Primer spots?!

[capt512]

:help: Hey guys and gals,
I was cleaning up the car yesterday, which is only one week old, and i noticed several areas where the factory missed painting. (1) Inside of wheel wells. (2) Behind both front fenders in area where front door hinges attach. (3) Inside front fender wells under hood beside battery on left and air cleaner on right.
I would like to know if any other MM owners have run into this problem.
While it doesn't affect the outwards appearance I am concerned about rust.
Any input any of you have on this matter would be greatly appreciated.
Have a great day
Mike

[MMM2003]

Welcome to the club. Several other members have already reported on this. Not sure how they handled it. I beleive the general consence is, to not let the dealer try to touch it up.
Best to do a search and see what others did.

Talk to Dennis Reinhardt (or look up his post), he's got a story to tell !

Good luck.

[Warpath]

Same with most Fords. The inside of my gas fill behind the tank door is primer too.

[merc406]

That's not primer but sealer. Won't absorb water like primer, have some spots on a 20 year old Merc. never rusted.

[Warpath]

I hope you're right. It looks cheap nonetheless.

[Bowman9]

The word on the street is that all auto makers are going cheap on the paint.
It all has to do with EPA factory emissions.
What they are doing is shooting the cars with colored primer/sealer, then shooting the outer surface with real paint.
Look under the hood or trunk of any new car or truck and you'll see what I mean.
My brothers Chrysler van and my friends Dodge Intrepid are the same way.

[SergntMac]

IMHO...I think quality of paint issues go hand in hand with life expectancy of American automobiles at large. In a general sense, we are not keeping our cars as long as we used to, so, if there is any place where the manfacturer can reduce costs and not get caught up in overall quality issues, they will. Paint and longevity, are not used in the same sentence anymore, after four or five years, we move on anyway, let the next owner deal with it....IMHO.

[jgc61sr2002]

Originally posted by Bowman9
The word on the street is that all auto makers are going cheap on the paint.
It all has to do with EPA factory emissions.
What they are doing is shooting the cars with colored primer/sealer, then shooting the outer surface with real paint.
Look under the hood or trunk of any new car or truck and you'll see what I mean.
My brothers Chrysler van and my friends Dodge Intrepid are the same way. I too think that it is primer. My 2000 GM seemed to have paint and clearcoat on the underside of the trunk lid. I purchased a fuel door for my MM and it was primed black. My body shop tells me all ford sheetmetal is done in black primer. John

[BigMerc]

All of us have some problem with the crappy paint, I have already resigned myself to have the car painted with a superior paint job, one of those 3 inch deep look black paint jobs.
The paint shop is good and thorough but quality sure aint job 1 anymore on any thing Ford or Merc., profit is job 1!!
I never paid this much for anything and love the car but im in so deep on this thing i'll never be able to sell it.

[vaderv]

Sarge I have to dissagree with you on this one! I am a paint repairman at F.M.C. I work at the Focus plant in Wayne MI. If I or anyone else at Wayne Assembly allowed a paint job like the one on my Marauder to escape the factory we would be fired. Without a doubt the Canadian plant that built our cars is by far the worst in the Ford system quality wise. The numbers I'm seeing are at best ridiculous as far as the St. plant goes. Mind you ladies and gents I go all over the world to look at paint systems. I mentioned this in another post. The Wixsom Lincoln plant may be closed so their production can be sent to canada even though the st. plant is the worst in the Ford system now. This is as disgusting as it is ridiculous.:rolleyes:

[RCSignals]

Originally posted by jgc61sr2002
My body shop tells me all ford sheetmetal is done in black primer. John

That's the replacement parts.
The primer used for the cars at the factory is light grey, and very well applied
The colour coat, especially Black, is flat, looking a lot like primer, without the clear coat applied.
What you see under the trunk lid is colour coat without the clearcoat.

[RCSignals]

vaderv
The odd part of it is the St Thomas plant has a brand new, supposedly state of the art, paint system. I heard it's contained in a new building.

[vaderv]

Ford factory paint jobs for paintcode ua, i.e. black. The first coat after a phosphate etching bath is an electrocote that is greenish grey. They then go through an oven to cure that. Next comes a primer coat that is color keyed. The black cars get a black primer coat. That gets oven cured againt then it gets its black paint then clearcoat then oven cured again. As for "state of the art" read that robots. The state of robot brains and the speed at which they can operate isnt yet conducive to the many variables in a liquid application process, i.e. sealer or paint. They also dont see when they make a mistake such as a sealer skip or thin paint. Hence crappy paintjob. We fight this stuff at our plant all the time. No one likes robots from management on down. But unfortunately they look good on paper so we have to deal with them. In order to fix this YOU the customer have to complain about every little thing. This is important as it doesnt become a quality issue without customer complaints.

[vaderv]

You should not only bing it to the dealer to get fixed (I know its a pain in the but), but also call Mercurys customer complaint line. Write letters to the glasshouse and so on. We pay big money for cars the very last thing we should have to worry about is garbage paint jobs. I cannot stress this enough, it's more important than you'll ever know. What your complaints do is give the "car guys" at ford or any company amunition against the bean counters. The car guy ( I'd like to think I'm one) are on your side. The bean counters arent. Complain often to everyone at Merc and Fords you can find!

