Brake up grade is here [Archive] - MercuryMarauder.net Forums

Dennis Reinhart

06-17-2003, 08:19 AM

I wanted an affordable upgrade for the club, here it is, the front rotors on our cars weigh 22LBS each. I had these two piece cross drilled rotors made and they weigh 16 pounds each. This is like weighing 600lbs less do to less unsprung weight do to less rotational mass, this translates to lower et's. These rotors are directional veined which means there cooler have less pedal fade, and less warpage. They come in blue red black or gold. I am 30 days away with the stainless steel brake line kit.

http://web.iwebcenters.com/reinhartautomotive/images/session/00-00-1055862678-marauderrotor.jpg

With the composite pads front and rear and the cross drilled rotors for the rear. I have for the rear the pictures are coming, this will dramaticly improve the cars over all braking. I have not posted much because I am working on Kieths super charger and it is really nice, and I should have dyno numbers next week, thanks for every ones support.

Dennis

RF Overlord

06-17-2003, 08:53 AM

Dennis, this is great news! I've been wanting an affordable brake upgrade exactly like this for a while...all the other companies would either not sell the rotors alone, or wanted WAY too much money...

:bows:

Dave Compson

06-17-2003, 09:00 AM

Thanks alot Dennis! With 15k miles on my car now, i have a feeling brakes are in my future.

mdmarauder

06-17-2003, 09:02 AM

How Much!!! How Much??? I want those rotors that's exactly what I was looking for.

gonzo50

06-17-2003, 09:15 AM

I also can't wait to get them, do the calipers also come in those same colors, that would look awesome, red rotors with red calipers.:up:

MMM2003

06-17-2003, 10:03 AM

What diameter rotors? Will they be bigger for front and back?
What do you mean by "composite" pads? Higher, better grade, than stock, I assume.

I know you are busy and you are working on several projects. Just looking for more details.

Thanks Dennis !

MN6

06-17-2003, 11:34 AM

Sounds like an order of Rear Sway Bar & Brakes is going to be on it's way soon. Also waiting to see how the SC shakes out. Better clear off the Credit Card Balances, pretty quick.

ghost

06-17-2003, 12:57 PM

Man, those would look so trick on a MM! When I see someone with upgraded brakes, I think to myself, "This guy is serious about performance." And it's true, brakes are an often overlooked part of the total performace of a vehicle. I have to update my sig file now. ;)

You guys are getting some great stuff! :)

Eric

darebren

06-17-2003, 01:39 PM

any updates on these rotors, do you have them?? I can powder coat my own calipers anyway, just want the rotors and stainless brake lines. also, rear sway bar.

Dennis, when you have time, please update the group on availability.

Marauder57

06-17-2003, 02:23 PM

Dennis,

Those babies are FRESH!

I bet they will look good on your BlueMM and my Blue MM as well. Nice Blue Calipers would be cool too.

Crap at this point with all the stuff Dennis will have out I will have to put a Rienhart Automotive Badge on my MM because so much of it will be from Dennis!

Like I said Dennis I will be seeing you in less than 30 days!

Dennis Reinhart

06-17-2003, 02:51 PM

Originally posted by darebren
any updates on these rotors, do you have them?? I can powder coat my own calipers anyway, just want the rotors and stainless brake lines. also, rear sway bar.

Dennis, when you have time, please update the group on availability.

they are now available please call for details

Bigdogjim

06-17-2003, 03:32 PM

The best never rest!

Dennis Reinhart

06-17-2003, 03:49 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Marauder57
[B]Dennis,

Those babies are FRESH!

I bet they will look good on your BlueMM and my Blue MM as well. Nice Blue Calipers would be cool too.

Crap at this point with all the stuff Dennis will have out I will have to put a Rienhart Automotive Badge on my MM because so much of it will be from Dennis!

you mean like this.

http://web.iwebcenters.com/reinhartautomotive/images/session/00-00-1055890087-reinhartlogo.jpg

ghost

06-17-2003, 03:54 PM

Cool. :up:

Eric

RF Overlord

06-17-2003, 04:00 PM

AAAAAAAAAH!!!

The dreaded "Type R"... :help:

ROFL, Dennis!!!

jgc61sr2002

06-17-2003, 05:26 PM

Very Cooool.:coolman:

rurumon

06-18-2003, 05:21 AM

Dennis, any chance of doing slotted rotors? I have a superstitions about cross-drilled rotors. Were the hole drilled through or forged with the holes already? I'd say that has a big effect on whether or not they will crack. Zinc plated?

