Oil question

[ctrlraven]

Now I'm not trying to start an oil war or anything lol. A client of mine gave me 3 cases (18 quarts) of Castrol Syntec Blend (part synthetic) SAE 5W-30 oil for free today. My question is would this be safe to use in the MM with using 6 qts or would mixing half & half or less of the Castrol 5w-30?

[magindat]

I wouldn't use the heavier weight in the winter...

In the ricer days I ran 20-50 summer and 10-30 winter.

Prolly be OK in the heat of summer.

[mpearce]

Where's RF when you need him?

He's our resident "oil thread" leader, and "oil advice" guru.

-Mat

[RR|Suki]

I wouldn't use the heavier weight in the winter...

In the ricer days I ran 20-50 summer and 10-30 winter.

Prolly be OK in the heat of summer.

the difference between 5-20 and 5-30 don't seem to be big enough to really matter that much... I personally run 5-30 all year... they are both prety thin oils.

[RF Overlord]

My question is would this be safe to use in the MM with using 6 qts or would mixing half & half or less of the Castrol 5w-30?Mixing half and half with what?

Although I have personal and political reasons for not using Castrol products, Syntec Blend is a good oil and you should be fine using it year-round. I use 5W-30 in the Blackbird and have no cold weather start-up issues at all and I'll bet it gets a bit colder here in New England than in MD.

[Bruce Wayne]

Castrol Syntec 5w30 is what I use in my MM, I live in Canada and haven't had any issues with this oil

[ctrlraven]

The reason why I ask is because the oil says it's Part Synthetic so I didn't know if it was safe to run in the engine since it's always had I guess full synthetic motorcraft/mobil 1 5w-20 in it. The half & half question would be like using like example 3 qts Castrol Syntec Blend 5w-30 and 3 qts Castrol 5w-20 full synthetic oil or 1 part castrol 5 parts motorcraft/mobil and what not. 18 qts of free oil and I'd rather not let it go to waste if I can.

[jgc61sr2002]

The reason why I ask is because the oil says it's Part Synthetic so I didn't know if it was safe to run in the engine since it's always had I guess full synthetic motorcraft/mobil 1 5w-20 in it. The half & half question would be like using like example 3 qts Castrol Syntec Blend 5w-30 and 3 qts Castrol 5w-20 full synthetic oil or 1 part castrol 5 parts motorcraft/mobil and what not. 18 qts of free oil and I'd rather not let it go to waste if I can.

The Motorcraft oil is synthetic blend.

[RF Overlord]

I didn't know if it was safe to run in the engine since it's always had I guess full synthetic motorcraft/mobil 1 5w-20 in it.It's perfectly safe to switch between full synth and synth blend or even conventional. It is preferred to have all the oil in the crankcase be of the same type, so I would use all 6 qts of the Syntec Blend rather than mixing it with something else. If you must mix, it's better to use oils from the same company (all-Castrol or all-Mobil)...due to the chance of additive clash. Mixing two oils of differing base stocks and additive packages can sometimes result in an oil that is less than the sum of its parts.

[ctrlraven]

Great, thanks RF. Woohoo I just got 3 oil changes for free minus 3 filters lol.

[RF Overlord]

Motorcraft FL-820S filters are $3.28/ea at Wally World. Knock yourself out... ;)

[GreekGod]

I don't understand why so many on this forum go against Ford's advice, which is highlighted in our owner's manuals (I quoteth):

"SAE 5W-20 oil provides optimum fuel economy and durability performance meeting all requirements for your vehicle's engine"

Not 5W30, not 20W50, etc.

I understand there are "experts" here that know better than Ford does but I say all the rest should follow Ford's recommendation and avoid the advice of living-in-the-past Baby Boomers.

γρεεκΓοδ

[RF Overlord]

I have never proclaimed myself as an oil "expert", although I have done a lot of research on the subject, nor have I ever claimed to "know better" than Ford. I have always tried to stick with modern facts, not old-school baby-boomer myths. I offer the best advice I can, and I will gladly retract and/or correct any mis-information I may inadvertently propagate.