[RCSignals]

vaderv
Is that colour keyed primer standard across all Ford factories? Looking at a number of new CV/GM/MM, as well as my own, it would appear that the primer on these cars is not colour keyed.

Are these robots not programmed by recording a human paint the vehicle, duplicating those actions?
One thing that is definite with the cars from the St Thomas plant, there are specific areas that do not get enough colour coat.
(and when light grey shows through that black colour coat, if the primer is black, there is a definite lack of or no primer!)
You would think that by now, inspections of these cars would have led to corrections to the painting program.

[vaderv]

First question there are 4 colors of prime. Black for dark colors like Dark Blue black and Dark greens. A reddish primer for reds and such. A light grey for for silvers light blues and greens gold and such and white for white cars. Second while some robot companies do use human spayers as a referance point all the computing power in the world right now cannot possibly compensate for all the variables involved. Paint flow just between to differnt colors would amaze you not to mention pump and temp variables. Three I know at my plant they have cut inspectors to the bone and even when an inspetor knocks something down, foremen will sometimes pull the ticket to ship it anyways. They are under extreme pressure to get a certain number. This is why I have said complain complain complain. Also rc if under your deck and hood are black you have black prime. They dont get a finish coat or clear there anymore. Another great thing we learned from the Japanese and European car builders...All north American ford Lincoln and Mercury are suppose to use the same processes as far as paint layering goes. Standards like these save money and are supposed to help with consistancy. And 1 more thing one reason you see a lot of thin paint in the doorframes is that some idiot in fords noticed certain big name carmakers not priming the doorframes to save money!!! Its real hard for a sprayer to get enough paint in two doorframes without saggin it in 60 seconds robotic or not. Thin is easier to let slide in managements eyes than a big drip.

[RCSignals]

vader, yes, almost every CV/GM/MM I've seen has had thin colour coat in the lower rear door frame.
The Blue cars do not just have black under the trunk lid, they have blue colour coat, without the clear coat of course. I was led to believe, and it looks to me, that on the Black CV/GM/MM it is bare colour coat under the trunk lid.
It's funny how this is accepted by the buyers of the certain big name carmakers, yet not by Ford buyers.
I agree, complain about the paint problems, it's the only way they'll stop shipping the mistakes.

At least they scrapped that single step colour system they had at one time. Wasn't it Dupont that sold them (and others) on it?

[vaderv]

blue cars of course have blue under hood and deck but youll notice there isnt any metalflake or pearl in it. Also a big prob is that believe it or not most people even though upset by the crummy job dont complain...

[Marauderman]

I noticed my (new) replacement trunk deck and engine hood were shiny clear-coated black lookingon the underside but the outside was a dark black primer ...therefore needing completion at the bodyshop here at the LM dealearship...so are you saying that the underside which looks shiny and pretty as described IS NOT the clearcoated finish the car should look like when finished by the body shop...or just the look a-like in a primer shin mood...am a bit confused.....

[Marauderman]

Oh by the way---they were shipped direct from St Thomas which would have them going on an MM there but sent to my dealers's body shop instead--cause it had stickers pretty much saying that....

[jgc61sr2002]

Tom - The primer on replacement parts is quite shiny although there is no clearcoat. All ford replacement parts use black primer. John

[Dennis Reinhart]

Originally posted by vaderv
Sarge I have to dissagree with you on this one! I am a paint repairman at F.M.C. I work at the Focus plant in Wayne MI. If I or anyone else at Wayne Assembly allowed a paint job like the one on my Marauder to escape the factory we would be fired. Without a doubt the Canadian plant that built our cars is by far the worst in the Ford system quality wise. The numbers I'm seeing are at best ridiculous as far as the St. plant goes. Mind you ladies and gents I go all over the world to look at paint systems. I mentioned this in another post. The Wixsom Lincoln plant may be closed so their production can be sent to canada even though the st. plant is the worst in the Ford system now. This is as disgusting as it is ridiculous.:rolleyes:

I agree the entire trunk is not painted under the carpet. I made them repaint the whole trunk on both cars, and the Saint Thomas plant does piss por qualty, they call it standard for the industry, I call it piss poor quality controll and attention to detail.

[RCSignals]

Originally posted by marauderman
it had stickers pretty much saying that....

There were stickers with someone Else's VIN on them?

All the removable painted body parts on our cars fenders, doors, hood, trunk lid have a sticker with the VIN on them.

I've heard if a car is messed up in assembly, it's disassembled at the plant and the parts redistributed. I wonder if that's where yours came from?

[RCSignals]

Originally posted by jgc61sr2002
Tom - The primer on replacement parts is quite shiny although there is no clearcoat. All ford replacement parts use black primer. John

I don't think the shiny coating is primer. it's more of an electrostaticly applied coating to protect the metal part, and is meant to be prepped and primed over before the colour coat is applied.

