Panther chassis related news from Ford...

[GreekGod]

Auto news

Ford intends to update frequently

Competitors drive need for changes
June 16, 2006

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FREE PRESS WASHINGTON STAFF


<!-- SIDEBAR PHOTOS AND FACT BOXES --><!-- ARTICLE SIDEBAR --><!--MAIN PHOTO--><!--THEME LINKS--><!--RELATED ARTICLE LINKS--><!--RELATED EXTERNAL LINKS--><!--PHOTO GALLERY LINKS--><!--MAIN FACTS BOX-->Extended shutdowns

After four months of falling sales, Ford Motor Co. will lengthen summer shutdowns at some North American factories, the head of the automaker's operations in the continent said.

"We do have a two-week shutdown, and where we have a lack of demand at some plants we've extended that," executive vice president Mark Fields told reporters Wednesday in Washington, D.C. He declined to say which factories would be idled longer.

The company probably will announce production plans for July, when the shutdowns usually begin, in the next week or two, Fields said. Ford said June 1 that, for the quarter that starts next month, it will build 2.5% fewer cars and trucks than a year earlier in North America.

The longer shutdowns could be at plants such as Wayne; Louisville, Ky., and St. Paul, Minn., that produce trucks, analyst Erich Merkle at consulting firm IRN Inc. said.


Bloomberg<!--ADDITIONAL FACTS-->
<!-- BODY TEXT --><!--ARTICLE BODY TEXT-->WASHINGTON -- Ford Motor Co.'s top North American official says the company no longer can build some models for years with just cosmetic changes to save costs, as growing competition demands more frequent and thorough updates.
More than any other automaker, Ford has maximized its profits by minimizing its capital spending on certain models. Ford's Panther platform, the basis for the Crown Victoria, Grand Marquis and Town Car, has been in production since 1978 with only occasional changes in styling.
The underpinnings of the Ford Ranger were launched in 1983, and the previous generation of Mustangs rode the Fox platform for 25 years.
That strategy was rooted in traditional economics of building cars.
The cost of factory machinery is spread over a number of years, and once that machinery is paid off the cost of making the vehicle plunges. Despite being sold mostly to taxicab companies and limousine fleets, the Crown Victoria has been among Ford's most profitable vehicles in recent years. It is also the top-selling police cruiser.
But Mark Fields, president of Ford's North and South American business, said Ford is committed to more frequent updates to stay competitive. Fields said Ford would reduce the average age of its fleet from 4.4 years today to 3.2 years by 2008.
As for using a platform for a decade or more, "that era is over," Fields said Wednesday in a discussion with reporters about the Ford, Lincoln and Mercury lineups. "The dynamics of the business have changed, and, if you sit back and deny that, the realities of the business catches up with you."

[STLR FN]

...snip...
As for using a platform for a decade or more, "that era is over," Fields said Wednesday in a discussion with reporters about the Ford, Lincoln and Mercury lineups. "The dynamics of the business have changed, and, if you sit back and deny that, the realities of the business catches up with you."If you go by this statement here the Panther platform is basically dead.

[SergntMac]

Yes, you could say that, but he also clearly said that a model's viability in the market place, is the driving force. Hopefully, there will be enough of a public safety and taxi market to change that...BIKFDI

[merc6]

isn't the new wimpala just about the same dimentions for people and cargo?

[hitchhiker]

Ford has never marketed the panther platform well.

There are many customers who would have no other car if it is/were available.

:D

[jimlam56]

I own a 2003 Ford Ranger Edge as my daily driver. 82000 miles so far. No issues and I love it.
I have owned a 92 and a 94 also, additionally I have owned a 90 and 94 CV along with my MM.

Ford has stretched the Ranger out way farther than it should.
I hate to think the Ranger will become another Colorado, but that's the way it's looking.
My interest in the Durango made me remember the dark days in the early 80's where there was no money for future development...

I was in Detroit on Thursday, the headline in the Free Press was Daimler getting into the cop car business again...

(By the way. y'all have poopy roads, and no grits...:down: )

[Vortex]

I dont see Ford killing off the Panther anytime soon. They sell around 70k CV's (mostly police and taxis) and about the same number Grand Marquis (a big seller for L/M). Thats alot of cars. I could see where they will likely change the Town Car to something else and maybe even kill off the civilian CV but I bet the Panther has a few more years to go. Hell, it may end up like a Checker and never change.

