Open Letter to Admin.

[Smokie]

First let me say thank you again for keeping the lights on, MM.net is home for me and when I come from work I hang out with my friends and relax.

Lately there has been very little relaxing and I have noticed that deletions and closed threads are at an all time high, bad feelings are at an all time high, insults are at an all time high and CENSORSHIP is just way out of control.

Censorship and bannings will increase the anger and make the problem worse, the freedom to express your thoughts is KEY to the success of our forum. With FREEDOM comes RESPONSIBILITY, the angry ones cannot expect to personally insult members of ADMIN either here or at another forum and EXPECT that insults will make anything better.

To ADMIN I suggest that you choose to moderate for the time been a more neutral person, I also suggest that you create a forum dedicated to discussing the present problem and any future problems and the only reason for a deletion would be profanity, not a difference of opinion.


To the angry, wounded and banned. Calling someone profane or derogatory names either here or at alternate sites without offering an actual solution to the problem solves nothing; it just makes everything worse...kinda like inciting a riot...understand?

If anyone is wondering; Javier "what side are you taking" let get this STRAIGHT I am on the side of the MEMBERSHIP of MM.net I have very good friends on both sides of this mess and I just plain feel sick that I should have to choose. By the way I will choose; so read this carefully:

I AM AGAINST CENSORSHIP

Main Entry: <SUP>2</SUP>censor
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): cen·sored; cen·sor·ing http://www.merriam-webster.com/images/audio.gif (http://javascript<b></b>:popWin('/cgi-bin/audio.pl?censor03.wav=censorin g')) /<TT>'sen(t)-s&-ri[ng], 'sen(t)s-ri[ng]</TT>/
: to examine in order to suppress or delete anything considered objectionable <CENSOR news the>; also : to suppress or delete as objectionable

I AM IN FAVOR OF MODERATION

Main Entry: <SUP>2</SUP>mod·er·ate http://www.merriam-webster.com/images/audio.gif (http://javascript<b></b>:popWin('/cgi-bin/audio.pl?modera02.wav=moderate '))
Pronunciation: <TT>'mä-d&-"rAt</TT>
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): -at·ed; -at·ing
transitive verb
1 : to lessen the intensity or extremeness of <THE the chill moderated sun>
2 : to preside over or act as chairman of
intransitive verb
1 : to act as a moderator (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary-tb/moderator)
2 : to become less violent, severe, or intense <THE moderate to began wind>

I AM AGAINST PERSONAL INSULTS

I AM ON THE SIDE OF MERCURYMARAUDERS.NET BEING THE BEST PLACE FOR MARAUDER LOVERS TO HANG OUT AND MAKE LIFETIME FRIENDSHIPS.

Now you know. Javier.

[Hotrauder]

As always Javier, spot on. THANK YOU. Dennis

[KillJoy]

To ADMIN I suggest that you choose to moderate for the time been a more neutral person

I have mentioned this to several before, and I still believe this is a GOOD idea.

:help:

KillJoy

[gpfarrell]

Well put.

I had posts deleted for the first time just the day before yesterday. Nothing obscene, nothing political. Actually, I was supporting one of our best vendors.

If what I'm adding is worthless let the membership see that my thoughts aren't worth 2 cents. I think I can handle the humiliation.

But if we can't have differing opinions here than there is nothing left to discuss.

I too am in favor of MM.net being the best place for Marauder owners to hang out.

We needn't fear those who leave the site slamming the door behind them... we're better off without those eager to dish anything out in hopes of stirring something up.

We need to fear those that drift away quietly... that will turn this site into a ghost town.

[ckadiddle]

I have been mostly skipping over the drama posts and ignoring the supposed situation. Now it's my turn ro be dramatic!! I really don't see anything abnormal going on here. This is normal stuff, folks. Users are getting used to the new owners and new admins. Some will get mad and leave, some will stay, some will get banned. This goes on all over the web every day. It's not new to me. I will be here as long as mm.net exists in any form. This site is a group of friends willing to help and advise me on ANY subject I might ask about. I ENJOY this site BECAUSE of heavy moderation. Keep it up!! I am pretty sure we all agreed to Terms Of Service that said we have to "play nice or get kicked out" when we signed up for membership. That is NORMAL for ANY web site or internet provider that has anything of value to me.

We now have a committee in charge instead of a benevolent dictator. This should be interesting! :)

[MarauderTJA]

There is some merit in what you say Javier. BUT when you see continual bashing, insults and some of the :bs:that is going on at the other site, I am having no problem in what the admin here is doing. A lot of two-faced people here bash people here and over there, playing both sides of the coin. I guess that is what they enjoy.

For example, we finally have a level playing field with S/C's. Never before did this exist here. A year ago if you mentioned anything, or even had a question on a different type of blower you got deleted or given a vacation.
This is just one example of the positive things that have changed here.

People have put their hearts and souls in the bettering of Marauders are here as well as over there. Put this petty stuff behind and lets continue to enjoy ourselves. Just like at Mv IV. That in my opinion is the only reason this is going on. Personality differences is the route cause here. Keep it simple, make a choice if you don't like it here, go over there.

