressure to go waaaay up while fuel flow goes waaaay DOWn....... making a LEAN A/F condition and DETONATION!!!

4. Everyone must keep in mine that none of our cars (except Marty's and soon John's) were ever designed to do what we are doing with our Superchargers!! When ANYTHING happens at WOT and HIGH BOOST......dissaster is just around the corner!!:o I have accepted this and am prepared to fix it and move on!!!

Marauderjack:burnout:

[Bradley G]

Wouldn't the spark be retarded as well ?
The rev limiter is your friend!
Let's you run another day!.... with out the wait.
I gotta admit, when I saw how puny our fuel pump motor is, compared to the assembly, I was a bit suprised.
You can't even leave me one?

This discussion has been very enlightening and thought provoking!!!:beer:

My observations and a question:

1. When the tank is full you have additional "Head Pressure" from the weight of the fuel above the pickup....thus the pump has to work LESS to accomplish it's goal (pressure/flow rate)!!!:bows: When the tank is near empty you have less "Head Pressure" assistance thus the pump works harder and GETS HOTTER!!:cool:

2. I have always wanted to know how our "Rev Limiters" work??:confused: I have hit mine many times (I think...maybe TC) at the 1-2 shift at WOT?? The motor just dies momentarily and comes back to life quicker than you can get off the gas!!:argue: If this (as well as the TC) cuts the fuel off momentarily wouldn't it create a LEAN condition "By Design" and cause BIG TROUBLE as far as A/F and momentary DETONATION???:confused:

3. As David stated and I did waaaay back in this discussion.....If dirt and/or water gets past the sock in the tank and the in line fuel filter it will have to be because they BOTH have holes in them!!:eek: A "Tight" filter saturated wil gasoline WILL NOT PASS WATER....PERIOD!!:rolleyes: It will however act as a BIG restriction and cause fuel pressure to go waaaay up while fuel flow goes waaaay DOWn....... making a LEAN A/F condition and DETONATION!!!

4. Everyone must keep in mine that none of our cars (except Marty's and soon John's) were ever designed to do what we are doing with our Superchargers!! When ANYTHING happens at WOT and HIGH BOOST......dissaster is just around the corner!!:o I have accepted this and am prepared to fix it and move on!!!

Marauderjack:burnout:

[DEFYANT]

Low fuel and hard starts? Been there done that too. And going up a steep incline hill.

I specificly remember running hard in the CVPI with fuel so low, the guage needle was resting on the "E" and the fuel light was on.

Weather WOT on a grade or level surface, running CVPIs in training at WOT in turns or standing on the brakes, I have never heard of low fuel level being an issue.

I worked for two major law enforcement agencies and never received a warning from a fleet manager about the fuel level in any patrol vehicle.

If this was truly a weekness in these cars, cops would have discovered it long ago.

And police do not use Sunoco fuel. Probably not even close!

No flames Jim, just my experiance :o .

[David Morton]

One thing at a time. TTA...

...the empty space inside the tank is gasoline vapor and is highly explosive. Not true that it can't burn. An explosion is burning, very fast burning.

...the sock is almost always submerged but on most set-ups the pump is out in the vapors when there's less than 1/4 tank. Again the engineers from the factories (and their cumulative years of experience in research and real world warranty repairs) say that as long as the pump is pumping good fuel, cooling and lubrication are adequate.

..."What are you smoking?" is a popular venacular calling to question the logic of an argument. I think it applies here. I'm not accusing anybody of being an actual opium addict.

...accusing somebody of "not being teachable" is an increasingly popular tactic these days, and it is a very old one. It conveys to people who have no experience or education that the argument one is putting forth is just as valid as the argument of the one accused of being unteachable. So there's an element of "Flat Earth Society" in all of us, eh? I'm sure I've been guilty of the same on different topics. You're excused. You won't get my vote, but you may still get quite a few. Dang if I can figure out what office you're running for though.

But on this topic, I have been taught, already. Taught by the cumulative experience of the best engineers General Motors has to offer. The electric fuel pump is safe, and rarely runs even warm and never as hot as the radiator.

...it is the old myths I'm trying to debunk here. Accusing me of being the ignorant one is typical of the armchair mechanics on this site. But, perhaps you bristle at my tone. Please excuse my intolerable expertise and the way I express myself. It's just that I hate superstition in humans, and that's what these ignorant assertions about "stuff getting past the filter" and "fuel pumps running hot" really are, superstitions. Some guys have had bad experiences with bad gas and gotten a bunch of bull***** explanations from crooked or just plain stupid mechanics and they repeat this junk over and over until it becomes urban legend.

