One more reason why I dislike cops...

[Raudermaster]

Now don't think I hate all cops, just some of them who I don't think serve the community to their full potential and are the stereo typical ones like who hastle young kid's just because they drive a nice, standoutish colored car that may be loud. Putting that aside, leaving class this morning, I pull out onto the highway and the speed limit on that road is 55mph. So, I get into the left lane to pass someone (two laned highway) and I come up on a little Hyundai Elantra that's doing 45mph and I had to slam on my brakes since I was doing 60mph. So when the right lane is clear, I had assumed he would be kind and slip into that lane so I may pass, wrong. I had to get into the right lane and passed him, and as I'm passing him, he blows his horn at me! I'm like, "wtf did I do?" So I shrugged it off, got back in that lane and up ahead I came to a set of lights which were red. He pulls up behind me, and I can see this f@cking guy writing down my plate, and he picks up his cell phone. At this point now I see his white button down shirt with a badge on his chest and a few badges on his shoulder's. Now, I'm not sure if he's a cheif? Or maybe just a security guard with a headrush who has "contacts" in the PD or what. I eventually passed enough cars where he couldn't even see me anymore. Why I'm very pissed off though, is what the hell can I expect to get in the mail if anything? What could he write me up for, passing him? :down: :shake: Granted, I admit I probably scared the hell out of him when I came up behind him, but I mean, it's not like I hit him or anything, or caused him to get irritated when I passed him. He looked like he was about early to mid 50's. I mean, it's crap like that which pisses me off if he has nothing else better to do while he's on the clock than harrass motorists just driving, then why even bother be on the PD? Just on a rant...

[Raudermaster]

And furthermore, I don't even think this asshat was on duty. That's another reason too, if they're not on duty, act like a civilian! IF the time calls for it while you're not on duty, be a cop!

[dreydin]

unless something came of it.. don't sweat it man. don't let someone who doesn't know how to drive throw a temper tantrum and get you stressed out bc of it. let him feel good for thinking he could do anything.

and me no like cops either. i've gotten 2 tickets in the last 2 months for speeding on freeways. please pull over drunk people and give them tickets, not me you a-holes.

:)

[Mike Poore]

And furthermore, I don't even think this asshat was on duty. That's another reason too, if they're not on duty, act like a civilian! IF the time calls for it while you're not on duty, be a cop!
I don't agree with you there, LEO's are on duty 24-7, but sometimes not on the clock. It seems to me there may have two persons in this story who could take some of the blame for the incident, but be thankful nothing bad happened or it escalated into a case of full blown road rage, when really bad things happen.
As far as you getting a summons, I'd doubt it; but there may be some sort of a warning in the mail, depending upon the jurisdiction.
The thing I'd think about, though, is you may have pizzed of an LEO and he may tell his buddies to be on the lookout for you. Tread lightly for a while, is my advice, and make sure you have all your lights in working order, 'cause someone might be looking for an excuse to make a stop.

PS: if you have another car, drive it for a while. ;)

[Dr Caleb]

What could he write me up for, passing him?

Around here, "Passing on the Right" which is illegal, even if the car in the left lane is slower.

Of course, the car doing 45 in a 60 zone is also entitled to a "Failure to yield to a passing vehicle".

[duhtroll]

I agree with the busybody stuff and also that you shouldn't worry unless someone calls on you about it, BUT

As an example, if someone's speeding and they get pulled over for speeding, they have no right to complain. Period.

People like that are pi$$ed because they got caught, not because they feel they have been unfairly treated. They knew the law when they entered the roadway.

Knowing full well something is illegal, then doing it, is one thing.

Knowing full well something is illegal, then doing it, then having the balls to get upset at the officer when caught? That's just plain stupid.

-A

[mtenderenda]

I think the rule on the Autobahn in Germany should be enforced....If you are driving slower in the fast lane and someone comes up behind you....You should move out of the way....People that drive slow in the fast lane should not be there....that is really fustrating..there is more than one lane on the highway for a reason....Left lane is for passing and the right lane(s) is for the slower drivers....
I see people getting onto the highway shooting all the way to the left lane to do the speed limit....I hate that.....

[SID210SA]

Here in S.A. we have a keep Texas moving rule....Left lane=passing lane and if you are not passing or even if no one is around you, you cannot travel that lane....if you do and get caught you get an impeding traffic ticket. Rarely inforced though...

[SergntMac]

I think that if it was a real cop, he would have stayed with you until more units can catch up.

With dangerous drivers in traffic (which may be the way a real cop viewed your actions), I have done it this way myself, while off duty. Best way to proceed is to monitor/track the vehicle while calling for assistance, and let the on-duty cops make the stop. Being the "professional witness" can be important in some cases.

A few years back, a car sped past me (and I am no slow driver) in such a manner, I just knew something was up. I called it in by phone and stay on him from a distance. It took a while for others to catch up, but they did. As the car turned into another street, he was stopped dead in his tracks, and the driver bailed. They ran him down a block later.

Dude had a gun in his waistband, and two more inside the stolen car, along with a kidnapped rape victim in the trunk. No further injuries to anyone, and I felt real good about my instinct to make the decisions I did.

You see...It works both ways. However, looking at your account of things once again, I don't expect you'll have anything to worry about down the road. Real cops get trained on this stuff. If you do get a note in the mail, consider it for what it is, prolly just a warning.

Your rant on cops at large seems a bit biased too, try to keep an open mind?

[dreydin]

As an example, if someone's speeding and they get pulled over for speeding, they have no right to complain. Period.

People like that are pi$$ed because they got caught, not because they feel they have been unfairly treated. They knew the law when they entered the roadway.

Knowing full well something is illegal, then doing it, is one thing.

Knowing full well something is illegal, then doing it, then having the balls to get upset at the officer when caught? That's just plain stupid.