[prchrman]

Nice post Javier...you are truly one of, if not the nicest persons I have meet through the site...meeting you again at MVIV only confirmed this once again...you do carry weight IMNSHO...I have stayed away from posting about any of this because of rubbing someone the wrong way and making enemies...but...this started a long time ago some how some way that I am do not know the story on because I refuse to get involved in stuff like this camp and that camp and my people and your people...just does not work for me...I knew some were mad when it sold because certain persons were now owners and said owners have had previous conflicts with some members so I guess it was just a matter of time before there was a big boom...I have meet great people and I like them very much but I have little in common with most on here outside of the fondness for the Mercury Marauder and being old :smile:...so it is about the car and cars come with people who have different backgrounds and differing opinions...it is going to happen...I thought the mean spiritedness would subside on here and it has some...but...I believe some are shooting MM net in the foot...ADMINS please take Javier's post to heart because I do think he has some valid points and good suggestions...and I know he is not going to do or say anything to hurt this site...willie, a oldtimer looking from the outside

[CRUZTAKER]

To ADMIN I suggest that you choose to moderate for the time been a more neutral person....

:baaa:

If you suggest it long enough.

Perhaps they'll listen.

:dunno:

I know why it hasn't happened to this point. ;)

[MarauderTJA]

Javier, having known you for quite some time and as much as I try to keep emotion out of anything, there are certain people that like to push issues (as per my PM). But personally knowing you, I hope you don't mind me suggesting you be that person. Your heart is in the place that counts.:beer:

[dwasson]

To ADMIN I suggest that you choose to moderate for the time been a more [B]neutral person, I also suggest that you create a forum dedicated to discussing the present problem and any future problems and the only reason for a deletion would be profanity, not a difference of opinion.


That defeats the reason some peaple wanted to buy MM.NET in the first place. Why would some of them want to spend the money and not get to throw their weight around?

[shakes_26]

That defeats the reason some peaple wanted to buy MM.NET in the first place. Why would some of them want to spend the money and not get to throw their weight around?

Well that and extorting large sums of money :D

[bigslim]

There is some merit in what you say Javier. BUT when you see continual bashing, insults and some of the :bs:that is going on at the other site, I am having no problem in what the admin here is doing. A lot of two-faced people here bash people here and over there, playing both sides of the coin. I guess that is what they enjoy.

For example, we finally have a level playing field with S/C's. Never before did this exist here. A year ago if you mentioned anything, or even had a question on a different type of blower you got deleted or given a vacation.
This is just one example of the positive things that have changed here.

People have put their hearts and souls in the bettering of Marauders are here as well as over there. Put this petty stuff behind and lets continue to enjoy ourselves. Just like at Mv IV. That in my opinion is the only reason this is going on. Personality differences is the route cause here. Keep it simple, make a choice if you don't like it here, go over there.
Some people like the feeling of being able to express themselves and not having the fear of being banned. There is no BS as you state, just nice people getting along.

Also, most that you consider two-faced have had the same feelings and let it be known for a long, long time.

[Tallboy]

There is some merit in what you say Javier. BUT when you see continual bashing, insults and some of the :bs:that is going on at the other site, I am having no problem in what the admin here is doing. A lot of two-faced people here bash people here and over there, playing both sides of the coin. I guess that is what they enjoy.

For example, we finally have a level playing field with S/C's. Never before did this exist here. A year ago if you mentioned anything, or even had a question on a different type of blower you got deleted or given a vacation.
This is just one example of the positive things that have changed here.

People have put their hearts and souls in the bettering of Marauders are here as well as over there. Put this petty stuff behind and lets continue to enjoy ourselves. Just like at Mv IV. That in my opinion is the only reason this is going on. Personality differences is the route cause here. Keep it simple, make a choice if you don't like it here, go over there.

Not even close to true. One year ago, [just like today] FIT, Reinhart, and Trilogy had their own forums where questions could be asked and answered. Remember, it was Logan that gave FIT a voice and forum here. If what you say is true, that never would have happened.

[Zack]

The same people who have started a new website to get away from the nonsense they dont care for are the same ones who still log in here just as much as over there.
Make up your mind where you want to be and stick to it.

[AstroVic]

We now have a committee in charge instead of a benevolent dictator. This should be interesting! :)

Did you mean benevolent or malevolent?

[dwasson]

The same people who have started a new website to get away from the nonsense they dont care for are the same ones who still log in here just as much as over there.
Make up your mind where you want to be and stick to it.

I always get stuff like this confused. Are there any other websites that a good MM.NET member shouldn't visit? Would you provide a list for me?

[O's Fan Rich]

The same people who have started a new website to get away from the nonsense they dont care for are the same ones who still log in here just as much as over there.
Make up your mind where you want to be and stick to it.

Why?
That's not even close to being a way to solve the real issues. The "other site" has been up for a long time. It's just become more prominent since some of the issues have been raised.
And if I recall correctly, some from this site, who tend to be more supported then others have gone over to www.motorcitymarauders.com and posted some things to stir it up some more, just when things were settling down. Right?

[Zack]

Why?
That's not even close to being a way to solve the real issues. The "other site" has been up for a long time. It's just become more prominent since some of the issues have been raised.
And if I recall correctly, some from this site, who tend to be more supported then others have gone over to www.motorcitymarauders.com and posted some things to stir it up some more, just when things were settling down. Right?

You mean this post?
http://www.motorcitymarauders.com/forums/showthread.php?t=545

What is untrue about it? Im listening :D

[GA-Marauder]

The same people who have started a new website to get away from the nonsense they dont care for are the same ones who still log in here just as much as over there.
Make up your mind where you want to be and stick to it.

Sorry dude, I like both sites, and I'll visit both of them on a daily basis.:D If you believe your quote, then do what you say.:cool:

[Smokie]

I would like to ask those that continue to post on this thread for a personal favor, when you post: is your intent to improve, suggest improvement, make better, calm tensions??? What is in your heart?