Dennis Reinhart

06-18-2003, 06:26 AM

Originally posted by rurumon
Dennis, any chance of doing slotted rotors? I have a superstitions about cross-drilled rotors. Were the hole drilled through or forged with the holes already? I'd say that has a big effect on whether or not they will crack. Zinc plated?

Well, you don't want slotted rotors for every day driving, the reason is they have to get the pads warmed up for optimal braking. Slotted rotors will also wear out pads out twice as fast and they make a lot of brake dust if that's what you want yes I can have those made to.

Marauder57

06-18-2003, 06:48 AM

Dennis,

Nice "R" Badge you have going there.....all good stuff....I lucked out with you being so close......

THIS POST SEEN ON ANOTHER CAR FORUM:

Man I don't know what happened....the car just blue me away....looked like some cop car or something.....the only thing I could see as it pulled away was a little Red "R".......

*Poof* and then he was gone.......

:D

ghost

06-18-2003, 09:16 AM

Originally posted by Dennis Reinhart
Well, you don't want slotted rotors for every day driving, the reason is they have to get the pads warmed up for optimal braking. Slotted rotors will also wear out pads out twice as fast and they make a lot of brake dust if that's what you want yes I can have those made to.

Dennis,

If the right pads are chosen there is no need to get the pads warmed up first. There are several pads out there that have a tremendous initial bite when cold - some are hard on rotors, like the Hawk HP+, others are extremely kind, like the EBC kevlar pads I'm using.

Also, I don't understand how a slotted rotor would wear out a pad twice as fast as a cross-drilled rotor. Could you elaborate on this point? Maybe I'm missing something here, but I've never heard that argument before. The slots assist in removing gas buildup formed when the pads start to burn from heavy braking, thus preventing brake fade, and cross-drilled rotors do the same thing. Both also help remove spent brake pad material.

Rurumon is correct about cross-drilled rotors and the problems that drilled holes present (as opposed to cast-in holes). This is a well-known problem, but more for guys who autocross than it is for daily drivers who won't subject their braking system to the kinds of stresses that autocrossing promotes. The cost of rotors with cast-in holes is usually prohibitive for men of average means such as myself, so drilled rotors provide extra braking performance without breaking the bank. I think the Reinhart rotors are a good choice for a daily driver.

Eric

Dennis Reinhart

06-18-2003, 09:40 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ghost
Dennis,

If the right pads are chosen there is no need to get the pads warmed up first. There are several pads out there that have a tremendous initial bite when cold - some are hard on rotors, like the Hawk HP+, others are extremely kind, like the EBC kevlar pads I'm using.

This is true on slotted disks,which are normally for very agresive driver. If you are a agresive driver or plan on racing the car then go with slotted.

Also, I don't understand how a slotted rotor would wear out a pad twice as fast as a cross-drilled rotor.

Well its very simple there are six slots on each side of the rotor every time it passes the pads when brakes are applied it takes of pad material.

Could you elaborate on this point? Maybe I'm missing something here, but I've never heard that argument before. The slots assist in removing gas buildup formed when the pads start to burn from heavy braking, thus preventing brake fade, and cross-drilled rotors do the same thing. Both also help remove spent brake pad material.

[b]Rurumon is correct about cross-drilled rotors and the problems that drilled holes present (as opposed to cast-in holes). This is a well-known problem, but more for guys who autocross than it is for daily drivers who won't subject their braking system to the kinds of stresses that autocrossing promotes. The cost of rotors with cast-in holes is usually prohibitive for men of average means such as myself, so drilled rotors provide extra braking performance without breaking the bank. I think the Reinhart rotors are a good choice for a daily driver.

Cross drilled rotors cool 30% more than slotted, they are also less prone to pedal fade and warping, but if you are very agressive driver don't use cross drilled rotors they can spider crack even in a forged cross drilled rotor so again you the member need to tell me how you drive and we can make the right choice for your paticular driving needs needs.

Dennis

ghost

06-18-2003, 02:37 PM

Originally posted by Dennis Reinhart

Well its very simple there are six slots on each side of the rotor every time it passes the pads when brakes are applied it takes of pad material.

I understand and agree, but how does that differ from the "cheese grater" rotors? They will do the same thing. My point is that slots will not remove more pad material than holes. If you took all of those holes and lined them up in continuous rows you'd get the same "cleaning capacity" of the 6 slots if not more, wouldn't you agree?