(Oops. I used bold text again. I guess that "proves" you're right, eh? I'm the ignorant one defending old myths again, because I use bold text.) :rolleyes:


...this is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard in the automotive world...You got it brother! But I've heard worse, much worse. :lol:

MarauderJack...

...the sock can sure as hell pass water. I've seen the beads of water on the floor in the gas there when I changed fuel filters too many times to believe that.

...the rev limiter turns off the spark. It can't damage the engine. Don't worry, be happy. :)

I'm not mad. Hell, I've typed this whole thing while listening to Debussy's "Claire de Lune". :lol:

Too early in the morning for Mountain's "Mississippi Queen". I've got neighbors. That one has to play at 130 decibels or it's just a waste of time. :baaa:

[MERCMAN]

So lets hear from a FORD certified mechanic. Claude, got your ears on???

[Tallboy]

So lets hear from a FORD certified mechanic. Claude, got your ears on???

Nah...we need more input from fleet managers.

[GreekGod]

[Mr. Morton said]:

"Yes, GreekGod. Your reading comprehension is good. I was saying that the gasoline is the cooling for the pump, in a round-about way. And the engineers also told me the gasoline is the lubrication for the bearings as well. Point is, that if the thing is running, probably because there's enough gas to keep the engine running (assuming the fuel pressure sensor hasn't malfunctioned and kept the thing running with no gas in the tank), then it is getting enough cooling. Your illogic about 100 watt lightbulbs is astounding though. What are you smoking? The energy the pump uses is to make pressure, not heat. These pumps run quite cool anyways. They never "burn up". They have to run immersed in gasoline! Good God! You suggest the NHTSA would let the manufacturers build a time-bomb. Again, what the hell are you smoking? And where are all these people that have had their tanks blow up from this 100 watt heat machine you envision? Certainly 100 people a day run out of gas. That's 36,500 dry running pumps a year. Where's the recall?"

Now we are getting somewhere! My example of a 100 watt lightbulb was for rhetorical purposes only. An incandesent lightbulb is very inefficient electrically. Most of the current used by said bulb is converted to heat and not light. Now, a modern electric motor is very efficient, especially compared to said bulb.

The fact that Ford engineers fused the fuel pump for 20 amps tells me it has the potential to draw a relatively large amount of current. When I am parading my Marauder with the emergency flashers on at 20 miles per hour through small rural Michigan towns, the fuel usage is very low and pump current usage is also very low (note to self, need American flag for right fender when parading).

Now, if I was to travel, with three 300 pound women passengers on an interstate hiway through Montana at 85 mph while pulling a 2000 pound trailer on an upward grade with a dirty old and restricted flow filter, the draw through that 20 amp fuse would probably be quite high. The pump's needs for fuel cooling would be much greater.

I recall a certain U.S. domestic airliner that exploded a few years ago. It seems that all the Kings engineers figured the fuel pumps and wiring inside the reservoirs could never cause a hazard or explosion because of redundancy and safety precautions. The crew and passengers paid with their lives for engineers and technitions lack of foresight.

The more we learn, the more we find out we don't know.

[GreekGod]

J.S. Bach's "Tocatta and Fugue in D Minor" for me. Very powerfull with 18 hz content. Dual Cerwin Vega 15" subs and dual 15" woofer R and L front channel Cerwin Vega CLSC215 towers. That's 6 -15" drivers in front in a 12' x 24' room. Followed by Wagners "Ride of the Valkyries".

[MERCMAN]

Nah...we need more input from fleet managers.

or insurance brokers :)

[Tallboy]

or insurance brokers :)

...who have installed more superchargers and worked on more cars than you have hairs on your head. :D

[mtnh]

I'm surprised that anyone has not touched Jack's explanation of the weight of the head of gasoline helping the fuel pump work less hard with a full tank as opposed to an empty tank. When you are a fuel pump that is supplying running liquid at up to 70 PSI, 16 inches of gas stacked on top of the fuel that you are lifting isn't going to do anything for you. Now, if you had 200' of fuel stacked on you and you were pumping out, then you'd be getting some sunstantial assistance. In fact, if the engine was at the same level as the fuel pump, it would not need to be there.