If you read my opening statement and came away thinking I am trying to start a war...you simply don't know me. I advocate civility, reason and mutual respect.

I write here exactly as I speak to any of you in front of your face...whatever I write in any other forum can be imported here and recognized as being ME. If you want to help make things better here...stick around and HELP. If you hate this place: all I can say is, I don't go places that I hate.

PS: This is not about any other site, this is about MM.net and only MM.net.

[O's Fan Rich]

You mean this post?
http://www.motorcitymarauders.com/forums/showthread.php?t=545

What is untrue about it? Im listening :D

yeah, that post.
My point is that posting that there was meant to stir it up, nothing more.
If that's what is decided by the Admin there, that's what they decide. Isn't that what's being done here at MM.net?
As members we can decide to assist in getting things back to normal, or we can fuel the fire.
Unfortunately it's looking more and more like there are some who can fuel the fires on both and suffer no consequences, while others seem to get their hands smacked for the smallest perceived infraction.
As individual members we need to decide to say enough is enough. Untrue? I'm listening.

[Dennis Reinhart]

I have been mostly skipping over the drama posts and ignoring the supposed situation. Now it's my turn ro be dramatic!! I really don't see anything abnormal going on here. This is normal stuff, folks. Users are getting used to the new owners and new admins. Some will get mad and leave, some will stay, some will get banned. This goes on all over the web every day. It's not new to me. I will be here as long as mm.net exists in any form. This site is a group of friends willing to help and advise me on ANY subject I might ask about. I ENJOY this site BECAUSE of heavy moderation. Keep it up!! I am pretty sure we all agreed to Terms Of Service that said we have to "play nice or get kicked out" when we signed up for membership. That is NORMAL for ANY web site or internet provider that has anything of value to me.

We now have a committee in charge instead of a benevolent dictator. This should be interesting! :)


The reason why we have the site we have today is because Logan was a very good moderator, he did not allow someone to post nude pictures. He did not allow name calling, or bickering he encouraged technical posts and this site is full of them. Members here knew what Logon would do if they crossed the line, no one can deny this, yes there has been a lot of moderation in the last 30 days, its been up and down just like an Air Fuel graph with a car on the dyno, when you have this you go in and see what its going to take to smooth the trace out, all I am asking is give the owners a chance to do this. Yes, some of the moderation was needed because of the nature of the comments, have the members here forgot what happened last year when we had the Dark side, well I have not, go take a look at other sites that do not moderate, there is off topic comments about every thing, very few technical posts. Personal attacks. This is the best most informative site on the net, and it will get better.

[DEFYANT]

Another "heads up" thread to the Admin. Good luck Javier. Your sentiments echo mine in these threads:

Owed Nothing (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=31043&highlight=owed)

So long Logan, I'd like my fish back (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=31303&highlight=owed)

But every time I tried to point out the obvious, it would fall on deaf ears. It is hard to truely be neutral when you've been on one side for so long, eh?

I do know one thing. Under Logan, if you took the tone with Dennis R. that was taken with Jerry, you'd get a vacation for sure.

Remember this:

Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by tmac1337 http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/images/bgold/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?p=446677#post44 6677)
I believe I brought up this IAT topic well over a year ago and was given a vacation for it...

It is good to see that this site is now very reasonable and people can discuss the topic, acquire some knowledge, without getting a boot in the butt!

Of course I was also given a vacation when I asked what the spark advance was...


</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Macs reaponse:
That was "then", Tim, this is now.

Please enjoy our new hospitality and refreshed tolerance, but with some new respect too?

Thanks, and IMHO, I hope to hear more from you as well.

Basically this says what was off limits before is now fair game. So have at it - and more.

Go back and read the tread, there was little "new respect", but no vacations handed out.

Point is, there has been a fundemental shift in power here at MM.Net. And it seems the dominant members of the new owners are free to do as they please to whomever they please.

That is just the way it is.

The result seems to be more and more members starting new memberships on other web sites. Some leaving for good. (see the Owed Nothing thread)

More and more members will end up hanging out over there, and coming here to research tech on the car. Eventally, you'll see more and more tech on the other site. Then there will be no need to come back here.

Eventual worst case is a web site with its moderators and thier sycophants.
<!-- / message -->

[DEFYANT]

I would like to ask those that continue to post on this thread for a personal favor, when you post: is your intent to improve, suggest improvement, make better, calm tensions??? What is in your heart?

If you read my opening statement and came away thinking I am trying to start a war...you simply don't know me. I advocate civility, reason and mutual respect.

I write here exactly as I speak to any of you in front of your face...whatever I write in any other forum can be imported here and recognized as being ME. If you want to help make things better here...stick around and HELP. If you hate this place: all I can say is, I don't go places that I hate.

PS: This is not about any other site, this is about MM.net and only MM.net.

+1

.........

[magindat]

I would like to ask those that continue to post on this thread for a personal favor, when you post: is your intent to improve, suggest improvement, make better, calm tensions??? What is in your heart?


Thanx Javier.
My intent in this post is to calm.
MM.net is becoming what it's becoming. For each of us, some of the changes will be positive, some negative, some indifferent.

Just like when we were kids, different playgrounds have different rules. You play by the rules or get kicked off the playground. Don't like the rules? Find a different playground. Don't stand at the fence of the playground you don't want to play on and shout at the other kids.

