Engine Noise

[capt512]

Morning all,
I am writing as when I was taking my son to school this morning I heard what sounds like lifter noise.

I guess a better way to describe it would be that when starting off and up until about 3000 RPM the engine sounded like a diesel.
Not real loud but loud enough to be heard with the windows up and the radio on.

I'm wondering if others of you have experienced this issue and if so what the Problem and solution was.
I only have 386 miles on this engine.

Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Mike

[MMM2003]

Warranty !
Take it to the Dealer quickly.
Sorry no idea, what the cause might be. Do a search for "engine noise". You might find someone how already described the same noise.

Good luck and let us know how things worked out.

[WolfeBros]

Capt,
Alot of us have heard slight clicking noises which have been attributed to be coming from the fuel injectors and fuel rails. This is apparently normal with this engine configuration. That being said, noise is hard to define and your description makes it sound worse than others. Take it to the dealer and let the SM take a drive with you to determine if this is anything out of the ordinary.

[capt512]

Wolfe,
Did that. Took it straight to the dealer and he said that it would be a week or so before the "Engine guy" could diagnose the problem and that they wouldn't have a loaner for me for a week.

He then said ,well its under warranty so don't worry about it.

I have a bad feeling about this dealerships service department.

When I mentioned ruling out the injector. fuel rail noise I'd heard of on the Internet he went nuts. Went into how the Internet has caused them so many headaches by all these so called mechanics diagnosing problems.

I said well I've found a lot of good information that LM certainly didn't provide and that a lot of the information actually keeps a lot of us from over running the service departments.

He didn't like that response.

I wonder if theres any way to find out which dealerships are the best?

Thanks,
Mike

[WolfeBros]

This guy sounds like a moron. You should not have to wait a week to have an engine noise problem diagnosed. He says the internet causes him problems ?? What about telling a guy to continue to drive his car without diagnosing the problem because it is UNDER WARRANTY.

Run, don't walk out of there ......there has to be a better dealership to deal with.:rolleyes:

By the way.....this so called internet mechanic has been at it for over 35 years and could probably diagnose this problem with a wood handle screwdriver within a few minutes.:confused:

Sorry for the rant but these dealership people in general really piss me off with their stupid attitudes........and knowledge of automobiles.

[MMM2003]

Go get 'em Wolfe !

Capt512, I liked your response.

-Quote"I said well I've found a lot of good information that LM certainly didn't provide and that a lot of the information actually keeps a lot of us from over running the service departments."

Very well said. Go find another Dealer, that cares.

[LincMercLover]

These dealerships have been accustomed to dealer with the little 70-80 year old lady who brings her GM/TC in saying, "It quit..." They have NO clue how to deal with a crowd like us who are meticulous with our vehicles.

[merc406]

Is some of this noise not coming from the timing chain with steel sprockets along with the fuel injector rail noise?
I know I can hear my solid lifters and steel sprockets, driving in one car compared to the other.

[SergntMac]

Originally posted by LincMercLover
These dealerships have been accustomed to dealer with the little 70-80 year old lady who brings her GM/TC in saying, "It quit..." They have NO clue how to deal with a crowd like us who are meticulous with our vehicles.

I agree. Not only are we more intimately involved with the maintainence and repair of our MMs, we are more aware of problems common among any mass-produced automobile at large. We are more picky, fussy, and maybe whiny too, than the average LM customer and I think that this is to our benefit. When we say "it quit," we want to hear more than "it's fixed" when we return. We ask about parts replaced, part numbers, repair proceedure codes, TSBs and so on. Not your routine LM repair depot traffic, eh?

In theory, the MM rolls off the production line in clone-like identical trim to the next. Discovering that one or more slipped through with a defect, or, a production line deficiency of some sort, ala' sub-woofer rattle, and wanting action on that rattle whether we hear it or not, is something LM wasn't braced for. Despite LMs almost pin point precision prediction of the average MM buyer, they didn't prepare themselves for the end affect of us hooking up with each other over the Internet and sharing tales. Shame on them.

Your dealer may be distrusting and critical of the 411 we pass along to each other, but it's the dealers themselves who are behind in servicing the technology they sell. Perhaps a DOHC motor is not new to FMC in general, but the MM and Aviator are the first LM vehicles to see a V8 DOHC engine, and I'm not surprised that they scratch their heads, but who's fault is that?

