Shoe-Horning a Mammoth under the hood:

[BillyGman]

For those who have been following my big inch engine car build-up, here's an update. The big tall deck block 632 inch engine is finally in the car, but boy did it take some doing! The big monster wouldn't even fit, and I had to cut the frame!

Take a look at the engine shots below, and notice how deep the front of the oil pan is. Not the sump in the rear of the pan, but the front of the pan.
The reason for the depth of the front of the oil pan, is because of the massive 4.75" stroke of this engine. The pan had to be made that deep just to clear the connecting rod caps because of the huge throw of the big stroker crankshaft. The reciprocating parts of this engine are literally busting out of the block, and a really deep pan had to be used as well as the block having to be relieved to clear the crank and rods.

It's because of that, which made it neccessary for me to cut the front crossmember which is part of the frame ( no, this is no bolt-in crossmember). The oil pan wouldn't clear the crossmember, and it bottomed out on it before the engine was low enough in the compartment for the motor mount holes to line up with the motor mount frame bracket holes. And because of the block being a tall deck design, along with the single plane hi-rise intake manifold & the Holley Dominator carb which is one inch taller than a standard Holley double pumper carb, hood clearence isn't going to be plentiful either, and I'm just going to barely have enough w/out having to cut a hole in the hood (which I haven't any intentions of doing). Therefore, raising the motor mounts up higher was out of the question. So in my next post, I'll show you pics of what I did to get around this obstacle....

[BillyGman]

...so I got out the cut-off wheel, and the sawzall, and I made the cuts....

[BillyGman]

...then it was time to have some steel pieces cut and welded in, to box the crossmember back in again in order to restore rigidity. The frame is .125" wall thickness, so I decided to use steel pieces that were of a .250" thickness, so that the frame would be stronger than it originally was.

I used pieces of cardboard to make up templates, that I would then use to trace the patterns onto the sheet of 1/4" thick steel that I bought ( just like I did when I made up the pieces for boxing in the control arm brackets).

I brought the steel to someone who had the equipment to cut the pieces out of it for me that I had traced the patterns for. And then I got the welder back over again, the weld them in.

[BillyGman]

...here's the veiw from the rear of the crossmember after the pieces were welded in.....

[BillyGman]

...and, finally, the finished & painted product ( from the front view again)....

[BillyGman]

..time to finally drop the Mammoth in....(sorry about the poor quality of the pics....I'm using a disposable camera)....

[BillyGman]

...and here are some shots of the headers on the engine.....note that the primary tubes are so big that one on each side had to made a slip-fit tube, so that it can go around the frame rails due to the big diameter making it impossible to get all four tubes inside the frame rails on each sode of the car......

[BillyGman]

...and, while I was at it, I also did some more things to the frame in other areas of the car, to beef it up more, to prevent it from being twisted when I put my right foot into the pedal. I cut and welded 1 5/8" diameter steel tube with a .134" wall thickness to the frame rails so that they would run parallel to them on each side of the car. Now in essence, the car has four frame rails instead of two. I also intend to have welded in gussets to the steel tubes, in the four places where they meet the frame.....

[BillyGman]

...and here's a couple shots of the rear wheel & tire combo I'll be using, that's sitting next to my brother's Harley, just to give you an idea of the size of the rear meats..... that's all for now....next, I have to figure out how to get the steering linkage to clear the deep oil pan. I'm going to try and find a pitman arm with a greater drop to it than the stock one has, and if I find one, then I'll also drill two holes lower in the frame rail for a lower mounting point of the idler arm, so that the centerlink will rest lower in order to clear the oil pan. After that, the transmission, and headers go in, along with the 3.5" diameter exhaust......I know that many of you are primarily Ford guys, but I just wanted to show you all of this, because I figured that being the car nuts that you are ( like me) you would enjoy this stuff, and I also figured that if any of you ever embark on such a project with an old Ford, some of the pics I've posted will give you some ideas.....

[Krytin]

Nice Work Billy - looks first rate!

[BillyGman]

Thanks Paul. ;) It's been a lot of work, and I have alot more to go.

[Marauderjack]

Everything looks GREAT Billy!!:bows:

But why would an engine builder use a Fram oil filter on such a nice engine??:argue:

Good luck with your "BEAST"!!:beer:

Marauderjack:burnout:

[martyo]

Looks great Billy!

Man am I gonna be jealous!

[Blackened300a]

Looks Great Billy and very innovative on your crossmember modification.
Looking forward to hearing about the finished product.

[Loco1234]

Looking forward to see the time slip from that monsters first run....

[KillJoy]

Nice looking engine!

With those tires.....that thing is gonna look MEAN!!!!!

KillJoy

[magindat]

The quality of the welds looks very good. You are lucky to have a good welder in your corner.

