Ford Offers Buyouts to Employees...

[woaface]

If you've been watching the news, Ford offered buyouts ranging from $35000 to $140000 for 75000 of it's employees, all hourly.

If you've been checking out that website FordBoldMoves.com or whatever, there's some pretty interesting video. As hard as it is to admit, Ford and GM have really been getting kicked in the ass by some of the foreign auto makers. You can say Ford sells more cars but if you take out their fleet production it's a different story. I really want to see Ford recover from the point they are today and start posting profit in the next 4 or so years. It would just fullfill my childhood dream of seeing American innovation prosper. I think they're on track and maybe in the next 10 we'll have our muscle cars again...they just simply won't run on gas. Who knows. There's no turning back for Ford now.

[Bluerauder]

If you've been watching the news, Ford offered buyouts ranging from $35000 to $140000 for 75000 of it's employees, all hourly.
The NBC4 news last night said that this might affect as many as 30% of Ford's white collar force and 40% of its blue collar force. Those are some staggering numbers. Good luck to all affected by this news. :(

[STLR FN]

Dodged one bullet today. Gun's loaded for another see if I can dodge it at a later time.

[Hotrauder]

Good luck to all involved, whether ready to take the buyout or wishing to remain. Godspeed. Dennis

[younga1]

"Blue Collar force" ??? Problem is their blue collar force has been been getting white collar pay and benefits.

That's why there in the shape they are in.

[STLR FN]

"Blue Collar force" ??? Problem is their blue collar force has been been getting white collar pay and benefits.

That's why there in the shape they are in.Ummmm OK. If you say so.

[Dragcity]

Oh No, Not again.

Dad always said...."don't mess with a Man's livelyhood, or his God"

[GreekGod]

"Blue Collar force" ??? Problem is their blue collar force has been been getting white collar pay and benefits.

That's why there in the shape they are in.

Certainly wouldn't be poor management, would it? The buck stops at the blue collar worker? Chrysler's high paid (same pay as Ford workers?) must be in the same boat as Ford workers then, too?

[younga1]

Don't get me wrong, I am a fan of the big three and all involved in building them. No ricer in my garage. Now or ever!!

However, it is what it is. There all hurting!

Perhaps I'm still a little bitter about not getting that job with GM??

[Meteorite]

It is going to be hard to dodge the bullet this time, I think.

I am salaried, so I think they are going to dump 33% of us, according to the news this morning.

They will start off by offering voluntary separations, but not enough people will take them up on it. After that (1st quarter 2007) it will be involuntary.

I'm thinking of moving my computer keyboard and monitor to under my desk for the next year or so, and hiding out until this is over.

It's not going to be a piece of cake for those who stay, either! Suddenly, we are supposed to come out with more wonderful product than ever, with only 2/3 of present staffing levels? :shake:

[Drock96Marquis]

"Blue Collar force" ??? Problem is their blue collar force has been been getting white collar pay and benefits.

That's why there in the shape they are in.


IMo, the retirement/pension pay outs for yearrrrrrs is what is killing them.
The foreign car makers don't have that weight on their shoulder's to overcome.
THe union(s) don't seem to help things much, either.

[bigslim]

"Blue Collar force" ??? Problem is their blue collar force has been been getting white collar pay and benefits.

That's why there in the shape they are in.
Speak on what you know. I seem to remember people cheering when we were spending all of those "union" dollars around the country when times were good.

BTW, did you see what they paying the new CEO? He hasn't even done anything and has already made close to $20 million. I don't remember me getting my $20 million check.

I don't think this is the time to get into this discussion. Try to be considerate of those that may not benefit from this.

[GreekGod]

It is going to be hard to dodge the bullet this time, I think.

I am salaried, so I think they are going to dump 33% of us, according to the news this morning.

They will start off by offering voluntary separations, but not enough people will take them up on it. After that (1st quarter 2007) it will be involuntary.

I'm thinking of moving my computer keyboard and monitor to under my desk for the next year or so, and hiding out until this is over.

It's not going to be a piece of cake for those who stay, either! Suddenly, we are supposed to come out with more wonderful product than ever, with only 2/3 of present staffing levels? :shake:

Unless Ford is top-heavy with engineers (unlikely), the future can't be bright for the remaining workers. I'm sure the hints of future skilled labor and experienced engineering shortages will prove troublesome for the reminant, including the clueless that got Ford into this mess.

[Mad4Macs]

BTW, did you see what they paying the new CEO? He hasn't even done anything and has already made close to $20 million. I don't remember me getting my $20 million check.