-A

nah, not mad because i get "caught". it has more to do with me paying for that ass's paycheck.


unreasonable people suck. :flamer:

[Power Surge]

It probably wasn't a cop, but you never know. If it was a cop, he may have just run your plate quick to make sure it wasn't a stolen car or something of the nature. Plus, some people just don't drive like some of us do, and take great offense to it. I really wouldn't worry about it. The important thing is to just be safe driving out there.

[O's Fan Rich]

nah, not mad because i get "caught". it has more to do with me paying for that ass's paycheck.


unreasonable people suck. :flamer:

Yep.
BTW mirrors are shiny. That's where I think you should start looking.

[Power Surge]

To keep this on topic, I have one from a few days back...

First off, I've had my share of speeding tickets. I deal with fast cars for a living, and I naturally drive fast. Not like 90 down side streets or anything, but usually 15-20 mph over the posted speed limits usually. I've been pulled over in the past for speeding. Usually it's within other traffic, all moving at the same speed, but because my vehicles usually "stand out", I'm the one who gets pulled over. Do I think it's fair? No. But it was my choice to drive that way, so even though I feel I am purposely singled out of traffic, it's still my fault.

But a few days ago, I am on my way to the shop. I had just pulled out of my road I live on, and was driving normally with other traffic down another street. Nothing odd, doing about 35mph in line with everyone else. In my rear view, I see a cop with his lights on a ways back. I see people moving out of his way. I don't think much of it, I figured he was just responding to something and when he got up by me, I'd move too. Well the car behind me moves over and he gets behind me and turns his lights OFF. I see him typing on his computer, and now I'm saying to myself "WTF, I didn't do anything!". About a 1/4 mile goes by and he flicks his lights on. I pull over, shut my car off, and promptly hand him my license and registration. Here's the coversation...

cop - Where'd you get the car?

me- Uh, I bought it. (not being a smart ass, the question just really caught me off guard)

cop- Where did you get it? Police Auction?

me - No, I bought it privately.

cop - Where did THAT guy get it?

me - I really have no idea.

he looks at the motor and says - Did you do this to the car?

me - Yes, I have a performance shop and this is one of my shop cars.

cop - Where's your front plate?

me - Uh, what do you mean, it's on the car?

cop - Where is your front plate?

me, realizing that I still had the DARE plate on the front - Oh, wait, is the DARE plate on there?

cop - Yes.

me - I hadn't realized it was on there, I put it on for car shows, I must have left it on, my regular plate is under it.

cop - What's up with your exhaust?

me - Not sure what you mean, what's wrong with it?

cop- You know your car is louder than the NY noise limit?

me - Well, the car is 700hp, and I acutally have 4 mufflers on it.

The cop then walks back to his car, and comes back a few minutes later...

cop- Where is your shop?

me - Over on Bicycle Path in Port Jeff.

cop- Well, since you use this for your shop, I am not going to give you a summons, but get that plate off the front and do something with the exhaust.

Now I am not ungrateful that he didn't ticket me, but what ticks me off is that he only pulled me over because he had a hard on for me driving a retired cop car. Some guys just have nothing better to do.

And this is not an anti-cop post, I have a lot of customers that are cops, and are totally cool. And I've had cops hang out with us at that local weekly meets and totally dig my car. Some guys just need to loosen their tie.

[SergntMac]

I liked your post Sal, thanks.

I've been a LEO for 30 years, and I have seen a lot. I worked in IAD for a few years, where we had a special team set up for police impersonators.

If a beat officer in Chicago sees something like your car looked at that moment, they would not stop you, but enter an information report on date, time, location and decription of your car. This 411 goes out the the IAD team, it helps them seperate the real cops doing bad things (and we do) from the impersonators.

There's a checklist of traits and stuff to look for before disturbing the citizen just driving a retired service vehicle, and they follow it. When everything else falls into place, they will look at the car itself for other stuff, like wig wags, strobes and sirens. They sometimes find it, and sometime crimes are solved. Most of the time, it's just a reminder to the owner to correct the resemblence to an active service vehicle.

In your case, the front plate, and the spotlight may be seen as misleading to the public at large, just like having deck lights (even disconnected) visible in plain view.

It's a problem, but it can be dealt with quietly, with a little understanding on both sides of the issue.

[duhtroll]

Your taxes pay the man's check. Your speeding tickets pay for the new radar gun they will use to catch you the next time.

There ya go!

Or I s'pose if they are all bastards as you say, they could just spend your fine on beer. :P


nah, not mad because i get "caught". it has more to do with me paying for that ass's paycheck.


unreasonable people suck. :flamer:

[shakes_26]

Maybe some of your LEO's could come down here and school the locals.... lane discipline is an unfathomable concept south of the FL-GA border.


Around here, "Passing on the Right" which is illegal, even if the car in the left lane is slower.

Of course, the car doing 45 in a 60 zone is also entitled to a "Failure to yield to a passing vehicle".

[Raudermaster]

Mac, I am not biased about cops, I am grateful that they are there to protect me. I simply meant that some abuse their power just to piss people off IMO, and aren't really looking out for the serious crimes. Sal, I had a similar stop with my old '95 CV, except mine wasn't a retired CVPI. I just got bagged for my exhaust, claimed it was illegal (when there is no noise level for MA). All I got was a verbal warning though, said I'd take care of it, and never did lol. I never got stopped for that again though.

[SergntMac]

I fully understand your position 'Rauder, and to a point I agree.

Even with my LEO plates, I still get stopped when I'm out of line. They check me out like they check you out, I even had a trooper call in my IDs when I was traveling out of state, and my boss wanted to know more about what I was doing when I came back. It happens, but there is a reason for it. It's called freedom to act anyway you want, until you get caught, and we all enjoy that.

