LEO on Private Property

[crouse]

On my way home from work on Monday a LEO was set-up in a parking lot of a company in the industrial park near my work with a laser gun. I wasn't exceeding the speed limit enough to get his attention. Can they do that? I mentioned this to some co-wrokers and one guy I trust thought that they couldn't.

[jefferson-mo]

If I'm not doin anything wrong cops can do whatever they want..............

[BLACKMARAUDER04]

We have that here also. They hide on a private driveway where you can't see them. They say they have permission from the landowner to wait there.
Anyway, if you were speeding, you are out of luck.

[DEFYANT]

Police can go anywhere the public can go. In fact, when I worked the road, I used to get a list of citizen requests for speed enforcement. Many openly offered their private lawns and driveways to assist our efforts.

[VNMUS]

Police can go anywhere the public can go. In fact, when I worked the road, I used to get a list of citizen requests for speed enforcement. Many openly offered their private lawns and driveways to assist our efforts.
Interesting info.

[crouse]

What I don't understand is why they hang around the industrial parks and not in the residential areas where people live.

[KAILUAZ]

What I don't understand is why they hang around the industrial parks and not in the residential areas where people live.

Cause thats where all the ricers race. I sit in them all the time. Plus thats where the burglars go on the weekends, cause no one is around. I always get thumbs up from shop owners seeing us drive through those areas.

[TAF]

Cause thats where all the ricers race. I sit in them all the time. Plus thats where the burglars go on the weekends, cause no one is around. I always get thumbs up from shop owners seeing us drive through those areas.

Now see...I thought in the Tampa Bay area...it's best for LEOs to sit behind the Todd Theatre....

:P ;)

[SergntMac]

No one has answered the question correctly yet. Maybe I will, may be not...Let's see?

No.

No, cops cannot enjoy the sanctuary of private property to enforce law on the public way.

In theory, if they want to enforce a speed limit on a public road, they can do that only from the same public road. There are ways around this of course, and permission from the property owner to park and watch from privately owned property is one of them.

Do you get a speeding ticket while on a drag strip? No.

Do IRL and NASCAR drivers report collisions, or, earn "collision points" for being involved in collisions on race tracks? If they did, Dale Earnhardt would have had his driver's license revoked years ago, and no insurance company in the world would have covered him...Ever. So...No.

Can you be cited for speeding through a shopping center parking lot? No (but something else like Reckless Conduct may bite you, don't try this at home, kids).

Without a contract agreement between private property owners and public law enforcement officers, law enforcement that starts on private property, ends at the private property line.

On duty as a cop, if I'm going to shoot traffic, or, set up a DUI roadblock, it has to be founded on public ground. I may use private property after the fact for storage and processing, but my observations of the violation must be made on public ground.

This question has been presented to our Supreme Court, and they have spoken on it. In short, "private property" means private.

[Donny Carlson]

Now see...I thought in the Tampa Bay area...it's best for LEOs to sit behind the Todd Theatre....

:P ;)

But in Sarasota, they sit INSIDE the theatre!!


http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/entertainers/actors/pee-wee-herman/pee-wee-mug.jpg


http://www.bitetv.ca/blog/archives/happy%20pee%20wee.jpg

[TAF]

You forgot something...

CLICK THE PIC.... (http://www.scanil.com/peeweeherman-laugh.wav)

http://www.bitetv.ca/blog/archives/happy%20pee%20wee.jpg (http://www.scanil.com/peeweeherman-laugh.wav)

[Donny Carlson]

You forgot something...

Wow. Actual Police Audio of the crime in progress!!

[Logan]

Yeah, what mac said. I had a laser ticket tossed out, cop was hiding behind a daycare sign on private property, wrote me a ticket for 52 in a 45, I went to court, put him on the stand, "Officer, did you laser my car from behind the sign at so & so daycare?", "Yes", "I assume you brought a letter stating you have permission from the owners?", "Uh, No...". "Your honor, I rest my case."

'nuff said.

[Constable]

Mac, your info may be state specific. Here in NJ, a large amount of traffic laws are enforceable on private property... whether we have permission of the land owner or not. There are no restrictions on using publically accessed areas for surveillance or other types of enforcement. Obviously, though, we will not spend time in spots if the property owners don't want us there. We have to respect their wishes.

[VNMUS]

And here I thought all you LEO's hung out at donuts shops? The safest shops in the country. ;) I'm only joking guys, you have all my respect :bows: Especially any LEO's reading this from MN. :beer:

[LVMarauder]

As always Mac hit the nail on the head. Private property doesn't equate to LEO authority. I know a guy who totalled his 2002 Beetle on private grounds, underage driver, rain caused accident. police showed up but couldn't issue a citation. this happened in a guard gated private community here in vegas. ITs weird to think they have limitations on their reach. We always want them to get the bad guys where ever the offence occurs.

