Rear end whine 55-60 mph only. Anyone else have it?

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

Hi guys, my 24k mile Marauder has a very minor rear end whine, 55-60 mph only. You can only hear it during this range of speeds. Does anyone else's car do this? I don't want to take it to the dealer and have them make it worse if this is a "normal" sound that I am just going to have to live with. My car just had the rear axle shafts/bearings/seals replaced, so it's not that. I don't want the dealer replacing carrier bearings or messing with the gears, because that is probably going to make things worse.

[mrjones]

I also just had all the bearings, seals and the gears replaced in my car, and now it whines. It's not normal.

[DEFYANT]

The fix for this is a set of MagnaFlows and delete tips :D

[Dennis Reinhart]

Hi guys, my 24k mile Marauder has a very minor rear end whine, 55-60 mph only. You can only hear it during this range of speeds. Does anyone else's car do this? I don't want to take it to the dealer and have them make it worse if this is a "normal" sound that I am just going to have to live with. My car just had the rear axle shafts/bearings/seals replaced, so it's not that. I don't want the dealer replacing carrier bearings or messing with the gears, because that is probably going to make things worse.


This could be either improper back lash or pinion depth or it could be the gears them selves.

[MERCMAN]

^^^^^^ What he said, I had the axles replaced because of the whine, then after replacement it still continued. It went back into the shop for backlash adjustment and it disappeared.

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

DR, I agree it's in the ring/pinion set up, but these are factory gears so you wouldn't think at 24k that I would be having a problem with them behind a totally stock car that has seen all highway miles. Even if it is ring/pinion setup is the dealer really going to be able to do anything under warranty? I don't want them installing new carrier bearings and throwing the rear setup off even more and then being screwed.

Mercman, was the backlash adjusted by the dealer or a custom/speed shop?

[Drock96Marquis]

Since they are original, your issue is likely not the gears.
The installer probably did not set the backlash or pinion depth correctly, often it is just a matter of reshimming the carrier. Have the pinion pre-load checked at the same time - if it is too high DO NOT back off on the torque. The pinion must be removed and a new crush sleeve put in place.

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

Can a dealer check pinion depth and backlash? I have a dial indicator w/ mag base and can check backlash myself, but pinion depth requires fancy tools I don't have.

[Dennis Reinhart]

Can a dealer check pinion depth and backlash? I have a dial indicator w/ mag base and can check backlash myself, but pinion depth requires fancy tools I don't have.

You can check back lash with a dial indic I set them for about .011 pinion depth can easily be checked with the Rotuda tool at the dealer or by checking a wear patern with dye on the gears

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

Alright I'll have to go into the dealer and tell them to check pinion depth and backlash, and I'm sure the service guy will look at me funny and ask, but what's wrong with your car?

[Marauderjack]

All of my CV's and the Marauder have had a speed specific light whine between 55-65 MPH....Above or below completely quiet!!:cool:

I did notice that the Marauder became a bit louder and the whine speed moved up a little when I installed the DynoTech shaft (58-64 MPH)!!:argue: I called DynoTech and the tech told me that they fill the shaft with a sound dampening material but that aluminum drive shafts unfortunately transmit sound better than steel!!:rolleyes:

All moving parts assemblies have harmonic points and I believe that is the case here.....I don't even pay attention anymore!!:beer:

BTW: Somewhere along the way I heard that Lincoln gears were quieter so I checked with my dealer and found CV's, MM's, GM's and Town Cars ALL use the same part number for 3.55's?? So I guess they don't sell "quiet" Lincoln sets anymore??:confused:

Marauderjack:burnout:

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

Marauderjack. THANK YOU!! Good to know somebody is paying attention to my specific situation. Yes it is only at exactly 55-60 mph. The whine is pretty quiet but noticeable (I notice everything that is not "right" with a car after I have been driving it for a while). It is dead silent below 55 and above 60. Good thing I don't drive the speed limit. I believe you about the aluminum shafts having something to do with us hearing the whine. I am going to check backlash myself and paste the gears just for ha has, I bet I won't find anything unusual though.

[Vortech347]

Mine whines a hair at 60. But only after I put in the 3.73's. I got them pretty close but not close enough I guess...