Y'all...This isn't the first time we collectively turned to cop stories, and generally they go well. Sometimes the terms are overly harsh, and that gets to be a fine line we dance up too. As long as the general tone is acceptable, we can problem solve, or, just vent. But, already in this thread, some have danced very close to that line, when that is unproductive.

I'm not going to remark those posts, 'cause I believe everyone has a right to their opinion. But, let's not test the limits either. Tell your stories, but cool the rehortic.

Hehehe...One of the reasons I joined the cops 30 years ago, is because I was tired of getting stopped for BS over my car and driving habits. I too felt "picked-on", and when one cop took my last .27 cents from my center console, I had enough. I got to work with him a few years after that, and I got my .27 cents back. I was even his boss until he retired two years ago, and I got my apology too.

***** happens, just rember that America is where you can drive across borders, without changing political climates. No matter where you travel, there are rules on how you travel, and they do get enforced.

Carry on gents...

[juno]

Mac, I am not here to stir the pot and I have nothing to add to this thread except that 99% of my dealings with LEO's are fair.
But your attitude about telling people to be cool should be cooled. It is my impression that you let people belittle each other, companies and products on other threads, but you jump on people in this one just because it is a little too close to home for you. Either moderate fairly across all the threads or add a new rule, no cop bashing. I have been a moderator on some boards for a number of years now and I have found that it is best to zip my lip and let the other mods handle threads that hit too close to home for me.

Just

[Blackened300a]

Im not much of a gambling man, but I would be willing to bet that you are going to get a response from Mac and then the Thread will be closed before you can respond.
Then we can add another reason to dislike cops :lol:

[GAMike]

Mass. is high priced Real Estate these days.........

The MA town that I grew up in, mandated that cops "be on the lookout for undesirables...." Expensive parts of town usually hire aggressive police officers who are on the look out for high risk/borderline illegal behavior.

Rolling up on someone and slamming on the brakes, no matter how fast they were going in reference to the lane they are traveling in, might be considered high risk behavior. Not saying that I have never done it, but that does tend to piss ppl. off and focuses their attention on you vs. their own ineptitude that may have been the root cause ofthe incident.

Best regards,

[GAMike]

Mac, I am not here to stir the pot and I have nothing to add to this thread except that 99% of my dealings with LEO's are fair.
But your attitude about telling people to be cool should be cooled. It is my impression that you let people belittle each other, companies and products on other threads, but you jump on people in this one just because it is a little too close to home for you. Either moderate fairly across all the threads or add a new rule, no cop bashing. I have been a moderator on some boards for a number of years now and I have found that it is best to zip my lip and let the other mods handle threads that hit too close to home for me.

Just

Juno....Could not have said it better myself. Its the This is a democracy and I am the king attitude that caused the *****storm a couple weeks back.

If you have fundemental respect for LEO's or not, your opinion will not change here on these boards so why waste the breath. Its a tough job, and a thankless one most of the time.

LEO's often say the reason why they enjoy their jobs is because "no two days are ever the same". I am pretty certain most citizens can substitute "days" for encounters there. This is what most base their like or dislike on...personal experience. But.....If you do the crime...Don't BI#@* about the time or the fine. MAN UP!

Best regards,

[MM2004]

C'mon guys.

Hitting close to home is what has been going on here lately.

Think about it,...

You break the law, there are risks involved.

Driving up behind someone and slamming on the brakes, may warrant the driver, as a LEO to investigate this driver performing these acts.

I would wonder as well. Considering a 15 MPH difference, there is no reason to run up someone's ass, only to hit the brakes at the last minute.

Ride it out and see what happens.

Amazing, the amount of people that feel cops are harassing. But are the first ones called by said people when they are in trouble.

Can we relax a bit. Please?

Thanks,

Mike.

[O's Fan Rich]

I would wonder as well. Considering a 15 MPH difference, there is no reason to run up someone's ass, only to hit the brakes at the last minute.

Mike.

Mike... there sure is a reason - Not paying attention to traffic head of you!

[SergntMac]

Mac, I am not here to stir the pot and I have nothing to add to this thread except that 99% of my dealings with LEO's are fair.
But your attitude about telling people to be cool should be cooled. It is my impression that you let people belittle each other, companies and products on other threads, but you jump on people in this one just because it is a little too close to home for you. Either moderate fairly across all the threads or add a new rule, no cop bashing. I have been a moderator on some boards for a number of years now and I have found that it is best to zip my lip and let the other mods handle threads that hit too close to home for me.

JustNothing is hitting "home" with me here, 'cept some folks tendency to season a position with a little too much salty language. This is my responsibility.

Notwithstanding, everyone who has participated in this thread has done so without any moderation from me, just advice to watch the line of "in good spirits" despite personal anger. if you see this as having a person investment in the topic to control the flow of opinion, I don't see a foundation for that. I too, have added my disappointments with cops over the years, and I'm disappointed more because I am a cop too. Cover up those opinions? Not for one second...No way.

Please read again?

Ditto to Blackened300A, and GAMike, you are now derailing the thread for your own purpose. That's a shame too, but it's not new. If y'all think I am going stop participating in threads, you are mistaken. I am a member here first, as well as an Administrator. Take your positions as you wish, but take the blame than comes with voice that, stiring up trouble that doesn't exist until you bring to the thread.

I am not the King, but I am a cop on the beat. This thread will be closed when a complaint is made, or when it has lost it usefulness to the membership at large, and it's y'all who control that content.

Meanwhile, carry on gents...

[Bigdogjim]

Well after 2,000,000 miles + with a tour bus all over America I have found that for every ticket I got there were 10 I did not get.

What comes around goes around.:)

[GAMike]

Sorry to be off point Sarge and this is the last time I will be on this thread, but I notice a consistent tone in your posts, and Juno did too. I called you on it a while back with the TAF Cluster F***, and Juno called you on it here.