[jim geary]

That's one scary looking engine Billy. Most impressive. Can't wait to hear some
of the results. Good luck.

[TAF]

Nice job there, Billy!!!

That monster is looking GREAT!!! Congrats!

You can see all the hard work...and it WILL be worth it!

[Bradley G]

Nice Project Billy!
That car is awsome!
I love the color!

[sweetair]

Very nice. What HP is that putting out??

[BillyGman]

Nice looking engine!

With those tires.....that thing is gonna look MEAN!!!!!

KillJoyThanks to everyone on the compliments. This has really been a challenging project so far. I thought that I'd have it on the road by now, but I keep on finding things that either I need to do to the car, or that I want to do to it in order for everything to be correct, and for this whole package to be durable. Below are some pics of the Dana 60 rear that I'm using, along with those tires installed.

I sure hope this thing stays together okay with all the power it will develop. I'm doing everything that I can think of to ensure that it will. This is a huge undertaking for me, and I can't even begin to tell you how expensive this project has been so far. Even more than I thought it would be! But that's the price you have to pay if you want BIG power, and you want to have any hope of it lasting. The one thing that I'll regret about this car is that it will burn so much gas, that I won't be able to drive it out of the tri-state area ( CT,NY,NJ), and I don't have a trailer for it either. I found a place on the net that will be sending me a mandrel bent 3.5" exhaust for my car all made up. I only wish that I lived closer to Todd ( aka "TAF").....

[BillyGman]

oh, BTW, one more thing, I'm really not finished with that crossmember yet. I plan on reinforcing the bottom of it also with another 1/4" thick plate going underneath which will only reduce the ground clearence by .250" ofcourse. And I wanted to go arcross the bottom of the car from one frame rail to the other which would be ideal for support, but that would be very difficult with the 3.5" exhaust that this engine needs.

So I did the next best thing with those steel tubes. I got the ideas from the race car frames that they sell for GM A-body cars which have double tube frame rails. Two rails are better than one.

[TooManyFords]

You know I'll be expecting another burn-out video. I may have to drive out there to see this thing too!

Good work.

John

[BillyGman]

You know I'll be expecting another burn-out video. I may have to drive out there to see this thing too!

Good work.

Johnokay my friend! Yes, I do plan on another burnout vid!! And here's some pics of the meats that will be used....

[TooManyFords]

okay my friend! Yes, I do plan on another burnout vid!! And here's some pics of the meats that will be used....

Don't waste the good racing rubber, just get a set of polyglass G60's on factory rims and let the good times [read: SMOKE] roll!

:D

john

[Tallboy]

Lookin' good, Billy. I can't wait to go for a ride in this thing!!! :burnout: :burnout:

[younga1]

Billy,

What a sweet ride you are putting together!!

"There is no substitute for cubic inches!!!"

My guess is 3-4 mpg:rolleyes: . Oh well, ya gotta pay to play!!

Keep the photos coming.

[BillyGman]

Billy,

What a sweet ride you are putting together!!

"There is no substitute for cubic inches!!!"

My guess is 3-4 mpg:rolleyes: . Oh well, ya gotta pay to play!!

Keep the photos coming.Yeah, gas mileage sure isn't gonna be this car's strong point. There's no arguing about that. And that is the only reason I'll be driving this car merely once per week. I sure hope all those stories I'm reading about gas prices coming down in the future, and big oil sources being found here in the USA, are all true!!

John, I hear what you're saying about the cheap tires. But for any videos, I atleast have tires that are wide enough to require the 10" wheels that I have back there.

Chuck, do you know if you'll be coming back up here again this year?

[BillyGman]

Very nice. What HP is that putting out??I apologize for missing your question. The engine is puting 800 HP at the flywheel (flexplate) @ 5,900 RPM, and 775 FT/LBS of torque @ 4,000 RPM. Below are some pics of the new 3.5" diameter exhaust pieces I received via UPS. I still have to send them out to be ceramic coated. You'll also see some pics of the beefed-up TH400 transmission installed, and another shot of the rear suspension....

[BillyGman]

....and....

[BillyGman]

..and a couple more....

[Mard]

That's one sweet Chevelle! My older brothers buddy had 70 SS 396 (black w/white stripe) with a few mods back in highschool. He was class of 79, so I was only around 10 at the time, but that car made a huge impression on me....it hauled ass. What you have would walk away from that 396...that's scary.

Is that a factory hood, shown in one of the first pics, you're trying to keep that engine under?

[BillyGman]

Is that a factory hood, shown in one of the first pics, you're trying to keep that engine under? Yes it is. That's the plan. To keep this monster concealed, and w/out using any of those boxy looking aftermarket 4" cowl hoods. I want the car to look pretty much stock, other than the 10" wide back wheels with the P315/60/15 size tires. And it will always be run on pump gas only.

[AstroVic]

Billy,

Very impressive to say the least!