[whd507]

I thought mine was tires, but it didnt change much when the new tires were installed, now I'm sure its gears, but ny noise is in a broader range.

[mrjones]

Mine now has about 2K miles on it since the gears were replaced, and the whine has gotten much louder over the last 500 miles or so. I'm pretty sure that mine is a problem with the pinion depth. I hope my dealer is going to fix it.

[whd507]

mine is sitting on the lift at the dealer right now... the only thing still useable is the axle housing. (and the brakes) waiting on new carrier assy, axles etc. the tech had the gears out on loan to show to somebody I think, so I assume they were razor sharp... We assume that the previous owner thought it was a normal noise.

[MENINBLK]

Hi guys, my 24k mile Marauder has a very minor rear end whine, 55-60 mph only. You can only hear it during this range of speeds. Does anyone else's car do this? I don't want to take it to the dealer and have them make it worse if this is a "normal" sound that I am just going to have to live with. My car just had the rear axle shafts/bearings/seals replaced, so it's not that. I don't want the dealer replacing carrier bearings or messing with the gears, because that is probably going to make things worse.

WHINE IN REAR = NO OIL !!!
Have it checked ASAP !!!!

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

Um, no, not that kind of whine. I'm a pretty capable DIY mechanic (and an engineer) I would know if it had no oil in it. This is barely audible gear whine you'd expect from not perfectly set up gears. Most people would not notice it at all, but I am very picky.The rear is full. LOL. Please don't throw information like this around if you have no idea. The guys who said pinion depth/lash are probably right on. I have had aftermarket gears w/ too much backlash whine a little under load. Like this rear is doing, except usually aftermarket gears I've had in other cars, like Richmonds, are more pronounced if they are not dead nuts on perfect.

[Blue03]

My 95 GM LX HPP has a small whine at 58 to 62 mph but I haven't noticed it in my MM. The GM had it when I bought the car with 43K in 96. Still has it and its never leaked or been low on fluid. I now have 142K on her. I always thought the first 43K must have mostly been highway miles at around 60 mph (was that in the 55mph days?)...and it kinda just wore in that way. But hey thats my story and I'm sticking to it. I guess I'm not gonna spend money to find out why and just haven't spent much time lingering around 60 mph. That said the the dif will probably fall off and splat on the driveway when I head to work tomorrow. :)

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

It turns out after a long 6 hour round trip that the whine is actually present at all forward speeds above 30 mph, at light throttle only. It is most noticeable 50mph on up, only on the gas at just the right light amount. If you play with the pedal you can get it to whine loud enough, constantly, that my wife was asking me what the noise was. I'm going to send it into the dealer tomorrow and ask them to check pinion depth and backlash, I have an ESP extracare warranty. Hopefully they reset and it's quieter.

[Eric91Z]

I had this on my car and took it in with around 32000 miles on it. Like you said, only someone that drives the car all the time would notice. It was there at steady state speed, but go away when I would let off the gas.

Took it in and got new gears. Car is back to normal now. Doesn't matter much since it is going in to see Lidio in a couple of weeks for 4.10's.

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

Thanks. It's great to know that even though Ford uses a 50+ year old rear end design, they still can't set up gears. There is very little about this car that isn't 30 year old Detroit technology, you'd think they'd get it right.

[Drock96Marquis]

If no issues are found.....
Ford released a 3.55 RAR rear axle whine kit, which includes new gears cut for quieter operation. On some applications the installed 3.55 gears would whine (Even when setup properly) because of the cut, similar to some aftermarket r&ps. I have a part number around here somewhere.....

[Drock96Marquis]

Found my kit's install sheets;


5L3Z-4209-B 8.8" axle whine 3.55 service kit

INcludes all new seals and bearings (excluding axle bearings and seals), slinger, revised 3.55 gearset with pinion nut and crush sleeve

75w-140, Friction Modifier, and RTV for diff cover are not included in kit and required for install

For all 8.8"

[04MRADR]

:cool: Just had something similar to this on my Marauder. Have 62,000 miles on it and a similar noise started last week. Went to my mechanic and he said it was my exhaust! Took it out on I-95 in Philly, wound it up to 60 when the noise started and shut off the overdrive. The engine revved up to about 3,000 RPM and the sound disappeared! Did it several times and each time it disappeared. My mechanic assured me this is a good way to test a car's exhaust for problems. Only dilemma now is which muffler do I get? Went to the Hooters in Bensalem, PA. last Saturday and one of the guys had Thrush Cherry Bombs 2. Real nice!

