Ford's 5.4 V8

[bryanthomas]

I was just thinking about cars today, and thought of an interesting discussion question: Why hasn't Ford utilized its 5.4L V8 in more performance vehicles?

FWIW, my uncle has an F-150 with the 5.4 and it sounds great through is custom exhaust. I was just thinking, how cool would it have been if the Marauder came with the 5.4? :D

[LVMarauder]

Two words: Deck Height. You would have to mod the hood to make it fit... OR do what MadMax has done an say F it and cut a hole in the hood.

[Black_Noise]

back when i had my cvpi i saw pics of a black panther with the v-10 truck swap. now thats stepping it up a notch, BAM!!

[Power Surge]

Two words: Deck Height. You would have to mod the hood to make it fit... OR do what MadMax has done an say F it and cut a hole in the hood.

You wouldn't have to mod the hood just because it's a 5.4. Since the current 5.4 just comes in trucks, the intakes are very tall, so hood clearance would be an issue for a "swap", but Ford could have easily made a passenger car intake for the 5.4 and it would fit fine.

[Bigdogjim]

5.4L is a very solid motor, I run them over 400,000 miles in the E-350's :)

I would like to see the 6.8L V-10 under the hood:):):)

[Marauder2005]

The 5.4 was used in many of Fords Preformence vehicles.

These years and HP #s might be slightly off but;

2000-2003 F150 Harley S/C 5.4 (340HP)

1999-2004 F150 S/C 5.4 (360HP)

2006+ F150 Harley 5.4 (300HP)

2007+ GT500 S/C 5.4 (500HP)

2005+ GT Supercar S/C 5.4 (550HP)

They have utilized it plenty............

[blkwidowmerc]

in the spring of 2007 ford will be selling the 5.4 cobra motor with super charger and wiring harness and computer all you need to install for 8,500.00.the had one on display here in oklahoma at the mustang show and looking at the set up it will fit under the hood just fine with no mods

[99SVT]

You wouldn't have to mod the hood just because it's a 5.4. Since the current 5.4 just comes in trucks, the intakes are very tall, so hood clearance would be an issue for a "swap", but Ford could have easily made a passenger car intake for the 5.4 and it would fit fine.


You mean something like this....

http://www.filehigh.com/serve/2912/284159.jpg
http://www.filehigh.com/serve/2912/284160.jpg
http://www.filehigh.com/serve/2912/284161.jpg
http://www.filehigh.com/serve/2912/284163.jpg

Here's an optional motor, a turbocharged 4.0L inline 6 360hp/400+tq
http://www.filehigh.com/serve/2912/284164.jpg

[Marauder2005]

^^^^

Damn you Ford, Damn you to hell :alone:

[Raudermaster]

We are all forgetting the beloved Lightning and the wonder's that truck does. Alright, so is FPV a "part" of Ford?

[RR|Suki]

We are all forgetting the beloved Lightning and the wonder's that truck does. Alright, so is FPV a "part" of Ford?

Yes, it's the SVT of australia... and their cars pwn the ones we hae over here

[RoyLPita]

For a while, I was contemplating in installing a N/A 5.4 SOHC enigne into a CVPI. That dream is on hold for now.

[SergntMac]

Same old topic, with the same old answer...No.

No 5.4L DOHC in a panther frame sedan, 'cause it won't fit. Even the 4.6L DOHC doesn fit well, it's off center on more axis than I care to count again.

Get out your tape measures, and a spec sheet for the 5.4L DOHC, and you will realize that 1.25" is a lot of space not to have.

Now, if you want to rebuild the firewall and give up your HVAC, go ahead and git 'er done. Leave some time for the six speed manual too.

[Power Surge]

Same old topic, with the same old answer...No.

No 5.4L DOHC in a panther frame sedan, 'cause it won't fit. Even the 4.6L DOHC doesn fit well, it's off center on more axis than I care to count again.

Get out your tape measures, and a spec sheet for the 5.4L DOHC, and you will realize that 1.25" is a lot of space not to have.

Now, if you want to rebuild the firewall and give up your HVAC, go ahead and git 'er done. Leave some time for the six speed manual too.

Not sure I understand why you think all that. I have a 5.4 in my car. And the SOHC and DOHC are the same width, so if my Lightning 5.4 fits in a Panther, then so should a DOHC version. The firewall was nowhere near the motor. It's tight on the heater box, and in other places, but that's not a big deal. And I'm not sure why anything would be "off axis". The block mounting is the same. Nothing should be in any different axis than a stock motor.

