No Oil pressure! Please help!

[BillyGman]

First let me say right up front, that this doesn't have to do with any of my engines, but it has to do with a friend of mine, who has a 460 Ford engine in his old Mustang...

The engine is rebuilt, and only has several miles on it. He was driving the car, and everything was good when suddenly he heard some bad noises in the engine, and he looked at the oil pressure gauge, and it was reading zero!

He then shut it down immediately. The confusing part of this for him, is that when he got the car back home, and began to investigate, he found that when he spins the oil pump with one of those oil priming tools that are placed in the distributor hole of the intake manifold, he gets plenty of oil volume going up to the heads. So neither him nor myself can figure out how it can be that he's getting plenty of oil volume from the pump, but yet no pressure. How can this be? What can be causing this? Can anyone shed any light on this?

[O's Fan Rich]

What does the drive rod look like? Is it there? Is the distrbutor end good?

[BillyGman]

What does the drive rod look like? Is it there? Is the distrbutor end good? I'll have to ask him this. I haven't seen the engine since it was first installed in the car, which was before this happened. Him & I were discussing this yesterday. I'll inquire.

[ScottB]

So by manually spinning the pump you got oil pressure reading on the same gage that showed zero? I was going to suggest the sender or a connection but those things don't generally fix themselves. A 460 won't run for too long without pressure.

[crouse]

Is it possible that a high volume pump was installed during the rebuild and it sucked the oil pan dry?

[BillyGman]

Is it possible that a high volume pump was installed during the rebuild and it sucked the oil pan dry?Hmmm, that's an interesting point you have there. It is a high volume /high pressure pump. Perhaos he needs to have oil restrictors installed somewhere to prevent all the oil from being up at the cylinder heads. I know that some aftermarket Chevy blocks have what's refered to as 'main priority oiling" to keep the oil supply at the main bearings when using high volume pumps.

[O's Fan Rich]

I know that the FE engines ( 352, 390, 427, 428) should have the restrictors installed to keep the oil in the pan not the valve covers, especiall with a hv pump. I have not heard of a need to do this with the 429/460's. But it could very well be.

[TooManyFords]

I bet he has a Mallory Distributor and that he sheered the drive pin on the cam drive gear. I've got one on my shelf in the garage for the same reason.

Just a guess.

John

[BillyGman]

In order to get more details from him, I just called him, and according to what he just told me, there are probably other issues with this engine.

Up until now, he has been somewhat tight lipped about this engine, and he has just admitted to me that the secrecy was due to the fact that he wanted to get his car to beat my daily driver (which it was never fast enough to do in the past).

This guy has engines sitting around all over the place. He has 17 cars too! Some of the engines he has ( including the one that this thread is about) have been sitting around in his garage for 10 years after being rebuilt!! So I haven't any doubt that the cylinder walls are all rusted up. It turns out that he didn't take my advice about squirting oil in the cylinders to store them, as well as squirting some more in them before he started it up after it sat for 10 years.

He also told me that he noticed that after merely running the car for a few miles with fresh oil in the engine, the oil was very black as if though it had been in there for numerous miles. So none of this sounds too good, and he has just decided that he's just gonna take another 460 engine that he has, and install that one. Only this time he's going to take my advice about getting some oil on the cylinder walls first.

He's a great friend, and he has much more experience with high perf cars than I do, but sometimes I think that because of his greater amount of experience, he doesn't take my advice on certain things even if the advice is applicable and sound.

BTW John, I let him know about what you've stated about the pin being sheared off. That sounds like a possibility to me. And I must say, that you have me scared, because I have a Mallory distributor on my high dollar 632 engine! Is there some type of issue with these distributors?<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

[RR|Suki]

In order to get more details from him, I just called him, and according to what he just told me, there are probably other issues with this engine.

Up until now, he has been somewhat tight lipped about this engine, and he has just admitted to me that the secrecy was due to the fact that he wanted to get his car to beat my daily driver (which it was never fast enough to do in the past).

This guy has engines sitting around all over the place. He has 17 cars too! Some of the engines he has ( including the one that this thread is about) have been sitting around in his garage for 10 years after being rebuilt!! So I haven't any doubt that the cylinder walls are all rusted up. It turns out that he didn't take my advice about squirting oil in the cylinders to store them, as well as squirting some more in them before he started it up after it sat for 10 years.

