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View Full Version : I Now Have My THIRD Ford P.O.S. Engine


Ross
03-08-2007, 03:05 PM
Picked up my car today with engine number 3 in it. Still no final word on whether Ford will pick up the warranty, but I'm not holding my breath. Cost me $6,600.00. There goes any hope of coming to MV5. According to the dealer, the Ford area rep quit, so there is no one to give me a final ruling on the warranty until they get someone new in.
While I was test driving the car with the mechanic and the service advisor, I asked the mechanic about the Fail Safe overheating system. He explained it fully, and never said a word about the MM not having such a system. My position is going to be that even if the fan motor (not in warranty) malfunctioned causing the overheat, the FailSafe (in warranty) should have prevented the damage to the engine. I know they will have a line of BS in response, but I'll see what they have to say.
BTW, did I say that Ford products suck?
RR|Suki
03-08-2007, 03:23 PM
that's rough man :puke:
Blackened300a
03-08-2007, 03:25 PM
Good Luck on Engine #3. If they decide to not honor the warranty, I would place a call to a Ford rep or someone higher up the ladder to see what they can do.
merc
03-08-2007, 03:25 PM
BTW, did I say that Ford products suck?

You need to say that louder for everyone to hear

FORD PRODUCTS SUCK
fastblackmerc
03-08-2007, 03:27 PM
Good Luck on Engine #3. If they decide to not honor the warranty, I would place a call to a Ford rep or someone higher up the ladder to see what they can do.

Keep on going up the ladder until you get to Elena :eek: ...... We all know how much she liked the Marauder.....
Raudermaster
03-08-2007, 05:36 PM
That's a bummer to hear. I hope all turns out well with this engine.
RCSignals
03-08-2007, 07:23 PM
One of the members here was/is a ford rep in TX
94_302
03-08-2007, 07:58 PM
Your 2nd motor only lasted 20k miles? Did you have the same mods on the 1st motor as you did on the 2nd?
Bigdogjim
03-08-2007, 08:03 PM
Does not look the end just yet, hang in there, talk nice to the new Ford Rep.
superford3
03-08-2007, 08:07 PM
i hope this is an important lesson to people ,when the gauge is over heating shut it down,sorry that this happened but ford reps will just look at it as why did the owner keep driving which caused the engine failure,so id say it has nothing to do with pos ford sorry
sailsmen
03-08-2007, 08:08 PM
It is my understanding each dealer has X amount in goodwill repair allocated to them.

If the dealer has not used up their allocation and ask the Ford Rep to approve he probably will.

Point being the Ford Rep in these cases is just rubber stamping it for the dealer.
Motorhead350
03-08-2007, 08:29 PM
Third times a charm! Sorry I couldn't resist.
metroplex
03-09-2007, 05:42 AM
You would know when the fail-safe cooling system is active because essentially only 4 cylinders are firing at a single time, the other 4 cylinders are supposed to just pump air to cool the cylinder. IIRC, they say the failsafe is good for up to 50 mph for 50 miles. Or more realistically stop/go speeds for 30-50 miles max.

Have you looked at your radiator or heater core for potential blockage? Underdrives CAN have an effect on your motor since it slows down the water pump, but not enough for you to be on your 3rd engine.

What type of anti-freeze are you using, and how much water are you using?
Since you are in Texas, I'd recommend a 70/30 mixture of water to anti-freeze. Water is the actual coolant, but the anti-freeze has some additives to reduce/prevent corrosion, lubricate pump shaft seals, maintain the pH, reduce the freezing point and raise the boiling point.
magindat
03-09-2007, 06:39 AM
Hmm. I hate to hear this kind of stuff. Sorry for your trouble.

I wonder, though... If you had the resources to put out 6600 for a new REPLACEMENT motor, why not 'upgrade' with something BUILT? I mean I understand you're looking to get them to warranty, but you sound pretty sure they won't.

Not doggin ya. I feel bad for ya. But if it was me, I think I might have been on the horn with my favorite tuner/builder and spending the same money on something I had more confidence in.
FordNut
03-09-2007, 06:40 AM
You would know when the fail-safe cooling system is active

IF there was such system on the Marauder.
GreekGod
03-09-2007, 10:09 AM
IF there was such system on the Marauder.