[bryanthomas]

Thanks for all the replies guys! I was just genuinely curious about this. I didn't really think about the performance trucks, so I guess when they are considered it would seem Ford has utilized the 5.4 more than I thought. It would have been nice to see a few more Mustangs roll out of the factory with a 5.4 (Remember the 2000 Cobra R?). I personally love N/A cars and the old saying, "There's no replacement for displacement" came to mind when I started this thread. Nothing wrong with the venerable 4.6 under the hood of the Merc, but hey, who wouldn't want a few more cubes? ;)

[SergntMac]

Not sure I understand why you think all that. I have a 5.4 in my car. And the SOHC and DOHC are the same width, so if my Lightning 5.4 fits in a Panther, then so should a DOHC version. The firewall was nowhere near the motor. It's tight on the heater box, and in other places, but that's not a big deal. And I'm not sure why anything would be "off axis". The block mounting is the same. Nothing should be in any different axis than a stock motor.With regards to engine measurements, I disagree with you. No one anywhere has accomplished this without major surgery, it's not a weekend project. But, I don't wish to argue this point again, I've been covering it for almost four years now. Trust me, if it was as easy of a swap as most folks suggest, I would have done it long ago.

Moreover, Ford would have done it too, just to be able to offer the increased power to the police market. Those dudes will buy anything they can to get the upper hand, and IMHO, this is quite telling of the whole situation. Even the US. Secret Service can not get it done for the Presidential details. The bottom line is that the panther frame would have to be re-engineered for that engine, and the engineering would be expensive.

With respect to the stock fit of a 4.6L DOHC in a Marauder, find one close to you, and go over it yourself? Measure the position of the engine as it sits in the saddle. Measure the transmission angles and drive shaft stuff too. None of it is square, straight, or, centered, and this isn't new. My car was measured and indexed by a professional race car builder back in '03 when Zack and I were developing control arms, not a straight line in the car until you reach the driveshaft, and even that is off the centerline.

Again, no disrespect to your accomplishments or talent, Sal, but your panther "Mad Max" conversion and a Marauder with a 4V DOHC 5.4L are apples and oranges.

Carry on gents.

[Power Surge]

With regards to engine measurements, I disagree with you. No one anywhere has accomplished this without major surgery, it's not a weekend project. But, I don't wish to argue this point again, I've been covering it for almost four years now. Trust me, if it was as easy of a swap as most folks suggest, I would have done it long ago.

Well, I don't believe it's that difficult. And I did my swap in one weekend. And I feel that my swap was more difficult than putting a DOHC 5.4 into an 03up Panther.


Moreover, Ford would have done it too, just to be able to offer the increased power to the police market. Those dudes will buy anything they can to get the upper hand, and IMHO, this is quite telling of the whole situation. Even the US. Secret Service can not get it done for the Presidential details. The bottom line is that the panther frame would have to be re-engineered for that engine, and the engineering would be expensive.

Absolutely, 100% untrue. Ford has no obligation to put anything of "power" into a police vehicle. Police vehicles are made for toughness and long life, not high horsepower. If Ford had any desire to put more hp in a police version panther, they would have put the PI GT motor in it, or even the MM/Mach1/Cobra motor. They had plenty of chances to put a more bolt in higher hp motor into a police car.


With respect to the stock fit of a 4.6L DOHC in a Marauder, find one close to you, and go over it yourself? Measure the position of the engine as it sits in the saddle. Measure the transmission angles and drive shaft stuff too. None of it is square, straight, or, centered, and this isn't new. My car was measured and indexed by a professional race car builder back in '03 when Zack and I were developing control arms, not a straight line in the car until you reach the driveshaft, and even that is off the centerline.

That may be true, and many factory vehicles are far from squarely built, but I don't see what this has to do with anything? We're not talking about building a ground up race car, we're talking about doing an engine swap with two motors of the same family. Nothing changes axis wise.


Again, no disrespect to your accomplishments or talent, Sal, but your panther "Mad Max" conversion and a Marauder with a 4V DOHC 5.4L are apples and oranges.

True that there is definitely a difference between a 5.4 SOHC in a pre03 Panther and a 5.4 DOHC in an 03up Panther. But really, it's not that different. If anything, doing it in an 03-up car is easier, with the updated front end.

I really don't see what the big deal is. Maybe the heater box needs modifying. Maybe the exhaust has to be relocated. Maybe some other stuff is in the way. I still don't see the big deal. There's no reason it won't fit the chassis or the body. It's just the bolt on stuff that may need altering.

I realize that you may have looked into it. I realize that you may have had reputable people working with you on it. I realize that you concluded it can't be done. And this is no disrespect towards yourself, but I don't believe that just because a few people say something can't be done, that it really can't be done. There are lots of people out there aside from yourself and your shops you've dealt with, that may look at things different, have different ways of doing things, or have better abilities and/or experiance.