As far as adhering to Ford's recommendation, and make no mistake it IS only a recommendation, not a requirement, my faith in Ford's concern for the longevity of my vehicle is obviously not as strong as yours. There are many references out there to the fact the 5W-20 was implemented merely to satisfy CAFE requirements. This does not make 5W-20 a bad oil or a bad idea. Quite the opposite...Motorcraft 5W-20 has turned out to be a superb oil and does very well in the Ford modular motors. This does NOT, however, mean that 5W-20 is the BEST possible viscosity under ALL situations. Case in point: the brand new 80 kW emergency generator at one of my hub sites has a Ford SOHC 5.4 engine, just like the one in my buddy's F-250, and Ford Power Products specs 15W-40 for it. Year-round. Do you think Ford completely re-clearanced that motor just for the limited industrial market? The real reason is that a standby set is required to come up to speed and accept a full load in mere seconds, and possibly run that way for hours, or even days, without self-destructing, and 15W-40 is simply more suitable for THAT application. Please understand that I am NOT advocating using 15W-40 in a passenger car, under any circumstance... ;)

Ford has to deal with millions of customers with varying degrees of technical sophistication, and a "one-size-fits-all" approach is simply easier for Ford to deal with. Plus, most people actually prefer being told "just do this", freeing them from having to think or decide what might actually be best for THEM.

Sorry for being long-winded but I had to explain why I believe that taking a blind-faith approach to what a car manufacturer recommends is not ALWAYS the best advice under all conditions.

[RR|Suki]

I don't understand why so many on this forum go against Ford's advice, which is highlighted in our owner's manuals (I quoteth):

"SAE 5W-20 oil provides optimum fuel economy and durability performance meeting all requirements for your vehicle's engine"

Not 5W30, not 20W50, etc.

I understand there are "experts" here that know better than Ford does but I say all the rest should follow Ford's recommendation and avoid the advice of living-in-the-past Baby Boomers.

γρεεκΓοδ

You mean the same company that says ticking heads are ok, and a drive shaft that is not well balanced is fine, paper thin control arms are cool, wiring harnesses should be run so they rub, black paint should be put on in one coat... need I continue? I think I'll listen to my engine builder ;)

[GreekGod]

I have never proclaimed myself as an oil "expert", although I have done a lot of research on the subject, nor have I ever claimed to "know better" than Ford. I have always tried to stick with modern facts, not old-school baby-boomer myths. I offer the best advice I can, and I will gladly retract and/or correct any mis-information I may inadvertently propagate.

As far as adhering to Ford's recommendation, and make no mistake it IS only a recommendation, not a requirement, my faith in Ford's concern for the longevity of my vehicle is obviously not as strong as yours. There are many references out there to the fact the 5W-20 was implemented merely to satisfy CAFE requirements. This does not make 5W-20 a bad oil or a bad idea. Quite the opposite...Motorcraft 5W-20 has turned out to be a superb oil and does very well in the Ford modular motors. This does NOT, however, mean that 5W-20 is the BEST possible viscosity under ALL situations. Case in point: the brand new 80 kW emergency generator at one of my hub sites has a Ford SOHC 5.4 engine, just like the one in my buddy's F-250, and Ford Power Products specs 15W-40 for it. Year-round. Do you think Ford completely re-clearanced that motor just for the limited industrial market? The real reason is that a standby set is required to come up to speed and accept a full load in mere seconds, and possibly run that way for hours, or even days, without self-destructing, and 15W-40 is simply more suitable for THAT application. Please understand that I am NOT advocating using 15W-40 in a passenger car, under any circumstance... ;)

Ford has to deal with millions of customers with varying degrees of technical sophistication, and a "one-size-fits-all" approach is simply easier for Ford to deal with. Plus, most people actually prefer being told "just do this", freeing them from having to think or decide what might actually be best for THEM.

Sorry for being long-winded but I had to explain why I believe that taking a blind-faith approach to what a car manufacturer recommends is not ALWAYS the best advice under all conditions.

This is a good response to my "baited" proclamation! I respect your opinions, and concise writing.

[GreekGod]

You mean the same company that says ticking heads are ok, and a drive shaft that is not well balanced is fine, paper thin control arms are cool, wiring harnesses should be run so they rub, black paint should be put on in one coat... need I continue? I think I'll listen to my engine builder ;)

If your engine builder has changed your engine, you should listen to him.