That is a very good question. "The Ford Workshop Manual" says there is, in our 4V section, but it wouldn't be the first time a Ford manual was incorrect.

I don't have the wiring book to check on it, and the sensor would be under the intake manifold if we do have one.
MENINBLK
03-09-2007, 10:15 AM
I don't have the wiring book to check on it, and the sensor would be under the intake manifold if we do have one.

The sensor would be screwed directly into the cylinder head.
The FS system monitors CYLINDER HEAD TEMPERATURE.
MENINBLK
03-09-2007, 10:17 AM
Good Luck on Engine #3. If they decide to not honor the warranty, I would place a call to a Ford rep or someone higher up the ladder to see what they can do.

I went that route with a 98 Contour SE over the THIRD CD4E Transaxle within 85,000 miles.
$2700 later it was my bill. Ford told me I was SOL.
Don't expect anything. Ford ain't got any $$$ for either of us...
metroplex
03-09-2007, 10:45 AM
That is a very good question. "The Ford Workshop Manual" says there is, in our 4V section, but it wouldn't be the first time a Ford manual was incorrect.

I don't have the wiring book to check on it, and the sensor would be under the intake manifold if we do have one.

As far as I know, all modular V8s with the DIS COP ignition have the fail-safe cooling system. I believe Ford tried to implement something similar to the Hemi MDS way back in the day, but couldn't get it to run smoothly enough so they resorted to just keeping it as a "fail-safe" cooling system.

Since our PCMs can shut off injectors and shut off the spark for individual cylinders, the probability of the system existing on a Marauder is VERY HIGH. The problem is, the fail-safe cooling system has limitations. I recall reading about the 50 mile / 50 mph limit, but depending on the ambient, that could be much less.

There's absolutely no reason for the engine to overheat and burn out, especially in this guy's case where he is on his 3rd engine. The most logical thing to check (assuming he is getting good reman'd engines) is the radiator and cooling system. Keep your stock pulleys on and use fresh coolant (70% water, 30% anti-freeze). If your temp needle is STILL climbing higher than normal, I would recommend checking the engine calibration and the exhaust to find out if there are any clogs or blockage. Inspect the aerodynamics on the front-end to see if there's anything preventing air to flow through the radiator.

Inspect the a/c condenser, transmission cooler, and the radiator fins to see if there's anything stuck in there (hot dog wrappers, etc...)

The cylinder head temperature sensor is used on modern modular V8s.
metroplex
03-09-2007, 10:47 AM
Looking at the original poster's signature, the original engine lasted 80k miles, and the second engine lasted 20k miles. Something must have happened at around 80k miles (new mods? new tune? accident? ran over an armadillo and its shell got stuck somewhere)? for the first motor to burn up.
GreekGod
03-09-2007, 11:06 AM
"...use a 50/50 mixture of engine coolant and clean, drinkable water..."

..."Maximum concentration is 60/40%"

..."Minimum concentration is 40/60%"

It would seem unlikely that any Modular engine wouldn't have the Fail-Safe cooling system, since it was a feature from the beginning.
magindat
03-09-2007, 11:49 AM
Looking at the original poster's signature, the original engine lasted 80k miles, and the second engine lasted 20k miles. Something must have happened at around 80k miles (new mods? new tune? accident? ran over an armadillo and its shell got stuck somewhere)? for the first motor to burn up.

Interesting. Maybe ended up with some leaded gas and plugged up the cats? Thermostat in backwards? Teflon tape shards stuck somewhere from a new sensor or something?

I'm reaching here....
FordNut
03-09-2007, 02:54 PM
IF there was such system on the Marauder.

And I repeat...
MarauderMark
03-09-2007, 04:53 PM
You need to say that louder for everyone to hear