[grzellmer]

This may be blasphemy to the auto world, but I don't need new sheet metal. I would rather have an ultra reliable car with all the bugs worked out. Funny how an "ancient" platform still has warranty issues. Didn't FMC learn anything over the years?

[hitchhiker]

This may be blasphemy to the auto world, but I don't need new sheet metal. I would rather have an ultra reliable car with all the bugs worked out. Funny how an "ancient" platform still has warranty issues. Didn't FMC learn anything over the years?

Back in the golden age of Detroit vehicles, manufacturers wanted us to want a new car every two years or so. Sheet metal, trim, and lighting changes were a deliberate attempt to make the previous model cars seem old. I was jsut a kid, but I can remember cars in showrooms covered or soaped up showroom windows, with the new models not to be revealed until some magic date. In short the car manufacturers would never do this then and they don't like to let a model stay the same too long now.

:D

[BK_GrandMarquis]

They should probably put in a more efficient engine and lighten up the car. This would help it with emissions and fuel economy. I think most people see the Panther platform as gas guzzlers and shy away from them. I'd prefer one to a minivan any day.

How about an aluminum body on frame car? Would it stand up to the same standards as a steel chassis? Give it more engine options like the 300C has and it can compete against that. Give it suspension/sport/luxury package options and it can compete against BMW or Mercedes.

There is so much they can do with it. It just depends on how they market it. People have all different needs. It can be made to fill quite a few with the right options.

[dwasson]

Using "Crown Vic" as a verb. (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=28025)

One Ford insider says, "I think we are done letting products wither on the vine, so I don't think we will Crown Vic the Explorer." Hey, "Crown Vic" is now a verb at Ford.

[merc6]

minivans I driven burn more gas than us. The impala also burned about the same as the interceptor. Ligher wouldn't be a bad idea. Ford is the only one of the big three that doesn't have 4 cyl shut off on their V8's. That could also be good for highway. I get 26 going from state to state, if 4 cyls shut dow I couldn't imagine what magical # would appear.

[TRP460]

isn't the new wimpala just about the same dimentions for people and cargo?

Yes! They're very close in that respect. I recently turned-in my CVPI service vehicle for a new 06' Impala "9C3". After I transferred my nearly 200 lbs. of gear, I was pleasantly surprised to discover that I had room to spare!

BTW, I'm not quite so sure that they're deserving of the "Wimpala" title any longer.......the performance of the 06' model compared to the 05' model is like "night and day"........IMHO!

[STLR FN]

Found this on Wikipedia. Take with a grain of salt.

2008

DaimlerChrysler (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DaimlerChrysler) and General Motors (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_Corporation) have begun moving back toward rear wheel drive for their premium models, whereas Ford never changed its Panther-based models. While there is no real evidence and conflicting reports on the future of the Panther platform, Ford is rumored to be considering replacing the Panther platform with a derivative of the Australian Ford Falcon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Falcon) in 2008 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008). This would be the replacement for the Crown Victoria and Grand Marquis, while the Town Car would be replaced with an all-wheel drive (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-wheel_drive) sedan based on the Ford D3 platform (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_D3_platform).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Panther_platform

[KillJoy]

A few things can definately be said about an "ancient" model. It is tried and true. Most, if not all bugs have been worked out. There are soooooo many out there, that almost every mechanic has worked on one, so, if the need be, you can get it serviced almost anywhere.

On top of all of that...... FMC has got to be raking in cash from their sales. The machinery needed to make them has been paid off for YEARS! So....it's gotta be their price leader.

KillJoy

[DEFYANT]

Ancient!?!

The frame, suspension and brakes just under went a total redesign!

If it aint broke, dont fix it! All the CV needs is the 3V engine w/ 300 hp! Be politically correct and say it has 295HP. Some people may get willies if you say 300! Update the body if you like, but the cars important parts are just fine.

[GreekGod]

Ancient!?!

The frame, suspension and brakes just under went a total redesign!

If it aint broke, dont fix it! All the CV needs is the 3V engine w/ 300 hp! Be politically correct and say it has 295HP. Some people may get willies if you say 300! Update the body if you like, but the cars important parts are just fine.