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

Getting out of overdrive will get rid of the whine, you are not lugging the gears anymore, it is not my exhaust. LOL. wow. One guy thinks I have no oil and another my mufflers. Next it will be my blinker fluid and muffler bearings!! Thanks for the part #, I'll relay that to the dealer, and I am sure they will think I am insane.

[whd507]

that is the kit my dealer used, very nice now. quiet.

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

I gave the dealer the part # this morning, who knows if they'll actually do anything, we will find out. I can't believe such a noisy gearset came in a car stock. I have nasty worn out 30 year old gears that don't make any noise.

[RUSTY]

Getting out of overdrive will get rid of the whine, you are not lugging the gears anymore, it is not my exhaust. LOL. wow. One guy thinks I have no oil and another my mufflers. Next it will be my blinker fluid and muffler bearings!! Thanks for the part #, I'll relay that to the dealer, and I am sure they will think I am insane.


Nice of them to post a response to your thread,Don't you think?

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

I have the car at the dealer now, they have admit it is the rear axle whine. However, they also don't think my newly purchased Extra Care ESP is going to pay for replacing gears that are not visibly damaged or failing, just noisy. They have to send an inspector out from ESP to "approve" any repair over a certain potential $ amount. I thought the Ford ESP would be worth having, it looks like they are out to screw you just like the aftermarket warranties. Now I'm going to get charged $300 just for "diagnostics". I could have told them the parts would "look" okay. What a waste of money.

[SamF]

I have the car at the dealer now, they have admit it is the rear axle whine. However, they also don't think my newly purchased Extra Care ESP is going to pay for replacing gears that are not visibly damaged or failing, just noisy. They have to send an inspector out from ESP to "approve" any repair over a certain potential $ amount. I thought the Ford ESP would be worth having, it looks like they are out to screw you just like the aftermarket warranties. Now I'm going to get charged $300 just for "diagnostics". I could have told them the parts would "look" okay. What a waste of money.

$300 would get you well on the way to a new set of axles/bearings and gearset adjustment...

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

Axles/bearings are already new. If they don't replace the gears I will do it and set them up myself. Frieking huge waste of time, I hope this car doesn't ever need to go into a dealership for service if I can help it.

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

UPDATE: The dealer reset the lash and pinion depth, at my cost since the piece of crap Extra Care ESP won't cover it (I think I am going to cancel ESP, it is worthless to me). The gears are 100 times louder now than they were before. Now they whine at highway speeds no matter what the load. Awesome. I should have known better than to have a dealer touch gears. I'm going to see if I have any recourse with them that I don't have to pay for, otherwise I am going to install the 3.55 gear whine set myself. I haven't owned this car that long and I want to sell it already.

[StevenJ]

UPDATE: The dealer reset the lash and pinion depth, at my cost since the piece of crap Extra Care ESP won't cover it (I think I am going to cancel ESP, it is worthless to me). The gears are 100 times louder now than they were before. Now they whine at highway speeds no matter what the load. Awesome. I should have known better than to have a dealer touch gears. I'm going to see if I have any recourse with them that I don't have to pay for, otherwise I am going to install the 3.55 gear whine set myself. I haven't owned this car that long and I want to sell it already.

Did you even bother to check if the oil level was low? It has been known to cause this issue. Hey, if you got that service done at at dealer, it is warrantied for at least one year. Try to bring it back and have them look at it again. You sure it isn't your tires too? I have KDW2s on my rears and they whine at certain speeds. I hear some whine when I am in light throttle in first gear but that's it. I got FRPP 4.10s too installed by a Ford Master Tech.

[RCSignals]

UPDATE: The dealer reset the lash and pinion depth, at my cost since the piece of crap Extra Care ESP won't cover it (I think I am going to cancel ESP, it is worthless to me). The gears are 100 times louder now than they were before. Now they whine at highway speeds no matter what the load. Awesome. I should have known better than to have a dealer touch gears. I'm going to see if I have any recourse with them that I don't have to pay for, otherwise I am going to install the 3.55 gear whine set myself. I haven't owned this car that long and I want to sell it already.