Ford knows best, they are taxi- tested tough!

ΓρεεκΓοδ

[sweetair]

the difference between 5-20 and 5-30 don't seem to be big enough to really matter that much... I personally run 5-30 all year... they are both prety thin oils.I am right there with you.

[sweetair]

I don't understand why so many on this forum go against Ford's advice, which is highlighted in our owner's manuals (I quoteth):

"SAE 5W-20 oil provides optimum fuel economy and durability performance meeting all requirements for your vehicle's engine"

Not 5W30, not 20W50, etc.

I understand there are "experts" here that know better than Ford does but I say all the rest should follow Ford's recommendation and avoid the advice of living-in-the-past Baby Boomers.

γρεεκΓοδHere's my story. I use Mobil 1 syn oil 5-30. I switched to if from the 5-20 Motorcraft after I put my supercharger on. With an extra 150 HP I wanted a slightly thicker/viscous oil. The gain in lubrication is important to me. I believe the 5-20is a good oil with fuel economy as it's main atribute. That's it. Perhaps if FORD made a supercharged Marauder they would recommed the 5-30. Just my .02. Flame suit on, fire away.

[RR|Suki]

If your engine builder has changed your engine, you should listen to him.

Ford knows best, they are taxi- tested tough!

ΓρεεκΓοδ
same engine just better parts, the point is ford is no authority on even their own products. ;)

[ctrlraven]

Ok just changed my oil today and used the Castrol Syntec Blend (part synthetic) SAE 5W-30. Now I have another question and I don't know why I didnt ask this before lol.

While using the Motorcraft 5W-20 my L/M dealer told me to the oil change every 5K miles, now should I follow suit (every 5K miles) with the Castrol Syntec Blend oil that I am using or drop down to 4K miles or 3K miles per change while using this stuff?

[ctrlraven]

Anyone know?

[RR|Suki]

Anyone know?

I don't use a blend, I use fully synth, and I change every 3K... I doubt 5K would do harm, however if you drive your car hard, being nice to her an giving her new oil every 3K isn't a bad idea either

[fastblackmerc]

Ok just changed my oil today and used the Castrol Syntec Blend (part synthetic) SAE 5W-30. Now I have another question and I don't know why I didnt ask this before lol.

While using the Motorcraft 5W-20 my L/M dealer told me to the oil change every 5K miles, now should I follow suit (every 5K miles) with the Castrol Syntec Blend oil that I am using or drop down to 4K miles or 3K miles per change while using this stuff?

Personally, I change oil & filter every 5k using Mobile1 5w20. I just got my first oil analysis back from Blackstone (@ 30,000 miles) and they recommended that I go to a 6k oil change. Eventhough the numbers on the report are below (sometimes way below) the universal averages I will continue to change oil & filters @ 5k intervals.

Just my $0.02....

[ctrlraven]

Thanks guys, I'll just keep an eye on the oil when I get to 3K and if it looks/smells like it needs to be changed I'll do it then. I usually do 5K miles in 3 months give or take a few days.

One thing I have noticed though since I took my driver's side valve cover breather filter off and hooked the hose up to my JLT intake that I actually had to add about 1/2 qt of oil. Before when I had the valve cover breather filter on my oil level stayed at the same level from oil change to the next one. I guess it's just sucking a lot more in now especially since I have the JLT on it. Anyone else notice an oil level drop?

[fastblackmerc]

None here. I haven't had to add any oil between changes since day one and I check the oil at every fillup.

[ctrlraven]

Weird, oh well. I know it's being sucked back into the intake cause I can see the stain of the oil inside the intake tube. I'll just pick up 2 oil separators and hook them up and go from there.

[merc]

Here's my story. I use Mobil 1 syn oil 5-30. I switched to if from the 5-20 Motorcraft after I put my supercharger on. With an extra 150 HP I wanted a slightly thicker/viscous oil. The gain in lubrication is important to me. I believe the 5-20is a good oil with fuel economy as it's main atribute. That's it. Perhaps if FORD made a supercharged Marauder they would recommed the 5-30. Just my .02. Flame suit on, fire away.