Anyhow, I'm waiting for the padlock symbol to show up on this one. Poor Bigdog, what a can of worms you've opened. :help:

[the_pack_rat]

If I keep a case of fuel filters & like 5 full containers(5 gal each) of gas in my trunk at any given time ......

Would that put me right @ neutral middle ground & keep me safe no matter what ?.

Would I need to re-register & title my car as a fleet vehicle ..... or can I leave it as be ?.

Who shot JR ?.

Who was really on that grassy knoll ?.

How many more stupid so called "reality" shows will be airing this time next year ?.

If something is said to be neither here nor there .......

Then where the hell is it ?.



















:stupid:

[SergntMac]

I've read some funny ***** on this board, and this thread is in the top ten.

[MERCMAN]

...who have installed more superchargers and worked on more cars than you have hairs on your head. :D

That would be 3 s/c then since I only have 2 :)

[Tallboy]

That would be 3 s/c then since I only have 2 :)

Nice one, Dan!! :lol: :beer:

[MERCMAN]

...who have installed more superchargers and worked on more cars than you have hairs on your head. :D

That would be 3 s/c then since I only have 2 :)

[Rider90]

That would be 3 s/c then since I only have 2 :)
A Two-Fer Dan! We got it the first time :P

[Krytin]

I'm surprised that anyone has not touched Jack's explanation of the weight of the head of gasoline helping the fuel pump work less hard with a full tank as opposed to an empty tank. When you are a fuel pump that is supplying running liquid at up to 70 PSI, 16 inches of gas stacked on top of the fuel that you are lifting isn't going to do anything for you. Now, if you had 200' of fuel stacked on you and you were pumping out, then you'd be getting some sunstantial assistance. In fact, if the engine was at the same level as the fuel pump, it would not need to be there.

Anyhow, I'm waiting for the padlock symbol to show up on this one. Poor Bigdog, what a can of worms you've opened. :help:

Thank You!!!
16" of gas will add a miniscule fraction of a pound of pressure - hardly measurable!

[Haggis]

.:popcorn:

[Bluerauder]

Thank You!!!
16" of gas will add a miniscule fraction of a pound of pressure - hardly measurable!
Correct !!! 2.309 feet of water = 1 psi. Assuming a gasoline weight of 6.25 pounds per gallon (or 46.75 pounds per cubic foot), then you would need 36.96 inches (3.08 feet) of gasoline for 1 psi. So, 16 inches of gas gives you only about 0.43 psi. :D

Note that the weight of gasoline varies considerably based on specific content and temperature. I have seen weights as low as 41-43 pounds per cubic foot. :rolleyes:

[Rider90]

Holy ***** guys just fill up your gas tanks and quit nagging eachother

[Smokie]

Just a general note about driving with the "low fuel" light on.

You run a big risk of doing damage to your engine, crap in the bottom of your tank over the years will get pass your fuel filter. Need I said more?

I really never try to let the tank get below ½, 1/4 on long hauls!

It is your car do as you please
.
You have been so advised!


WOW, just came back from camping and see this, you boys are at it again.:rolleyes: I read what Jim wrote above several times trying to determine if there was anything in his "general note about driving with the low fuel light on" that would hurt my car if I followed his advise; can't think of any scenario that would cause more harm than good from having more fuel in my tank as oppose to driving with the low fuel light on.

I find more advantages if I follow his advise than if I ignore it. Here goes:

I am less likely to run out of gas.
I won't be forced to buy gas from "any 'ol gas station, that comes along"
I believe the less air in my tank, the less condensation (water).
Better traction.
Smoother ride.

I tried to think of something really bad that would happen to my car if I have more fuel in the tank as opposed to having less....sorry I drew a blank.

I'm not a fleet manager, I'm not a master CAR tech.
When I read Jim's advise I find more positives than negatives if I follow his advise....that's all.

[SergntMac]

But what if it's 110 octane race gas?

[shakes_26]

But what if it's 110 octane race gas?

I'll check with my Fleet manager, he knows everything.

[KillJoy]

But what if it's 110 octane race gas?

:poke:

KillJoy

[Haggis]

But what if it's 110 octane race gas?
The world can only wonder.

:popcorn:

[David Morton]

WOW, just came back from camping and see this, you boys are at it again.:rolleyes: I read what Jim wrote above several times trying to determine if there was anything in his "general note about driving with the low fuel light on" that would hurt my car if I followed his advise; can't think of any scenario that would cause more harm than good from having more fuel in my tank as oppose to driving with the low fuel light on.

