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V10_P70
05-14-2003, 08:53 AM
FMC is making changes to the 2005 CV and GM. These changes will be electronic throttle control, checksum on the ECU for validation.

Both of these issues will present significant issues to the aftermarket tuners. Without support from FMC, the tradional chip model will not work in the future.

Just a FYI.
JLHARVEY1
05-14-2003, 10:48 AM
I'm sure the aftermarket will find thier way around it. They always do. They countinously make it harder and harder for the aftermarket, but it seems to me the aftermarket is just too determined to make stuff faster.
RCSignals
05-14-2003, 09:39 PM
Ford has typically been more open in "sharing" this sort of information with the aftermarket than other manufacturers.
Why would that change now?
01 Interceptor
05-15-2003, 01:19 AM
I'm with RCSignals...what would that do to the relationships FoMoCO has with Roush, Steeda, Saleen, and Kenny Brown? These are all factory authorized tuners(at least they seem to be.)
WolfeBros
05-15-2003, 06:20 AM
After market tuners have always had to overcome obstacles.
Some of the best programmed while employed at FoMoCo.
Don't underestimate the knowledge, skill and determination of these people and their passion. There is always a way.
Logan
05-15-2003, 03:51 PM
Ford's new PCM "Black Oak" has yet to be modified by any aftermarket tuner, much to the chagrin of certain SVT Focus owners...

Look for Black Oak to start appearing in all new Ford products as they get redesigned...
RF Overlord
05-15-2003, 03:56 PM
Well, there ya go, folks...

Our cars may be among the last that CAN be modded simply and relatively inexpensively...

cha-CHING...did I just hear the value of my car go up?
WolfeBros
05-15-2003, 05:54 PM
If it can't be modified then the whole module will have to be replaced with someones complete aftermarket design. I concur with the assessment though.........the cost of playing will definitely go up !

Its like the people that said you couldn't hack satellite tv because of the 'on the fly' security coding. They didn't hack the code but they found a weak spot and worked around it. Alot of people watched alot of free tv for several iterations of those access cards.

Someone will come up with a way to keep the tuners going. It takes time though. And somebody has to spend the money to figure out how. For now the people that have a Marauder don't have to worry. :D
RCSignals
05-15-2003, 05:55 PM
Logan what is "Black Oak" used in now other than the SVT Focus?

(couldn't get yours modified huh?)
RF Overlord
05-15-2003, 06:01 PM
RC:

Not to hijack your question to Logan, but this link (http://www.mototron.com/pcm555.htm) might be of interest...The Mototron PCM555, internally known as "Black Oak", was originally developed for Mercury Marine back in 2000, IIRC...
RCSignals
05-15-2003, 06:08 PM
Interesting it's been around so long and no one has cracked it.
Of course Ford's protocols are probably different

Looks like there are Software Tools available http://www.mototron.com/softwaretools.htm
RF Overlord
05-15-2003, 06:26 PM
Originally posted by RCSignals
Looks like there are Software Tools available

Yeah, but at what cost? Goodbye $300 chips...
WolfeBros
05-15-2003, 07:16 PM
Originally posted by RF Overlord
Yeah, but at what cost? Goodbye $300 chips...


Sad but true I am afraid.:(
SergntMac
05-16-2003, 02:45 AM
If it's a new PCM in 2005, and LM isn't making the MM after 2004, should we really care?
WolfeBros
05-16-2003, 05:54 AM
Nope, the Marauder crowd does not have to worry. :D
We have the fix we need in hand.:up:
RF Overlord
05-16-2003, 06:18 AM
Originally posted by SergntMac
If it's a new PCM in 2005, and LM isn't making the MM after 2004, should we really care?

Sarge:

I was making more of a general statement...

Sure, WE'RE all set with our current rides, but future purchasers of whatever "performance" cars are made may be SOL... :(
MAD-3R
05-16-2003, 06:22 AM
Jusy like door locks, every time there's a new style, someone cuts a new notch on the slimjim. Computetrs and programs can be hacked.
SergntMac
05-16-2003, 02:27 PM
Originally posted by RF Overlord
Sarge: I was making more of a general statement. Sure, WE'RE all set with our current rides, but future purchasers of whatever "performance" cars are made may be SOL.

I hear ya, Bob, but I think you just helped me focus my question, let me re-state.

In my book, the Marauder has been the closest thing to a factory muscle car we've seen in years (not including specialty vehicles like SVT stuff) and yet we still have to wrangle the muscle out of it with no-warranty mods. I'd say the "muscle car" concept has seen it's brightest day with The Marauder, and it's just going to get worse from here. More tricked out fancy cars with more tricky promises, more tricked customers. Less real performance, and less opportunity to fix that. The more a manfacturer brags of true performance, the less I expect to see on the street...IMHO.