We do agree with this though:

Very aggressive driver: get slotted rotors
Average daily driver: get cross-drilled rotors

Eric

RF Overlord

06-18-2003, 02:48 PM

Dennis and ghost:

Thanks for the mini-tutorial on slotted vs. cross-drilled rotors...I wanted slotted originally, as I thought they were better and also looked cool, but now I know that cross-drilled would be the better choice for my driving style (not aggressive, but want better stopping power)...if I could only afford them... :(

ghost

06-18-2003, 02:55 PM

Originally posted by RF Overlord
Dennis and ghost:

Thanks for the mini-tutorial on slotted vs. cross-drilled rotors...I wanted slotted originally, as I thought they were better and also looked cool, but now I know that cross-drilled would be the better choice for my driving style (not aggressive, but want better stopping power)...if I could only afford them... :(

Cross-drilled rotors for the front shouldn't be very expensive at all. I would expect around $120 each. Ask what your dealer charges for a new plain rotor. You don't need them in the back, most of the braking power comes from the front.

A good set of performance front pads should be less than $90. Mine cost $87 per front set and are worth every single penny in increased stopping power. I won't even consider buying any brake pads other than the EBC Greenstuff pads. They've lasted over a year now with NO rotor wear - I can't feel even the slightest groove in my rotors. These babies are gentle!

If your pads are interchangeable with the Crown Vic pads then you may be in luck. Check The Tire Rack (http://www.tirerack.com) for availability.

Eric

Dennis Reinhart

06-18-2003, 03:54 PM

Eric if you can find them for that more power to you, these rotors weigh five pounds less each, than to OEM rotors, There two piece and there is less pad wear with cross drilled than slotted,I am not a subject matter expert here but Gary at KVR is I sent KVR all the brake parts off Kieth's car to do this for the club and Kieth and my self, if you want to get specific call Gary at KVR and talk to him. I will clear it there and ok it for you. I feel this package is a fair price. Now if the club wants to try a group purchase I can reduce this price depending on the size of order. But it will be for club Members only. I did this on the TCCOA for a MMDS purchase and I sure don't mind doing this, for this great club.

sprtyworty

06-18-2003, 06:07 PM

I'm in. Lets start the group purchase program!

jgc61sr2002

06-18-2003, 08:02 PM

Dennis - Are the rotors riveted together?

ghost

06-18-2003, 09:33 PM

Originally posted by Dennis Reinhart
Eric if you can find them for that more power to you, these rotors weigh five pounds less each, than to OEM rotors, There two piece and there is less pad wear with cross drilled than slotted,I am not a subject matter expert here but Gary at KVR is I sent KVR all the brake parts off Kieth's car to do this for the club and Kieth and my self, if you want to get specific call Gary at KVR and talk to him. I will clear it there and ok it for you. I feel this package is a fair price. Now if the club wants to try a group purchase I can reduce this price depending on the size of order. But it will be for club Members only. I did this on the TCCOA for a MMDS purchase and I sure don't mind doing this, for this great club.

Dennis,

My price guess was just that, a guess, based upon my cost for my particular application. In no way was I trying to undermine your price structure reasoning and you have my apologies if that's how my post came across. I have no idea how much you charge for the rotors and would never call into question your integrity to charge nothing but a fair price.

Your offer for a group purchase is generous and I'm sure the members here with MMs appreciate the opportunity to upgrade their braking components with these nice rotors at a reduced price.

Eric

JamesHecker

06-19-2003, 12:06 AM

Dennis,

Are calipers available also?

RCSignals

06-19-2003, 01:49 AM

I can't see cracking in cross drilled rotors being a huge problem, or regular occurrence. If the rotors are machine milled/drilled correctly the hole will not be pre-set up for easy cracking. A hole that is not smooth or has had tool chatter will be more susceptible to cracks

rurumon

06-19-2003, 05:44 AM

Stress concentrations are the name of the game here, you would be surprised how much stress gets magnified when there is a hole in the material. 4 or 5 times greater is common.

So how much are we talking about here for these rotors?

Dennis Reinhart

06-19-2003, 06:02 AM

Calipers are available but again there not needed, with these designed rotors and pads, and I agree cracking is not a issue as long as you use the brakes normal and not abuse them or race the car on a track, again if I could have found a less expensive way of doing this I would have for the club, of course there is a larger rotor and four piston caliper available, and I will probably will use this on Kieth's car if I feel its needed, but the cost is high over 2K, so again I am trying to do the best for every one here.

Fourth Horseman

06-20-2003, 09:14 AM

You guys think it's worth waiting for the stainless steel brake lines and doing the rotors and lines all at once?

What do you guys think about color? How much of the color will show once you get it all re-assembled?

Hmmm... decisions, decisions...

JamesHecker

06-20-2003, 07:22 PM

I think I would like to do the calipers in blue and add a fairly sublte double pin stripe, one blue, one grey.

martyo

06-21-2003, 01:58 AM

Originally posted by Fourth Horseman
You guys think it's worth waiting for the stainless steel brake lines and doing the rotors and lines all at once?