I too think you should sell this car. You obviously are not happy with it, and it's only going to drive you crazy.

[RCSignals]

Found my kit's install sheets;


5L3Z-4209-B 8.8" axle whine 3.55 service kit

INcludes all new seals and bearings (excluding axle bearings and seals), slinger, revised 3.55 gearset with pinion nut and crush sleeve

75w-140, Friction Modifier, and RTV for diff cover are not included in kit and required for install

For all 8.8"

Is it just a kit, or was there a TSB that goes with it?
a TSB would at least help justify a tech installing it as opposed to a customer request to replace a gear set that is otherwise functioning and perfect looking.

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

RCSignals, I am not selling the car, no thanks for your input on that. If you think these cars are too perfect to complain about, you are living in some sort of fairy land. It must be nice there. I intend to enjoy this car, and to do that am going to have to fix some issues that are bothering me about it. I am a stickler for quality and it takes a little time to find it with a car like this sometimes. I understand giving me a hard time in the community discussion section, but this is my legitimate tech post, so lay off with your non tech comments.

There is not a TSB as far as I am aware for the Marauder gear whine. The Explorer and Mountaineer with the exact same gear set, w/ 3.55s, DOES have a TSB. Go figure.

Here's the gear whine TSB for the suv's w/ the same gears.

http://www.ford-trucks.com/tsb/fulltext/show_article.php?tsb=05-23-3

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

I ended up finding the 5L3Z-4209-B 8.8" axle whine 3.55 service kit on ebay for only $169. Yeah. LOL. The guy thought it was a regular set of the cheapie gears. I priced this same kit out at $450 at the dealer. Gear time.

[Raudermaster]

RCSignals, I am not selling the car, no thanks for your input on that. If you think these cars are too perfect to complain about, you are living in some sort of fairy land. It must be nice there.

Get off your high horse like this is the worst car you have ever owned, and like you're some sort of Car and Driver expert who's testing the car. What car IS perfect that doesn't have their little B/S problems? Hell, I own a *****ing SHO. Do you realize how much of a PITA that car is? Why don't you just do the gears yourself and stop wasting your time with a dealer? Or if you can't, take it to a reputable Performance shop and have them do it.

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

I am doing the gears myself. Thanks for the implied profanity. Wow you guys are an interesting bunch. It's like I'm insulting your kids or something. It's a car for crying out loud, don't get bent out of shape over it. Last time I checked, this is the tech forum, for asking tech questions, not for little nonsense replies to my posts like yours.

[Raudermaster]

What do you expect when all of your posts consist of nothing but ranting on how many problems your MM has, ON a site designated for the Mercury Marauder. You remind me of a few people on other Panther sites that do nothing but put the Panther line underneath a bus.

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

Is it your guys time of the month or something? Should I come back next week? Jeez

[RF Overlord]

OK, kids...that's enough.

VEB has as much right as the next guy to complain about his problems...he's not saying the car is junk, just b!tchin about the gear issue he's had.

VEB, I would take the car back to the dealer and tell them to make it right, or at least make it the way it was before they touched it, and on THEIR dime. If they refuse, then blacklist them and ask the local Mustang guys who they use. Or DIY, if you have the right tools.

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

RF thanks for ending the banter. The problem with the dealer making it the way it was before they touched it, as that they jacked with adjusting the pinion depth and backlash. Anything other than the stock settings are going to be noisy because the gears have worn that way for 25k miles. I don't think they are going to remember how much they shimmed each adjustment, and from the way they dealt with me before I don't think they really care. If the car goes down the road it's good as far as they are concerned. I am going to DIY the gears with the revised 3.55 quiet gear set and hope for the best.

[RCSignals]

RCSignals, I am not selling the car, no thanks for your input on that. If you think these cars are too perfect to complain about, you are living in some sort of fairy land. It must be nice there. I intend to enjoy this car, and to do that am going to have to fix some issues that are bothering me about it. I am a stickler for quality and it takes a little time to find it with a car like this sometimes. I understand giving me a hard time in the community discussion section, but this is my legitimate tech post, so lay off with your non tech comments.