Now, if they would just promote the Crown Vic, I'm sure they would sell thousands more. It seems they don't want to sell more of them.

[Marauder2005]

(By the way. y'all have poopy roads, and no grits...:down: )


:lol:........................

[Marauder2005]

Now, if they would just promote the Crown Vic, I'm sure they would sell thousands more. It seems they don't want to sell more of them.

The Vic has been around since 1955/56? Who does not know they exist?

Almost anyone who thinks of a police car thinks of a Crown Vic. But, thats

most likely Fords thinking too; so I am probably off. :)

[mr.continental]

Ford is rumored to be considering replacing the Panther platform with a derivative of the Australian Ford Falcon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Falcon) in 2008 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008).

Atleast we know the 5.4l will fit in this chassis.:banana2:

[merc6]

Yes! They're very close in that respect. I recently turned-in my CVPI service vehicle for a new 06' Impala "9C3". After I transferred my nearly 200 lbs. of gear, I was pleasantly surprised to discover that I had room to spare!

BTW, I'm not quite so sure that they're deserving of the "Wimpala" title any longer.......the performance of the 06' model compared to the 05' model is like "night and day"........IMHO!We blew engines and trannys in all but the 05 cause it rarely wants to start. I'll wait to reserve the finnal judgement whe we get ours on the road. They still are in need of stickers and lights before being released to us.

[MENINBLK]

Ford has never marketed the panther platform well.

There are many customers who would have no other car if it is/were available.

:D

If you were to stand on a corner in NYC and just count the number of taxies
and police cruisers that go by in 5 minutes, I think you'll change your mind...

Here is the current Ford Falcon Police Cruiser...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Falcon_Police_Car.jpg

[SergntMac]

Ford would be foolish to shut down panther frame production, but they have shot themselves in the foot before. IMHO, there's too much variety in the lines and options. Ford needs to get back to K.I.S.S.

[LCSO34]

I think one reason Ford had done well with the current CVPI is consistency, as in aftermarket equipment. Agencies don't want to spend a lot of money on cars and if they can take equipment out of a 98 and transfer it to a 2006 its good. One thing though if a major change occurs with CV's as in no more, Agencies would be less reluctant to go to another source.

[sfsv]

The Panther chassis is a great platform, but it needs to be enhanced. I don't know if anyone has driven or ridden in a Ford 500 lately, but the interior and exterior space, beats the panther hands down. I have two toddlers (4 and 2) with all their gear (car seats, strollers, and bags) the panther does get tight. We rented a 500 a couple of months ago and we were amazed by the amount of space it offered. The only disappointment with the vehicle was the week 3.0 (203 hp) engine. The vehicle is schedule to get a 3.5 liter engine for the 2007 MY, which should solve the lack of power problem.
My sources inside of Ford tell me that an enhanced 500 chassis will be the next chassis offered for the Town Car, but the word is still out for the CV/GM. The CV/GM have been very profitable for Ford, along with keeping warranty cost low. The panther chassis is the preferred chassis of fleet operators. I was in NY last week ( the ultimate proving ground for fleet vehicles) and 98% of the vehicles were CV. The one thing that the CV have going for them is that the fleet price for the Charger is considerably more. I don't expect the manufacturers will get into the deep discounts to law enforcement like they did back in the late eighties, when the state bid for a 88 CV was $11,285 against a MSRP of $19,000. The DCX vehicles are selling so well they really don't need the law enforcement market, but having the best performing law enforcement vehicle does have its' bragging rights.

[GreekGod]

The Panther chassis is a great platform, but it needs to be enhanced. I don't know if anyone has driven or ridden in a Ford 500 lately, but the interior and exterior space, beats the panther hands down. I have two toddlers (4 and 2) with all their gear (car seats, strollers, and bags) the panther does get tight. We rented a 500 a couple of months ago and we were amazed by the amount of space it offered. The only disappointment with the vehicle was the week 3.0 (203 hp) engine. The vehicle is schedule to get a 3.5 liter engine for the 2007 MY, which should solve the lack of power problem.
My sources inside of Ford tell me that an enhanced 500 chassis will be the next chassis offered for the Town Car, but the word is still out for the CV/GM. The CV/GM have been very profitable for Ford, along with keeping warranty cost low. The panther chassis is the preferred chassis of fleet operators. I was in NY last week ( the ultimate proving ground for fleet vehicles) and 98% of the vehicles were CV. The one thing that the CV have going for them is that the fleet price for the Charger is considerably more. I don't expect the manufacturers will get into the deep discounts to law enforcement like they did back in the late eighties, when the state bid for a 88 CV was $11,285 against a MSRP of $19,000. The DCX vehicles are selling so well they really don't need the law enforcement market, but having the best performing law enforcement vehicle does have its' bragging rights.