Thicker is Better Myth

The reason that oil viscosities have gotten thinner is because bearing clearances have become smaller. Using thicker oils will interfere with oil flow and the oil pressure will increase. In a worn engine it may be okay to increase the viscosity of the oil because the bearing clearances have become larger.

[RF Overlord]

Castrol Syntec Blend can EASILY go 5,000 miles, but be sure to use a good filter, such as WIX/NAPA Gold (same filter, different paint on the can), or Motorcraft.

[MM_BKK]

I just changed my oil. I put in Mobil One 0W-40 full synthetic. This oil flows like 0 weight at 32*F and has load carrying capabilities of 40 weight. IMO, I think the 5W-20 is way too thin. May be I might use it if the car was new and with less than 10,000 miles, but now at 55,xxx miles I would rather not.
I mean, would the car manufacturer or the dealer rather see our cars go for 250,000+ miles or at about 100,000 then self-destruct. By that time, it's usually out of warranty. (How convenient!) :)

[RF Overlord]

MM BKK, I'd be wary of using M1 0W-40 in your area. That oil has a 40° cSt of 80, where most 5W-30s are between 58 and 64, and 5W-20s are 46-50. This means it's a fair amount thicker at cold temps and you could have valve-train issues when winter really sets in. If you plan on keeping that oil in the motor, I'd do a UOA on it before deciding if it's the viscosity you want to use going forward.

[Bill Lalk]

Hey RF, I have been a mechanic most my life, but I STILL don't understand the multi-viscosity deal. How can 5w30 protect any better than 5w when warm? And how can 5w30 be right for a 5w application when cold?:dunno:

[SergntMac]

IMHO, engine lubrication systems on our 4.6L modular engine are a part of the overall cooling system. Controlling them affects emission and performance issues, including harmful detonation. Not that it matters much here, I did some oil weight studies of my own back over the summer of 2005, specifically on this topic.

I tried oil weights from 0W20 through 10W40, all synthetic blends. From 1.49 a quart to 5.99 a quart. I did not test any full synthetics, such as Mobil 1.

It was a hot summer for Chicago, and this was ideal for testing what I wanted to know, heat range increase and engine temp disbursement.

MotorCraft and Quaker state 5W20 did the best in my personal testing, consisting of a drain, new filter, refill and drive for 500 miles between a change in samples. I monitored my engine temps in a variety of conditions, from high speed cruising to dead stop in traffic, and my engine temps stayed in the 180-185 range with the OEM recommended weight ( and a 180 degree stat).

As oil weights increased, engine cooling factors declined. Thicker, heavier weight cause an increase in "normal" engine temps in scale with the weight used. The worst case was the 10W40, which caused "normal" temps to climb to 210 on the highway, and 230 in stopped traffic, and this added heat resulted in detonation, as well as a drop in MPG. Not pleasing to say the least.

Therefore, I suggest that using a 5W30 in cooler wintr months should be acceptable, but I would not use it in warmer temps, or, tropical climates. The oil passages on our engines are smaller that you would expect, and the thicker oils do not circulate absorbed heat away from the engine as quickle as thinner lighter weight do.

I beleve too, the comment ^ there about "closer tolerances", because these closer tolerances generate more heat than more open tolerances. Thicker oil just do not lubricate (or cool) as well.

Good luck in your adventure, carry on gents.

[RF Overlord]

Bill, a multi-vis oil is one where the base oil is the lower number: i.e. the 5 in 5W-xx. These oils contain additives called Viscosity Index Improvers which are long-chain polymers that are "coiled-up" (like a Slinky) when cold, but un-coil when warm. This allows the oil to behave like a 5-weight when cold, but behave like a 20- or 30-weight when hot. In other words, the oil "acts" the way a single viscosity oil would at the same temperature.

The problem with this is that if the oil is left in service too long, the VII polymers get broken into smaller pieces (which is called "shear") so a 5W-30 becomes the functional equivalent of a 5W-20. This issue can be avoided by either doing enough UOAs that you learn how long the oil can stay in service based on your driving conditions, or by using a synthetic oil (true synthetic oils contain little or no VIIs, so they don't deteriorate as quickly).

[Bill Lalk]

Thanks RF.