Tell me you're not really going to run a crappy Fram oil filter on that jewel!!! Say it ain't so!

[BillyGman]

Billy,

Very impressive to say the least!

Tell me you're not really going to run a crappy Fram oil filter on that jewel!!! Say it ain't so!You're the third person who mentioned that. So what's with this fixation of oil filter brands? How much different can one be from the other? I mean, it's an oil filter. Nothing complicated about that. Should I really believe that one is really that much different than the other? Am I missing something? BTW, the fram oil filter that's on there is one of their "HP" series ( if it really matters). The thing will get changed every 3,000 miles anyway, so what's the big deal? And I can't see it bursting either since I'm not running a high pressure oil pump anyway. The pump that's in there is a high VOLUME/standard pressure pump.

[AstroVic]

You're the third person who mentioned that. So what's with this fixation of oil filter brands? How much different can one be from the other? I mean, it's an oil filter. Nothing complicated about that. Should I really believe that one is really that much different than the other? Am I missing something?

Well, let me put it this way:

1. There are better filters available for the same or less money.
2. Fram internals are made of cardboard and shoddy construction. There have been numerous reports of the filtering media on Frams imploding and chunks coming loose from the element and endcaps. Others have metal end caps, better/more filtering media (evenly spaced), and quality anti-drainback valves (silicon, as opposed to nitrile rubber which hardens quickly), etc.
3. For an extra buck or two, you can get a REALLY good filter that will protect that beast a LOT better. (Wix, AC Delco, Motorcraft, Purolator PureOne, etc.)

For a beater car, I suppose it wouldn't matter much. Even so, I wouldn't voluntarily give Fram the same or more money as I would for another filter. This would be rewarding Fram for producing an inferior product and selling it to me at an inflated value through some slick and costly "Slam it, Fram it!" advertising campaign. SuperTech (Walmart) filters are actually better quality filters and they're only $2.07 apiece. (They're made by Champion Labs, by the way. The same folks who make the $12 Mobil1 filters.)

Do a google search and look at some pictures of new/used Frams compared to Wix, AC Delco, Motorcraft, etc. I would suspect you'll never buy another Fram filter again.

Heck, next time you're at the auto parts store, grab a Fram in one hand and filter "X" in the other hand and see if you can tell the difference in quality just based on the weight alone. Look them over very carefully. The Fram will feel flimsy in comparison.

Check these sites out:

http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilterstudy.html

http://www.lesabret.com/filters/filter.html

[BillyGman]

Hmmmmm,

very interesting info. Thankyou. ;) According to what that first guy is saying, the fram "Extra Guard", and "Double Guard" filters are garbage, but the Fram "Tough Guard" filters are pretty good. I'll have to look to see which one it is that I have on this engine. Maybe it's time for me to get a AC/Delco Duraguard filter, a Wix, Napa Gold, or a Mobil 1 filter. He had good things to say about those.

The cost of such filters doesn't concern me since oil filter expenses are the least of my worries. I just wasn't aware of the significant differences in oil filters. The drainback valve differences are of particular concern, according to those reports. I appreciate your input on that.

[Breadfan]

To get a good Fram filter you're paying an arm and a leg...the ToughGuards are like $10/pop!

I'd recommend Puroloator PureOne, Mobile 1, K&N, Motorcraft, WIX.

[BillyGman]

To get a good Fram filter you're paying an arm and a leg...the ToughGuards are like $10/pop!

I'd recommend Puroloator PureOne, Mobile 1, K&N, Motorcraft, WIX.The Mobil 1 filters are even more $$. Right?

[AstroVic]

^^^ Agreed 100%. ^^^

I'm like you, BilllyG. Filter costs are relatively minor compared to the cost of that engine!

Even though it appears that the filter on your big block is facing upright - hence, less concern regarding the ADBV - I'd still use only those filters that have silicon ADBVs. When you see the orange ADBV, it's (almost?) always silicon and a good indicator of a better quality filter.

For that particular engine, I'd go with either a K&N filter or a Wix filter because they tend to flow very well and still do an excellent job filtering.

Just my two cents.

By the way, if you're the same BillyG of the burnout fame, you're one of my all-time car heroes. I've played that video about 10,000 times! ;)

[Breadfan]

I think the K&N and Mobil1 filters are about 9-10 bucks each...but they're superior to the similar-priced FRAMs.

For my cars I use either Motorcraft or the Purolator PureOne

[BillyGman]

By the way, if you're the same BillyG of the burnout fame, you're one of my all-time car heroes. I've played that video about 10,000 times! ;)Yep, that's me..... Thanks. :burnout:

[MarauderMark]

WOW!!! Billy thats a beautiful peice of machinery there and your really kikin some butt putting it together.Please make another video:D
Good luck with it.:up:

[BillyGman]

Please make another video:D
I plan to. ;)

[BillyGman]

SOME updates...... I've got the headers in ( with the Stage 8 Locking header bolts). The driver's side took some work getting in...and I also had to come up with some improvisions of my own to make a steering linkage set-up that would clear the front of the oil pan which is deeper than stock because of the big 4.75" stroke of this engine.....

