Which MAF And TB are people running

[Eric91Z]

OK, for those of you that have decided to "upgrade" or go for larger MAF and TB's, which ones are you running? I am putting together a parts list of supporting modes that I would like to go along with the Trilogy when I get one. I already have the JLT CAI. So, hopefully MAF and TB that will work with those.

I was kind of thinking Lightning 90mm MAF and Accufab TB. Thoughts or inputs? What are others running with good, reliable results?

[Krytin]

I did not change my MAF but I did install the JLT kit and then I installed an ACCufab 62mm twin T/B.
I just got re-tuned yesterday. The original custom tune from PSP on my XCalII was w/stock intake. We did a baseline on that tune after I installed the CAI & T/B and got 255.69 hp - 284.58ft/lbs.
After several pulls/tunes we settled at 269.63hp - 293.46ft/lbs (there was one tune/pull @ 271hp - 301ft/lbs. but after playing w/the timing the final pull stands)

[TAF]

I have the stock TB, and a Lightning 90mm MAF on my N/A Marauder along with a custom tune by Aric Carrion of Injected Engineering.

[Dennis Reinhart]

OK, for those of you that have decided to "upgrade" or go for larger MAF and TB's, which ones are you running? I am putting together a parts list of supporting modes that I would like to go along with the Trilogy when I get one. I already have the JLT CAI. So, hopefully MAF and TB that will work with those.

I was kind of thinking Lightning 90mm MAF and Accufab TB. Thoughts or inputs? What are others running with good, reliable results?

There is nothing wrong with the stock Maf and as far as changing the TB out I personly do not see the need unless you are going SC, you would be spending over 500.00 to change both of these out, not including a re'tune. I would spend that some where else unless, you have a very heavly mod'ed car all ready

[Eric91Z]

There is nothing wrong with the stock Maf and as far as changing the TB out I personly do not see the need unless you are going SC, you would be spending over 500.00 to change both of these out, not including a re'tune. I would spend that some where else unless, you have a very heavly mod'ed car all ready

This would be to go along with a supercharger. Not just as standalone upgrades on a NA car.

[Mike]

I have a Lightning 90mm, but what is a TB?

[94_302]

I have a Lightning 90mm, but what is a TB?
Throttle Body

[Mike]

Thanks 94 302, I'm still trying to figure out all of the abbreviations.

[MikesMerc]

I'm running a SCT BA-2400 90mm MAF Meter. Works awesome with 60lb injectors with the right tuning.

As for the TB, I'm not hot on that particular mod. I've seen a lot of aftermarket TB installs that left the car with a "twitchy" pedal feel. I really like the stock peice for the best driveability.

[Joe Walsh]

I've got an 80mm C&L MAF with the ACCUFAB twin TB that was available in a group buy earlier this year.
I had a dyno-tune done after the C&L MAF install, but have not had it re-dyno'ed after the ACCUFAB TB install.

[KillJoy]

I personly do not see the need unless you are going SC

Dennis, what kind of an increase would an upgraded TB show ITRW??

KillJoy

[SergntMac]

Dennis is posting solid advice, and it's coming from a vendor who could remain silent and possibly sell you those mods. That's a pretty strong statement, IMHO, and thank you for being frank, Dennis.

Eric, it's too soon in your performance growth to consider either mod and expect to see a reasonable payback for your investment. Bank the coin, do a base supercharger kit of choice first, then use these mods to refine your power as you come to need them.

For the record, I had the 90mm SCT BA 2400 on my #1x car. It was installed to solve a tuning problem and it worked very well towards to that end. I honestly cannot see how it would provide any performance gains in a N/A application. If you are having tuning issues at a certain power point, it can be a solution for problems, and by solving those problems, you may end up with more RWHP and RWTQ. But, that's more the outcome of a stable tune, than a MAF upgrade alone.

I have the Accufab TB as well, didn't keep it on the car, 'cause after the tuning problem was solved with the SCT Big Air, the car ran better without it.

BTW, in it's stock form, the JLT kit will not fit the larger MAFs. It's designed for the stock 80mm, you'll need additional parts to make it work.

Just my .02C, carry on gents.

[TooManyFords]

nevermind!

[magindat]

Dennis, what kind of an increase would an upgraded TB show ITRW??

KillJoy

It's not much, if any. For NA it's bling and throttle response along with a little more aggressive sound (esp w/a JLT).