[RCSignals]

Originally posted by Dennis Reinhart
I agree the entire trunk is not painted under the carpet. .

that's true, but then when ever were cars painted completely under carpet areas?
I know in many cars of US manufacture from years past that had bare metal in places that you can't see. Under the dash area, in the trunk area's etc. At least the first coat od rust protection is applied everywhere these days.
Now if they could only apply the colour coat as well.......

[screamdennis]

for the price we paid for our cars , it sure is a pain to have to deal with paint issues, I still havent heard from the body shop and the ford sm on the paint problem with my mm yet

[Dennis Reinhart]

Originally posted by RCSignals
I don't think the shiny coating is primer. it's more of an electrostaticly applied coating to protect the metal part, and is meant to be prepped and primed over before the colour coat is applied.


Well RC every other later Model Ford Lincoln Mercury is

[engine23ccvfd]

Seems to me the paint is soft...I have a tight squeeze in the the garage and am constantly running my hip with cell phone into the car/truck. My truck may get a very little scratch but it seems the MM will gouge down to the metal.... Is there are paint softness factor (not sure of the techinical term here)?

[RCSignals]

Originally posted by engine23ccvfd
Seems to me the paint is soft...

Yess, seems to me the clear coat is somewhat soft

[RCSignals]

Originally posted by Dennis Reinhart
Well RC every other later Model Ford Lincoln Mercury is

Dennis, you mean electrostactically coated?

[vaderv]

I cant say on replacement parts as to whether they have clearcoat undersides onn hoods and decks. factory paintjobs dont anymore.

[vaderv]

Dennis no they arnt. If paint is under carpet in deck it is the result of overspray. On small cars i e stangs and focus it can almost appear that they were painted this way but its just overspray. Some of these paints cost Fords almost $300.00 american per gallon, as a result anywhere thats "covered" doesnt get paint. We dont like it but the bean counters do.
RC yes your clear is softer than the older paints. Believe it or not this clear cost more! It cuts down on stone chips.

[jgc61sr2002]

The almighty dollar. FMC is always looking for ways to cut costs. By not painting areas covered by carpet etc they save big $. When you add up the number of cars produced they save big bucks. IMHO. John

[engine23ccvfd]

well I would go cheap onstuff that is hidden from view how is Ford gonna look in three years when all there cars have **** paint

[ChuckB]

My .02 says the paint quality and finish for the MM is probably one of the worst i've seen on any new car. Regardless of the unfortunate trend of cutting corners.

this weekend i spent repainting my grill (filled in the badge - just didn't like the badge and look turned it into verticle bars - looks real sharp) and refinishing the front bumper skin - cortesy of a local gravel truck. after i got the bumper skin off easy to notice no clear coat on the underside and in the driving light recesses. the clear and base that was there was so thin literally 3 strokes wet sand with 400 grit went thru both. this got me looking over the car closely and found numerous flaws and areas "unseen" without clear coat or finish issues.

no wonder people are getting scratches just brushing by. the paints less than 0.001" thick. Man this should send a real message to folks using the clay bars - don't! You may end up painting sooner than you think - most likely at your expense already hearing about FMC's wonderfully supporting warrenty programs.

It's all well and good to hear about the quality of the product from the factories- but looking at the finish of a $35K dollar car like this is truely the acid test. and for me it fails.

[engine23ccvfd]

Well Said ChuckB....Class Action anyone?

[ChuckB]

not sure i'm up for class action just yet - just real dissapointed in the car in some ways. Don't get me wrong enjoy the MM and have taken it on as a project as many of us have, but the initial power / torque and paint / finish issues are pretty big dollar and effort ones to fix.

for John Q Public the paint issues and quality will probably go largely un-noticed. But for the MM owners and especially active members on this site whom seem to be a much more of an enthusiast it's these sort of large details that seperate the men from the boys. these "eyes" for quality and detail really do make a difference.

now about 6 coats of "cadzilla" PPG black highly hand sanded followed by 3 or so iridescent clear lapped in between with a final Dupont 3600 clear coat....would even make a black hole look flat and pale. (Me thinks i have a summer project forming...wifes gonna be pissed)

[vaderv]

BTW a friends neighbor is a "big shot" Mercury factory rep ( or what we used to call a factory rep). He and my friend stopped by the house to look at the paint on my MM and said its the that hes been real busy approving paintjobs for GM CV AND MMs. They are aware of the problem. Keep complaining ladies and gents. He also mentioned something about heads rollin... ; )

[vaderv]

Just a quick point. I work in a Ford paint shop. I'm also more than a little embarrased by these cost cuts that cause the buying public to get inferior work. I am not defending nor do I condone this practice. I would like you to know that the average Ford line rat is getting sick of the cuts also. We as a whole take our jobs very seriously (hell I have to look my family in the eye). Lately due to management having cranium rectus and making cuts where they can't or shouldnt be made it has become downright embarrasing to work where I do. Most of us including production management are working real hard to turn this around as fast as possible to fix what the bean counters have broke.
This is not just a Ford issue.

[RCSignals]

Originally posted by vaderv

This is not just a Ford issue.

that's true. Despite Car+Driver declaring the Hummer H2 a "winner" and the Marauder a "loser"
JD Power has declared the Hummer to be the SUV reported as worst for overall problems, quality, fit and finish, and mpg.