Capt...if the noise you hear could also be described as I hear it, a "clickity-clack" that seems to have a beat to it, it's probably the fuel rails, and maybe, the sound of dual cams at work. My SM and wrench listened to my motor some time ago, and said it was normal engine noise. SM said that if it really bugged me, I could replace the cheap stamped steel valve covers with something thicker, and it would go away. Maybe some day, but for now, I'll live with it.

[capt512]

Thanks Sarge, and all you other guys who have responded to this and other threads I've posted.

Your so right about LM.

If they targeted us correctly then someone dropped the ball when it came to realizing that a lot, probably most of us know a thing or two about how a drivetrain is supposed to work and sound.
Their obviously frustrated with our knowledge and our inquiries.
I wonder how many of these service advisors and 'Driveability Techs", would be so quick to dismiss a unusual or disturbing noise if it were there car that they had just spent 27-28K on.

It might not be a bad idea for LM to step into this century and realize that the internet does exist and that there are a number of car clubs and car owners who utilize lots of different information sources to be better informed.

In essence we are neutralizing :flamer: the advantage they had over owners because of the advantage our combined knowledge provides.

You'd think they'd realize that class action lawsuits and bad publicity come about from ignoring or trying to cover up faulty products and service and that if their Demographics are true,then they picked the wrong," Knowledgeable" people to mess with.

All you guys and gals have a great and safe weekend.

Mike

[BlackHole]

Sarg: the Mark VIII was the first Lincoln with the Intec 32 Valve V8
The last model Continental Had the same DOHC 4.6 Intec but FWD. Just some info about what LM had the Intec first. But your right about the Marauder having the first for a merc.

[martyo]

Originally posted by SergntMac
Capt...if the noise you hear could also be described as I hear it, a "clickity-clack" that seems to have a beat to it, it's probably the fuel rails, and maybe, the sound of dual cams at work. My SM and wrench listened to my motor some time ago, and said it was normal engine noise.


This is excatly what my dealer told me yesterday when I took the car in with the same complaint.

[vaderv]

My 2 cents. I have not heard anything that sounds remotely like valve noise. I have owned 3 new cars with the 4.6. IMO anyone who says that it is a Ford and therefore makes tappet noise is sleepin in the 60s. This is something that the afflicted should not tolerate!

[nexstar7]

do***ent everything. trust me . i had to shell out for a new motor once. tell the guy to put it on paper the miles it had when you brought it in for the problem. and for gods sake .DON'T DRIVE IT.

[phil]

find another dealer that will be glad to help,that service manager should be canned!!! im a ford tech been with same dealer 12 years and have never heard that from a manager,find out who his rep is,and tell him what happened,but if they say i needs a motor make sure it's not a reman,you want a new motor!!! not a AER gunk phil

[capt512]

Morning Guys and Gals,
Just wanted to let you know after reading all your replies that the noise I was hearing is indeed the fuel rails and injectors.
The old wooden handle screwdriver stethoscope did the trick.
Thanks again.
Mike

[CC-TX Marauder]

:mad2: D#@$%&, I'VE JUST ABOUT HAD IT! ABOUT TO PLACE A WELL-KEPT MACHINE ON THE MARKET AND BY SOMETHING SOMEONE CAN WORK ON DOWN HERE. I'VE JUST BEEN TOLD THAT THE NOISE I'M HEARING IS FUEL RAIL NOISE. AFTER A BRIEF MOMENT UNDER THE HOOD WITH MY LM MECHANIC, HE HAS DECIDED WITH ME THAT IT IS INTERNAL. AFTER LEAVING IT FOR ANOTHER DAY, THEY NOW HAVE DECIDED THAT IT IS NORMAL NOISE. I'VE GOT AN APPOINTMENT WITH THE FORD REP, WHENEVER SHE ARRIVES, BUT THIS IS FRUSTRATING.

THE MF'S TREAT YOU LIKE A NON-MECHANICAL "MAROON" AND DON'T REALIZE THAT THERE ARE PEOPLE OUT THERE DRIVING CARS THAT UNDERSTAND WHAT TAKES PLACE UNDER THE HOOD, SOMETIMES ALL THE WAY DOWN TO THE METALLURGY.