For me:
This sight is the public playground. It's the one where you have to accept all the kids that play here and bullies get kicked off.

There are other playgrounds on the net that are more like the neighbor's backyard skateboard ramp. Sure, you can be more raucus, but you have to be more ready to get your nose bloodied!

Those that know me know I'm a sarcastic, cynical joker with big opinions and plenty knowledge to back it up. Some get it. Some don't. At the end of the day, though, I try to address my FRIENDS in a way that is COMFORTABLE to them. Once in a while, I step over a line. Just shake hands, and keep goin.

In summary. This place is what it is. I like it for what it is and I like other places for what they are. There will always be playgrounds to play on, our new admins are just wrapping the metal poles with padding around here.

FWIW
Rich

[Zack]

Instead of being interested in my question to Jerry, you chose to take my tone as insulting toward him.
Like usual, y'all went into 'bodyguard mode' trying to help Jerry dodge the bullets.
The bullets were questions Im still waiting for an answer to, and eagerly await.
Remember, Im a customer now. Please dont portray me as a predator.
Im just trying to understand whats under MY hood now.

[MarauderTJA]

Not even close to true. One year ago, [just like today] FIT, Reinhart, and Trilogy had their own forums where questions could be asked and answered. Remember, it was Logan that gave FIT a voice and forum here. If what you say is true, that never would have happened.

Only after Greg became a vendor with F.I.T. did that occur.

[MarauderTJA]

Well that and extorting large sums of money :D

Totally untrue. The MV IV planning committee came to a group decision to give a portion of left over remaining proceeds to MM.NET to assist with keeping the website up and running. A check was presented at the farewell breakfast to Mary and Dennis.

[MarauderTJA]

Some people like the feeling of being able to express themselves and not having the fear of being banned. There is no BS as you state, just nice people getting along.

Also, most that you consider two-faced have had the same feelings and let it be known for a long, long time.

Expressing yourself is not a problem except when it comes to throwing personal insults and trashing another member(s). What purpose does it really serve on the site(s? All that happens is friends ban together and it gets worse.

And I agree, "certain two-faced individuals have let it be known for a long, long time."

[MarauderTJA]

Like usual, y'all went into 'bodyguard mode'

That has been a real problem with certain people. However, just a select few. Try to understand that from a Procharger position a year ago. Talk about the red-headed step child syndrome around here. You walk up to a fellow members house during an install with lots of members present and the garage goes silent. Talk about feeling not welcomed. I laughed it off. But in time we were accepted by most.

[bigslim]

The same people who have started a new website to get away from the nonsense they dont care for are the same ones who still log in here just as much as over there.
Make up your mind where you want to be and stick to it.
I am free to go where I please. I am a contributing member at a few sites. BTW, the site was not started for the reason you stated. It was started as a local club website. It has grown into the site it is today.

[bigslim]

You mean this post?
http://www.motorcitymarauders.com/forums/showthread.php?t=545

What is untrue about it? Im listening :D
This is his style. Throw a grenade in a room, close the door and walk away. Classic Zack.

[Zack]

This is his style. Throw a grenade in a room, close the door and walk away. Classic Zack.

Sure is!
Im not usually wrong in what I make obvious to the blind either.

[bigslim]

The reason why we have the site we have today is because Logan was a very good moderator, he did not allow someone to post nude pictures. He did not allow name calling, or bickering he encouraged technical posts and this site is full of them. Members here knew what Logon would do if they crossed the line, no one can deny this, yes there has been a lot of moderation in the last 30 days, its been up and down just like an Air Fuel graph with a car on the dyno, when you have this you go in and see what its going to take to smooth the trace out, all I am asking is give the owners a chance to do this. Yes, some of the moderation was needed because of the nature of the comments, have the members here forgot what happened last year when we had the Dark side, well I have not, go take a look at other sites that do not moderate, there is off topic comments about every thing, very few technical posts. Personal attacks. This is the best most informative site on the net, and it will get better.
First off there are no nude pictures on that other site.

Second, there is a more relaxed feeling at that other site.

Third since you brought him up, Logan would never had have a Vendor become an owner with buttons to push. I remember the Darkside and I remember a certain vendor calling it quits because his feelings were hurt. I remember that vendor being the only vendor being bashed then.

Fourth and final, the other site is not there to replace any other site. It is there for good people to hangout and have fun while adoring the same vehicle that brought us all together.

[bigslim]

Instead of being interested in my question to Jerry, you chose to take my tone as insulting toward him.
Like usual, y'all went into 'bodyguard mode' trying to help Jerry dodge the bullets.
The bullets were questions Im still waiting for an answer to, and eagerly await.
Remember, Im a customer now. Please dont portray me as a predator.
Im just trying to understand whats under MY hood now.

Oh, feel sorry for Zack. He meant no harm...........:rolleyes:

[bigslim]

That has been a real problem with certain people. However, just a select few. Try to understand that from a Procharger position a year ago. Talk about the red-headed step child syndrome around here. You walk up to a fellow members house during an install with lots of members present and the garage goes silent. Talk about feeling not welcomed. I laughed it off. But in time we were accepted by most.
I don't think owning a different supercharger had anything to do with people going quite.

Some of us have been stating all along that the other products were good. I have said all along that I like JD's car. I consider JD a good friend. He has a different product so I guess there is no truth in that statement. If people get quite when you come around I don't think it is because of the type of blower you have.

[DefyantExWife]

Maybe this site would do better if it became a mandatory paid membership, everyone being co-owner, but then having board administrative election. Like... I think Mary would be the most favorable choice, board wide. I think everyone would be happy with that.

