Tranny Mods

[SSMOKEM]

The Marauder does NOT need any more low end torque. What it does need is a drivetrain matched to the motor, more specifically, a 3000+ 9.5" stall converter, like the Vigilante, and 4.10 gears.

My Impala used to have TONS of down low torque when it was stock. Since I ported the heads and added a long duration cam, I have lost a lot of power below 3000rpm. The fix was easy, a 3800 stall and upgrade the stock 3.08s to 3.73s. My car now probably has a similar HP curve as the DOHC in the Marauder.

So now, even though I have a LOT less torque below 3000 than a stock Impala, I have spun the tires through all of first and halfway into 2nd, and this is on my daily driven BFG 275/40-17 drag radials.

[JET]

My Bad. Nice web site

[Logan]

SSMOKEM... Amen brother...

[smith5365]

ssmokem -- you've hit the nail on the head. The trany limitations are why I'm sitting on my hands and holding off on buying the current version of the Marauder. I've been waiting to see what you all had to say about improving the stock unit. I appreciate Art Carr's inputs, but I'd like Dennis to take the lead in working through the modes. He's got the key to what the engine can be brought up to, and what can be done to optimise the match. Logan, should we start a tranny thread?

And I'm not without some understanding of what your all going through. Got tired of waiting for Mercury to bring out a new Marauder in 1989 after waiting 20 years, so starting upgrading my 89 Grand Marquis after 4 years and 150,000 miles. My close friend is head line mechanic at my local Mercury dealer. It received suspension and drive train upgrades. My custom exhaust isn't as good as Logan's, but it works o.k. for now. MAIN POINT: the tranny has had converter modes, but it still is the limiting factor. If I want IT to do better, I'll have to modify the cockpit to accept a 5-speed manual -- OUCH$$$$$.

Sure would like to see Mercury work out a 5-speed AOD for us to work with 4.11's in the rear.

Logan/Dennis: I'm 40 minutes away from Mercury headquarters in Irvine, CA. Anybody there you'd like me to have a stimulating conversation with?

Bill Smith '89 Mercury Maruader Clone
'69 X-100 long, long ago
'66 Shelby GT-350 S/N 135 and I can't afford to buy it back

[tetsu]

I'll just make a few comments:

1. If I take my Marauder anywhere into public I get alot of compliments and questions. (Wow I love what you did with your car! What kind of car is that? Excuse me, is that a Grand Marquis?)

2. Low end grunt. This car is set-up for top-end performance. I'd kind of hate to sacrifice my sweet 60-90mph acceleration (nearly instantaneous) to slightly bump my offline.

3. After getting a taste of fun, I recognize that my car is too big, heavy and luxurious to pull a 10 second 1/4. So, my son and my step dad and I have decided to build a car for drag racing. Right now, about the only decision that we've finalized is that we're going Chevy! I want a car that can start out in the 10s. It'll be too $$$ to go with Ford.

Johnny

[SSMOKEM]

After getting a taste of fun, I recognize that my car is too big, heavy and luxurious to pull a 10 second 1/4
Right now, the quickest car in the Impala club has run a 10.19 @ 135mph at the shootout last November. This is a 100% street car with the full interior, all power accessories hooked up and working, and bone stock body. Still has the stock LT1 block, bored and stroked, a lot of juice and all the boltons.

We expect to see some 9s in the Lincoln/Impala shootout this November. :D


I'd kind of hate to sacrifice my sweet 60-90mph acceleration (nearly instantaneous) to slightly bump my offline
No need to sacrifice anything. With gears and converter, you could gain 8 tenths in the 1/4, which would really wake up your 60-90 times.

By the way, 60 to 90, my car gains 9mph per second......:)

[03 Merc]

I have never has a new car before that got so many comments either.. I have had people pull up beside me in stopped traffic and ask what it is...where can I get one...how much?? I have been chased down at car shows by people wanting to see it...When I had my 01 Cobra vert it was just another Mustang to the vast majority....

As far as reviews I just consider the source and wonder why anyone cares what some podunk journalist whines about in the local rag... If I believed all the reviews locally I would only buy a import as they are always better!! In the case of the Marauder I doubt their impact is significant anyway as the people who want this car won't care about the whining anyway....they will check it out for themselves...

[Logan]

A 2500-3000rpm locking stall convertor is the ticket for this beast, and that's what Dennis and I are talking about.

As for being too heavy, don't tell a Lightning guy that! :) My 4800lb Lightning was in the 12's when I sold it with only a couple mods, and I know a number of them down in the low 11's high, high 10's...

This thing is only 4200lbs... Feels like a feather. :)

[MAD-3R]

M-7902-F is the part number from www.fordracing.com for the 3000rpm stall converter.
Primary for Strip racing

M-7902-E is the part number from www.fordracing.com for the 2600rpm stall converter.
For both street and strip

[Logan]

Those are for the AOD... The AOD-E/4R70 convertors are different aren't they?

[cyclone03]

MAD-3R
I think those are both non locking converters.
Len-tech,Art Carr, and Hughes (plus others I'm sure)make locking converters for the AODE/4w70e.
The first question they all have is "what are the cam specs?" then,"vehicle wieght?"
The guy I talk with at FFW Saturday said they could make a "streetable" converter that locks up with up to about 3800 rpm stall.Anything higher you loose lock up.

I came across a PC program that would calculate 1/4et with diferent modes,including converter stall speeds but I have know idea where now.:(

[MAD-3R]

Ok,
You lost me.
AODE

AOD

I can strip a computer to it's electrons, but I'm still learning cars.
:)

[cyclone03]

E=Electronic.
The trans is controled,shift points ect,buy the computer.

[LincMercLover]

Hey everyone! New to the site (but I've been reading the forums for awhile). I've got two Lincolns (1979 and 1966) and am REALLY wanting a Marauder right now... Hopefully I can get enoph money together here soon to get one. My Lincoln's are great, but I want something I can have a lil fun with and not worrie about breaking. Plus, a warrantied car would be nice for awhile too.

Anyway, as for the tranny issue. Hows a B&M Holeshot 3000 sound? Gives anywhere from 2800-3200 stall, lockup, all for a 93-99 AODE. Part number 50403. :D

IF (big IF) I did get one, here's what I'd love to do:

4.10's
High stall
Reinheart chip
Stat
Plugs
March Underdrive
K&N FIPK
Battery in the back
High flow cats (or, umm... round here, maybe no cats)
Dunno about the X-pipe, don't really see the advantage vs. a true dual
Truck insulation striped out
High lift cams

But... that's all wishful thinking right now...:(

[Fourth Horseman]

"Dunno about the X-pipe, don't really see the advantage vs. a true dual"

Isn't it mostly for the tone of the exhaust? So you don't end up sounding like a pick-up truck. :)

[Logan]

This has been discussed already, but essentially a X-pipe is a more efficient design than an H-pipe and you get an increased scavenging effect. It's good for a few ponies and ft/lbs by itself.

[LincMercLover]

Umm... I wanted to know the diff between a X-Pipe and a TRUE dual, meaning each bank has it's own tubing. The Marauder has this from what I understand, right?

[Black Terror]

Does larger pipe and X-Pipe lower torque at low rpm's? I don't have 4.10 rear axle ratio but would like the scavenging effect at higher rpm's.
Where can you get the X-pipe alone? My brother-in-law has custom muffler shop and can fabricate larger stainless pipes from cat to muffler for me. He took look at Logan's pictures and said he could duplicate it, he just doesn't have access to X-pipe.

[Logan]

Go to Magnaflow.com

If your brother in law is a muffler shop, he can sign himself up to be a distributor for magnaflow.

[SSee SSpot Run]

logan, the last performance comparison between H and X pipes showed each had an advantage at different rpm.s so depending on your power band an H might be the way to go. both the H and X gave a considerable (for the $$) h.p. increase over the old school true duals. btw..who is the 4th horseman..arn, tully, lex, barry? doesn't matter seen'em all front row section "d" greensboro coliseum whoooo! SSee Ya, rus

[LincMercLover]

Ummm... seeing as how the MM is getting the Cobra motor and the whole design of the platform is lacking is the LOWER power band, wouldn't we need to pay a little more attention as to what we're doing to that number. You may wanna read this article:

http://www.mustangexhaust.com/tech/HvsX/HvsX.htm

I find it interesting and pretty relevent to the situation with the MM. The car comes with a tuned exhaust, so IMHO, I'd be spending the money on a High Stall Locking Torque Convert before doing anything to the exhaust.

[Logan]

Exhaust systems are as much about sound and attitude as they are about performance...

[cyclone03]

I wish I had the resources ($$) to do my own testing.
I'd like to test with the pipe Dia staying the same just adding the "X".
The real trick is placing the cross over in the right place. again $$ you could test and get it right.

[VaderSS]

You might be suprised by a simple balance pipe welded into the stock system. The improvement to midrange was particularly impressive in my Impala.

[Logan]

The easiest way to know where to put the X pipe is to spray paint your pipes. Where it starts to bubble first is where you weld in the pipe.

[cyclone03]

I know about the paint trick,but with the cats in place I think that old test would just tell you how well the paint holds up to heat.

[Dennis Reinhart]

I can modify the stock valve body spacer plate and the car will shift totaly different as far as torque converters go I can have any size built for this car, I would recomend 2800 stall I can adjust the chip to lock the converter up after the 1/2 shift making the car drive like a stock converter, this will make the car launch like you wont believe, so if I can help I am here.

[mensrea]

Dennis,
ANy idea on how much this modified converter/trans would cost, and what we could expect in terms of drivability and ETs?

[Dennis Reinhart]

the prices vary depending on size and stall but 500.00 is vey close

[smith5365]

Dennis: That does it! You've filled in the missing part of the power train upgrades. I'm on vacation in Illinois but will be returning to SoCal the last week of this month. Will talk with bank about financing and start looking for a car. Will call when I've got arrangements made to ask if you have contact in SoCal that you can recommend to do the upgrades. If not, we'll work something out.

Logan: This site and the people who contribute really make things work!!

Bill Smith

[MAD-3R]

Ohhh and the excitment builds.. :)

Money, Warrenty, Wife
Three reasons I have no mods. And in that order. :D

[cyclone03]

Mine trouble is..........
Wife ,warrenty,money.

Money is last becauase a set of gears,torque conveter and chip will be less than $1500! (I can handle the labor).

[Geo]

Originally posted by cyclone03
I know about the paint trick,but with the cats in place I think that old test would just tell you how well the paint holds up to heat.


I have a buddy that has a video camera that can record with some sort of thermal imaging running at the same time. As soon as I heard that feature, the first thing that immediately came to mind was if I could film/monitor a hot-running dual exhaust system and pictograph the hot-spot and therefore reference where to add an H-pipe.


In the case of the Marauder, does it not come with an H-pipe already. I say a H-pipe and tuned resonators with freer-flow mufflers would be good (wait 'till Borla comes out with a kit, if it's like the Impala's kit which incorporates an H-pipe with tuned resonators, this is all you would likely need). For an X-pipe, I think for it to be worth it, the X has to be much larger in diameter than what I have seen on the Marauders/Mustangs (does anyone remember Dr. Gas)?

Geo

[Geo]

by diameter I mean the diameter of the width and length of the "X". In other words the X to be a BIG X not a tiny one. Not to be confused with the diameter of the tubing.

GEO

[Dennis Reinhart]

Ok I can have a 10" high quality stall built and I recomend 3000/3500 stall I run a 3000 in my mark 8. I can program the chip to lock the converter up after the transmission makes its 1/2 up shift, this will make the car drive like it has a stock converter.

[cyclone03]

Geo,
Yes I remember Dr.Gas.I think they patened the "true" X pipe first.
They may have sold the rights to others but I don't know.
I'm with you on the size of the X I think for the tuning to work it's much more than it looks good right..............there!
I also remember the inlet and outlet length was also important.

[Dennis Reinhart]

I sell a good 2 1/2" inlet and outlet X pipe