Everyone told me I couldn't put a 5.4 in my car too. I did it in 2 days. It wasn't hard. I don't believe doing a 5.4 DOHC in a Marauder is hard either. But my definition of "hard" may be different than other peoples. I have been stuffing big motors into cars they should never go into, for many years.

[LVMarauder]

...... Snap. I dont know **** about what yuou guys are talking about , but Power Surge did do the conversion. I think that settles it.

[SergntMac]

C'mon, Sal, screw your ears back on and read my post again? You have taken almost everything I have posted and turned it around...Why?

Okay, okay...Uncle! You 100 percent dead on right here Sal, my humble apologies.

Let's remember that the 5.4L DOHC is 1.25" wider at the valve covers, and that's 1" of clearance not available on a Marauder.

I never said the 4.6-5.4 DOHC swap "can't be done", find those word for me, eh? We both know money and time solves every problem. I also did not say Ford was "obliged" to do anything, but Ford will consider doing anything if the right money is in the right market/mod.

I did highlight why it's a big waste of time, and prolly why Ford isn't going to bother.

a) MPG for fleet vehicles...While the cops would love the power, municipal budgets and the EPA would hate the MPG, and you know what the cops are going to do with that bigger engine, right? The same thing we do...Run it.

b) Imagination of improved truck/SUV sales for the larger engine..."Don't sell them a fast car, sell them a bigger SUV!" which has become the case, with all of the "big three". That, combined with the cost of re-engineering spells "no market". Even the extended frame CV/PI isn't moving that well, 'cause prisoner transporting duty has shifted to alternate vehicles. Cops are driving more trucks/SUVs than ever before and why? Market and marketing.

Let's go back to the swap...Talk about stock engines...You get a few more cubes and some more low end torque from a stock 5.4 over a stock 4.6. But what this swap will cost you in added weight and fitment issues, makes it all a waste of time. Besides, there are more custom mods for the 4.6L DOHC than the 5.4L DOHC, thanks to the Mustang crowd. True, 5.4L mods are rising, but the engine is still not as flexible at the 4.6L, and the money you save sweating the swap, can build a real sweet 4.6L hot rod.

We can continue dreaming of what could be, but once in a while, a reality check is in order.

-30- I'm done with this discussion.

[Power Surge]

Hrrmmm.... I didn't think I took anything out of text, seemed pretty clear to me, but my apologies if I was mistaken.

[SergntMac]

...... Snap. I dont know **** about what yuou guys are talking about , but Power Surge did do the conversion. I think that settles it.No...Sal put a 2V 5.4L SOHC engine in a pre-'03 panther, and I admire that greatly. But, he did not install a 5.4L DOHC in a post '03 panther, and there are many obstacles to overcome in that swap.

Bottom line, buy a blower, it's cheaper and quicker.

[88LTDCV351]

A performance 5.4 L would have been sweet. Would have given my Marauder more bragging rights over the Crown Vics/Grand Marqs. Maybe not make me so jealous of those 6.1 L Hemi Dodge Charger SRT8's around. There are tons of them driving out here in Cali.

[Tom Doan]

A DOHC 5.4 will not fit in a '03 panther car, ask me how I know, I used a SVT engineer that made one off race cars and trucks for the off road race team at Ford. His name is Jim D'Amore and he is the tops at fabbing custom Fords. I spent 35k in research and delvelopment and setteled to have the first '03 Cobra 4.6 Ford stock crate motor in a Marauder that did not need to cut the frame or touch the ABS system. Cutting or moving ether are a no no with Ford. It was a PITA,, If I could have just made some new motor mounts or suspention mods I would have, I have no problem tearing stuff up and making cars the way I want, but if you want to pass inspection in The Peoples Republic of Maryland it had better be "factory", the rule book is up to 9 pages now. I could have moved the top of the fire wall, cut up the hood, designed a whole new windshield wiper system, changed the heat/ac system on the inside of the car, but trying to keep things looking "factory" was going to take more than even I was willing to do. I know the jokes on me about a fool and his money, but I'll go make some more. If you can do it, more power to you and I'll be the first to pray your way, no flames here. The vendors on this site are experts at going fast for the least amount of money and effort, listen to them.
On a different note, wait till you see the dual side exhaust with both tips popping out on the right side of the car in front of the rear tire that I welded up today, I was board today. No it dosn't sound like a Cup car, its DOHC not a push rod motor, just something to piss off the Chevy toads in the 'hood. Tom.

[Power Surge]

A DOHC 5.4 will not fit in a '03 panther car, ask me how I know, I used a SVT engineer that made one off race cars and trucks for the off road race team at Ford. His name is Jim D'Amore and he is the tops at fabbing custom Fords.

Wow. I laughed so hard at that, Pepsi came out my nose.