MY DEALER IS PAGAN-LEWIS IN CORPUS CHRISTI AND I HAVE TO SAY RIGHT NOW ""BEWARE!!!"" :flamer:

I WENT IN WITH SIX (6) DIFFERENT ISSUES AND CAME OUT WITH ONE FIXED (AIR BAG INDICATOR LIGHT) AND I'M NOT SURE THAT THEY DIDN'T JUST UNPLUG IT.

SORRY FOR VENTING! Now has there been any other discussion about tapping or knocking in the engine being normal? This is definitely coming from inside the engine, and is located only on the driver's side. It is very apparent and EMBARRASSING when pulling into a drive thru to pick up a burger and fries. It reverberates off the wall and sounds exactly like solid lifter noise, except that it is only one cylinder producing the noise. Listening at the tail pipe, a muffled subtle thud seems to be very much in time with the tappet noise.

Don't want to have to go into the other nagging problem of front end vibration at this time :coolman:

Anyway, I've decided to take "the way a dealer messes up a good name" to the 'Quality is Job 1' people and write a series of letters to William Clay Ford, Jr. and Steve Babcock, as well as CC to John Pagan (dealer) describing what it looks like from this end. Then it's time to get rid of this heartburn and buy an Accord from another South Texas Dumb A$$ Dealer! NOT!!!

Thank you Logan and all for starting and keeping this forum together. I just wish I had more good things to say.

DP

[Logan]

Have you thought about going to a different dealer? The dealer makes all the difference.

All of us DFW Marauders get treated like kings at John Eagle Lincoln Mercury here in Dallas...

[CC-TX Marauder]

That is another option. Just have to go out of town to do so, or just take it to the Ford dealer. Listening to what people paid for their Marauders is depressing. I gave Pagan - Lewis a bunch of money (Stupidity on my part!) and I would expect them to treat their purchasers better. But I understand, maybe it's time to go out of town. Better call the rental car people.

Thanks,

DP

[cyclone03]

AS you know any Noise you can hear over the radio inside the car with the windows up is not normal!

[Agent M79]

I drive 90 minutes through the most infuriating traffic to get to a dealer that knows what they are doing.

[CC-TX Marauder]

I think I'm getting the hint now... might even try the chevy dealer

[GordonB]

CC-TX Marauder,
Is there a good Ford dealer that the local Hi-Po Mustang people frequent that you could at least go to and get another opinion?
GordonB.

[frdwrnch]

Thanks Agent! We appreciate your business.

[frdwrnch]

I've seen acouple of these where normal engine noise is being conducted into the passenger compartment via the throttle cable or shift cable being laid up against the injector rail. This is usually corrected by relocating the cable and maybe a little well placed foam tape on the cable. This concern usually sounds like a clock running inside the vehicle.
That being said, if the noise is profound outside the vehicle w/hood shut then you probably have an issue. I recommend that a qulified tech w/4.6DOHC experience evaluate the vehicle as noise travels in strange ways in an all aluminum engine. Hammer handles aren't the best diagnostic tools.

[TripleTransAm]

Sounds like the ticking valve guide(s) I had in my faulty driver's side head.

By the way, my car is ultra quiet now. Maybe I have just become desensitized to MPFI engines but I don't even notice fuel injector noise on this 4.6l either, nor can I say my valvetrain makes any noise either. I'm happy with the outcome of my (mis)adventure this past October.

[Dr Caleb]

Originally posted by frdwrnch
Hammer handles aren't the best diagnostic tools.

No you need the whole hammer.

IDtenT user: "My computer is giving me an error"
Me:*BANG* *BANG**BANG**BANG* *BANG**BANG**BANG**BANG**BANG* *BANG**BANG*
IDtenT user: "What was wrong?"
Me. A Byte was stuck in the CPU manifold. The Compaq Tool fixed it.

[vegasmarauder]

TripleTransAm
I PM you a few times in the past about the ticking. I thought I had it, but it went away. Seems it goes away when I drive it hard, but comes back a day or two later with easy driving. The 300A is super quiet, but the B sounds like a 200K mile beater at idle. Was yours intermittant? Oh, and I checked on that part number from the Blue Oval site and it reverts back to the original aprt number. Parts computer says the "new" more recent number is not available. I will seee if theres a way to override this. I want to order the correct head in for the parts dept before i take the car in for repair to elimate excessive down time and getting the wrong new part..

