"there's Snow Business Like The Snow Tire Bisiness For Our Sleds..........

[WJSOLOMON]

Checked with the Wizards at "THE TIRE RACK" today, and was disappointed to learn that there are no apparent Winter Tires available for our Sleds!

The BMW Magazine "ROUNDEL" advertises for a Noreigen Tire by the name of "NOKIAN", that features the "HAKKAPELIITTA 1", a Studdable Winter Tire that exceeds New Government Snow Condition Regulations, and is available out of Denver, Wisconson, and several North Eastern States, but Not in a 17" or 18" Size.

Same problem with the "GREEN DIAMOND TRACTION TIRES" - "Invented in ICELAND, and Proven in Sweden". Imbeded with thousands of Carbide Granules ("Green Diamonds") throughout the tread of the tires, they function as "Minature Studs", and are said to out perform even Studded Snow Tires, on Ice, Hard-Packed Snow, and Wet Pavement.

Same problem - 16" are the Largest Available Sizes.

If we outfitted our cars with a Dedicated Set of these 16" Wheels and Tires, what would that do to our Speedometer Readings, Performance, Driveability, etc.?


:confused: :confused: :( :cool:

[cyclone03]

SNOW??
Isn't that the stuff you put flavored juice on and eat with a spoon?

Why would anybody even go out in that?? :confused:

[VaderSS]

If you intend to drive in snow, you should have a dedicated set of tires and wheels for that purpose, as a smaller wheel and narrower tire are better in snow.

Snow tires have softer, taller sidewalls with less tread width, so there is more flex and handling is compromised on dry pavement, but if you have to drive in snow, the compromise is well worth it. Try driving in snow once with 18" low profile tires, and you will welcome the trade-off.

A snow tire's tread compound is designed to remain soft in below freezing conditions, and will generally be too soft much above freezing so handling will be more compromised, the warmer it gets.

For a 16" wheel, the 225/70 series would indicate about 1 mph faster than reality, the 235/70 would indicate 1 mph slower, and the 225/75 would indicate 1-2 mph slower.

[WJSOLOMON]

Originally posted by cyclone03: "SNOW?? Isn't that the stuff you put flavored juice on and eat with a spoon? Why would anybody even go out in that?? :confused:

Used to date an Exotic Dancer with that same name - what a "Flake"! And yes, if a guy paid more, you could select your own juice and go for it. Seems like the spoons would get flipped over the shoulder after a short time though. :eek: :eek: :eek:

In some of the other Southern States like Texas, they'd out fit the Golf Carts with those "Green Diamond" Tires, and effectively aeorate the turf like Golf Spikes, when you're driving from Tee to Tee.

The rest of the world, or at least around Iceland and Sweden, uses them on an everyday basis, to go to work, or to get to the Golf Course, it would seem.

If I can get Mercury, or an equal appropriate authority tio approve Four Equally Sized Wheels, I'd like to outfit my sled with either Four Blizzaks, Green Diaminds, or Nokicin "HAKKAPELIITTA-1"s for a Winter Season and try them on...for size.

:p ;) :cool:

[03 Merc]

WJ,

Why not use "standard" size Grand Marquis wheels...at least you know they will fit.. I am sure someone has a snow pack for the Grand Marquis / Crown Vics out there.. Plus as VaderSS said narrower is better in this case.. Instead of doing the plus 1 / plus 2 routine do the neg 1 / neg 2.. in resizing.. Tire Rack should be able to figure that one out..

Man I am glad I moved to the South.:D...first snow flake and we declare a state of emergency and stay home...:p If need be the wife's Mountaineer can be risked....;)

[LincMercLover]

I dunno, but my Mother has a 2001 GM and it sucks in rain, much less snow. You REALLY have to know how to drive the car to know how to handle the drifts. She doesn't... LOL, don't tell her I said that though! ;) Anywho, I don't think I'd just go throwing on GM set of rims and calling it a day. Different tires are gunna be a must. How can you say no snow driving? Doesn't anyone like doughnuts anymore?!?!:D

[scooter]

I've gotten around reasonably safely with the standard tires on my 2001 Grand Marquis in snow. They are Goodyear Eagle LS's, they came with the handling package. The biggest problem I have is digging a hole with the rear tires because of torque. Traction control helps, and getting used to just letting the car idle forward.

On the road, I drive very carefully. With that said, I do not intentionally drive in snow. But, in Wisconsin, it can come up on you at any time. On those occasions, I have made it home safely.

I have been considering the Marauder very intensely. But, now that I have read so much about it I'm shying away. No traction control, big slick tires--bad in winter, I don't know. I am not rich, and the Marauder would have to be my all-around full use car. Fitting it with different rims and tires, I don't know if it's worth the "fun factor" I'd get out of it vs. costs.

Scott

[GarageMahal]

"Instead of doing the plus 1 / plus 2 routine do the neg 1 / neg 2"

So... can someone do the math for me here? What rims and tire sizes are needed for a -1 or -2 option? It appears I do not understand tire sizes enough.

