Why didnt Ford use the Lightning drivetrain

[jokers impala s]

Hey guys Im new to this forum and NO Im not a marauder hater, I just wonder why ford didnt put a better setup in this car. I mean will the triton setup work or fit in the marauder. This car has alot of potential but maybe its just gonna take some time. I was reading about the shootout in Chi-Town and the best run was a 14.2. What is the fastest Marauder out in the community right now and what kinda mods have they done. Honestly I kinda like the look of the marauder but still like my Impala more, I dont like the sticker price on the marader and I wish they wouldve put a better drivetrain setup in it.

[MMM2003]

The fastest I know of is the Kenny Brown Marauder-S. Supercharged with about 450hp. They claim 12.5sec for the 1/4 mile. I'm sure Mensrea will have something to add here.

[MAD-3R]

From what we have been able to distill concerning why they didn't put a better drive train boils down to CAFE and/or the positioning of a resevour of some type. The body is fitted OVER the engine, and the bigger block wouldn't allow the body to clear on the assemble line.

[BlackHole]

Originally posted by MAD-3R
From what we have been able to distill concerning why they didn't put a better drive train boils down to CAFE and/or the positioning of a resevour of some type. The body is fitted OVER the engine, and the bigger block wouldn't allow the body to clear on the assemble line.

Its the height of the deck the 5.4 is noticably higher and it would need a power bulge hood to clear. The 4.6 and 5.4 are the same length and width but from top to bottom the 5.4 is longer and so it would not clear and diffenitly the 2nd Gen Lightning powertrain would have to have a Prostock hood to fit. I should know as I have both and have pondered how a Lightning setup would fit.

[Blue Marauder]

The drive train in the Marauder suits my purposes just fine. But then, I don't drag race, and probably neither do most Marauder owners.

[jokers impala s]

Well if the 5.4 can be dropped in, I think that would be a bad ass mod and a definate SOP difference. Did for ever do a like special one off of the marauder where they just went all out and did it up, u know like GM does with their line, they let Jon Moss and his crew just see what they can do with the vehicles. Itd be interesting to see what can really be done. OK Power Bulge hood can u explain that to me, is that kinda the same as cowl type hood or am I way off here and if it is hell why not, itll just give an even more aggressive look

[mdmarauder]

I'm very happy with the stock powertrain. In addition, nobody is paying sticker for a new Marauder. $27500.00 is a decent deal on one. I think it's a damn good deal for such a car.

[Heavy D.]

The FoMoCo 5.4L and 4.6L both have the same bore size, it's the stroke that makes the difference in displacement. I don't know if that translates into a different block size (maybe the lower??), but the 5.4L (I believe) is only made with an iron lower, which would add a lot of weight.

In my opinion, one of the major reasons is that Ford does not want to cut into Lightning and especially Mustang sales with a car that would probably be almost as fast for similar cash, but larger and presumably safer.

As MAD-3R says, fuel economy is probably the main reason, but I can't imagine the setup from my F-150 (5.4L, 4RW70, 3.55:1 LSD with solid axle) not fitting in the MM (4.6L, 4RW70, 3.55:1 LSD with solid axle) unless the block was significantly "taller". I'll stick a tape measure in both this weekend to see if I can eyeball any big differences...

Unless someone can post the physical dimensions of the two engines...

[Heavy D.]

Dang, by the time I posted this...

BlackHole sounds right on!

[Bigdogjim]

jokers impala s : Welcome aboard.. Ford went with the F-250 trans due to the weight of the MM, around 4200. The 5.4 would not fit in the engine compartment with out some major changes. the car handles vey well for its size, and even Kenny Brown did not due much in that area. As always in the end it come down to $$$ in production.. Some guys are holden off on mods right now to see what will work for the $$ outlay.I am sure it took a while for the SS crews to figure out which way to go as far as mods go???

[Heavy D.]

Bigdogjim,
We have the F-250 transmission? I thought that was the 4RW100, not the 4RW70, or is there a heavy duty version of the 4RW70 used in the F-250?

[Blue Marauder]

Originally posted by Heavy D.
Bigdogjim,
We have the F-250 transmission? I thought that was the 4RW100, not the 4RW70, or is there a heavy duty version of the 4RW70 used in the F-250?

The 4R70W is a light duty transmission used in cars, SUVs, and light trucks (Expedition, F-150) with the 4.6 liter engine. Don't know if that combo is available in the F-250 (assume you mean Super Duty). The E4OD/4R100 is used with the 5.4 liter engines in light trucks and and SUVs (Expedition, Excursion, Super Dutys). It is also used in light trucks and SUVs behind the V-10 and diesels (Excursion, Super Duty). Also used in the Lightning. Since the 5.4 is not used in any cars, the E4OD/4R100 is not used in any cars. The E4OD/4R100 is an updated version of the AODE transmission.

[Heavy D.]