[TripleTransAm]

VegasMarauder, yes I remember your PMs (I believe I did provide you with all the info I had)

Yes, you have to try to override this "new" part number. I can't possibly know what they're really trying to do but off the top of my head, I come up with:
1 - Marauder owners aren't as performance minded as Cobra owners, and hence won't mind getting the same casting once again, even taking into account the risk of renewed ticking down the road.
2 - We've got all this extra stock of the old casting, we have to try to offload them on someone... we can't do this with the Mustang Cobra crowd, they'll eat us alive, so let's try to clear out the stock on those handful of Marauder owners out there. They won't notice...

I'm not saying the old casting won't cure the ticking problem, whether for good or at least for the next 10 years. Based on the fact that I've seen Marauders with the original casting running absolutely quiet in all situations and all driving styles, I think it's a hit-and-miss as to whether an original casting Marauder will develop this ticking.

However, my two predominant character traits are that I hate having to do stuff twice, and I want my money's worth. I paid good coin for my 'performance sedan' and while the performance has been outstanding, I don't want my 'new' sedan sounding like a 200,000 miler (I think my 78's 110,000 mile valvetrain is quieter). And I don't want to have to keep listening closely at every engine startup, dreading the day I'd get the same ticking sound once again.

As for the sound going away and coming back, I can't explain. Mine was fairly constant at idle, not very noticeable once above 1500 RPM or so. Although my technician did claim it was slightly louder when cold. *shrug*


Extra thought about the easy/hard driving: maybe some hard driving burns away from accumulated carbon from the valves? Although one would expect this would lead to sloppier clearances, resulting in a noisier operation. Maybe it's a matter of accumulated carbon deposits on the valve seats making it harder for the valves to seat properly, resulting in the sideways "tick" within the worn guides?

[frdwrnch]

I was unaware of a known concern w/4.6L 4V valve guides or heads. There was a TSB just released for a problem on the 2V heads. Their issue is with valve guides and lifter bore clearance.

[TripleTransAm]

Originally posted by frdwrnch
I was unaware of a known concern w/4.6L 4V valve guides or heads. There was a TSB just released for a problem on the 2V heads. Their issue is with valve guides and lifter bore clearance.


There definitely is something out there, but it doesn't seem to be addressing the Marauder, only the Cobra. I printed out the BON article quoting the replacement head part number when I first approached my dealer, but my technician had no trouble finding the exact same article on the Ford system (which pretty much convinced me that BON is just a series of leaked TSBs or other bulletins that are over-dramatized).

I think if enough technicians protest, they'll extend the TSB/whatever to the Marauder as well as the Cobra... they are the same heads, after all (and same cams and same valves and....)

[handlon]

my LM dealer is trying to fix the clicking but so far has been unsucceefull. last attempt was head replacement, same clicking. here in kansas we have a lemon law & i now qualify for it, but i really want to keep my car. i guess we just keep trying.

[merc406]

Did they check your oil pressure?

[RF Overlord]

Originally posted by merc406
Did they check your oil pressure?


Originally posted by TAF
Thanks a lot, merc406...you've just given RF another chance to make an oil thread out of this... :rolleyes:

[merc406]

Man, what was I thinkin!! lol!!

[jfclancy]

Go to the Ford web site and complain there is an actual Complaint link Whatever IMHO I would not drive it. Unless the
service writer put his remark in writing.

Joe Clancy

[handlon]

Originally posted by capt512
Morning all,
I am writing as when I was taking my son to school this morning I heard what sounds like lifter noise.

I guess a better way to describe it would be that when starting off and up until about 3000 RPM the engine sounded like a diesel.
Not real loud but loud enough to be heard with the windows up and the radio on.

I'm wondering if others of you have experienced this issue and if so what the Problem and solution was.
I only have 386 miles on this engine.

Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Mike

[handlon]

hi ive had this noise for about 6 months the dealer has retorker the heads, put new lifters, & a new head on ,ive still got the noise they are talking new engine now. i know this is no help. you are not an isolated case. better head for the dealer.