What do you guys think about color? How much of the color will show once you get it all re-assembled?

Hmmm... decisions, decisions...

I ordered the brake "package" from Dennis this week (thanks, Dennis!). I asked him to send me the SS lines as well and I will do all of the work at the time. Speak to Dennis about availability of all of the parts. I hope to have my stuff in my hands and installed before I send my bad boy on a truck down to TX this fall to visit some friends in TX!!

darebren

06-21-2003, 04:36 AM

Martyo, what pushed you to Dennis versus the big Baer front calipers and front and rear rotor? price about the same

darebren

06-21-2003, 04:37 AM

those are not cheap rotors

Dennis Reinhart

06-21-2003, 05:19 AM

Originally posted by darebren
Martyo, what pushed you to Dennis versus the big Baer front calipers and front and rear rotor? price about the same

Well I can help here the other company mentioned, that kit is not a upgrade it comes with a (one piece) rotor probably weighs as much as OEM it does come with calipers but there two piston calipers, just like the OEM, and it does come with lines, I feel what I had made was better or I would have not bothered with this. But at least it gives a choice to choose from.

martyo

06-21-2003, 06:05 AM

Originally posted by Dennis Reinhart
Well I can help here the other company mentioned, that kit is not a upgrade it comes with a (one piece) rotor probably weighs as much as OEM it does come with calipers but there two piston calipers, just like the OEM, and it does come with lines, I feel what I had made was better or I would have not bothered with this. But at least it gives a choice to choose from.

Adding to what Dennis said:

I spent a fair amount of time talking to brake manufacturers and then I read Dennis's posts here and spoke to Dennis personally. Dennis always gives me straight advice and good value. The products he has hooked me up with for the brakes are what I need to suit my purpose for the right price.

Dennis has helped me build my car to the beast that it is today and I expect that as I continue to build my car, Dennis will continue to be there for me.

What else can I say?

Oh yeah, hey Dennis, should I have bought an extra set of pads or will these pads always be available in the future?

Oh, and another thing Dennis, what do you think of the Eibach springs being discussed on this board and is there a possibility that you can set up a drop ship arrangement with the manufacturer for the benefit of the club members here?

mensrea

06-23-2003, 04:44 PM

At least the Baer kit that is on Sarge's new car had two piece rotors. And, the PBR2 piston stopped the Marauder S in 15 feet shorter
Maybe pads and rotors will do you, I would love to see them side by side and drive both cars. Right now it is all conjecture as I don't know anyone who has comapred the Baer/KVR/etc set up side by side.

JohnnyB

06-23-2003, 06:33 PM

Martyo:
who is doing your brake installation

Dennis Reinhart

06-23-2003, 06:34 PM

Originally posted by mensrea
At least the Baer kit that is on Sarge's new car had two piece rotors. And, the PBR2 piston stopped the Marauder S in 15 feet shorter
Maybe pads and rotors will do you, I would love to see them side by side and drive both cars. Right now it is all conjecture as I don't know anyone who has comapred the Baer/KVR/etc set up side by side.

I can only go on what I have been told, I have never seen the kit, mentioned but look for both of us. I was told its a one solid rotor, not two piece.

martyo

06-23-2003, 06:34 PM

With any luck my brakes will be ready before I put my car on a trailer for my Texas trip this fall. Then Sarge and I can see who stops quicker. And, no, I will not make the same test on who gets up to speed quicker!

martyo

06-23-2003, 08:33 PM

JohnnyB: I haven't decided yet, but I will either use my local guy or the folks out at MustangMagic. Are you doing the upgrade too?

martyo

07-28-2003, 04:56 PM

Ok guys, here it is: Today I did half of the brake upgrade. The rear rotors and carbon fiber (KVR) pads are in, the fronts are not in but will be shortly. Now before anyone flames me here, I know that the rears only do about 30% of the braking on these cars, but I wasn't ready to do the fronts yet and had time to do the rears. I also installed the Eibach springs (yes, I know Dennis doesn't like 'em, but I really do) and swaybar. The handling of the car is much improved. For such a fat boy, this is one kick azz car!! The stiffer front springs cut the nose dive from braking and the sway bar reduces body roll. The rear brakes by themselves have given me much more brake at the time with much less fade. I will report more when I do the fronts, but so far, so good! When I do the front rotors I will also be doing Dennis' shorty headers, x-pipe, and hi-flow cats. I can't wait!!

Ok guys stop reading, stop drooling, and start dialing Dennis. He will hook you up!! And, no this was NOT a paid for endorsement.

P.S. I am taking up a collection so I can buy Dennis' supercharger for my car. Anyone care to contribute?