[seans]

As always Mac hit the nail on the head. Private property doesn't equate to LEO authority. I know a guy who totalled his 2002 Beetle on private grounds, underage driver, rain caused accident. police showed up but couldn't issue a citation. this happened in a guard gated private community here in vegas. ITs weird to think they have limitations on their reach. We always want them to get the bad guys where ever the offence occurs.

Something is missing here. If what you say is true then you can assault and even murder someone and nothing can be done about it.:dunno: I'm pretty sure that if he had damaged someone elses private property and they wanted something done, the police would have taken some kind of enforcement action.

[DEFYANT]

Private property that is open to the public is fair game - such as an officer parked on a store parking lot and running RADAR on a public road.

Enforcing traffic law on private property open to the public is different. I would not issue a citation for running a stop sign in a parking lot. Often stores post thier own signs to assist customers at the crosswalk.
But if you run the private posted / owned stop sign and hurt someone, you could be found negligent in civil court.

However, if you are driving like a fool in a parking lot and the argument can be made that the public health and saftey was at risk, I'd just lock the driver up on criminal recklass endangerment - cuz traffic law many not apply.

Persons crimes are a different matter. Assault, Murder - etc are persons crimes. LEOs have the power to enforce those laws.

Same with property crimes.

DUI on private property IS enforceable.

:lol: That is a fantastic example Mac. A speeding ticket on a RACE track? Ca'mon man you have to be reasonable. :rolleyes:

[DEFYANT]

On my way home from work on Monday a LEO was set-up in a parking lot of a company in the industrial park near my work with a laser gun. I wasn't exceeding the speed limit enough to get his attention. Can they do that? I mentioned this to some co-wrokers and one guy I trust thought that they couldn't.

I am not sure if I understand this question and may be reading into it. Was the officer enforcing traffic law on the street from the parking lot, or were you driving through the industrial park where the officer was shooting LASER IN the industrial park?

[Loco1234]

I work at an engineering firm that is right off of a two lane highway....

We are located in the middle of an uphill S-turn known as the narrows cause it goes to 3-4 lanes before and after these turns.....

Many people speed through here... The cops often sit at end of our parking lot to watch for speeders....
They have been given no permission to do so.... If they asked me I would let them....but they sit there often and pull people over...

Not sure if thats legal or not but there is no room on the sides of the roads for them to sit other then our parking lot because these S-turns are inside of a rock cut that used to be an old carriage path....Hence its narrow.

[crouse]

The LEO was parked in the parking lot of a business near my place of work. As I was driving home, I noticed him at the last moment because he was sort of hidden from the street by the trees in front if this business. He was pointing his laser gun at the cars driving past on the street.


I am not sure if I understand this question and may be reading into it. Was the officer enforcing traffic law on the street from the parking lot, or were you driving through the industrial park where the officer was shooting LASER IN the industrial park?

[KAILUAZ]

I've never seen case law in reference to running radar/laser on private property. I don't think a judge would agree that the officer was in the wrong.

[Leadfoot281]

Interesting read.

This happened to a guy from my hometown. He was cutting his grass on a riding lawn mower and drinking a beer. The town cop seen him, stopped his cruiser at the end of his driveway, walked across his yard, and gave him a DWI!

In Minnesota a riding lawn mower is considered a "motor vehical".

In a town with a population of just 1,500 I think it stinks. I also question the whole thing...

Andy Grifith wouldn't have done that.

[wsmylie]

Interesting read.

This happened to a guy from my hometown. He was cutting his grass on a riding lawn mower and drinking a beer. The town cop seen him, stopped his cruiser at the end of his driveway, walked across his yard, and gave him a DWI!

In Minnesota a riding lawn mower is considered a "motor vehical".

In a town with a population of just 1,500 I think it stinks. I also question the whole thing...

Andy Grifith wouldn't have done that. The cop sounds like a real moron. I assume the guy fought it and won?

[VNMUS]

Did he at least cut his lawn straight and even?

[BigMerc]

as far as the lawn mower thing, he is on his own private property and not even a road, either there is more to the story, or thats an easy toss out by any judge.

[Leadfoot281]

He didn't even try to fight it. It's been a while since I spoke to him about it.

In a town of 1,500 people you know everyone. That's no exageration. This guy (a retired teacher) was no trouble maker.

[crouse]

I had to re-open this thread. The company I work for is located on a corner. Well, it's actually more of a curve with a stop sign. A LEO has been parking in our front parking lot at least two times last week pulling people over for running the stop sign. I asked the president/owner of our company if anyone asked his permission to park on the companies property and he said no. So again I ask you, can a LEO do this legally?