Thanks for the update. Your overview seems insightful.

Perhaps an enhanced 500 chassis for the Towncar will be desirable but the possibility of V8 power in the Volvo derived chassis must be very unlikely. A supercharged or turbo V6 might be OK (with AWD). AWD with 300+ horsepower in a #4000+ Volvo-Towncar is probably a pipe-dream.

A He-Man like GreekGod needs V8 power, not a girly-man V6, even if "boosted".

[Haggis]

A He-Man like GreekGod needs V8 power, not a girly-man V6, even if "boosted".
Some of us are confident enough to drive our Buick Grand Nationals around town.

[STLR FN]

Thanks for the update. Your overview seems insightful.

Perhaps an enhanced 500 chassis for the Towncar will be desirable but the possibility of V8 power in the Volvo derived chassis must be very unlikely. A supercharged or turbo V6 might be OK (with AWD). AWD with 300+ horsepower in a #4000+ Volvo-Towncar is probably a pipe-dream.

A He-Man like GreekGod needs V8 power, not a girly-man V6, even if "boosted".From Wikipedia:

Volvo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volvo_Cars) began offering the 4.4 L V8 version of this engine in its large P2 platform (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volvo_P2_platform) automobiles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automobile) in 2005 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005). The engine is made by Yamaha (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_Motor_Corporation) in Japan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan) and was initially offered in the Volvo XC90 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volvo_XC90) SUV (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SUV). Other vehicles likely to get the V8 engine include the Volvo S80 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volvo_S80), Volvo XC70 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volvo_XC70), and a future Lincoln (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincoln_%28automobile%29) all wheel drive (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_wheel_drive) luxury car.
The engine is a 4.4 L aluminum DOHC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOHC) V8 which produces 311 hp (232 kW) and 325 ft·lbf (441 N·m). Officials of all three companies involved insist that the Volvo V8 is not related to the SHO engine, but insiders dispute this claim.
The 4.4 L engine will likely find its way to Lincoln (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincoln_%28automobile%29)'s new D3-based models (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_D3_platform) in 2008 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008) and beyond. Since this platform is designed for transverse engines, none of Ford's other V8 engines would easily fit. The engine was used in the 2006 Lincoln MKS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincoln_MKS) concept car.

Also look up Volvo XC90.

[ex00p71]

Well, I still think transversely mounted engines and FWD suck, same with FWD based AWD.

[GreekGod]

Some of us are confident enough to drive our Buick Grand Nationals around town.

You are indeed a Man's Man if you can drive a girly-man Gran Nat. around and not be embarrassed or feel emasculated!

[GreekGod]

From Wikipedia:

Volvo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volvo_Cars) began offering the 4.4 L V8 version of this engine in its large P2 platform (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volvo_P2_platform) automobiles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automobile) in 2005 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005). The engine is made by Yamaha (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_Motor_Corporation) in Japan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan) and was initially offered in the Volvo XC90 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volvo_XC90) SUV (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SUV). Other vehicles likely to get the V8 engine include the Volvo S80 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volvo_S80), Volvo XC70 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volvo_XC70), and a future Lincoln (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincoln_%28automobile%29) all wheel drive (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_wheel_drive) luxury car.
The engine is a 4.4 L aluminum DOHC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOHC) V8 which produces 311 hp (232 kW) and 325 ft·lbf (441 N·m). Officials of all three companies involved insist that the Volvo V8 is not related to the SHO engine, but insiders dispute this claim.
The 4.4 L engine will likely find its way to Lincoln (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincoln_%28automobile%29)'s new D3-based models (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_D3_platform) in 2008 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008) and beyond. Since this platform is designed for transverse engines, none of Ford's other V8 engines would easily fit. The engine was used in the 2006 Lincoln MKS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincoln_MKS) concept car.