[BillyGman]

and more.......

[BillyGman]

The first pic below shows the double adjustable Edelbrock upper control arms, as well as the extra bracing I made out of 1.5" diameter/.156" thick steel pipe which was welded from one frame rail to the other to stiffen things up back there even more than I had done before. I don't want things being twisted up back there under the 775 ft/LBS of torque that this engine delivers.....

[Bradley G]

You are rollin! Looks Fast! :D

[Mike Poore]

Great project, Billy, and nice photo essay; it's been fun to follow. I can't wait until we see the photos when you start that bad boy up.

Next time you go near a NAPA store, stop in ant look at their oil filter display. Yes, the poor example/excuse of a filter they use for comparison, next to their NAPA Gold is a Fram.
Buy two, while you're at it.
When you compare the price of an oil filter to the time, love and money you've already invested in the project; you'll realize this is not the place to save money. :twocents:

Friends don't let friends drive Fram. ;)

[BillyGman]

Great project, Billy, and nice photo essay; it's been fun to follow. I can't wait until we see the photos when you start that bad boy up.

Next time you go near a NAPA store, stop in ant look at their oil filter display. Yes, the poor example/excuse of a filter they use for comparison, next to their NAPA Gold is a Fram.
Buy two, while you're at it.
When you compare the price of an oil filter to the time, love and money you've already invested in the project; you'll realize this is not the place to save money. :twocents:

Friends don't let friends drive Fram. ;) I already did that Mike. In fact, I bought three Napa gold filters last month, and one of them is already installed along with a hefty filter magnet.

[dwasson]

So, how scary was it making that first cut on the frame?

[BillyGman]

So, how scary was it making that first cut on the frame?I'm not sure if your question is serious or tongue-in-cheek..... but in case it is a sincere question, I'll offer you an answer....

I didn't want to believe that it was neccessary to cut it. Believe me, it wasn't something that I wanted to do. What messed up my game plan concerning this, is that before I purchased this engine, I specifically asked both the engine manufacture as well as the manufacture of the oil pan ( which is Canton racing here in Connecticut) if everything would fit in a 1970 Chevelle OE frame, and they both told me that it would.:rolleyes: I blame the oil pan manufacture, because it was them giving everyone false information about their product.

I also went on the Canton Racing website, typed in the oil pan part #, and it also stated on their website that this pan would fit w/out modifications to GM OE frames. What a joke!! It didn't even come close. Not only was it too deep to clear the frame, it was too deep to clear the steering centerlink.

So once I got over the initial shock of reality, and over being in denial about the whole thing, and giving Canton Racing a piece of my mind ( which probably fell on deaf ears anyway) I took measuremeants, drew the lines, and once that was done, I got out the sawzall, and the cut-off tool, and it was cut in a matter of 10 minutes. The sawzall was quicker, but there were a couple tight areas where I couldn't get at with the sawzall, and that's where the cut-off tool came in handy. It wasn't too difficult. And The frame is actually stronger now even in that area than it was before I cut it, because of how I had it welded on both the top where it was cut, as well as on the bottom with that new home made skid plate.

I ended up using a Milodon pan which still required some mods because of the depth of the entire pan ( not just the sump) having to clear the massive 4.75" stroke of the crank and rods. What can I say? This is the price you pay for 800 naturally aspirated pump gas Horse power.:dunno: You just can't expect every single little thing to go exactly as planned when you're building a 4,000 LB low 10 second pump gas car. There are modifications to be made whether you'll like it or not, and while you might be able to keep the car in question looking relatively stock if you want it to, there are some things that will not even be close to stock. it's just the nature of the beast. If you can be satisfied with 400 HP, then that's a different story, but not with 800 HP. That's just the way it is. However, to me it's all worth it.... thanks for your inquiry.

[dwasson]

Billy, I was totally serious. I watched a buddy install a sunroof once. Making that first cut in the car scared us both. What if you do it wrong and just end up with a car with a hole in it?

[BillyGman]

Billy, I was totally serious. I watched a buddy install a sunroof once. Making that first cut in the car scared us both. What if you do it wrong and just end up with a car with a hole in it?I hear ya...I think that starting a cut for a sunroof would've been more scary, because that's in a place on the car that will always be seen, and it's also in a place that will always cause leaks if it's done wrong. And since that isn't the cae with the frame, I wasn't afraid once I came to the realization that I had to do it if I ever hoped to squeeze the oil pan in there. And having 800 HP worth of engine hanging there on the hoist really motivated me to take action also. :D