[JonW]

Is not the first 8 or 10 feet or whatever alongside a roadway considered public domain? I'd say if a cop is sitting in that area, there's no question that he's legal.

When I was in IL for the Street Machine Nats in the late '80s, a guy in the parking lot of our motel did an awesome burnout with a '69 Road Runner. A state trooper wheeled in and wrote him a ticket. I asked the guy later about it, since we were on private property. He was under the same assumption I was, but said the trooper told him he had the authority to issue the citation.

Laws vary from state to state.

[murphypeople]

If I'm not doin anything wrong cops can do whatever they want..............

Wrong Answer^^^^ In a nation governed by laws...it only works if we all abide by them. This includes the Baker, Banker, LEOs and social workers.

[crouse]

The police car was an almost un-marked gray dodge charger. Regular license plates and a very small decal in the shape of a badge only on the passenger side door. Now I know to watch for him.

[DEFYANT]

I had to re-open this thread. The company I work for is located on a corner. Well, it's actually more of a curve with a stop sign. A LEO has been parking in our front parking lot at least two times last week pulling people over for running the stop sign. I asked the president/owner of our company if anyone asked his permission to park on the companies property and he said no. So again I ask you, can a LEO do this legally?


The officer can sit on the parking lot and observe the traffic flow. Period! If the owners want him to leave, they could tell him. But he'll just find another spot to watch from.

Why do you have a hang up on this? Most businesses WANT a cop sitting in front. FREE SECURITY! Maybe a car thief with a Marauder on his hit list will keep going and not steel your car. Think of that??

[MENINBLK]

This is a nice conversation but the laws vary from state to state.
If a LEO has DOCUMENTED PERMISSION from the Real Estate Property owner,
that allows the LEO the privilege of using a 'property easement' for the purpose of law enforcement,
it had better be DOCUMENTED and NOTARIZED.
This is the ONLY way it will stand up in court, PERIOD.

Notice I never once used the word 'PRIVATE'.
In this day and age of Eminent Domain, there is no such thing
as PRIVATE PROPERTY any more.
You can share your rights of ownership, possession, and use with anyone you choose,
just make sure that the rights you convey are DOCUMENTED and NOTARIZED.

[Leadfoot281]

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c293/leadfoot302/untitled-1.jpg

"...forget it Jake, it's Chinatown".

[murphypeople]

^^^^^deleted some text to save space^^^^^
Notice I never once used the word 'PRIVATE'.
In this day and age of Eminent Domain, there is no such thing
as PRIVATE PROPERTY any more.
You can share your rights of ownership, possession, and use with anyone you choose,
just make sure that the rights you convey are DOCUMENTED and NOTARIZED.

^^^^We all know this is a real issue. Here is a news clip to for the record (http://www.kare11.com/video/player.aspx?aid=45721&sid=250731&bw=) People with short memories always need a reminder:mad2:

[MENINBLK]

^^^^We all know this is a real issue. Here is a news clip to for the record (http://www.kare11.com/video/player.aspx?aid=45721&sid=250731&bw=) People with short memories always need a reminder:mad2:

That will never happen.

You can only take over land by Eminent Domain for a non-profit purpose for public use.
A Ball Park does not fit this use.
Just wait till they get to court.
The only way this will pass is if they get a Judge who knows NOTHING about Real Estate law,
and sadly enough, most Judges are ignorant to Real Estate laws and don't care.

[PJR]

The specifics of enforcement do vary greatly from state to state, city-to-city, etc. There is a difference between enforcing traffic laws on private property and parking on private property to enforce laws on public roadways. In New Mexico, cities that have adopted 'home rule' need a property owner’s permission to enforce traffic law on that property and charge into 'city court'. If the charge is cited in 'county court' no permission is needed. The most common manifestation of this scenario is when we are investigating a crash on private property. (parking lots) Usually we will issue a warning unless damage/injuries are major. More to the point, I have worked traffic enforcement for over twenty years in New Mexico and Arizona and have NEVER had any problems prosecuting a case when I am using private property for enforcement of traffic laws for traffic utilizing a public roadway. The controversial issue in these parts currently is the use of automated red light/radar at major intersections. If your vehicle is photographed speeding or passing through a red light, you receive a civil citation in the mail. It's been a real political football in Albuquerque. Most of the public does not like the 'big brother' overtones of the program, but statistics do show that since the implementation of the program, crashes have been reduced. I work in a suburb of Albuquerque, so we have not had to deal with the issue yet.

[jgc61sr2002]

In NY if the property is available to the public ( such as as parking lof of a mall) then its fair game.