Take the forum price tag, whatever it was 4000 or 8000, divvy it up between the rounded up figure of members. New members coming in, their money would go into the site "Kitty" for future expenses or events.

With most members already being contributing members, there SHOULD be more forum issue voting going on. Most are paying into this site, they should have voices.. they should have say.

I think that would solve all the animosity and catty-ness we see here since Logan left.

[MERCMAN]

First let me say thank you again for keeping the lights on, MM.net is home for me and when I come from work I hang out with my friends and relax.

Lately there has been very little relaxing and I have noticed that deletions and closed threads are at an all time high, bad feelings are at an all time high, insults are at an all time high

Some of the posts in this thread are GREAT examples of why the deletions are up

[Tallboy]

I don't think owning a different supercharger had anything to do with people going quite.

Some of us have been stating all along that the other products were good. I have said all along that I like JD's car. I consider JD a good friend. He has a different product so I guess there is no truth in that statement. If people get quite when you come around I don't think it is because of the type of blower you have.

You're right, Darryl. It has to do with the character of the people involved, not the blower.

[Dennis Reinhart]

Slim I never said there were nude pictures on the other site, that is you, twisting my words, along with your personal attacks on me now what does this have to with Javier's post nothing, its just you trying to add more discontent. Just like your need to post back to back redundant posts. This is not constructive criticism its just criticism. I said nude pictures would not be allowed here because some one tried to post hem here, again this thread will spin off into a camp fire, because all you want to is argue and point fingers instead of thinking of ways we can improve the site. And some members have already, no matter what any one says to try and make things better, you will not hear it. I am done with this post, I have said what I needed to say, you will try and twist my words, I will tell you what I know for a fact, you can not win arguments on the Internet, I also have found you cannot reason with unreasonable people, and I am not saying you are. I am just speaking from my heart as to what I know and what I have learned.

[GAMike]

Originally Posted by Zack http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?p=447665#post44 7665)
Instead of being interested in my question to Jerry, you chose to take my tone as insulting toward him. Like usual, y'all went into 'bodyguard mode' trying to help Jerry dodge the bullets. The bullets were questions Im still waiting for an answer to, and eagerly await. Remember, Im a customer now. Please dont portray me as a predator.
Im just trying to understand whats under MY hood now.

I only know about Zack from his posts....... Never met the guy. I met Jerry Barnes at the Heavyweight Shootout, after hearing about him and his products from other members for some time.

I came away with from the event/meeting really enthusiastic about wht can be done to my car. Why? because of all the people at this event running Trilogy's, and Jerry himself. Jerry was approachable, had no ego whatsoever and was extremely gracious, even while dealing with his own misfortune with Trilogy 1.

This is the lesson I would suggest to you Zack. It does you no good to try and swap swords with a person of Jerry's reputation. If he is where you want to be someday, learn how he got there then emulate. Going the discredit and eliminate root here will only expose your real motives further.

As for MCM.net another community with a flavor all its own. That is until you came along with that:bs: thread.
"We was just having a drink, and then you came in all acting like a bigshot...

~"Now go get your shine box"~!

Is that what you were hoping for?

[MarauderTJA]

You're right, Darryl. It has to do with the "character"of the people involved, not the blower.

Exactly!

Character "the mental and moral qualities distinctive to an individual." *strength and orginality in a persons nature. * the quality of being individual, typically in an interesting or unusal way. Finally, a persons good reputation: to what do I owe this attack on my character?

[Zack]

I came away with from the event/meeting really enthusiastic about wht can be done to my car. Why? because of all the people at this event running Trilogy's, and Jerry himself. Jerry was approachable, had no ego whatsoever and was extremely gracious, even while dealing with his own misfortune with Trilogy 1.

I know what an be done to Marauders as well, Ive owned every kit but the FIT!

Im approachable and gracious as well. Do you want to meet me too?
Whats your point?

[GAMike]

My point is that you come off like a dope.

Not like the class act that Jerry is. maybe I am wrong.... I hope I am.... But coming on MCM.net and stirring the pot like you did was something that a person of Jerry's stature would never do.

[KillJoy]

Not to change the subject or anything but.....

IF the 9 (now 8) had not purchased the site, and YOU did, what would you have done differently?

If you were in their position now, how would you resolve the current situation?

KillJoy

PS - This BS has GOT to end at somepoint, or this forum is going to go NOWHERE!!!

[shakes_26]

What the hell are you talking about Tom? I was referring to the vendor fees I was asked to pay, since they were (as I felt) grossly out of line with a hobbyist level as I was.

But I'm glad to see you and the planning committee were able to provide support back to the site and its members. Hopefully it will be used to host further events.

I might add I hadn't seen any thank you's to the SSM MV4 organizers regarding the donation. Maybe why I missed it


Totally untrue. The MV IV planning committee came to a group decision to give a portion of left over remaining proceeds to MM.NET to assist with keeping the website up and running. A check was presented at the farewell breakfast to Mary and Dennis.

[Tallboy]

What the hell are you talking about Tom? I was referring to the vendor fees I was asked to pay, since they were (as I felt) grossly out of line with a hobbyist level as I was.

But I'm glad to see you and the planning committee were able to provide support back to the site and its members. Hopefully it will be used to host further events.

I might add I hadn't seen any thank you's to the SSM MV4 organizers regarding the donation. Maybe why I missed it


Ignore him, Marc. He's been doing a lot of talking about a lot of people without knowing the facts.