Also look up Volvo XC90.

This proves that great minds think alike! ;)

I just hope it ain't no SHO V8 cousin. I understand those Jap engines had a million tiny parts to 'em, kinda like a girly-man engine.

Also, I (too) don't care for transverse mounting. I have a Continental 4.6 DOHC on a bench waiting to be dis-assembled. It is an example of a horrible engineer's nightmare of packaging and compromise. The 1966< Oldsmobile/Gm front wheel big cars were ahead of their time in comparison.

[dwasson]

[FONT=Arial Black][SIZE=3]Also, I (too) don't care for transverse mounting. I have a Continental 4.6 DOHC on a bench waiting to be dis-assembled. It is an example of a horrible engineer's nightmare of packaging and compromise. The 1966< Oldsmobile/Gm front wheel big cars were ahead of their time in comparison.

The 60s GM FWD cars were examples of inefficient packaging. Just how were they ahead of their time?

[MENINBLK]

Well, I still think transversely mounted engines and FWD suck, same with FWD based AWD.

You NEED to take a Freestyle out for a test drive.
You WILL change your mind.
The AWD system on the Freestyle uses the same rear coupler
as the Bugatti Veyron.
It can shift 90% of the torque to the REAR AXLE in 1/2 sec.

[ex00p71]

O.K. does the 500 have the same system? I'm guessing it doesn't. Plus crossover vehicles aren't exactly my deal, it's like a car with an identity crisis, are you a car,suv,minivan or station wagon? Just pick one and stick with it. I think Subaru's AWD system is pretty cool. I think with thiers you can select how much power you send to the front or back. Add the fact that most cars with transversely mounted engines are a pain to work on.

[MENINBLK]

I don't know if anyone has driven or ridden in a Ford 500 lately, but the interior and exterior space, beats the panther hands down.

The trunk space of a 500 isn't any bigger than the CV/GM
and the 500 certainly isn't any faster than the current CV/GM.
The 500 cannot carry all the weight of the equipment
that is loaded into the CV/GM.

The 500 is a very good substitute for the Taurus, but NOT for the CV/GM.
The same people that would buy a Taurus would buy the 500.

My 2006 Freestyle has the same 3.0 V6 you claim is so underpowered.
I wonder, if when you drove the 500, you hit the WOT switch under the accelerator.
If you didn't, then you also didn't feel what a DURATEC has to offer.

The 2005 Freestyle AWD is rated on 1/4 mile for 16 sec.
That's with the puny 3.0L Duratec and the CVT transmission.
I'd like to see the look on your face as you watched it
roll down the strip, side by side with a Marauder
to only get beaten by 1/2 second.
That look would be priceless...

The 500 should do the strip faster.
It is lighter than the Freestyle.

[MENINBLK]

O.K. does the 500 have the same system? I'm guessing it doesn't. Plus crossover vehicles aren't exactly my deal, it's like a car with an identity crisis, are you a car,suv,minivan or station wagon? Just pick one and stick with it. I think Subaru's AWD system is pretty cool. I think with thiers you can select how much power you send to the front or back. Add the fact that most cars with transversely mounted engines are a pain to work on.

Do your homework.
They are both built on the same platform and drivetrain.

Cars with transverse engines make up over 80% of what's on the road.

[GreekGod]

The 60s GM FWD cars were examples of inefficient packaging. Just how were they ahead of their time?

Well, Oldsmobile won Pikes Peak with a FWD Toronado! They were big cars and the 425/455 V8's fit the chassis and had room to work on them. They used an inline layout and a heavy-duty transmission. The first front wheel drive automobile produced in the USA since the demise of the Cord in 1937. Wikipedia has a pretty good write-up on the Toronado and all the innovations that went into it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronado

I say what goes around, comes around and the somewhat recent return of the big FWD car isn't as well done as the '66 Toronado was. That's my story and I'm sticking to it!

[Haggis]

You are indeed a Man's Man if you can drive a girly-man Gran Nat. around and not be embarrassed or feel emasculated!
Remember that the GN and GNX were 'Muscle Cars' when the Marauder was just drizzle down your leg.