I don't have an axe to grind with LEO's not at all. I just think you sometimes bring your attitude "home" when it should be left at the job. Face it your not a very diplomatic person. When things get under your coller or go on topics that are uncomfortable, you have a hard time maintaining a civil demeanor.

If you think this means I don't appreciate your stewardship of MM.net your wrong. Effort is much appreciated, how the effort is applied is in question.

Thats all I have to say.

Best regards,

[BigMerc]

And furthermore, I don't even think this asshat was on duty. That's another reason too, if they're not on duty, act like a civilian! IF the time calls for it while you're not on duty, be a cop!


you're an *****

[jabo731]

I'm a cop and I've been one for 11 years and No we are not perfect. On the other hand when I was 19 and got tickets while acting up with my Mustang I thought the Cops/troopers were f up. That person who stops you is human, and its just a job. Best way to deal with a LEO is to be humble and apologetic and not assaholic. Remember if you play with fire you will get burned.

[SamF]

Well after 2,000,000 miles + with a tour bus all over America I have found that for every ticket I got there were 10 I did not get.

What comes around goes around.:)


Yep, and thats not a bad ratio to live with. ;) As long as you manage to keep the points off the license, I consider them "Tolls"

[KAILUAZ]

nah, not mad because i get "caught". it has more to do with me paying for that ass's paycheck.


unreasonable people suck. :flamer:

Thats a great reason to get mad,,,, :flamer:

[MM2004]

Ya' know,...

The owners of this board have been criticized for being "heavy handed".

As one of the owners, I do not see it that way.

I have asked politley once to please be civil on this discussion.

The other by Mike P.

No further warnings will be issued, as this is to be considered the third.

Again, keep it civil, or this thread will be closed.

If it is closed, do not blame us. We have been more than patient.

Mike.

[Donny Carlson]

Ya' know,...If it is closed, do not blame us. We have been more than patient.

Mike.

Mike,

Please do not take this reply as a challenge or an attempt to stir anything up. Remain calm. This is a geniune question meant to improve my understanding of how things are being done now.

I read in an earlier ADMIN post that forums had been assigned moderators. The list was like this:

Garage = SergntMac/RF Overlord
Lounge = Cruztaker/MM2004
Community = MercMan/MM2004
Storyboard = Dennis Reinhart
Members = Mike Poore
Vendors = BigDogJim/MercMan
Regional Forums = BigDogJim/MercMan
Site Suggestions = MM03MOK

So, since we are here in the Lounge, this is your playground (along with Barry) to keep an eye on, right? What I find a bit confusing is that it appears that admins other than those assigned to a forum seem to be moderating across the board, i.e., besides you and Barry any other admins can perform moderation duties here as well. There seems to be an inconsistency between what one moderator deems as okay and another looking at the same post deems not okay and decides to edit, delete, close a thread, etc.

You get what I'm saying?

It could be a misperception on my part, and if so, please clear it up for me.

[MI2QWK4U]

And furthermore, I don't even think this asshat was on duty. That's another reason too, if they're not on duty, act like a civilian! IF the time calls for it while you're not on duty, be a cop!

You will find that is pretty much impossible. People in law enforcement see things differently than "civilians", mostly due to the fact they see and experience things these very "civilians" almost never see, and probably could never imagine.

[MM2004]

Mike,

Please do not take this reply as a challenge or an attempt to stir anything up. Remain calm. This is a geniune question meant to improve my understanding of how things are being done now.

I read in an earlier ADMIN post that forums had been assigned moderators. The list was like this:

Garage = SergntMac/RF Overlord
Lounge = Cruztaker/MM2004
Community = MercMan/MM2004
Storyboard = Dennis Reinhart
Members = Mike Poore
Vendors = BigDogJim/MercMan
Regional Forums = BigDogJim/MercMan
Site Suggestions = MM03MOK

So, since we are here in the Lounge, this is your playground (along with Barry) to keep an eye on, right? What I find a bit confusing is that it appears that admins other than those assigned to a forum seem to be moderating across the board, i.e., besides you and Barry any other admins can perform moderation duties here as well. There seems to be an inconsistency between what one moderator deems as okay and another looking at the same post deems not okay and decides to edit, delete, close a thread, etc.

You get what I'm saying?

It could be a misperception on my part, and if so, please clear it up for me.

I am calm, and will remain that way Donny. ;)

Answering your question, this is all of our playground. And I get what you are saying.

The list above does in fact somewhat spell out our structure in moderating assigned forums.

However, all of us wear many hats in running this site, and are making every attempt at being fair and consistent across the board.

We are not perfect, and mistakes have been made, with more to follow, I am sure of that.

The list above gives each and every one of us a key focus. Splitting assignments if you will. We are also 'cross-functional' in assisting each other in one's absence.

I can understand where it may look like we are stepping on one-anothers toes. But that is not the case. Not saying it hasn't happened by accident, just not deliberate.

Again, we are striving to be consistent, and are still feeling one-another out as each one of us may perceive things a little differently than the other.

I do hope this answers your question(s), or at least sheds a little light on the running of the board?

Thanks for asking,

Mike.

[Raudermaster]

Oh, so I'm the asshat for driving with the traffic and doing a miserable 5mph over the speed limit, and I come to a turn that slopes down, don't see this guy, and I slam on my brakes? I see. And if he did that, it would be alright though correct since he could be "responding to a call." And I knew if I made this thread, I would be turned into the bad guy by all of your older fella's. You forget, you were my age once as well.

[jabo731]

Raudermaster we are not beating up on you, atleast I'm not. If you read ealier when I was 19 I had a brand new Mustang which I modded quite a bit. I know you don't agree but looking back now I believe that wasn't the right car for me at the time. Trust me I had lots of fun and did alot of stupid stuff, Parents had to spend alot of money on traffic lawyers. Funny when I was processing to become a Police Officer I got called on the carpet for my little fun. I basically told them that ,that was the me before the Marine Corps and that I'm was more discipline at my appt. time.