[Power Surge]

I have my feelings on this site and how it's been run since Logan left, but I don't see anything productive out of voicing them.

However, one thing that would be nice, is if the owners/admins/moderators all had something that identified them as that. I know there are supposed to be 9 people I think, but I only know who about 3-4 of them are.

[sailsmen]

The percentage of members that have been banded and posts deleted is low.

Many members have over 1,000 post and have never been banded or had a single post deleted.

I try to use the Rotary 4 Way Test, which I have posted before,;
"Of the things we think, say or do:

Is it the TRUTH?

Is it FAIR to all concerned?

Will it build GOODWILL and BETTER FRIENDSHIPS?

Will it be BENEFICIAL to all concerned?"

Live by it and you will go far in life.

All who know me know I am very out spoken. Point being you can still speak your peace w/out offending.

You cannot win an arguement or gain knowledge or have a relationship w/ some one if you insult them.

Everyone in this world has knowledge and skills that I do not. I can never see what another sees because I cannot occupy their space.

[MM03MOK]

What the hell are you talking about Tom? I was referring to the vendor fees I was asked to pay, since they were (as I felt) grossly out of line with a hobbyist level as I was.

But I'm glad to see you and the planning committee were able to provide support back to the site and its members. Hopefully it will be used to host further events.

I might add I hadn't seen any thank you's to the SSM MV4 organizers regarding the donation. Maybe why I missed itMarc - I approached you as a vendor since you were on Logan's vendor list, just as we approached all other vendors. I don't recall you telling me you thought the standard monthly fee was grossly out of line. Since that time, we have lowered our pricing, including prepaid discounting. Since you are a contributing member, we can certainly consider you a hobbyist. You just had to say so.

Also - here is the post in which I thanked the talented MVIV Planning Team and also thanked them for their generous donation to this website. This money will be used as seed money for upcoming raffles. Please stay tuned.

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?p=442838

[Wags]

Wow. I guess I've missed some stuff lately! I think I will wait for the movie to come out. I heard it was being called "Marauder Place", or "Valley of the Marauders", or maybe "As the Marauder Turns". Not to make light of it, but there are many more important things in life.

Just an observation...

Wags

PS - This post has no hidden meaning about anything, and implies nothing! (disclaimer)

[STLR FN]

snip... I will tell you what I know for a fact, you can not win arguments on the Internet, I also have found you cannot reason with unreasonable people, and I am not saying you are. I am just speaking from my heart as to what I know and what I have learned.
Smartest thing I've seen posted since the change of ownership.

[Jaa]

LILALLEYKATT made a post yesterday and politely asked Mac to not be so "OVERHANDED" when deleting post after post....It was done in a professional AND a non derogitory way....Then less than an hour later he is banned and the post deleted because he "personally attacked an owner" in which he did not.... STOP THE POLITICAL SENSORSHIP WE LIVE IN A FREE COUNTRY...This site is not geared twords 7 year olds we are adults .....

[Smokie]

I don't know about all of you but most of the animosities that exist between individuals here are the result of something that was typed and displayed on a computer screen...pretty far removed from real life.

Real life is a child being born, losing a father, a serious illness, getting married, divorced, loosing your job, getting a promotion....getting together with your friends knocking back a few, a caravan of 50 Marauders stopping six lanes of traffic on the Interstate.

We seem to be able to play together and even pray together, when one of us is down...really down, we pick him or her back up. No group of people other than family that I have ever been associated with is more helpful to each other than "our group".

Like real families we also fight like hell....so far it is in the "forgive and lets try a fresh start" area that we seem to be doing a lousy job. It seems totally unreal to me that people can't bring themselves to just say "let's put the harsh words behind us and try again" after all most of the bad stuff happened in cyberspace, not the real world.

[KillJoy]

I don't know about all of you but most of the animosities that exist between individuals here are the result of something that was typed and displayed on a computer screen...pretty far removed from real life.

Real life is a child being born, losing a father, a serious illness, getting married, divorced, loosing your job, getting a promotion....getting together with your friends knocking back a few, a caravan of 50 Marauders stopping six lanes of traffic on the Interstate.

We seem to be able to play together and even pray together, when one of us is down...really down, we pick him or her back up. No group of people other than family that I have ever been associated with is more helpful to each other than "our group".

Like real families we also fight like hell....so far it is in the "forgive and lets try a fresh start" area that we seem to be doing a lousy job. It seems totally unreal to me that people can't bring themselves to just say "let's put the harsh words behind us and try again" after all most of the bad stuff happened in cyberspace, not the real world.


Very, Very well said.

KillJoy

[greggash]

DING, DING, DING

That round of discussions is now over!

I don't usually post, but this thread is just ridiculous.

I feel the same way as Salismen:
Generally stated: If you don't have anything nice or constructive to say.....maybe you should just keep that ill-will to your self
in other words just don't say it!!!

I know, by meeting some of them, that some people are just sarcastic
and don't chime in unless there is a place to stick a blade/knife/sharp object...sometimes a tongue.


I will not point any fingers...thats not cool either.
But the pot stirrers know who they are, and should take a chill pill, because what you are doing is not productive and generally spoiling the water for the rest of us.!!

This is not a rant but a wake up call, if you act like a J**k here, how are you in the real world????? just give it a moment and think about it.

I have looked at the "other site", its a local site for them, with no real info of any usable kind....it was kind of barren of information, more of a post what you want site,.