FORD PRODUCTS SUCK

Fix
Or
Repair
Daily
You startin trouble again:D
Ross
03-12-2007, 01:42 PM
Well, to answer a few questions:
1. Engine number 1 didn't burn up. Some of you old timers will recall that my first engine blew a spark plug out of its hole, threads and all. Just driving along at about 60 MPH and BANG!
2. Is there a Fail Safe on our cars? When I was test driving my car with the mechanic and service advisor when I picked it up, I asked the mechanic and he told me all about the history of Ford overheat protection, going back quite a few years. He said that our MM's do have a Fail Safe.
3. Why didn't I spend a few thousand more on a built engine? Well, I discussed that option with a vendor on this site, but the additional time (rental car=$ each day) and money for the engine just wasn't in the budget.
4. All of my mods are bolt ons, nothing internal, except for the XCal program from DR.
5. If the Fail Safe should have given me even 10 extra miles of cushion, that would have been more than enough. I had to go another couple of miles until I reached the next exit after the temp spiked.
A new Dodge Charger or Chrysler 300 with an SRT8 is looking really good right now. Anybody want a 300A with a brand new engine? Who'll start the bidding?
Zack
03-12-2007, 01:47 PM
I challenge someone to prove there is a Fail-Safe on the MM!
MitchB
03-12-2007, 03:09 PM
I challenge someone to prove there is a Fail-Safe on the MM!

There is!

Mitch
sailsmen
03-12-2007, 03:17 PM
I had a heat prob w/ my car. When it got hot it would shift @1,500RPM and would drive as though it had 4 cylinders.
Marauderjack
03-12-2007, 03:31 PM
Ross......

I am sorry you are having so much trouble but talking Ford down is not really necessary.....I know that we all have opinions and I'll express mine!!:beer: Perhaps the dealer network is the problem??:rolleyes:

I have had Ford products since the mid 80's.....Tauruses....Sables... .Five Crown Vics and now the Marauder and have cumulatively put 1.2 MILLION miles on them with no problems except the surging brakes that Ford is famous for and axles on my 2000 CV at 175K miles!!! That CV is still going strong with around 275K miles on it!!:bows:

My Marauder now has 50K miles on it since my FIT ProCharger installation and is running stronger than ever with zero oil consumption!!:D I plan on keeping it no matter what and my target is 250K before anything major.....we'll see!!:confused:

I wish you luck and hope your "Gremlins" leave you alone whatever you decide!!:beer:

Marauderjack:burnout:
GreekGod
03-12-2007, 05:00 PM
I challenge someone to prove there is a Fail-Safe on the MM!

Ford wouldn't lie.
FordNut
03-12-2007, 06:08 PM
I have a tranny temp gauge as well as the engine temp gauge. If the engine temp gauge is pegged, the car runs no different from how it runs at normal operating temp. If the tranny temp is too high, it short-shifts and does all kinds of funky stuff. I do not believe there is a fail-safe program for the engine, as I have pegged the engine temp gauge a few times and never noticed it running any differently.
metroplex
03-13-2007, 05:36 AM
Keep in mind an aftermarket tune can disable many important features like the OBD-II diagnostic system or the MIL indicator system. I wouldn't doubt that the tune can also disable the fail safe cooling system. Some of these settings aren't visible to PRP users and even dealers.
MMinMN
03-13-2007, 07:06 AM
Just a little FYI on overheating. I had a 98 crown vic that would overheat on real hot days. I found the radiator fins to be clogged with dirt and crap between the radiator and AC cooler. I now with any car, spray out the radiator real good every year to prevent overheating.
Ross
03-13-2007, 07:52 AM
Keep in mind an aftermarket tune can disable many important features like the OBD-II diagnostic system or the MIL indicator system. I wouldn't doubt that the tune can also disable the fail safe cooling system. Some of these settings aren't visible to PRP users and even dealers.

I have an Xcal2 with a DR tune. I haven't asked Dennis, but I assume that his tune does nothing to disable any safety features like a FailSafe system. Could I be wrong?
metroplex
03-13-2007, 08:16 AM
I doubt Dennis disabled anything, but keep in mind that according to SCT, dealers don't even have access to some of the additional features of the PCM (like a switch for the OBD II checks). Apparently, my 00 Vic's tune had the OBD-II and MIL tests disabled from the get-go, which explains why I never got a DTC (even when the cats were on fire or my gas cap wasn't even closing properly) and why Car Code never reported any completed emissions drive cycles.

There could very well be a parameter for the coolant fail-safe system. Dennis might know, or you would have to ask SCT directly and hopefully get a straight answer.

FYI the late model Fords have drive by wire systems (electronic throttle bodies) with multiple parameters that are NOT accessible by PRP users or certain SCT dealers due to SCT policy. So there are "hidden" parameters in the tunes.