Yeah, couldn't agree more. I was shocked and disgusted when the Detroit News posted his bonus. 2 mil a year salary, 18.5 mil for signing.
Hey, Ford? Here's an idea. Why don't you shut ALL your plants and fire ALL your workers? I'm sure you'll turn a profit paying out multi-million $$$ salaries to the exec's up top.
Oh, wait. How about building cars that people want to buy, hmmm?
<rant off>

[Glenn]

No offense to any UAW member or Bigslim, but I remember the big UAW strikes years ago at GM and Ford. Management at both companies caved-in to the unreasonable UAW demands and gave them any thing they wanted to get them back to work. All that management was thinking about was how much profit they could get during their time as the CEOs and their stock options and bonuses. They had no concern that they were killing the companies 20-30 years later with huge retirement and medical benefits. Management did not care what they were doing and the UAW didn't care what they were doing to kill off the company years later. Both are equally to blame for the mess they have created. Greed on both sides has lead to killing GM and Ford to the glee of Toyota, Honda, etc.

Glenn

[bigslim]

No offense to any UAW member or Bigslim, but I remember the big UAW strikes years ago at GM and Ford. Management at both companies caved-in to the unreasonable UAW demands and gave them any thing they wanted to get them back to work. All that management was thinking about was how much profit they could get during their time as the CEOs and their stock options and bonuses. They had no concern that they were killing the companies 20-30 years later with huge retirement and medical benefits. Management did not care what they were doing and the UAW didn't care what they were doing to kill off the company years later. Both are equally to blame for the mess they have created. Greed on both sides has lead to killing GM and Ford to the glee of Toyota, Honda, etc.

Glenn
But remember, our so called "greed" is what keeps this nation going. The Blue Collar Force" spends more dollars than anyone else. I still see no one complaining when we were supporting their companies and businesses. Maybe when we can't afford to support the other businesses people will say "Man, I wish those union workers were making more money so they could support us".

[GreekGod]

When Congress added a luxury tax to yachts, the wealthy quit buying them. All the builders in Florida laid off the craftsmen that were building the yachts. Taxes are regressive to the economy. Increase taxes and cool the economy.

I'm sure the luxury tax hurt the economy in Florida, just as Ford's decline will hurt the nation.

When Ford came out with the Taurus, I saw one first in the movie Robocop. What a fresh look they had, very impressive! They were well received and made Ford outstanding profits. It could happen again.

[Ken]

Good luck to all affected by this news. :(As someone that just qualified for my pension last month. Uncle Sam and I will accept my $35,000 check and thank FORD for a good 30 yr. career and wish it the best and move on to the next step in life. Auto Assembly took its toll on me. I watched a lot of guys not make it a whole day, let alone till the end of the week, before they walked off and quit. It's time for something less strenuous in life.
:beer:
Ken

[Ken]

"Blue Collar force" ??? Problem is their blue collar force has been been getting white collar pay and benefits.

That's why there in the shape they are in.Would he be singing this tune if he got his job at GM?

[Ken]

No offense to any UAW member or Bigslim, but I remember the big UAW strikes years ago at GM and Ford. Management at both companies caved-in to the unreasonable UAW demands and gave them any thing they wanted to get them back to work. All that management was thinking about was how much profit they could get during their time as the CEOs and their stock options and bonuses. They had no concern that they were killing the companies 20-30 years later with huge retirement and medical benefits. Management did not care what they were doing and the UAW didn't care what they were doing to kill off the company years later. Both are equally to blame for the mess they have created. Greed on both sides has lead to killing GM and Ford to the glee of Toyota, Honda, etc.

GlennIs it the Big Three's fault that medical costs and therefore Insurance has skyrocketed. The Big Three have budgeted and/or funded their pension plans. Medical costs are spiraling out of control. FORD and GM also have to design a car that we want to buy. Its a sad day when I'm (a FORD employee) drooling over the MOPAR products, and would even consider one. Ford only has one vehicle that I like today and that's the Mustang, and it's too small for a family. I haven't felt that way since the late seventies, when I bought a Pontiac.
Ken

[Pat]

Because, son, it's the Republican's way of providing welfare to the engineers, on the taxpayers back.

Ford will sink and so will GM but foreign investment will resurrect the brands and they will build cars, trucks and other products without union or benefit packages as we know them and none of the previous debt.

[JACook]

When Ford came out with the Taurus, I saw one first in the movie Robocop. What a fresh look they had, very impressive! They were well received and made Ford outstanding profits. It could happen again.

Please, God, I certainly hope not.