[KillJoy]

It's not much, if any. For NA it's bling and throttle response along with a little more aggressive sound (esp w/a JLT).

Sorry.... what I meant to say is....in a Supercharger Application ;)

KillJoy

[Bradley G]

Stock for both maf and throttle body.
I did polish the rough casting on the OEM one.
Dave (mod) has an Accufab polished throttle body with the Trilogy.
Nice looking piece with a polished Kit! :cool:
This induction topic, though discussed umpteen times, still has untraveled territory!
Makes me think, some people would rather talk, than discuss.:stupid:

[SergntMac]

Indeed he did say "with a Trilogy", but I do not see how the style of supercharging affects these two components.

Whether you choose the Roots concept, or, the centrifugal concept, all concepts are built around the stock throttle body, and Mass Air Flow sensor, and continue to use the stock parts without any impact to the supercharging process.

However, the endless pool of professional talent in the tuning industry continues to push tunes and tweaks to phenominal levels, sooner or later, a deficiency in either component may rise to the surface. If this turns out to be the case for Eric, there are improvements he can make. Until then, these improvements are cures for obstacles discovered in tuning, not a high performance mod with gain in the customary use of the phrase.

This induction topic, though discussed umpteen times, still has untraveled territory! Makes me think, some people would rather talk, than discuss.:stupid: Care to elaborate?

What's the untraveled territory?

What is the difference between talking and discussing?

[Krytin]

From my own personal experience, the orginal custom tune I had done on a stock setup - intake & exhaust - there was a significant drop in hp and torque after 5200 rpm. Both curves took a nose dive. This may have been attributable to other things but after some discusion with Sal @ PSP who was doing the tune, we felt the stock intake might be a good place to start. I installed the JLT CAI and a few weeks latter got a deal I couldn't refuse from blackened300a on a throttle body. Once the T/B was installed, I felt I was running a bit rich (sparkplug/tailpipe inspections) so I decided to bump the spark a couple of degrees on my own w/the XCal II. This worked out well and this last Saturday it went on the dyno @ PSP (see post at begining of thread) and w/a little more timing/fuel adjustments we arrived at the results posted earlier.

I would give most of the credit for the gains to the CAI but the T/B helped and they both eliminated the drop in the hp/torque curves. Were they worth the money? For me yes. I have no intention of S/Cing the stock motor. My next mods will be to the exhaust.
When this motor gives up I'll see about that 5.4l.

[magindat]

Once the T/B was installed, I felt I was running a bit rich (sparkplug/tailpipe inspections)...I would give most of the credit for the gains to the CAI but the T/B helped... Were they worth the money? For me yes. I have no intention of S/Cing the stock motor.

I agree with Krytin...
I have also been running rich with the TB on Reinhart's base tune. Obviously this has nothing to do with the quality of the base tune, just referencing what I'm currently using. I have every confidence that the TB will show it's value when tuning on 10/16 when I visit Dennis for other mods and a dyno run. I also do not intend to supercharge (but then again, I didn't intend to get 4.10's, either). I believe that tuning this rich condition will balance the slight loss in mileage to the 4.10's.

[SergntMac]

That's correct, gents. When you add more air, the EEC will react by adding/pulling fuel, and this is where each Marauder will exhibit a different response to custom tuning.

I spent yesterday (12 hours) at the dyno with Zack and Corey Simpson, so a lot of this is fresh in my mind. I'm no tuner, but I have peeked over enough talented shoulders to learn that tuning software is full of preset tables, choices for the EEC to make when something changes.

One Marauder may go lean (which oddly, produces more power, but with more risk) while another may go rich. Even others may flip-flop back and forth, as it has been expressed here. This is why we custom tune in the first place, to rewrite the reference tables for the performance and reliability we seek.

IMHO, if you replace just the TB on a otherwise stock Marauder, you're not going to see such behavior, been there did that. The throttle body manages air flow by reducing flow turbulence inside the intake manifold. It allows more air to flow smoother (up to 62mm, vs. 57mm on the stock TB), but it does not produce additional air volume.

An improvement to air flow volume is seen with induction mods, such as the JLT kit mentioned, or, the K&N kit (and others). They add that important additional air, and the improved TB has something to work with. In the end, you earn additional power and AF stability through the RPM range, but that's the product of a tuner refining tables, not a throttle body upgrade.

Just my .02C, hope this helps.

[Krytin]

Exactly what he ^^^ said!
We spent a whole lot of time playing with the spark tables to get a safe tune!