[SergntMac]

Oh, so I'm the asshat for driving with the traffic and doing a miserable 5mph over the speed limit, and I come to a turn that slopes down, don't see this guy, and I slam on my brakes? I see. And if he did that, it would be alright though correct since he could be "responding to a call." And I knew if I made this thread, I would be turned into the bad guy by all of your older fella's. You forget, you were my age once as well.If you want to call yourself an "azzhat", that your business, but I don't think anyone else has.

Given the fact as you have stated them, you were only 5 MPH over, but you encounterd a driver 10 under in the fast lane. Add it up, that's a 15 MPH collision at 55 MPH, it won't be pretty. Perhaps a "hard braking event" is the result of avoiding that?

Like I said before, don't be too hard on yourself, but you were the one behind the wheel. Still no real identification of who the other guy was, we're all taking your cue that it was in fact a cop, or, cop like person in the other car, Hell, could have been a doorman/watchman too. Does it matter?

Not really, there are a lot more "road vigilanties" out today calling in reports of other drivers, must be a thing for them to do in the cell-phone/911 world today. I say chuck it off, but don't ignore any registered mail from the DMV either. Time will tell.

Meanwhile, I never consider your age in this, but others may have. Maybe it's a factor, maybe not. At any rate, in a year or so, come back and read this again, and tell us all how you feel about it then? I'd love to see what a little maturity may add to the mix.

[Mad4Macs]

Guy? If you were doing 60, and had to "slam on your brakes" to avoid hitting someone doing 45, you were asleep at the wheel and need driving lessons.
You should have been able to see, and avoid, that car from a mile away, so quit yer *****in'.

[juno]

Ya' know,...

The owners of this board have been criticized for being "heavy handed".

As one of the owners, I do not see it that way.

I have asked politley once to please be civil on this discussion.

The other by Mike P.

No further warnings will be issued, as this is to be considered the third.

Again, keep it civil, or this thread will be closed.

If it is closed, do not blame us. We have been more than patient.

Mike.


First of all and utmost you and the other owners own nothing.
Unless you own the software or the servers this site runs on, the only thing keeping this site alive are the miriad of people that contribute to the essence of this site.
The essence of this site for me is the number of wonderful people who contribute to the technical aspects of this vehicle we all love. But above and beyond that it is the people. Perhaps you have not listened, but it has been said a hundred times, if not more, that most people value this site for the friendships. Yes, the car brought us together, but you can go on this site every day and witness people laughing and crying together, mourning and celebrating our personal victories and losses. I log on to this site hoping to learn something new to help me with my car. That does not happen every day, but I am richly rewarded by hearing how other people are doing with their projects and with their lives.
We fight and squabble, but for the most part we respect each other. I am a relative latecomer to this site and maybe I missed out on the wars in the beginniing, but my time here has been relatively smooth. As smooth as any community can expect to be and smoother then a lot of internet communities. With a few exceptions the members are quick to help and slow to criticize.
Perhaps I am missing something, but I have not seen anything in this thread which violates the forum rules. Have threads been deleted? Is there a new threshold of interpretation of the rules that I am unaware of? Do they apply to this thread only? If so, please show us all those violations so we can be aware of them in the future.

And yes, IMHO the owners have been heavy handed. Maybe it is just growing pains but you need to get over it and understand what "moderating" is about. We are not a bunch of little kids here. This "I am an owner and what I say goes" does not fly. If the rules don't suit you, then change them. Then the members can decide if they still want to play in "your" sandbox.
That is your only perogative as an owner.
Arbitrary enforcement and vague interperatation does not help the members or the owners.

And since you are throwing threats around, the new owners have been warned numerous times by various members about their attitude/conduct. This thread is just another one.

Is this a business to you folks? If that is the way you see it, IMHO you are being decidedly unprofessional.

Are you trying to maintain a sense of community? Not by most of the actions lately.
You need to ask yourselves if this is the way you behave or the atmosphere you want at work, or at home or in your neighborhood. The same standards apply here. You expect the members to behave a certain way and we have the same expectations of you.
This thread is relatively meaningless. A few people venting about some interactions with the law. If they were venting about the phone company or the cable company or the pool boy would you be so quick to take a stand?

[SergntMac]

Hey Donny...I've got a question for you.

I live in a condo, one of 12 units in a small association of owners. I own 1/12th of this 2 million dollar property. Inside the condos, is private property, but the common areas are owned by all of us. It's still private property outside of the circle of 12, but shared among the 12 owners within the circle of 12. This makes life very interesting at times.

All of us can walk on our grass, wash our cars with condo paid for water, park our cars in the condo owned garage, and have BBQ in the condo owned back yard, and without permission from the remaining 11. Still, none of us can walk nude through our hallways, play our music too loud, or, fail to take out our garbage, without condo assn. permission.

Our condo association has keys to every unit, and can exercise access into the private property any time the need arises as justified, such as one owner's heart attack last year. If we had not exercised that authority, he would not be with us today.

We are also jointly responsible for cutting the grass, shoveling the snow, washing common area windows, cleaning common area carpets, taking out common area trash, and calling the police when cars jumping the curb hit the building, or stranger are found lurking in the halls. Shared (and sometimes major) responsibility, but only one of us, controls the checkbook.

So, when a light bulb is burned out in the hall, all of us are responsible for changing it ASAP, to keep us all out of trouble with the Fire Marshall. But, only one of us can buy new lightbulbs, the association Treasurer. We all shovel the snow and cut the grass as needed, but only one approves the tune up and maintence of the snow blower and lawn mower. Allm of us will call the police when the property is trespassed.

To this end, when the Treasurer does not file the taxes on time and the IRS comes to seize the property, all of us are evicted, not just the lazy Treasurer.