The Taurus made a styling statement that shaped the entire industry, for a while anyway. It sold very
well and made Ford a ton of money. But Taurus and it's derivatives also made Ford a lot of enemies.

The one downside to having such a popular car is that, if it's not a very good car, a whole lot of people
are going to know it. Taurus was not a particularly good car. The Taurus-based Lincoln Continental
was not a good car. The Windstar was a particularly horrible car. I owned two of those miserable POSs
before I learned the first one wasn't a fluke. These cars did an awful lot of damage to Ford's reputation.

Contrast this with cars like Accord and Camry. They're not my cup of tea, but these cars solidify their
makers' well earned reputation for quality and service. As a result, they are perennial best-sellers, without
having to bribe buyers with expensive rebates and 0% financing. Right now, if I were in the market for
this class of car, I wouldn't even give the Fusion a first look, let alone second. It might well be the best
car Ford's ever built, but it's carrying an awful lot of baggage, and I'm no longer willing to take the chance.

I lay this squarely at Billy Ford's feet. All this whining about pension costs is just another lame excuse
designed to divert attention away from years of bad decisions. Ford has been building cars that are only
just good enough to get by, and they've been doing it on purpose.

Cost cutting is never going to get the job done if sales continue to slide, and I'm tired of lame excuses.
If there is to be any recovery at Ford, it's going to take a sustained commitment to building products that
are more than just good enough. I want great cars that stay great long past their payment books.
I want style, I want performance, I want reliability, I want soul. And because I've been burned in the
past, I want at least a 50K-mile warranty, and dealers that will actually honor it.

What I don't want is to see any evidence that the accountants were allowed anywhere near the product.

Right now, Ford is talking a good game, product-wise, but it's going to take time to turn people around.

[Mad4Macs]

Why are we going to the moon again, daddy?


Because, son, it's the Republican's way of providing welfare to the engineers, on the taxpayers back.

Gee, why don't we just go back to torches and animal skins, picking berries off of trees and peeing in holes in the ground? So much for science, education and the future! Man, it's a good thing that the President who kick started the space program was a Republican! Wait! You mean that one of the finest Presidents of the century (the man who sent us to the moon, by the way) was a Democrat?
Hey, while we're at it, why don't we tear down the pyramids, burn the libraries, and stop researching alternative fuels, too? Remember, science is BAD (As long as it's not your party doing it.).
:shake:

[Smokie]

I won't play the who's fault it is game; white collar vs. union. There is enough fault to go around and I will leave it at that.

I do know this for a fact: Ford does not give a damn what kind of cars I like. The Mustang is not enough. Ford wants to please women, homosexuals and tree huggers more than men.

So IN MY OPINION Ford has little to offer a man...

[GreekGod]

I understand what (Mr.?) JACook is saying and agree with his analysis, except:


If there is to be any recovery at Ford, it's going to take a sustained commitment to building products that
are more than just good enough. I want great cars that stay great long past their payment books.
I want style, I want performance, I want reliability, I want soul. And because I've been burned in the
past, I want at least a 50K-mile warranty, and dealers that will actually honor it.



The Panther platform is a sustained committment, more than just good enough, etc. and Ford's best. The latest news is they have changed their minds and will build the Town Car at the Ontario plant.

I can add that the F-Series almost meets M. Cooks criteria for a great car. The F-Series is a 9 out of 10 top of the heap of light duty trucks.

The only problem is, F-150's, Gran Marquis', Town Cars, Crown Victorias and the popularity of the Mustang and GT isn't enough to save Ford .

[Meteorite]

The Taurus-based Lincoln Continental was not a good car.
What do you base this on? The customer satisfaction was quite high for this product.

[JACook]

What do you base this on? The customer satisfaction was quite high for this product.

Guess that's the problem with the way the industry collects their numbers. IMO, JD Power numbers are :bs:

The Taurus-based Continental had a bit of a problem with head gaskets, as did the '95 Windstar, which used
the same 3.8L engine. The heads were revised in '96. Then there was the AXOD transaxle, and it's descendants,
AX4N and AX4S. The AX4N was the best of the bunch, but none was ever very smooth or durable in any of the
cars Ford put it into.

Personal experience here. Had all 3 models in the family.

I'm sure there are many who had these and were happy with them, but those who had problems found that
they had a lot of company. Many sued.

Perhaps a better barometer of these cars' reputations would be the massive incentives it took to move them off
the dealers' lots? Or maybe their terrible resale values?

[JACook]

I understand what (Mr.?) JACook is saying and agree with his analysis, except:
The Panther platform is a sustained committment, more than just good enough, etc. and Ford's best.