Cool, thanks for the info and corrections Blue Marauder!

[BlackHole]

Blue there is 2 cars with the 5.4L . 00 Cobra R and the Ford GT.

[Blue Marauder]

Originally posted by BlackHole
Blue there is 2 cars with the 5.4L . 00 Cobra R and the Ford GT.

Well, the Cobra R is no longer in production and it used a 6-speed manual, not an E4OD/4R100 auto. The Ford GT is not yet in production, and I believe it will also use a 6-speed manual. I think my original statements are still true. You could not and still can not get a 5.4 liter engine in a car with the E4OD/4R100 auto trans.

[jgc61sr2002]

Originally posted by Blue Marauder
The drive train in the Marauder suits my purposes just fine. But then, I don't drag race, and probably neither do most Marauder owners. Blue Marauder - I concur. John:D

[Fast4Door]

You know, it's surprising that the Marauder ever made it to production. This car fought an uphill battle all the way!

I'm betting the main reason the Lightning drivetrain didn't go in was COST. I remember seeing some "internal do***ents" a few years ago. This program had no money for anything, plus there was a bit of a fight with marketing just to get a "High Performance" engine in the first place. If you can believe it, marketing didn't think Grand Marquis owners wanted 300HP. They didn't realize that the car was intended for a different buyer...

Anyway, a bunch of things had to get "tooled" by other programs before the Marauder could use them.

Aviator tooled most of the engine hardware.
Crown Vic tooled the "5 passenger interior" (console, shifter, seats)
The Tach is a modified Taurus part
etc..

Most of us don't realize how lucky we are that the car ever saw the light of day...

edit
do***ents?? I love the "auto censor" here. maybe I should say "papers" HA

[Blue Marauder]

One could ask the other question:

Why didn't Chevy put a crate 427 in the Impala SS instead of "only" an LT1 350?

It cuts both ways.

[RCSignals]

Originally posted by jokers impala s
I dont like the sticker price on the marader and I wish they wouldve put a better drivetrain setup in it.

What Branch of the service are you in?

The price of the Marauder, factoring in inflation, is less than the Impala SS was, I think.
That said, the Marauder is a steal at the prices it's been selling for.

"Better drivetrain"? Better is a relative term.

As others have said, the drivetrain in the Marauder is very good.
Just think, over 300 HP, NA, from only 281 Cu in

[JLHARVEY1]

I was against the 4.6 DOHC from the get-go. I kept asking, why don't they put a car tuned 5.4 in it? But I changed my mind after I drove it... It only took one drive and I was more than satisfied. So I have no complaints. The only thing that I ask is why didn't Ford use thier 5 speed auto? Or Variable Valve Timing? I think the addition of those two things would make a world of difference with no penalty in fuel consumption.

[jokers impala s]

Army

[Geo]

Blue Marauder said:

"...You could not and still can not get a 5.4 liter engine in a car with the E4OD/4R100 auto trans..."

Actually you can get the 5.4L DOHC 32V motor in the new Ford Falcon XR8, Ford Falcon GT and the Ford Falcon GT-P. All these are 4 door sedans (and also available in the Ford Falcon Pursuit which is like a Ford Ranchero). These cars are available in Australia and one can order an automatic or manual! Actually, the step-shift system would be a welcome mod for Marauder shifter replacement. Instead of the Marauder's 3 quadrants, one would shift up or down by tapping the shifter up or down.

GEO

[Blue Marauder]

Originally posted by Geo
Blue Marauder said:

"...You could not and still can not get a 5.4 liter engine in a car with the E4OD/4R100 auto trans..."

Actually you can get the 5.4L DOHC 32V motor in the new Ford Falcon XR8, Ford Falcon GT and the Ford Falcon GT-P. All these are 4 door sedans (and also available in the Ford Falcon Pursuit which is like a Ford Ranchero). These cars are available in Australia and one can order an automatic or manual! Actually, the step-shift system would be a welcome mod for Marauder shifter replacement. Instead of the Marauder's 3 quadrants, one would shift up or down by tapping the shifter up or down.

GEO

Seems pretty irrelevant to the American market.

[MAD-3R]

I think he was illistrating the point that it CAN be done. Just need the money and engeniering

[RCSignals]

That Australian car is a completely different platform.
Sure it can be done if you start from scratch.
Somehow , I doubt we'll see that 5.4 Falcon here anytime soon.

[Fast4Door]

Originally posted by RCSignals
That Australian car is a completely different platform.
Sure it can be done if you start from scratch.
Somehow , I doubt we'll see that 5.4 Falcon here anytime soon.

That depends on where "here" is and when "soon" is...

I saw a 5.4L Falcon 2 days ago.

OK it was in an engineering garage in Dearborn. ;)
I know that's not what you meant...

[RCSignals]

:lol: yes you know it's not what I meant

[prchrman]

coulda shoulda but no woulda...