I find more advantages if I follow his advise than if I ignore it. Here goes:

I am less likely to run out of gas.
I won't be forced to buy gas from "any 'ol gas station, that comes along"
I believe the less air in my tank, the less condensation (water).
Better traction.
Smoother ride.

I tried to think of something really bad that would happen to my car if I have more fuel in the tank as opposed to having less....sorry I drew a blank.

I'm not a fleet manager, I'm not a master CAR tech.
When I read Jim's advise I find more positives than negatives if I follow his advise....that's all.If you don't mind burning the extra fuel to carry around the extra gas there is no downside, for you.

I'm just trying to inject a little truth here and enlighten some superstitious minds and prevent the disease from spreading.

Oh, and GreekGod, everybody knows Tannehauser is the favorite of spiritual Wagner fans. Ride of the Valkyrie is for Nazis.

:lol:

[GreekGod]

Oh, and GreekGod, everybody knows Tannehauser is the favorite of spiritual Wagner fans. Ride of the Valkyrie is for Nazis.

:lol:

Mere mortals cannot ever understand why the gods prefer "Ride of the Valkyries" and Tchaikovsky's "1812 Overture"

poco-a-poco con dido, retardo
<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

[MM2004]

That would be 3 s/c then since I only have 2 :)

Let's hope those last hairs don't go AWOL.

That would mean only 1 S/C install. :D

Mike.

[nomad]

Jim, makes ya' wonder why ya' even try.
:argue: ,:argue:

[Bigdogjim]

Holy ***** guys just fill up your gas tanks and quit nagging eachother

First off my little friend there is no "Holy *****"!

We are having a discussion here that keeps getting hi-jacked.

It's fleet manager vs master wrench.

It's how well do what to care for the car you own?

It's how much time and effort do you want to put into your car?

It's do you plan to keep this or any car?

How much do you depend on you car?

See where this can go?

No end in sight, grab a cold or hot drink and pull up a stool:P

[Bigdogjim]

Jim, makes ya' wonder why ya' even try.
:argue: ,:argue:

You do exist! How are you I miss you!!

I am find and in very good shape.

I sleep very well at night knowing the vehicles in my charge are running at peak preformance!

I do it because I am that kind of guy:rolleyes:

[MM03MOK]

I really never try to let the tank get below ½, 1/4 on long hauls!I ran out of gas once in my life, on a highway, after midnight, with no traffic around, before cell phones existed, alone, in the dark, 10 minutes from home, 25 years ago. I was smart enough to refuse assistance from a creepy stranger in a truck and waited it out until the State Police found me and took me to a gas station for a gallon to get me started again.

Never again! It's not worth the anxiety and potential harm, to me or the car.


J.S. Bach's "Tocatta and Fugue in D Minor" for me. Nothing better on a real pipe organ with lots of stops!! I can feel the vibrations now!!

[Rider90]

First off my little friend there is no "Holy *****"!

We are having a discussion here that keeps getting hi-jacked.

It's fleet manager vs master wrench.

It's how well do what to care for the car you own?

It's how much time and effort do you want to put into your car?

It's do you plan to keep this or any car?

How much do you depend on you car?

See where this can go?

No end in sight, grab a cold or hot drink and pull up a stool:P
Meh....

I ain't little :lol:

[SergntMac]

Meh....

I ain't little I take it you haven't met BigDogJim?

[Bigdogjim]

I take it you haven't met BigDogJim?


Mac: I got a full tank of gas and Chicago is only 760 miles O/W:P

When is the next chicken run? I am so ready:beer:

I need a bacon double cheeseburger:banana:

I'll bring the "Kool-aid" :burnout: :help:

[MarauderMark]

I take it you haven't met BigDogJim?
You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask of the old Lone Ranger
And you don't mess around with Jim
Jim Croce knows:up:

[nomad]

Mac: I got a full tank of gas and Chicago is only 760 miles O/W:P

When is the next chicken run? I am so ready:beer:

I need a bacon double cheeseburger:banana:

I'll bring the "Kool-aid" :burnout: :help:
Hmmm, I could do a Chi-Town run!:burnout:

[bigslim]

Mac: I got a full tank of gas and Chicago is only 760 miles O/W:P

When is the next chicken run? I am so ready:beer:

I need a bacon double cheeseburger:banana:

I'll bring the "Kool-aid" :burnout: :help:
You don't get "Kool-Aid". That is reserved for Jerry's friends the "Trilogy Guys".