I can add that the F-Series almost meets M. Cooks criteria for a great car. The F-Series is a 9 out of 10 top of the heap of light duty trucks.

The only problem is, F-150's, Gran Marquis', Town Cars, Crown Victorias and the popularity of the Mustang and GT isn't enough to save Ford .

Please. Call me Jeff. It's in my sig. :)

As much as I love my MM, Ford has not kept pace with Panther, vs what's coming out of Daimler-Chrysler,
let alone Lexus, Infiniti, Cadillac... The changes Ford has made seem to be aimed more towards what the fleet
buyers wanted, vs what would make the car more competitive in the showroom. Up until recently, Ford has
had the Panther's market all to itself, and they've been milking it.

As for the F150, I'll take your word for it. I dislike trucks, and blame Ford's fixation on the F150 for a lot of
what's wrong with the company.

Out of all of the models you mention, only one I'd buy today is Mustang. But I already have... umm... 5.
(OK, I'd also buy a GT, if I could afford one.)

These days, I'm of a mind to wait and see if Dodge manages to get the Challenger into production without
putting a truck grille on it. For as long as I've been a Ford guy, that speaks volumes.

[Meteorite]

The Taurus-based Continental had a bit of a problem with head gaskets, as did the '95 Windstar, which used the same 3.8L engine.
The Continental that had the high Customer Sat was the 4.6L with the AX4N (a.k.a. 4F50N). The 3.8L and the AX4S ... umm ... not so much.

[Bruce Wayne]

Wow! who was it that said Ford dosen't build a mans car and that he lusts over the daimler chrysler brands.What about our Marauder's, this is a Marauder site, if there ever was a mans car, it would be our beloved MM,s and if you still want to whine, go get a Ford GT, or maybe an Austin Martin , I think Ford has all the bases covered in this category. Maybe you like the looks of the gm caliber too eh!

[KillJoy]

Wow! who was it that said Ford dosen't build a mans car and that he lusts over the daimler chrysler brands.What about our Marauder's, this is a Marauder site, if there ever was a mans car, it would be our beloved MM,s and if you still want to whine, go get a Ford GT, or maybe an Austin Martin , I think Ford has all the bases covered in this category. Maybe you like the looks of the gm caliber too eh!


The MM is no longer manufactured, and the GT is out of most of our price ranges :rolleyes:

KillJoy

[GreekGod]

The MM is no longer manufactured, and the GT is out of most of our price ranges :rolleyes:

KillJoy
There, I said it. The Crown Vic LX Sport is, for all practical purposes, a Marauder.

[jerrym3]

My father-in-law (rip) and my brother-in-law retired from Ford. I don't know what they received regarding pensions, but I know it will be much greater than I will get.

After spending 17 years with one company, and another 10 with another, I will be calling it quits soon. If I get 10-12K per year in pensions, that will be a lot.

I'm not complaining. I left Ford in 1970 after five years, and went into management with other firms. I've had a decent paying career, and I've been able to leverage my 401K and IRA contributions along with stock market investments. I will be just fine in retirement.

But, I just do not understand (and I'm also saying this about our greedy politicians and their pension plans), why does a company, any company or government (excluding SS, for which we contributed to over many years), owe anyone a living after they have left the company? The same can be said for our police and fireman. I have no problem with them getting a good, liveable salary while working, but why are my taxes supporting them forever?

(In Bergen County NJ, policeman, with some OT, are into 6 figures. Officers are getting 150K and better. In many cases, they can retire with large lump sum payments due to "unused sick days". Taxes on my 2,000 square foot home, 1/4 acre, are now $6,000 per year, and I'm in a town with a decent tax rate. A tax revolt is starting.)

Sure, 30 years at one company is a long time (as is 17 and 10 years), and you dedicated your working life to that firm, but they also supported you and your family for those 30 years. And yes, when you need one, there's no more comfortable feeling than having a police or fireman there to help you, and being one is a dangerous profession, but they knew that going in. As I said earlier, while they work, pay them what they deserve.

My present company (70,000 employees wordwide) had a pension plan, but chose to do away with it about 7-8 years ago. I was just at the brink of getting some cash back, or having a pension payment at age 65.

I will get $95 per month from them at age 65. (Yahoo!)

My prior company had two pension plans, killed them both, but again, I was vested, so I will get about a combined $700 per month from the two plans.

It was my responsibility to plan for my future and old age. As a younger man, if I saw problems ahead (which I did), then it was my responsibility to get an education and a better paying job.

I don't fault unions for getting workers decent pay, but the cost of the ongoing benefits are starting to be felt now that there's global competition.