He also told me that he noticed that after merely running the car for a few miles with fresh oil in the engine, the oil was very black as if though it had been in there for numerous miles. So none of this sounds too good, and he has just decided that he's just gonna take another 460 engine that he has, and install that one. Only this time he's going to take my advice about getting some oil on the cylinder walls first.

He's a great friend, and he has much more experience with high perf cars than I do, but sometimes I think that because of his greater amount of experience, he doesn't take my advice on certain things even if the advice is applicable and sound.

BTW John, I let him know about what you've stated about the pin being sheared off. That sounds like a possibility to me. And I must say, that you have me scared, because I have a Mallory distributor on my high dollar 632 engine! Is there some type of issue with these distributors?<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

What in the name of all that is good do you guys do for a living? I want in! :P

[Marauderjack]

Hey Billy,

Like John said the drive pin in the distributor gear is probably sheared....very prevalent with high volume pumps and 20w50 oils!!:argue:

Pop the top off the distributor if it is still in the engine now and see if the rotor will turn by hand....if so it is the drive pin.:cool:

How's your MONSTER project coming??

Good Luck!!

Marauderjack:burnout:

[AstroVic]

What in the name of all that is good do you guys do for a living? I want in! :P

I can tell you this:

They aren't cops.

[O's Fan Rich]

What in the name of all that is good do you guys do for a living? I want in! :P

There have been way too many threads on what we all do for a living.

[RR|Suki]

There have been way too many threads on what we all do for a living.

I was kidding with him :P

[TooManyFords]

And I must say, that you have me scared, because I have a Mallory distributor on my high dollar 632 engine! Is there some type of issue with these distributors?<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

If I were you I'd pull it and toss it aside... Get yourself one of the good MSD's with the advance curves you set from the outside. I believe Accel also has a billit aluminum unit that is similar.

Google for "Mallory sheared pin" and there are just too many, not withstanding my own sitting here. (Anyone want a cheap Unilite for a 351C/460?)

Besides, you don't want the parts that do fall off floating around in there.

John

[Tallboy]

Good answers and advice so far, Billy.

By the way-this guy wouldn't live in Naugatuck, would he?

Fits the description of an old friend...:)

[cyclone03]

If the oil pressure went to zero and the engine was still running its not the drive gear pin.
When the pin breaks the distribiter stops turning,the oil pump is driven off the same shaft that the point/reluctor runs on.

[BillyGman]

I'm gonna try and take a ride by this guy's house on the weekend to see for myself what the heck happened to his engine. And I'll get him yo show me that distributor, as well as the oil pump shaft.

As for the questions that have been posed by many of you, here are some answers.....

What do we do for a living? We both work for Sikorsky Aircraft. I'm a gearbox mechanic, and he's a foreman. But neither one of us make 6 figure salaries. I believe there are atleast two or three board members here who are very wealthy individuals. And I say, more power to them. I mean why shouldn't there be gear heads who have the means to build some real wild rides? But unfortunately, I'm not one of those very wealthy ones myself.

You might think that I'm rolling in money because of this high dollar Chevelle project I'm in the middle of. But I have to admit, that I've extended myself finanacially quite a bit to engage in such a project as this. In fact, I sure hope that when I'm done with my Chevelle, that I don't blow it up, nor smash it up. Because if I do, then the car will likely sit for a long time before I'll ever be able to fix it due to lack of funds.

I've said this before, and I'll say it again...the biggest difference between me and many of you other board members here, is that most of you are married, and probably have to answer to your wives in some shape or form, and would therefore have to get atleast some degree of permission before you can spend the type of money on a hotrod that I've spent on this Chevelle of mine. And since most women aren't into fast cars like us guys are, that's a very slim chance that most of you would ever get the Mrs. to agree to such a monster HP build-up.

However, me on the other hand, I happen to be single, and have nobody to answer to in that way, like most of you do. It has it's advantages, as well as disadvantages too. But PULEEEEEZZZZEEE don't try to say that I have more money than any of you, simply because I'm single. Because that's nothing more than an old WIVES' tale. Look at it this way. I have a mortgage to pay just like most of you married guys do. And yet unlike you guys who's wives work, I only have one paycheck coming in under my roof, whereas most of you have two paychecks coming in ( your's, and your wife's)

anywho, don't know how I got into all of that, but there you go......and to answer Chuck's question, no my friend isn't from Naugy. He's from Trumbull, and BTW, he happens to be married.