[Tallboy]

You don't get "Kool-Aid". That is reserved for Jerry's friends the "Trilogy Guys".

Actually, Jerry is coming out with a new flavor..."Fleet Manager Mango".

Stay tuned...

[Rider90]

I take it you haven't met BigDogJim?
Something tells me that you already knew this...

[the_pack_rat]

:popcorn: :drink: :popcorn:

[DEFYANT]

BUTTERMILK!

:burnout:

[Bigdogjim]

You don't get "Kool-Aid". That is reserved for Jerry's friends the "Trilogy Guys".

You buddy Dave posted on SVT that he was coming to Long Island for a meet and bringing ME Kool-aid! So it's mine!:P

And I am a friend of Jerry!!!:beer:

[Bigdogjim]

Actually, Jerry is coming out with a new flavor..."Fleet Manager Mango".Stay tuned...

I do not like mango? And it needs to sugar free so I can share it with Martyo!!

[Bigdogjim]

Something tells me that you already knew this...

You learn quick little buddy :laugh:

[Bigdogjim]

Anyhow, I'm waiting for the padlock symbol to show up on this one. Poor Bigdog, what a can of worms you've opened. :help:

It did not open a can of anything?

I will pour you a nice tall glass Kool-aid:)

And thanks for thinking of me but I can dish it out and take it!

Fleet manager are resilent:cool:

[BillyGman]

Weather we agree with Jim's assessments of fuel tank levels during the use of our cars or not, I think that Jim's motives were pure in starting this thread, and that he is just looking out for us, and because of that my hat's off to him. Everyone shared their viewpoints, and there were contrasting ones just as there always will be.

But all in all, I think there were numerous thought provoking posts in this thread. Ones that provided some pretty decent info about this topic. And that's all we can ask for out of a car board as far as automotive help goes.

[Fourth Horseman]

I will pour you a nice tall glass Kool-aid:)

Wait, Bigdog... your last name isn't Jones is it? :lol: :beer:

[Ross]

Man, I've had to drink two Shiner Bock beers to get through this thread! Pass the popcorn, Gordon.

[Dragcity]

5 Marzen on-tap for me...

I revert back to my previous post.

Let's all just have a beer, and if you feel you need gas, go get a burrito or something..

Go read one of Motorhead350's posts to lighten your spirits.

When I raced, it was lower tech and I tried to make a balance between weight distribution and total weigh. Never considered my mechanical fuel pump bolted to the side of my block.

I think I am going to pitch my intake, injectors and fuel pump, and put dual quads on my 4.6. I don't like having to worry about this stuff.

[Haggis]

Man, I've had to drink two Shiner Bock beers to get through this thread! Pass the popcorn, Gordon.
...:popcorn:

[Dennis Reinhart]

Just a general note about driving with the "low fuel" light on.

You run a big risk of doing damage to your engine, crap in the bottom of your tank over the years will get pass your fuel filter. Need I said more?

I really never try to let the tank get below &#189;, 1/4 on long hauls!

It is your car do as you please
.
You have been so advised!


Here is why you never want to run a Marauder at WOT with a 1/4 tank or less of gas.


http://web.iwebcenters.com/reinharta...es/baskett.JPG (http://web.iwebcenters.com/reinhartautomotive/images/baskett.JPG)

http://web.iwebcenters.com/reinharta...umpbaskett.JPG (http://web.iwebcenters.com/reinhartautomotive/images/pumpbaskett.JPG)

(http://web.iwebcenters.com/reinhartautomotive/images/fuelfill.JPG)

The gas tank has a steel basket with a 1/2" hole facing the front of the car at WOT all the gas runs to the back of the tank, and some could run out of the hole, there is no way to get gas in the basket during this event, even with the dual or single pump it will do the same thing, The other issue is with even a twin focus fuel pump mounted in the tank with a BAP if the car has less than a 1/4 tank of gas this could even suck the basket dry. Bottom line is keep the proper level in the tank if you are going to the track or just hammering it on the street.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com<O:P></O:P>
<O:P></O:P>

[GreekGod]

Ah Hah!...A tisket, a tasket, no gas in the basket!