On the other side of the coin, senior management bonuses and perks in this country are sinful, so there's plenty of blame to go around.

[Ken]

My father-in-law (rip) and my brother-in-law retired from Ford. I don't know what they received regarding pensions, but I know it will be much greater than I will get.

After spending 17 years with one company, and another 10 with another, I will be calling it quits soon. If I get 10-12K per year in pensions, that will be a lot.

I'm not complaining. I left Ford in 1970 after five years, and went into management with other firms. I've had a decent paying career, and I've been able to leverage my 401K and IRA contributions along with stock market investments. I will be just fine in retirement.

But, I just do not understand (and I'm also saying this about our greedy politicians and their pension plans), why does a company, any company or government (excluding SS, for which we contributed to over many years), owe anyone a living after they have left the company? The same can be said for our police and fireman. I have no problem with them getting a good, liveable salary while working, but why are my taxes supporting them forever?

(In Bergen County NJ, policeman, with some OT, are into 6 figures. Officers are getting 150K and better. In many cases, they can retire with large lump sum payments due to "unused sick days". Taxes on my 2,000 square foot home, 1/4 acre, are now $6,000 per year, and I'm in a town with a decent tax rate. A tax revolt is starting.)

Sure, 30 years at one company is a long time (as is 17 and 10 years), and you dedicated your working life to that firm, but they also supported you and your family for those 30 years. And yes, when you need one, there's no more comfortable feeling than having a police or fireman there to help you, and being one is a dangerous profession, but they knew that going in. As I said earlier, while they work, pay them what they deserve.

My present company (70,000 employees wordwide) had a pension plan, but chose to do away with it about 7-8 years ago. I was just at the brink of getting some cash back, or having a pension payment at age 65.

I will get $95 per month from them at age 65. (Yahoo!)

My prior company had two pension plans, killed them both, but again, I was vested, so I will get about a combined $700 per month from the two plans.

It was my responsibility to plan for my future and old age. As a younger man, if I saw problems ahead (which I did), then it was my responsibility to get an education and a better paying job.

I don't fault unions for getting workers decent pay, but the cost of the ongoing benefits are starting to be felt now that there's global competition.

On the other side of the coin, senior management bonuses and perks in this country are sinful, so there's plenty of blame to go around.We all make our own choices in life. We have to live with the consequences. Don't complain if someone else made a better choice than you.
If Ford and their designers were at the top of their game. They wouldn't be in the position they are now. Now Ford has to live with the consequence of their actions (or inaction).

Ken

[Ken]

There, I said it. The Crown Vic LX Sport is, for all practical purposes, a Marauder.I don't think so! Has anyone sold their MM to purchase a new LX Sport?

Ken

[Bluerauder]

This morning on the news, one of the bigwigs at Ford Motor Company indicated that distinctive engineering and designs were the key to Ford's future. Moreover, he stated that one of his goals was ..."To get people to recognize a Ford from 50 feet away". :rolleyes:

He's not setting the bar high enough ... I can read the blue oval from 50 feet. I remember a time when I could identify a Ford from a Chevy from a Dodge from at least a 1/4 mile away.

[Tallboy]

This morning on the news, one of the bigwigs at Ford Motor Company indicated that distintive engineering and designs were the key to Ford's future. Moreover, he stated that one of his goals was ..."To get people to recognize a Ford from 50 feet away". :rolleyes:

He not setting the bar high enough ... I can read the blue oval from 50 feet. I remember a time when I could identify a Ford from a Chevy from a Dodge from at least a 1/4 mile away.


I used to be able to ID them by the lights in my rearview mirror at night...no more.

[GreekGod]

I don't think so! Has anyone sold their MM to purchase a new LX Sport?

Ken

They would if Ford updated the Panther platform with:

1) A slightly detuned "Boss 7 Liter" (Hurricane project) V8
a. lets say 400 hp naturally aspirated

2) Fresh new styling (a Starliner or Starlifter roof?)

3) Big brakes standard on the new "Sport 7 Litre"
a. D-hole steel 18x10" black wheels

4) No nonsense rubber mat floor instead of carpet

5) Police wiring package for installing aftermarket high powered sub-amp
a. radio delete for double DIN navigation/radio head unit
b. interior with 4-6" speaker cutouts & 12" sub speaker box in the trunk

6) Auto 6 speed trans, 4.30 Detroit locker, 31 spline semi-floating axles

7) $35,000 retail pricing

Otherwise, just get a LX Sport and add a supercharger to the 4.6 SOHC ;)