So, if you are looking to BASH or be sarcastic....please go else where....yes, we may loose a few....but some of their opinions are tainted

I am done....rant off

Gregg

[merc406]

Open Letters suck..:banned: Let's get back to happy thoughts, maybe
a few here could use a few :beer: "s and some naked picture's...............:censo r:

[Jaa]

It is very well said, Smokie. But for people like me who are mostly interested in lurking and getting a little extra techno info or some pics that can maybe help future installations, some of the "moderation" is a little bit to much, considering the meaning of the word. Everybody who has a shop or can take pictures of their work to share isn't exactly counting on every member coming to them to have their work done. I, at least, can't afford to drag my car all over the nation to get everything done. What I can do, and what I assume many of these "vendors" know I can do, is look at their installations, pick up my own ideas about what I want to do, and then find a way to work it out locally.

I don't even have a Marauder. I've got a supercharged '05 Mustang. But I've been fortunate enough to meet a few of the guys who have posted here at different events. Some of those people have their own shops, and they work on Mustangs, not just Marauders. But rather than try to sell me on taking long trips to their shops, they've kindly provided me with a wealth of different information, KNOWING that I would try to duplicate part of their work through different sources. That's not selling me their product. That's just being very friendly.

So when I see helpful info being wiped out in what seems to be a pretty a pretty casual way, it takes a lot of the fun and purpose out of my visits. When I see discussions on the matter blown off the board...well, that does about the same way.

I figure I'm useless here for most of you, so if this disappears, well, ok. But let's be realistic. For the users here, this website was created to pass along knowledge and create building and recreational opportunities for like-minded individuals. When it gets to be all about opinions, money, and the power to regulate everything accordingly, then half the purpose eventually goes missing.

It would be kind of nice to see you guys settle down on all the restructuring and let the website kind of roll on it's own for a little while. After that, after people have a more positive idea of what's going on, then talk about the changes, rather than rushing in headlong and wiping everything out on a whim.

My two bits said. Now I'll go back to being extra quiet. :D

[MERCMAN]

LILALLEYKATT made a post yesterday and politely asked Mac to not be so "OVERHANDED" when deleting post after post....It was done in a professional AND a non derogitory way....Then less than an hour later he is banned and the post deleted because he "personally attacked an owner" in which he did not.... STOP THE POLITICAL SENSORSHIP WE LIVE IN A FREE COUNTRY...This site is not geared twords 7 year olds we are adults .....


You have no idea what you are talking about. You have ONE post and this is it??


Trolling is not welcome here, please leave the arguments to the professionals

[O's Fan Rich]

please leave the arguments to the professionals

The "experts" have been Trying to solve the Israeli / Palestinian thing for over 50 years now....:(

All this is gonna take to solve is someone willing to say
" I am sorry, I was wrong. Please forgive me."
Whether they think they are wrong or not. Even if they own a piece of Cyberspace... or not.
That's a tough one.

We all have a responsibility to not fuel the fire here or somewhere else, if possible.

"Thank goodness I contributed to this site, I feel my voice can now be heard!" See.... that is an example of fueling the fire, let's not do that!!!:flamer: :flamer: :flamer:

[maraudernkc]

Chuck, you are dead wrong and have no clue what you are talking about. I sent emails to Logan for almost 5 Months before Mary (Bunny) got me set up as a member. I never did get a proper vendor Introduction by Logan. He asked me to write up something about my company, which I did and it never got posted. Quit talking about things that you know nothing about.



Not even close to true. One year ago, [just like today] FIT, Reinhart, and Trilogy had their own forums where questions could be asked and answered.
Remember, it was Logan that gave FIT a voice and forum here. If what you say is true, that never would have happened.

[duhtroll]

I am sorry.

I was wrong.

Please forgive me.




(PleasemakeitgoawayPleasemakei tgoawayPleasemakeitgoawayPleas emakeitgoawayPleasemakeitgoawa yPleasemakeitgoawayPleasemakei tgoawayPleasemakeitgoawayPleas emakeitgoawayPleasemakeitgoawa yPleasemakeitgoawayPleasemakei tgoawayPleasemakeitgoawayPleas emakeitgoawayPleasemakeitgoawa yPleasemakeitgoawayPleasemakei tgoawayPleasemakeitgoawayPleas emakeitgoawayPleasemakeitgoawa yPleasemakeitgoawayPleasemakei tgoawayPleasemakeitgoawayPleas emakeitgoawayPleasemakeitgoawa yPleasemakeitgoawayPleasemakei tgoawayPleasemakeitgoawayPleas emakeitgoawayPleasemakeitgoawa yPleasemakeitgoawayPleasemakei tgoawayPleasemakeitgoawayPleas emakeitgoawayPleasemakeitgoawa yPleasemakeitgoawayPleasemakei tgoawayPleasemakeitgoawayPleas emakeitgoawayPleasemakeitgoawa yPleasemakeitgoawayPleasemakei tgoawayPleasemakeitgoawayPleas emakeitgoawayPleasemakeitgoawa yPleasemakeitgoawayPleasemakei tgoawayPleasemakeitgoaway)

[Tallboy]

Chuck, you are dead wrong and have no clue what you are talking about. I sent emails to Logan for almost 5 Months before Mary (Bunny) got me set up as a member. I never did get a proper vendor Introduction by Logan. He asked me to write up something about my company, which I did and it never got posted. Quit talking about things that you know nothing about.

You didn't have a forum a year ago?

When you came on board, he didn't own the site?

My post is true and correct.