Thanks
jta

[VaderSS]

+1 = Add an inch to the wheel size or 19" in the MM case.
+2 = 20"

16 " is -2

You want to keep the diameter of the tire the same, so the speedo will stay accurate. Keep in mind that the perfect tire size may not exist or be unpopular and have few choices.

Things are further complicated if it is true that the speed is sensed via the ABS system, but Logan's experiences makes me think that is not the case. If it is true though, then the front's diameter of 27.25" has to be figured in by using average of the two sizes and coming up with 27.93", which would put the speedo off by about 1 mph less than actual with the 225/70-16 all around.

Stock rear diameter is 28.61"
225/70-16 = 28.4"
235/70-16 = 28.95"
Diameter calc http://www.smokemup.com/auto_math/tire_diameter.php

Speed Calc
http://www.smokemup.com/auto_math/mph_range2.php

[GarageMahal]

I thought there was one more variable here: rim width

I also figured I would maintain the different sizes for front and rear.

jta

[03 Merc]

Jta,

Rim width will be driven by the tires you select...the 70 Series VaderSS came up with will fit on stock GM / CV rim sizes...The tire store can tell you the recommended rim sizes (widths) for a given tire.. For all weather traction I would think you would want the same size front and rear so that the rears follow the fronts "channel"....

[tetsu]

OK. So, given that we know that the 03 CV/GM wheels will fit on
the Marauder, and perusing the availability of tires in the close sizes,
I see the Bridgestone Winter Dueler is available in:

215/70-16 (close to the stock front tire diameter)
225/70-16 (close to the stock REAR diameter)

Might a set of CV steelies with 2 of each of those tires be workable?

How close do we need to be to avoid having problems with our ABS?

Johnny

[VaderSS]

My suggestion would be to stay with the same size front and rear.

Based on FFracer's post
""Hey guys, I got a chance last nite and the answer is they do NOT rub anything, caliper, backing plate nuthin! I then drove it around and no ABS lite or false activation. I will post the diameters that I had on the car but they are 16" 98 Vic Police wheels with P225/60R16's.""

The same size causes no problems.

the 225/70R16s look like the size to get.

[tetsu]

Since I can get the tires in close to matching sizes, I think I'm going to try to maintain the matching sizes to the OEM tires.

I figure that the rears are gonna burn up in one season anyways. :)

Anyone know if Bridgestone Winter Duelers are good?

Johnny

[tetsu]

There is also a Blizzak ws-50 package with 225/60-16 tires available
for $572 for the 02 GM/CV.

The 60 just means a little skinnier right?

Johnny

[VaderSS]

The 60 would be lower, or 26.63" in diameter.

examples;
Size specs load/speed
255/50ZR17 101W

In the above example,
the tire is 255 mm wide at it's widest point,
the height of the tire is 50% of it's width or 127 mm high,
Z indicates it is capable of speeds in excess of 149 MPH,
R indicates Radial construction,
and it fits a 17" wheel.

The 101 indicates that it will carry 1819 Lbs and the W indicates that it has a speed rating of 168 MPH.


255/60R15 102T
255 wide 60% of width high or 153 mm high, Radial, 15" rim, 1874Lbs T= 118MPH

Reference:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/general/speed.htm

[mtnh]

Johnny, just keep in mind that the 02 and older rims will not provide the proper offset and tire track for the MM, so you need to get 03 rims. I was going to go with 225-70s in the rear and 215-65s in the front when I figure out my winter MM package. That provides similar revs per mile ratios to stock 18" setups, though not the exact perfect one.

[WJSOLOMON]

Originally posted by tetsu:"OK. So, given that we know that the 03 CV/GM wheels will fit on the Marauder, and perusing the availability of tires in the close sizes, I see the Bridgestone Winter Dueler is available in:
215/70-16 (close to the stock front tire diameter)
225/70-16 (close to the stock REAR diameter)
Might a set of CV steelies with 2 of each of those tires be workable?
How close do we need to be to avoid having problems with our ABS?
Johnny"

JT - If you're going with the 16" Wheels, you owe it to your self to check out the New Bridgestone BLIZZAK WS-50 Studless Winter Tires. In their ads on The Tire Rack's Web Site, they indicate that their New Conpounds provide Better High Speed Traction through the Turns, Faster Acceleration, and Shorter Stops than even Studded Tires.

In the BMW Monthly Magazine "ROUNDEL" two very popular and frequent Advertisers are the "NOKIAN HAKKAPELIITTA 1" Studdable Tire from Norway (800-565-2525), and the First All-Season Tire with Ice-Bitting Traction of a Studded Tire from Iceland, and Proven in Sweden. The Rubber Compound contains Thousands of Carbide Granules ("Green Diamonds"), that function as minature studs. (715-355-8527). 30-Day Money Back Guarentee.

Wish I hadn't Ordered the 4 Extra OEM Wheels, and Dunlop's SP Winter Sport M-2 for my MM, or I'd go your way with the OEM CV Wheels and 16" Grippers.

:( ;) :cool:

[Pantherman]

If you want to keep rolling radii relatively correct, the Miata guys have a great tire size calculator at http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html[/URL].