Can you tell me how this division of ownership and responsibility is any different from nine of us owning the MM.Net?

IMHO, it's not, and we are structured almost exactly the same way. We have one owner responsible for keeping the financial books, collecting assn. fees, recording them, and paying out the bills. If that owner is ever incapacitated for any reason, one of us remaining eight will have to step in and share responsibility, but none of us can say "it's not my job". Even when the Treasurer is going away from the property for a weekend somewhere, the master keys are passed to another owner who will be home, along with the checkbook and a small amount of cash for emergencies.

Mike and Barry may have the assigned responsibility for our "Lounge", but none of us nine are banned from acting on/reacting to concerns at the instant. What concerns MM.net management the most, is the joint responsibility of all owners, not just the one or two assigned to a specific forum. First to find the need for intervention, is not excused from taking action, as it has been demonstrated here in this thread.

The fact that we agreed on what conduct is a violation of our policy and subject to moderation, has been agreed upon fairly. We have gone to extremes in deciding this, and will always be ready to adjust our rules and decisions when just cause calls for it.

What some have called "heavy handed tactics" is really a total lack of any moderation at all, for at least the last six months. I'ts been quite a task for us to restore fairness and order, and some folks will see it as harmful and over-bearing reaction. A very small few who had special treatment cease, will never understand. However, the MM.Net has a condo association running it now, and all of it would run smoother if some folks would try to understand our objectives too.

Can you answer my question, Donny? Is there any difference?

[juno]

However, the MM.Net has a condo association running it now,

Mac, I don't mean to take anything out of context or just clip a few of your words, but I could not help myself. That line sums up a lot!!! :D

I am sure your covenants are spelled out very specifically and any violation is responded to with specific lanquage referencing the actual violation and the rule violated. That may be a good start here. We require it on the forum I am currently moderating.

[SergntMac]

First of all and utmost you and the other owners own nothing.You are correct, we own very little. We do not own the servers, or, the lines that run to and from them. We do not own one chip, NIC, hard drive, and so on. We rent that under a lease agreement renewed periodically. We do not own the JelSoft vBulletin software we use here, we rent that too, under a license renewed periodically. However, if and when things are not operated to the hardware and softwar owner's approval, we lose our lease and license. What we do own, is the MM.Net domain name, and if we fall out of favor with the governing bodies involved in all that, our domain name can be redlined by a higher authorities that include many US. Government agencies, including the F.C.C., I.R.S., and F.B.I. Fail to cooperate with one of them in some way, and our domain name can be rendered revoked.
We fight and squabble, but for the most part we respect each other. I am a relative latecomer to this site and maybe I missed out on the wars in the beginniing, but my time here has been relatively smooth. As smooth as any community can expect to be and smoother then a lot of internet communities. With a few exceptions the members are quick to help and slow to criticize. Perhaps I am missing something, but I have not seen anything in this thread which violates the forum rules. Have threads been deleted? Is there a new threshold of interpretation of the rules that I am unaware of? Do they apply to this thread only? If so, please show us all those violations so we can be aware of them in the future.Frankly, deletions of any content are absent from our Administrator notes. Nothing of what you ask has taken place here. We have tested defeating the recording system. When any moderation occurs, it generates a log that cannot be silenced or edited by any means short of dumping the whole site and starting over like it was day one again. No deletions, only one edit on record here in this thread. Every thread has it's own independent log, and even when a thread is closed, or, deleted from public view, this log is a permanent and visible record. Moreover, other than what has been edited (an insult by one member against another) here, there have been no clear violations of our policy, just a little dancing close to the line that earned a general "at large" reminder. No real harm to anyone (yet) no banning of any member, and very little embarassment to anyone that is not self-imposed. In fact, I wanted to ask you this question too, 'cause while you say you see it, I have not and there are no logs in support of your sentiment. Yes, rules have been revised in a very small way. We took Logan's rules as stated 4 years ago, and revamped them to be more timely to the www community today. There are a lot more things to police today than back in 2002, and Logan did not imagine them. So, we covered them by inclusion, dumped some old stuff we did not agree with because we are nine now, and not one, and put our signatures on it all, literally, on real paper now in Mary's files. They are also now posted at the top of every forum, please give them a review at your conveinence?
And yes, IMHO the owners have been heavy handed. Maybe it is just growing pains but you need to get over it and understand what "moderating" is about. We are not a bunch of little kids here. This "I am an owner and what I say goes" does not fly. If the rules don't suit you, then change them.We do understand. No you are not all kids. But some of you act that way. I feel we know how to do our jobs. Two of us have been moderators here for over two years, Another has been a supporting vendor at umpteen sites for at least the last five years. Another is presently involved in very deep control of another very important intra-net. I and another have been members here for over 4 years, there is one among us we could call a "noob". All in all, it's much better balanced moderating and agreement than you give us credit for. With regards to "I am an owner and what I say goes" is a gross mis-quote, sorry to see that you fell into that too. The original post is still hanging here, not closed, or, edited. The quote you point to, was a review of Logan's "one owner, one decision" rule, with emphasis on exactly what he meant. In the sentences that follow the quote, comes a description of what was to change, and what was not changing, and why. Cut enough verbs and adjectives out of it, and it can be twisted to mean almost anything you want. Someone did exactly that, and if you believe of us nine meant what you imply today, you too are a victim of that fraud. OTOH, it does ring true in some circumstances, truth about it all at the bottom line. We are the new owners and trying to establish agreements with our membership. Some new rules, some old, and we are trying very hard to distingush the difference. Can we look at it another way? Yes. Right now, you are reading this from a computer somewhere in the free world. At the point where your figner tips strike the keyboard, your control of (and responsibilty for) your words begins a slow decline. In the best of all things considered, you own everything inside your home, up to the point where your telehone/cable connection exits your home. After that, all is dependent on your agreements with your service provider. If you don't pay your phone bill, you get shut off. If you do not pay your ISP provider (such as AOL), you are shut off. If you don't pay for your newpaper delivery, no news to read over breakfast, follow me? But if you get to our doors, we don't ask for any payments, just your cooperation. We ask that you respect our rules and post accordingly. We ask that you do not use offensive language to insult others. Yes, we agree that "life sucks" but telling one member "you suck" is inappropriate behavior on our site. Yes, "*****" happens, but "****** you" is inappropriate behavior on our web site. If you enjoy adult entertainment, i.e. pics of adults in sexually explicit positions, enjoy it elsewhere, and if you try to circulate, or, promote any sexual content with non-consenting adults, children, or things of that nature, we will report this to authorities and fully cooperate with their investigations. All of this is free to you, as long as you follow our rules. When you do not, we shut you off. Is this so wrong? You don't have to give us one nickle of your money, just respect our goals, and it's all free to you. Help any?
Then the members can decide if they still want to play in "your" sandbox. That is your only perogative as an owner. Arbitrary enforcement and vague interperatation does not help the members or the owners.Nothing has been "arbitrary", or, vague as it comes from us owners, but I am surprised by what hasn't been heard too. Hopefully, we can work on this from here? While we have granted full amensty and pardon to all members (regardless of contributions) for everyting occuring prior to 6 Oct. 2006, we have not been granted that in return. Just today, I spoke with a member via telephone, still angry about how I called him an azz two years ago. He did not know that I took a two day suspension for that, and we worked it out now. That was my decision back then, as a regular member at large. I didn't have any appeal with Logan, it was my word against his, and Logan owned the site, his rule. None of y'all will be treated this way again here, and that's all us nine can promise. A better way to sort things out without discipline, but when discipline is clearly the answer, it shall be swift. Is this not improvement?