[MI2QWK4U]

It must be that Lid and myself have been extremely fortunate then. Like I said, I have run at the track with the low fuel light on and Lid has made a bunch more runs with 1/8th of a tank. Has anyone here actually hurt themselves (as best you can determine) by running less than 1/4 of a tank? We have several supercharged guys here admit to running that low with no ill effects, we need some factual information that will back up that claim of running less than a 1/4 will starve the motor and cause detonation and engine damage.



Here is why you never want to run a Marauder at WOT with a 1/4 tank or less of gas.


http://web.iwebcenters.com/reinharta...es/baskett.JPG (http://web.iwebcenters.com/reinhartautomotive/images/baskett.JPG)

http://web.iwebcenters.com/reinharta...umpbaskett.JPG (http://web.iwebcenters.com/reinhartautomotive/images/pumpbaskett.JPG)

(http://web.iwebcenters.com/reinhartautomotive/images/fuelfill.JPG)

The gas tank has a steel basket with a 1/2" hole facing the front of the car at WOT all the gas runs to the back of the tank, and some could run out of the hole, there is no way to get gas in the basket during this event, even with the dual or single pump it will do the same thing, The other issue is with even a twin focus fuel pump mounted in the tank with a BAP if the car has less than a 1/4 tank of gas this could even suck the basket dry. Bottom line is keep the proper level in the tank if you are going to the track or just hammering it on the street.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com<O:P></O:P>
<O:P></O:P>

[Bigdogjim]

I just need to clear the air at this point in the hi-jacked thread.

My post was aimed at Marauder's and ALL car owners in general.

It has nothing it do with drag racing.

It was an obervation based on 8+years and millions of miles(6,000,000) of fleet management.

Engines are engines.

Preventive maintenance is a concept some will NEVER embrace!

Let alone understand?

[natedog1284]

I get you Jim, I try to never let my fuel get down below a quarter tank, (even before this thread started :eek:). Seems like it's not too much trouble to go to the gas station a little more frequently, especially if it could lengthen the life of the fuel pump; I mean, you're gonna have go eventually, right? Why not just go a little sooner? I wouldn't have figured people would get so worked up about this. Oh well; like I said, your words haven't fallen on deaf ears.

[sweetair]

I agree with the above^^^^^^^. You're just passing along some info. Take from it what you want.

[MarauderMark]

It must be that Lid and myself have been extremely fortunate then. Like I said, I have run at the track with the low fuel light on and Lid has made a bunch more runs with 1/8th of a tank. Has anyone here actually hurt themselves (as best you can determine) by running less than 1/4 of a tank? We have several supercharged guys here admit to running that low with no ill effects, we need some factual information that will back up that claim of running less than a 1/4 will starve the motor and cause detonation and engine damage.
:hmmm:Doesn't mine count?Only thing is mine wasn't below 1/4 Tank.

[MI2QWK4U]

:hmmm:Doesn't mine count?Only thing is mine wasn't below 1/4 Tank.


Sorry Mark, I didnt realize that. Please forgive my ommission.

[MikesMerc]

It must be that Lid and myself have been extremely fortunate then. Like I said, I have run at the track with the low fuel light on and Lid has made a bunch more runs with 1/8th of a tank.


Hmmmm....count me in the "incredibly lucky" bunch too. No less than 50 runs all under 1/4 and closer to 1/8th. Never had an issue. Throwing in Jerry, Slim, Mike Audrey, and all the others that tend to run with less gas in the tank, and I think you have HUNDREDS of passes without a problem.

Mark's case is the only purported example of this alleged problem.

The numbers just don't add up :dunno:

Anyways, I guess for whatever its worth its better to be safe than sorry.

[SergntMac]

Again...

It's been my experience here, that when discussions about a particular topic, or, theme get this long winded and verbose, it's good to page back to the opening post and start again.

Never mind what you think you already know about what's been posted here, just reboot...Wipe your memory clean, and start from the top.

I just did this, took me a mere 2 minutes here, quite a trip it was too.

Therefore, I strongly recommend a fresh "from the top" review with an open mind. You'll be entertained, and educated, it's worth the time.

Again...Happy motoring, gents!