[Marauderjack]

OOPS...I didn't pick up on the engine still running??:confused:

Could have blown out a block plug.....possibly the oil pickup is too close to the bottom of the pan.....oil pump failure (not likely but possible)....shaft between the dizzy and the pump...bad gauge....spooks??:rolleyes:

Marauderjack:cool:

[fastblackmerc]

the biggest difference between me and many of you other board members here, is that most of you are married, and probably have to answer to your wives in some shape or form, and would therefore have to get atleast some degree of permission before you can spend the type of money on a hotrod that I've spent on this Chevelle of mine. And since most women aren't into fast cars like us guys are, that's a very slim chance that most of you would ever get the Mrs. to agree to such a monster HP build-up.
All us married guys wear the pants in the family..... we never have to ask before we do any mods.... our better halves let us do anything we want..... Yeah right, if you believe that I have a large bridge in Brooklyn I can sell you - CHEAP!!! :D

[grampaws]

The "wife" lets me do what ever I want to the car the only
factor that stops me is cost!! The old bank acc. can only
take so much abuse?! Damn I need a better paying job!!:rolleyes:
Her thinking is if I'm broke paying for the car the Bars and
young ladies are financially off limits.

[Breadfan]

She doesn't have to agree, just deal. :P :D

OK, I'm about to put my flame-resistant suit on, I know a few who will enjoy that comment! ;)


Sounds like you already got some good ideas on the motor, hopefully you can stop by and see it to get a more clear idea of whats going on...let us know!

[Dragcity]

That's why we all need our own 'secret stash' I don't use my lunch $$ for eats, I save it for my Marauder...

[JACook]

Hmmm, that's an interesting point you have there. It is a high volume /high pressure pump. Perhaos he needs to have oil restrictors installed somewhere to prevent all the oil from being up at the cylinder heads. I know that some aftermarket Chevy blocks have what's refered to as 'main priority oiling" to keep the oil supply at the main bearings when using high volume pumps.

High volume pumps and stock pans do not mix. Anyways, a HV pump is SO small-block-Chevy.

A stock volume oil pump is plenty for any 460 (or pretty much any Ford engine for that matter)
that's tame enough to see street duty. And if it's too wild for the street, see my comment WRT
stock pans above.

All a healthy 460 needs in the oiling department is a windage tray, and a good baffled oil pan.

I think Marauderjack is on the right track. Probably blew the gallery plug at the top rear of the block,
under the intake, or one of the ones behind the cam sprocket. Too much oil pressure will do that
if he's still using the stock pressed-in plugs.

[69mach1]

One other thought is when the distributor was out on the motor install he may have plugged the distributor hole in the block with a paper towel which subsequently fell inside the motor and after a bit of time it was sucked up by the oil pump pickup and the screen plugged up.. whala no engine oil pressure...... ask me how I know :-) Also if the roll pin shears(has happened to me on my 460 w/HV pump) you can redrill and go with a larger roll pin or drill another hole and double pin it (mine has run with that for 5 years now) and when the roll pin shears the motor sputters, backfires and dies. My 2 cents, Jon aka 69mach1

[gpfarrell]

In my experience with 460s, gasoline is the only manditory fluid. You can get by without the other ones for a little while, but keep the gas coming!

[BillyGman]

Here's an update:

my buddy with that Ford 460 engine finally uncovered what the problem was, once he removed the engine and took it apart.....it turns out that he didn't need to swap engines, because all is he had to do was pull the intake manifold to reveal the culprit....

he found a push rod was twisted up like a pretzel, and the lifter had been pushed right out of it's bore and was laying on it's side in the lifter valley. LOL...I guess that's what the "noise" was that he heard before he shut it down. This is why I only use chromemoly push rods in my engines. but my buddy, well.....he likes to cut corners to save $$...and this is just one of those times when it comes back to bite him. Thanks for everyone's input. http://forums.hotrod.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[TooManyFords]

For that to happen, the valve guide for that pushrod must have grabbed the valve stem. He has more wrong than just a bent pushrod!

John

[BillyGman]

For that to happen, the valve guide for that pushrod must have grabbed the valve stem. He has more wrong than just a bent pushrod!

JohnAre you sure about that John? because I had an old Vette that bent two pushrods, and the only other thing that was wrong was a broken valve spring. However, they weren't bent enough to lose contact with the lifter.

[TooManyFords]

I had that happen to my 351M and it caused all sorts of noise bending up a pushrod pretty bad. Valve was stuck in the guide and had to tear it all down.

Isn't armchair wrenching, fun? :D

Let us know, ok?

Cheers!

John

[BillyGman]

Yes, I'll let you know what else he finds......