[GreekGod]

Remember that the GN and GNX were 'Muscle Cars' when the Marauder was just drizzle down your leg.

Technically, our He-Manly Marauders started in 1963 1/2:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_Marauder

Your GM built Buicks are (1982<) G-body from (1978<) A-body chassis. They are very nice platforms:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_G_platform_%28RWD%29

It is good that you are confident enough in your masculinity to drive such a cute chick car. Once again, I salute you. ^5

p.s. I remember the year you were born. I may have known your mother...

[Haggis]

p.s. I remember the year you were born. I may have known your mother...
Low Blow.....

I very much doubt it, then again, maybe, she might have changed your diapers a time or two.

Back to the discussion... I love my Marauder more then the GN, that is why the GN is for sale and I just bought another Kenny Brown Marauder. :baaa:

[dwasson]

Well, Oldsmobile won Pikes Peak with a FWD Toronado! They were big cars and the 425/455 V8's fit the chassis and had room to work on them. They used an inline layout and a heavy-duty transmission. The first front wheel drive automobile produced in the USA since the demise of the Cord in 1937. Wikipedia has a pretty good write-up on the Toronado and all the innovations that went into it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronado

I say what goes around, comes around and the somewhat recent return of the big FWD car isn't as well done as the '66 Toronado was. That's my story and I'm sticking to it!
My mistake, the 1966 Toronado was ahead of it's time. About 5 years in fact. :lol:

[ex00p71]

Do your homework.
They are both built on the same platform and drivetrain.

Cars with transverse engines make up over 80% of what's on the road. (Unfortuanate isn't it)

Anyway I'm not in the market for one of those cars so it doesn't really matter.

[Vortex]

Apples and oranges on the CV v. 500. My MM and Montego are totally different cars. The Montego probably has more interior room (especially the back seat but that doesnt help me much). Mine is the FWD 6 speed auto. Ive read that tranny was a joint venture between Ford and GM but then I read its manufactured by a Toyota supplier (?) Hell I dont know but it gets 29 mpg on the highway. I use mine as my grocery getter and daily driver. Have to admit my 05 Impala work car 3800 V6 has more guts than the 3.0 Duratec. Still, Im glad I own it, it will keep my miles lower on the MM over the long haul. The MM seems lightyears faster than the Montego.

[SamF]

I owned many Galaxie 500's as daily drivers. When I heard Ford was building a new car called the 500 I was intrigued.

When I saw the car one thing came to mind;

2000 Passat....how sad that this is the best the Blue Oval could come up with.

I dont think anyone seriously considering a CV/GM/MM is cross shopping a 500...apples and oranges IMO.

Sam

[Eric91Z]

The trunk space of a 500 isn't any bigger than the CV/GM
and the 500 certainly isn't any faster than the current CV/GM.
The 500 cannot carry all the weight of the equipment
that is loaded into the CV/GM.

The 500 is a very good substitute for the Taurus, but NOT for the CV/GM.
The same people that would buy a Taurus would buy the 500.



I would beg to differer on the trunk comment. The actual cubic inch space may be close, but the packaging and layout of the 500 trunk is much more useful than the Marauder, except for maybe a taller item. Having both a Marauder and a 500 in the garage, I will tell you that we will take the 500 everytime for gorcery shopping or errand running. We can put the baby's big, collapsable stroller in the trunk and still fit $200 worth of groceries in there, too. And the roof line is higher allowing for better access to the rear seats, plus more rear seat room. From that point of view, it is a better family car than the CV/GM/MM. I love my Marauder, but if we are piling the whole family in, with stuff for the trunk, and doing a lot of in and out of the car, I prefer the 500.

I find it funny that a review of a 2001 Mercury Sable with pretty much the same Duratec 3.0 V6 got rave reviews and was actually called an almost sporty sedan, whereas the 500 continually gets knocked for no power. The car definitely is lacking some low end grunt and the tranny/ECM shift issues can be annoying (we have the 6 speed auto), but if you mash it to the floor it will eventually get going pretty well and it has will run at 75-80mph on the highway all day long.

All that being said, I still think Ford needs to invest a little money to update the Panther platform or they will continue to loose fleet sales to the Chrysler/Daimler group. Multiple sheriff's departments here in Iowa are already getting the Dodge Chargers now.