[Leadfoot281]

I smoke three packs of Camels/day and have never used a rubber. Why on Earth would I possibly care about how much fuel is in the tank of my car?:rolleyes:


J/K....I actually smoke two packs a day...:D :D

[Bigdogjim]

I smoke three packs of Camels/day and have never used a rubber. Why on Earth would I possibly care about how much fuel is in the tank of my car?:rolleyes:


J/K....I actually smoke two packs a day...:D :D

Are you bragging or complaining? :rolleyes:

[Leadfoot281]

Actually, I'm just kidding. (J/K)

Seriously, 8 pages on a fuel pump, gas slosh, fuel starvation, motor damage, conspiracy, drag racing, multi-highjacked, thread? 8 pages....

Actually, I was just kidding, AND making a point/joke about what things people find to worry about. What's your cholesteral level? Lol! Mod motors can be rebuilt....



What, me worry? Never Lol!:)

[DefyantExWife]

I fill up when I need to, that is, when I don't have enough gas to get to where I intend to go. What's the psycology in that?


Ditto that :D

[Dennis Reinhart]

Actually, I'm just kidding. (J/K)

Seriously, 8 pages on a fuel pump, gas slosh, fuel starvation, motor damage, conspiracy, drag racing, multi-highjacked, thread? 8 pages....

Actually, I was just kidding, AND making a point/joke about what things people find to worry about. What's your cholesteral level? Lol! Mod motors can be rebuilt....



What, me worry? Never Lol!:)

Well its never boring for sure. Has all the makings of a great soap opera, as the stomach turns.

:beer:

[Bigdogjim]

Well its never boring for sure. Has all the makings of a great soap opera, as the stomach turns.

:beer:

Those that think they know everything annoy those of us that do :laugh:

[Bigdogjim]

I was just looking at the view vs replies....If each poster is looking then it's 21 per person posting? I know some read but do not post.

Maybe I'll ask Logan to give a "Fleet Managers Forum"....:laugh:

This way I can help you keep the marauders running in tip top shape!

[MikesMerc]

Maybe I'll ask Logan to give a "Fleet Managers Forum"....:laugh:

This way I can help you keep the marauders running in tip top shape!

We have over 675 power units in our trucking company fleet that I manage every cent spent for maintenance and repairs.

Can I join the Fleet Manager's forum too? :)

[DEFYANT]

Hey, I have my own little fleet....

Four cars
Two bikes
A Barbie jeep
A Grave Digger jeep
and two razor scooters
:D

Can I join?

[RoyLPita]

Lets see what I've got to maintain:
my MM
my mother's car
my grandmother's car
3 bicycles
95 Cobra R r/c car
and the rest of my matchbox car collection.

How about me? :lol:

[GreekGod]

Well its never boring for sure. Has all the makings of a great soap opera, as the stomach turns.

:beer:


Or a Greek tragedy from Aristotle. Bigdogjim is the protagonist:thinker:, David Morton is the antagonist :mad2: , GreekGod and Dennis Reinhart appear from the heavens as "deus ex machina" :director: :director: . With a few bad guys thrown in. :stooges: :duel: :pirate:

[MERCMAN]

I was just looking at the view vs replies....If each poster is looking then it's 21 per person posting? I know some read but do not post.

Maybe I'll ask Logan to give a "Fleet Managers Forum"....:laugh:

This way I can help you keep the marauders running in tip top shape!
\
That would only work if you were the the Fleet enema manager, that way you could keep the BS from backing up the board.:beer:

[SergntMac]

Or a Greek tragedy from Aristotle. Bigdogjim is the protagonist:thinker:, David Morton is the antagonist :mad2: , GreekGod and Dennis Reinhart appear from the heavens as "deus ex machina" :director: :director: . With a few bad guys thrown in. :stooges: :duel: :pirate:Nope...Not going there. Not for one second.

[Paul T. Casey]

I smoke three packs of Camels/day and have never used a rubber. Why on Earth would I possibly care about how much fuel is in the tank of my car?:rolleyes:


J/K....I actually smoke two packs a day...:D :D

Sounds like my life story, except the fuel tank part, and the 2 packs part. I'm around 3.

[Bigdogjim]

We have over 675 power units in our trucking company fleet that I manage every cent spent for maintenance and repairs.

Can I join the Fleet Manager's forum too? :)

Yes you may enter as I am sure you have seen first hand how cutting corners will cost even more down the road.

Glad to have you onboard!

[Bigdogjim]

\
That would only work if you were the the Fleet enema manager, that way you could keep the BS from backing up the board.:beer:

Well buddy on that note I think I need an VACATION!:rolleyes:

[Bradley G]

I suppose that depends on your point of reference.
Meh....

I ain't little :lol: