SCCA Auto-X

[Eric91Z]

Well, since I will soon be single again, once I land on my feet I want to take of running. Being single this time around (as opposed to before being married), I actually have a good job with a good future with the company I am with. I will have a daughter to raise, too. Other than planning long term for my future (I do want to retire some day), my baby's future (saving for college and a wedding), I want to finally start doing some SCCA Solo II or similiar auto-x.

I have always thought myself pretty decent behind the wheel of a car and understand what a car is doing. I like drag racing, but only to a point and only now and then. I plan on keeping the Marauder, of course, and making it faster, picking up a beater/daily driver (ex-cop car or something similiar), but I eventually want to pick up something to start doing some Auto-X in. Plus, I want my daughter to be raised around that and have that opportunity at a younger age.

Anyway, does anyone else do this? If so, what car do you run? How about some input on various cars to use for this (and drive on the street now and then). I would be doing some local Auto-X with it and maybe a little road racing at MAM near Omaha, NE.

Here are a couple of cars I have thought about:

1) Fox body Mustang
2) Porsche 944 or 944 Turbo (hard to beat the handling, braking, and all around performance)
3) 3rd Gen F-Body
4) Something smaller: Honda Civic, Ford Focus (SVT?), etc


Those cars have a strong after market support, good handling and braking, and can be picked up relatively cheaply. I would drive the car on the street now and then, but look at stuff for racing: 4 or 5 point harness, roll bar, partial gut of interior, and other weight saving measures. I kind of think one of the 2 V8 cars or the Porsche would be a fun choice as they would be OK on the Auto-X and have more power for the road racing.

What do you think? Input on the cars? Input on the racing itself, especially from those that have or do currently do it?

[Eric91Z]

A couple of other ideas:

1) Mid-model C4 Corvette: L98 car with the 6-speed
2) Mazda Miata

[DEFYANT]

Why not the Marauder?

[Eric91Z]

Why not the Marauder?

Road racing, maybe, but not Auto-X. I think the car is too big to really enjoy on the Auto-X. Plus, I have other setup plans for it.

[KAILUAZ]

Look into 90's Volks GTI's, they are cheap, lots of after market, and fun to drive. And depending which class you end up in, competitive.
If not a Miata is a good choice, but everyone has one.

[Hotrauder]

The Subaru Impreza WRX :eek: is a great choice for auto X. The 944T is a fabulous road track platform. Almost anything is fun while you are at the race against yourself stage. Dennis

[DarthMarauder]

A couple of other ideas:

1) Mid-model C4 Corvette: L98 car with the 6-speed
2) Mazda Miata

Ditto the Miata not much money for a used one very simple to work on so you'd have more to hop up the suspension and do some google searches you'll find get together with Miata guys that rent out tracks just to get into it without having to go all out compete right off the bat. I had a 99 miata before the MM and that thing cornered like there was no tomorrow and mine was stock.

[GAMike]

I guess you have to ask yourself how much $$ you want to invest in the hobby. 944's I agree are awsome to drive from a handling perspective, and can be tweaked for good power, but are expensive to work on and hop up.

If you are on a budget and are going to be doin alot of autocross vs. road racing then the Miata would be a great choice.

If road racing is primary, a nice "built" 90-93 LX5.0 is hard to beat for pure fun and a reasonable investment (especially in brakes lol:D ). Just my .02

Good luck and let us know what you decide!

[Eric91Z]

Thanks for all the input so far. I agree the Porsche would be expesive from a maintenance, parts stand point. I am guessing that I will be doing more short track/Auto-X than road race.

Then again, I could always pick up a Miata with a bad motor and drop a 5.0 in there. I remember when there were a number of those in the magazines.

Yes, budget will be an issue. Looking for reasonable entry, maintenance, and modification cost. I am thinking the Miata could be a good one. I also remember watching some of those '90's Golf and GTi's running Auto-X years ago. Kind of watching them on 3 wheels only on some of the corners.

[Bradley G]

I suggest Taurus SHO.
You are a big guy, right Eric?
Don't put your self into anything, too small!
Buy the Buy, I do have one for sale. '92 MTX 144K
Good luck on the Search!

[LILALLEYKATT]

I would get a litely wrecked Miata. Go to CO-PART or IAA Insurance Auto Auctions websites as they have hundreds of auctions every week. You have to be a dealer and I can hook you up with a buyer whom is registered. Yep I would get a salvage tittle Miata so fast it would make your head spin. Plus they are uber easy to rebuild. There was one at the CO-PART in Detroit with a Jackson Racing blower hit on the Right 3/4 FT and it sold for $1600 and it was a nice car with decent miles had a hardtop too........

[HotrodMerc]

I guess you have to ask yourself how much $$ you want to invest in the hobby. 944's I agree are awsome to drive from a handling perspective, and can be tweaked for good power, but are expensive to work on and hop up.

If you are on a budget and are going to be doin alot of autocross vs. road racing then the Miata would be a great choice.

If road racing is primary, a nice "built" 90-93 LX5.0 is hard to beat for pure fun and a reasonable investment (especailly in brakes lol:D ). Just my .02

Good luck and let us know what you decide!

Eric, I would agree with GAMike about deciding how much you want to spend on the hobby, initially and for the first year or two, and i would add that if you do want a dual purpose, street/auto-x car, decide whether you want the V8 sound, feel (torque), mileage (which can still be easily 21-23mpg highway even with a 400+rwhp 5.0), what size and type of car you want to drive on the street especially if occasionally it may serve duty as daily transportation.
If you think you might get into it seriously, best advice i have is go ahead and join the SCCA, whereby you will get their magazine, with the info. on auto-x events, and see what kind of cars are winning in which classes. Along with that go to some events if you can. You probably could get some rides in different cars. Of course, it does depend somewhat on the driver and how the car is set up, if not stock. When i started doing Solo II (auto-x) in early 90's in my '90 5.0 there was one experienced guy where i joined the SCCA that was running his daily driver '89 LX. He clued me in that about that time a lot of people that went to national events were switching from Mustangs to Camaros because of the notion that the Camaros did better because of their wider track. He also pointed out there was still a couple of guys doing very well in their Fox body Mustangs in the prepared classes, because they had them very well prepared and were good drivers.
For the money, short and long term, fun for the buck autocrossing, your best bet probably is the Miata. If you really want to be competitive, I wouldn't go with a heavier car unless it was a Corvette.
Another car that, to my knowledge, actually might be a good choice, believe it or not, is a 944 Turbo, providing you find one that is mechanically sound to begin with. For what it's worth, i rode in a used one, about '94 or '95, that had just been aquired by a guy that is in the Porche service business, and who yrs earlier had raced Mustangs and Camaros. He told me that about the only thing that usually needed replacing on the 944T's were the water pumps and clutches. I don't think the guy was blowing smoke at me, but neither do i know that for a fact. The 944's do seem to be very solid cars though, and may not actually be all that expensive to maintain if you start with a good one. Plus, because they are lighter and are built to handle and brake from the factory, even in stock form they will out perform a stock or mildly warmed up, heavier and nose heavy 5.0 on a tight course.
Also think about the tire cost and wear factor of each car. Good luck with it. :banana2:

[Eric91Z]

Again, thanks for the input so far. It is greatly appreciated. Budget will be the limiting factor to start with and for the first couple of years. So to start with, I am looking for low initial investment and first year or 2 costs.

Yes, I am a little larger: 6', 245lbs, and wear a size 50 jacket. I do plan on getting back in shape once the house is sold and I move as I will have more free time and cheap membership costs for a local club my mom works at. So that will finally change.

[BK_GrandMarquis]

My friend with a bimmer just bought a late 1990s Miata for play. The Miata is a bit more competitive and parts are very cheap. He bought brand new set of 15" wheels for $100 a piece. They only weight 13 lbs. each. If you want to spend $300 a piece, you can get 8 lbs. wheels.

I went with a 1990 Mustang LX Hatchback. I believe it's the cheap domestic alternative to the Miata. There are tons of cheap upgrade parts for this car too.

I saw this over at BradBarnett.net.

http://www.steeda.com/news/steeda_news/10-24-06_steeda_dominates_scca_runof fs.php

[Ezbok58a]

Agree with BK, Miata, or if you need some more room, the Fox bodied stang.

Then again you could try a SHO Taurus, don't think many people autox or Road race them but it would be a good change for them. No idea on how routine stuff would go though.

Miata or Fox body, (Maybe a Fairmount?)

[Eric91Z]

Agree with BK, Miata, or if you need some more room, the Fox bodied stang.

Then again you could try a SHO Taurus, don't think many people autox or Road race them but it would be a good change for them. No idea on how routine stuff would go though.

Miata or Fox body, (Maybe a Fairmount?)

I think both would be good choices. I will need to find some time and go drive a Miata sometime to see if I fit at all or could live with it. Would be a fun little point and shoot car. And I have never had a convertible. Then again, a nice Fox-body LX (not sure if I would want a hatch or notch back) with the 5.0 and 5-speed could be fun and I bet I could get the car itself around or under 3000 lbs with little work.

Then again, I am sure the Miata comes in well below that weight to start with.

Another thing I could think about is that some day I want to build a Factory 5 Racing car with my daughter. Either the '65 Roadstre Mark III or the Type 65 Coupe. If I got a Fox Body Mustang and spent a few years developing that and having fun racing it, I could then transfer all of the drivetrain and running gear to the kit car when the time comes. That would make some sense from a long term goal...

I really like the coupe:

http://www.factoryfive.com/table/ffrkits/coupe/coupekit.html

[shakes_26]

Eric,

The coupe is gorgeous, but gettign in and out is like trying to walk through a porthole. I don't like the egress factor in case of crash (especially if raced). The good news FF is looking at a Challenge series for the coupe..we'll see. Also look at the SuperPerformance, their coupe I dare say is better looking.

As for Roadster, MKIII or the Spec Racer, well the latter is better track weapon (and can be built non Challenge series legal), or can be finished with a street kit. The MKIII roadster is very good track car as well, but not nearly enough protection IMO. Just a thought. Expect to spend 25-30K on a self built Roadster/Racer and about $35k+ on the Coupe.

Look 5.0 stuff is relatively cheap. I'd find a used Fox body, clean/straight. DOn't worry about the engine/power mods. Spend your time and $$ on handling and brakes (what the car really needs). You can find a car for less than $3K, but you'll spend about $5K to get it to brake and handle competitievely. Count a $1K on safety gear when all is said and done (counting seat/harness/helmet in there).

Nasa and SCCa both have great Auto x programs, which are by far the cheapest way in the door. Stock categories are again the cheapest, some fresh rubber/pads and a helmet and your off.

I like the mid/early 90's GTI route, cheap light, good power, and relatively cheap to run. Focus is a good choice as well, problem is if you modify it they'll up class you and it will be tougher competitors.... decisions decisions. Check out the Forums for Nasa (www.nasaproracing.com) in your area and see what people are running, etc. Might find that cheap spec miata isn't soo cheap after all, unless you want to run dead last every time.......

By all means pursue the FF dream, that will be the best experience you could imagine.

[Eric91Z]

Eric,

The coupe is gorgeous, but gettign in and out is like trying to walk through a porthole. I don't like the egress factor in case of crash (especially if raced). The good news FF is looking at a Challenge series for the coupe..we'll see. Also look at the SuperPerformance, their coupe I dare say is better looking.

As for Roadster, MKIII or the Spec Racer, well the latter is better track weapon (and can be built non Challenge series legal), or can be finished with a street kit. The MKIII roadster is very good track car as well, but not nearly enough protection IMO. Just a thought. Expect to spend 25-30K on a self built Roadster/Racer and about $35k+ on the Coupe.

Look 5.0 stuff is relatively cheap. I'd find a used Fox body, clean/straight. DOn't worry about the engine/power mods. Spend your time and $$ on handling and brakes (what the car really needs). You can find a car for less than $3K, but you'll spend about $5K to get it to brake and handle competitievely. Count a $1K on safety gear when all is said and done (counting seat/harness/helmet in there).

Nasa and SCCa both have great Auto x programs, which are by far the cheapest way in the door. Stock categories are again the cheapest, some fresh rubber/pads and a helmet and your off.

I like the mid/early 90's GTI route, cheap light, good power, and relatively cheap to run. Focus is a good choice as well, problem is if you modify it they'll up class you and it will be tougher competitors.... decisions decisions. Check out the Forums for Nasa (www.nasaproracing.com) in your area and see what people are running, etc. Might find that cheap spec miata isn't soo cheap after all, unless you want to run dead last every time.......

By all means pursue the FF dream, that will be the best experience you could imagine.

Shakes,

Thanks for the input. It is MUCH appreciated. I agree, the Coupe is great looking, but after watching the DVD from FF a number of times, I really can't imagine getting in and out of there on a regular basis.

And I agree that just a factory rebuild of stock 5.0 parts would go a long ways. Then handling upgrades within the rule book. I just never understood Ford's thinking going with 4-lugs and even rear drums on some of those cars. I will definitely need to hook up with the local groups and see what they have going on. The DMVR of the SCCA only has 1 more meeting then their year end banquet. So I might look at hooking up with them after the first of the year.

The VW GTi would be kind of cool, but they are near as prevelant around here as a 5.0 Mustang is. Are you thinking something like this with the VW:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1995-EURO-Gti-VR6-with-mods_W0QQitemZ200042000299QQih Z010QQcategoryZ15292QQrdZ1QQcm dZViewItem

Or this one, but I figure the turbo would definitely change classes:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1992-VW-GTI-with-Stage-4-G60-15lbs-of-BOOST_W0QQitemZ290044811539QQi hZ019QQcategoryZ15292QQrdZ1QQc mdZViewItem


I think one of those could do a good job of doing double duty with some street time and track time.

[jimlam56]

SVT Contour!
You can get a good one for under 5k.
Handles great, and good aftermarket parts available.
I have 2 of them in my family...

[Eric91Z]

SVT Contour!
You can get a good one for under 5k.
Handles great, and good aftermarket parts available.
I have 2 of them in my family...


Another one of those that is next to impossible to find around here. I thought those cars had a tendency for motor problems?

[jimlam56]

Another one of those that is next to impossible to find around here. I thought those cars had a tendency for motor problems?


I haven't had anything major, and both cars are pushing 100k.
The hot setup is to replace the 2.5 svt motor with a 24 valve 3.0 from a Taurus.
I'm going to set up my silver 2000 as a track car late next year.
I plan on keeping it streetable, but stiffen the suspension, roll bar and possibly the motor swap.
Bought both of mine on ebay; there's usually a handful for sale there, like this one...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1998-Ford-Contour-SVT_W0QQitemZ130040667829QQihZ 003QQcategoryZ31832QQssPageNam eZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[KAILUAZ]

The only problem I see with the Mustang is, if you want to be competitive, your gonna have to re-do the suspension and brakes at a minimum. You would probably go with a drop in front suspension with coil-overs and tweak the rear with a panrod bar. Then you have the brakes to deal with. If you do stock rubber, the limit would be 225x16 (or the stock Cobra size) if you had the "star" rims. If you go bigger you pay in points. That means no engine mods, because thats gonna add points also.
All this adds up to bumping you up classes and putting you in with cars like the Honda S2000 and WRX's.
We have a 90 LX that has these mods and he ends up running against the WRX's.
Lets face it, your not gonna beat those guys at the cone game,,, road course where you can use the 5.0's power, maybe, but not on a auto-x course.
You need to look at what class you want to run in and then buy-build your car for that class, if not you might end up in A class coming in last place every time,,, thats no fun.
Good luck!!

PS: this was based on the NASA rules, which are fairly laid back compared to SCCA.

[shakes_26]

what he said, exactly. Thats why an little car is best, already lightweight. Might even consider a lowly Neon.... :D


The only problem I see with the Mustang is, if you want to be competitive, your gonna have to re-do the suspension and brakes at a minimum. You would probably go with a drop in front suspension with coil-overs and tweak the rear with a panrod bar. Then you have the brakes to deal with. If you do stock rubber, the limit would be 225x16 (or the stock Cobra size) if you had the "star" rims. If you go bigger you pay in points. That means no engine mods, because thats gonna add points also.
All this adds up to bumping you up classes and putting you in with cars like the Honda S2000 and WRX's.
We have a 90 LX that has these mods and he ends up running against the WRX's.
Lets face it, your not gonna beat those guys at the cone game,,, road course where you can use the 5.0's power, maybe, but not on a auto-x course.
You need to look at what class you want to run in and then buy-build your car for that class, if not you might end up in A class coming in last place every time,,, thats no fun.
Good luck!!

PS: this was based on the NASA rules, which are fairly laid back compared to SCCA.

[BigCars4Ever]

I bet one of these would tear up an autoX track!!
http://www.arielmotor.co.uk/04/frames.htm

[KAILUAZ]

I forgot to mention, you have to run race rubber to be competitive, that adds a bunch of points right there, in the case of NASA its 10 points or 8 for DOT approval (although there is talk that the tire rule will change in 07).
Mustang starts in D, if you have 10 points for tires you only have 4 points to play with, thats not much. Even with 8 you still have limited mods.
If you got a Stang I would go with at least a 95 up because you get the better suspension and 4 wheel disks.
This is if you are serious about what class you are in and want to be competitive and win a lot. I take the Vic out and just have fun, I'm not concerned with points.
Marauder is in class E with 5 points added on.

Look here for the points and cars by class:
http://nasaxflorida.com/srfiles/nasa-x-classing.pdf

[BK_GrandMarquis]

If you really want to be competitive in the future with the car, don't get a FWD. Granted I have seen little Civics decked out and fast but I can't imagine the amount of work and money he must have put in it to get that far.

The RWD cars are cheap and practical. The AWD are next but they are on the other end of the spectrum, money wise.

[yamahaSHO]

Agree with BK, Miata, or if you need some more room, the Fox bodied stang.

Then again you could try a SHO Taurus, don't think many people autox or Road race them but it would be a good change for them. No idea on how routine stuff would go though.

Miata or Fox body, (Maybe a Fairmount?)

With the right work done, a SHO can be fun on track. I know MANY people that track these things on road courses, quarter mile, AutoX, etc.

I've had plenty of fun in mine....

http://video.ls1tech.com/iplayer.aspx?fileid=3EB49D3F-E8A8-43E8-AC6E-B4AEB4F42B85

http://video.ls1tech.com/iplayer.aspx?fileid=5FCE3384-2DC1-4EDB-90FF-FC5F034A0C72

http://video.ls1tech.com/iplayer.aspx?fileid=BAF25379-6231-4452-9D68-4AB6DD3F4B73

My roommate's SHO with me driving...

http://video.ls1tech.com/iplayer.aspx?fileid=49C16C54-6AE9-49A9-BF33-D2E802ABF326