And since you are throwing threats around, the new owners have been warned numerous times by various members about their attitude/conduct. This thread is just another one.No threats toward anyone are voiced here. Not one. Promises about improvements, yes.

You need to ask yourselves if this is the way you behave or the atmosphere you want at work, or at home or in your neighborhood. The same standards apply here. You expect the members to behave a certain way and we have the same expectations of you.
This thread is relatively meaningless. A few people venting about some interactions with the law. If they were venting about the phone company or the cable company or the pool boy would you be so quick to take a stand?If you believe my interests are deeply personal to me, you are wrong. I'll be the first to expect any LEO to be fair and impartial in his actions, and I have. My record stinks of this...

Whoops, ran out od space, have to truncate this now. Maybe more later?

[SergntMac]

Mac, I don't mean to take anything out of context or just clip a few of your words, but I could not help myself. That line sums up a lot!!! :D

I am sure your covenants are spelled out very specifically and any violation is responded to with specific lanquage referencing the actual violation and the rule violated. That may be a good start here. We require it on the forum I am currently moderating. Sorry, my friend, but I missed your reply while writing my own.

Let's continue to talk? Please?

[Motorhead350]

I could go on and on about police, but for the most part I have really had no trouble, but I will say this. Some judge you by your car. I can give you a quick example. I was driving my truck through the suburbs and got pulled over for doing 15 over. The speed limit was 25. Lets think...:rolleyes: An old Chevy truck driving in suburbia probably means two things... one I'll mention. They know it's someone from outta town sense it's not a crappy car or their dads mercedez benz. In the end a lotta bad stuff happened over nothing and the limit was a speed trap anyway because the limit goes to 40 right where I got pulled over. Two weeks later I went back in my Marauder and sure enough the speed limit sign was in a hard to read area, you could easily go 40 with no danger to anyone and right before it goes to 40 theres a cop waiting for you like your his next victim like some wild animal and your his next meal.

City cops are some of the coolest people ever... at least those who I have talked to or seen. Hope your luck gets better, but I will tell you this... my view of authority was changed forever this year and it wasn't for the better and my view of the "system."

[Mike Poore]

and the limit was a speed trap anyway because the limit goes to 40 right where I got pulled over."

That's exactly what happened to me, only in reverse, about 10 years ago, my last ticket, on my birthday, to boot.

It was Huntingdon, PA, and we were following another motorist in a pickup, us in a Bronco, out of town, in a 25 MPH limit, with a 55 MPH limit sign clearly visible up ahead. It was a straight stretch, past the last houses, and the pickup speeded up, and so did we. The officer was waiting at the last street, and cited me for exceeding the 25 MPH limit. I was polite, handed him my cards and ID, and thanked him for keeping us all safe; all the while calling him a chicken***** assh0le, under my breath. :mad2:

Was it crap, was it a speed trap, yes to both; but as others have pointed out it's part of the cost of driving, and every so often, it's your turn to pay.

Tell you what, though, since that time, I have never spent a single cent in that town, where in the past we used to stop for dinner, and gas up. It's on my way to our hunting camp, and Penn State football games. In the 10 years, since, I've gone through there, as I figure, more than 200 times. (20 trips a year x 10 years) It gives me satisfaction in a perverse way, to think it was Huntingdon that ended up getting screwed, not me. :P

But Barb alwasy reminds me, to watch my speed, going through there, ...both ways. :nono:

So, in a way, I'm still paying. ;)

I agree with you, though, I think an LEO is more inclined to stop a ricer, with fart can attached, and pumping out 5,000db of the Ramones, before he'll stop grandpa in his clean shiny pickup. :geezer:

[O's Fan Rich]

I could go on and on about police, but for the most part I have really had no trouble, but I will say this. Some judge you by your car. I can give you a quick example. I was driving my truck through the suburbs and got pulled over for doing 15 over. The speed limit was 25. Lets think...:rolleyes: An old Chevy truck driving in suburbia probably means two things... one I'll mention. They know it's someone from outta town sense it's not a crappy car or their dads mercedez benz. In the end a lotta bad stuff happened over nothing and the limit was a speed trap anyway because the limit goes to 40 right where I got pulled over. Two weeks later I went back in my Marauder and sure enough the speed limit sign was in a hard to read area, you could easily go 40 with no danger to anyone and right before it goes to 40 theres a cop waiting for you like your his next victim like some wild animal and your his next meal.