[Zack]

How bout dem Bears?

[ckadiddle]

Did you mean benevolent or malevolent?

:lol: Good one! I meant benevolent. Logan never did anything to harm me, only help me by maintaining this site.

[Smokie]

I hope that bringing out in to the open what I felt needed to be looked at and discussed we will be able to move forward put aside some animosities. Admin has an opportunity to maybe do some reflection on what could be done better and those that are angry or feel wronged will also reflect on how they can effect a change for the better.

I have been contacted today by ordinary members just like me and members of the Admin. The majority of the people here truly want peace and do the right thing, so does the Admin.

I am hereby requesting that this thread by closed, not in anger or in censorship, but because I feel that it already brought out into the open something I felt needed to be said. I want to thanks all of those that participated who really wish for this place to be better...that is also my wish.

Thank you all. Javier.

[ckadiddle]

.......yes there has been a lot of moderation in the last 30 days, its been up and down just like an Air Fuel graph with a car on the dyno, when you have this you go in and see what its going to take to smooth the trace out, all I am asking is give the owners a chance to do this. .........

................This is the best most informative site on the net, and it will get better.
Exactly, Dennis. In FL we know the thunderstorm will pass in an hour so we just wait it out and enjoy the lightning show and listen to the thunder from the living room.

As a side note: I refuse to take anything said to me or about me on the web seriously. This is a virtual world, not a real one. This IS NOT real life. I attended MVIV and witnessed NO fistfights, NO namecalling, NO backstabbing. Matter of fact I heard stories of exceptional helpfullness and brotherhood. That's real life. Everyone ooohed and aaahhed over everyone elses s/c regardless of what vendor made it.

P.S. Some of you are a hoot when you get tipsy in the parking lot!:D

[magindat]

DING, DING, DING

That round of discussions is now over!

I don't usually post, but this thread is just ridiculous.

I feel the same way as Salismen:
Generally stated: If you don't have anything nice or constructive to say.....maybe you should just keep that ill-will to your self
in other words just don't say it!!!

I know, by meeting some of them, that some people are just sarcastic
and don't chime in unless there is a place to stick a blade/knife/sharp object...sometimes a tongue.


I will not point any fingers...thats not cool either.
But the pot stirrers know who they are, and should take a chill pill, because what you are doing is not productive and generally spoiling the water for the rest of us.!!

This is not a rant but a wake up call, if you act like a J**k here, how are you in the real world????? just give it a moment and think about it.

I have looked at the "other site", its a local site for them, with no real info of any usable kind....it was kind of barren of information, more of a post what you want site,.

So, if you are looking to BASH or be sarcastic....please go else where....yes, we may loose a few....but some of their opinions are tainted

I am done....rant off

Gregg

To take Gregg's comments a step further....

The internet lacks inflection, facial expressions and body language. Some of the stuff I say in person would get me banned if I typed it. I get away with it in person, cuz my company can SEE the joke. Sometimes, after you meet someone in person, you can take what they type a little easier cuz, you can SEE them in your mind's eye.

I imagine personalities like Zack's to be similar to my own, so I can take it.

I've called TJA names here, but hey Tom knows what I'm talkin 'bout.

There are other examples, I'm sure.

The best thing about this place is it's a means to meet people face to face.

[tmac1337]

You didn't have a forum a year ago?

When you came on board, he didn't own the site?

My post is true and correct.

Lets talk some facts:

Fact 1: You have gone on the record as saying that you have never taken any money from the blower installs in Fort Meyers, that you do it just because your a great friend: but you have been seen on two occasions taking cash at the install times and stuffing it in your pocket: true or not true (or course you could have been just getting reimbursed for the publix cakes)?

Fact 2: How many installs have been done in the garage now? At $1K a pop, does this equal $10K, $15K, or $20K+ in some pockets over there now? How much has gone into your pockets personally? How many additional various mods have been installed there and how many additional thousands are we talking about? How much of this cash have you personally supported this site as a Vendor? I admit I have not, but I do not make thousands leeching off this site behind the scenes.

Since this sum is in the thousands, as a larger sum of money as a psuedo vendor than probably most of the bonifide formal vendors with their own forums, do you feel that when you give a recommendation on which blower kit to buy that anything that comes out of your two sided mouth is fair and objectionable?

Fact 3: Weren't you one of the big pushers behind the scenes of boycotting the Marauder event in North FL this year?

Fact 4: Do you or do you not put little sentences next to your avatar challenging people to fight like: Say "when"....., or "any time, any place"...? If so, get your boxing gloves from kmart and come on over, I accept, If not, I apologize.

Fact 5: Your two faced and have done as much as anyone around here, including me, to be disruptive, so don't be gospel preaching pal, and find a good sergeon to remove that tail from your backside!

Feel free to answer any of these questions, or don't, I never ask a question I do not already know the answer to!

[MM2004]

I hope that bringing out in to the open what I felt needed to be looked at and discussed we will be able to move forward put aside some animosities. Admin has an opportunity to maybe do some reflection on what could be done better and those that are angry or feel wronged will also reflect on how they can effect a change for the better.

I have been contacted today by ordinary members just like me and members of the Admin. The majority of the people here truly want peace and do the right thing, so does the Admin.

I am hereby requesting that this thread by closed, not in anger or in censorship, but because I feel that it already brought out into the open something I felt needed to be said. I want to thanks all of those that participated who really wish for this place to be better...that is also my wish.

Thank you all. Javier.

Javier.

Thank you and as you wish.

Mike.