[O's Fan Rich]

Wow. I laughed so hard at that, Pepsi came out my nose.

Don't laugh until you've really talked to Tom....

[Power Surge]

Don't laugh until you've really talked to Tom....

I have no doubt Tom has done what he said. I was just laughing at what I quoted.

[OneBADLsE]

a) MPG for fleet vehicles...While the cops would love the power, municipal budgets and the EPA would hate the MPG, and you know what the cops are going to do with that bigger engine, right? The same thing we do...Run it.


Not true. Theyre resorting to the dodge charger which BTW gets about 9mpg on the street. FORGET ABOUT THE IDLING! IT probably manages a little over 4 or 5 mpg. THey wanted more power. Beides, Ford didnt know if they wanted to continue building them, so the PCTS went elsewhere.

[SergntMac]

A performance 5.4 L would have been sweet. Would have given my Marauder more bragging rights over the Crown Vics/Grand Marqs. Maybe not make me so jealous of those 6.1 L Hemi Dodge Charger SRT8's around. There are tons of them driving out here in Cali.Gee...All this time I've been having too much fun kicking their sorry azzes with a tiny 281 CID "mouse motor" of mine. Got to love it.

"Bigger" is not always "better", my friend, but "fastest" rules.

IMHO...

[RoyLPita]

:popcorn::popcorn:

[bryanthomas]

Geez guys, I didn't mean to start an argument over these things! :D Chill out, I was only speculating!

[OneBADLsE]

Geez guys, I didn't mean to start an argument over these things! :D Chill out, I was only speculating!


its cool. Let them continue.... its fun to watch a Pro SVT member debate :cool4:

[RoyLPita]

I wouldn't mind trying this out on a '03&up platform just for S's&G's.

[96DiamondVIII]

back when i had my cvpi i saw pics of a black panther with the v-10 truck swap. now thats stepping it up a notch, BAM!!

At one point I had heard that Ford was offering the V-10 in the long wheelbase "livery" Crown Vics for taxi and police duty. Did that never materialize?

[RR|Suki]

A DOHC 5.4 will not fit in a '03 panther car, ask me how I know, I used a SVT engineer that made one off race cars and trucks for the off road race team at Ford. His name is Jim D'Amore and he is the tops at fabbing custom Fords. I spent 35k in research and delvelopment and setteled to have the first '03 Cobra 4.6 Ford stock crate motor in a Marauder that did not need to cut the frame or touch the ABS system. Cutting or moving ether are a no no with Ford. It was a PITA,, If I could have just made some new motor mounts or suspention mods I would have, I have no problem tearing stuff up and making cars the way I want, but if you want to pass inspection in The Peoples Republic of Maryland it had better be "factory", the rule book is up to 9 pages now. I could have moved the top of the fire wall, cut up the hood, designed a whole new windshield wiper system, changed the heat/ac system on the inside of the car, but trying to keep things looking "factory" was going to take more than even I was willing to do. I know the jokes on me about a fool and his money, but I'll go make some more. If you can do it, more power to you and I'll be the first to pray your way, no flames here. The vendors on this site are experts at going fast for the least amount of money and effort, listen to them.
On a different note, wait till you see the dual side exhaust with both tips popping out on the right side of the car in front of the rear tire that I welded up today, I was board today. No it dosn't sound like a Cup car, its DOHC not a push rod motor, just something to piss off the Chevy toads in the 'hood. Tom.

I would like to see pics of side exhaust, I have sat in bed thinking of this a couple times, and I wasn't sure if it would look stupid

[Marauder2005]

Gee...All this time I've been having too much fun kicking their sorry azzes with a tiny 281 CID "mouse motor" of mine. Got to love it.

"Bigger" is not always "better", my friend, but "fastest" rules.

IMHO...

The SRT8 has a 425hp motor. Throw a blower on that. Then what? :eek:

We need the 427 Cobra-Jet again!

[Tom Doan]

O the side pipes look strange they do, now everyone looks at the car when I pull up at a light, they look down, see the pipes and make a face at me, an aquiered taste. I make up exhaust systems on a whim and change them at will. These came out louder than I want and I have been making different baffels for them. They are lower than I wanted but I have been hunting all the seed bumps in my area and have not rubbed yet, Sunday at Church of the Holy Donut a hot rod Chevy had a set lower than mine and he said he has not sc***** ether, so I will see. The Edelbrock mufflers liked a longer pipe out the back, to sound deeper. The low amount of back pressure makes the blower spin up faster and the car coast easyer. I have a set of allmost new Aero Turbine mufflers for sale now, look them up on the web for more info and they really worked well just as advertized but to me the sound below 2k rpm was unrefined and that is where I spend the most time. I have pics to post but need some directions to get them from Picassa to this web site. Tom