City cops are some of the coolest people ever... at least those who I have talked to or seen. Hope your luck gets better, but I will tell you this... my view of authority was changed forever this year and it wasn't for the better and my view of the "system."

And yet you have never done anything while driving that would deserve a fine/ticket/reprimand that you have not been caught for....
See BigDogJim's post....

[Motorhead350]

Makes sense, but my views have still been changed. Those suburbs cops.... :mad2:

[cvpi71]

nothing to see move along

[jgc61sr2002]

During 35 years of service I never hasseled anyone who was obeying the law.
IMO the average Police Officer will not stop you unless you bring attention to yourself.

[Motorhead350]

But you gotta admit you know what cars look like their from outta town and what fits the neighborhood.

[Power Surge]

During 35 years of service I never hasseled anyone who was obeying the law.
IMO the average Police Officer will not stop you unless you bring attention to yourself.

I don't believe that there is an "average" officer. Each person has their own views on things, and their own pet peeves, regardless of what they are supposed to and not supposed to do.

I've been pulled over and ticketed because my vehicle visually stood out when everyone around me was doing the same thing (say, doing 65mph on the LIE along with everyone else). On the flip side of that, I've been pulled over in vehicles I was driving simply because the officer wanted to check out my car. At our local weekly night time meet, we've had cops come in and be total asses and kick us out, and then we've had cops who are into cars get out and BS with us for an hour checking all the cars out. I've had cops give me a hard time about my Interceptor, and then I've had cops who've drooled over it wishing they got to drive it instead of their stocker.

When it comes down to it, I believe that an officer who is into cars, is more understanding to "spirited" driving, than an officer who isn't into cars.

[Motorhead350]

Yup you said it and lets all remember police are human. Some are cool some are *********... no matter what your job.

[Raudermaster]

Well, thanks for all your response guys. You guys were A LOT more leaniant, and more "cool" than the guys over at CVN. Jesus, I had WW3 with some of them. Most of them not seeing it from my POV, and just making quick assumptions since I am a kid with a flashy car. Granted, there are a lot more member's over there than here to bash on me, or agree with me, which some did. Basically, every post someone had said I am an ********* for hating cops, which I don't! I do realize though, I SHOULD have worded the title different, as I put the same title over there as the same as this one.
-Jarod

[SergntMac]

Well, thanks for all your response guys. You guys were A LOT more leaniant, and more "cool" than the guys over at CVN. Jesus, I had WW3 with some of them. Most of them not seeing it from my POV, and just making quick assumptions since I am a kid with a flashy car. Granted, there are a lot more member's over there than here to bash on me, or agree with me, which some did. Basically, every post someone had said I am an ********* for hating cops, which I don't! I do realize though, I SHOULD have worded the title different, as I put the same title over there as the same as this one.
-JarodNo problem my friend. As I read your posts, I thought to myself "this guy must be taking some heat from elsewhere, to feel the way he does about us here", and it seems I was right.

Have to tell you something else, Jarod...Your post started some discussions about me too, and why I was posting in your thread. Look at it as an "aftermarket product" attached to the OEM?

You see, Jarod, I am "the cop" to some folks here, "Sherrif", and I earned some negative attention from them because they feel I am overbearing at large and I was posting here only to squelch your complaint.

I was not trying to do that, but I took the critque in stride too. Seems to me you have to do this as well about posts and rebuttals elsewhere on the www. So, take it in stride, and drive on my friend. May you not meet up with your special traffic "angel" soon?

BTW, I never though for a second that you really "hated" cops. Though you said so, I knew you didn't believe that. Very few really do.

[Raudermaster]

Thanks Mac! :) I usually don't drive like an a$$ though, I'm too afraid of dinging up the MM. And to all, thanks for "constructive criticism," as I will *try* to drive safer.

[SHERIFF]

You see, Jarod, I am "the cop" to some folks here, "Sherrif", and I earned some negative attention from them ....

One R. Two Fs. SHERIFF. :)

Don't feel bad though. DMV once sent me a registration card with SHERIFF, but they embossed SHERRIF on the metal license plates. If I had used the metal plates without having them corrected they would come back as "not on file" forever. :rofl:

[RCSignals]

I think the rule on the Autobahn in Germany should be enforced....If you are driving slower in the fast lane and someone comes up behind you....You should move out of the way....People that drive slow in the fast lane should not be there....that is really fustrating..there is more than one lane on the highway for a reason....Left lane is for passing and the right lane(s) is for the slower drivers....
I see people getting onto the highway shooting all the way to the left lane to do the speed limit....I hate that.....

Except that here there is a 'speed limit and slow moving vehicle lane' and a 'speed limit' lane.

I agree the left lane should be used for passing, leaving most driving in the right lane. These days however, on two lane highways especially, it's difficult when there is a split speed limit. That is for example, 55mph for trucks, and 65mph for all others. This means that trucks must remain in the right lane (they don't always) proceeding at 55mph, and everyone else, if they are going to drive at least the speed limit, must always travel in the left lane. There is rarely a time on highways that trucks are no present.
This has made worse the effect of drivers when getting on the highway 'shooting all the way to the left lane', sometimes dangerously.

[Donny Carlson]

Hey Donny...I've got a question for you.

Can you answer my question, Donny? Is there any difference?

With all due respect, Mac, the question was asked of Mike, who is the official moderator of this forum. He answered the question to my satisfaction and in a far more succinct and courteous manner. Thanks Mike.

I decline to engage in further dicussion of this matter with you, sir.