Funny, from the guy himself who doesn't like snide and useless 'non tech' comments.

Show me anywhere that I've said the car is 'perfect'.

I'm serious, you have too many problems with the car to be happy, and no one should let anything make them self that miserable.

[RCSignals]

There is not a TSB as far as I am aware for the Marauder gear whine. The Explorer and Mountaineer with the exact same gear set, w/ 3.55s, DOES have a TSB. Go figure.

Here's the gear whine TSB for the suv's w/ the same gears.

http://www.ford-trucks.com/tsb/fulltext/show_article.php?tsb=05-23-3

It could actually be because the whine hasn't been reported or reported enough as a problem with the CV/GM/MM/TC line.

the TSB also refers to rear ratios that typically are not used in the CV/GM/MM/TC other than 3.55 which is limited use in those cars.

The different fluid used may also have something to do with the quieting effect.

I agree your gear set has by now worn in to a set pattern, but 25K miles isn't that much on a set of gears and should still be able to be adjusted to remove some noise.

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

I don't think the gear whine from the MM could statistically become a TSB because there just aren't enough of our cars made. Plus most of you guys put loud exhausts on them and can't hear the gears anyway!! I am also young and have great hearing. I am keeping the stock exhaust, this is supposed to be my quiet highway car. They all run the 75-140 as a refill fluid. 25k miles as far as a gear wear pattern is concerned is pretty significant. I am going to have the dealer play with it one more time on friday, but I am fully expecting to have to install the 5L3Z-4209-B kit I just bought. We shall see. At least it's not a FWD transaxle whine (had that too), because that is way out of my capability to repair. Once I have the new gears in I will be a happy camper.

[RCSignals]

Yes between replacement exhaust systems, Super Chargers, Stereos etc most wouldn't hear a gear whine unless it was significant.

If you have the new gear kit, why even let the dealer play with the original set again?
Maybe have them install it instead of adjusting the current ones.

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

LOL I make things difficult. They discussed refunding the $250 they charged me to adjust the gears, if they can't get them to be quiet. That will have more than paid for my replacement gear set if that is the case.

[Marauderjack]

Yes between replacement exhaust systems, Super Chargers, Stereos etc most wouldn't hear a gear whine unless it was significant.

If you have the new gear kit, why even let the dealer play with the original set again?
Maybe have them install it instead of adjusting the current ones.

Don't forget the DynoTech drive shafts......I had almost no gear whine until I put one in and now it is pronounced between 58-65 MPH under load......all quiet above and below that range!!:confused:

DynoTech guy said they fill the shafts with sound deadening material but their shafts do transmit more sound than stock!!:cool:

Marauderjack:burnout:

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

I have heard about the dynotech shafts amplifying the stock noisy 3.55s. I have a stock shaft, and for that reason, will not use an aftermarket shaft. There's no way I'm going to break the stock shaft.

[RCSignals]

You should be fine with the stock shaft. If you do anything you could have the balance checked.

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

The stock shafts on these cars are huge, I bet most people who swap out for an aftermarket one don't "need" the upgrade for strength. I won't change it until I break it.

[Marauderjack]

My DynoTech shaft is the same size as stock and is the "Economy" version...will only take 600 RWHP....I think!!:beer:

It is way smoother than OEM and only $350.00 I think??:confused: I got new U-joints and slip yoke so by the time I re-balanced my OEM and replaced U-joints I figured the DynoTech shaft was a good deal??:cool:

Oh.....And, yes it is smooth at and above 100 MPH (Private Track here in "Da Boonies")!!!!:beer: :bows: :D

Marauderjack:burnout:

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

I have some slight harmonic vibes that I think is my stock shaft but that is another issue for another day. I have to limit taking things apart to one thing at a time or the car will never go again.

[RCSignals]

My DynoTech shaft is the same size as stock and is the "Economy" version...will only take 600 RWHP....I think!!:beer:

It is way smoother than OEM and only $350.00 I think??:confused: I got new U-joints and slip yoke so by the time I re-balanced my OEM and replaced U-joints I figured the DynoTech shaft was a good deal??:cool:

Oh.....And, yes it is smooth at and above 100 MPH (Private Track here in "Da Boonies")!!!!:beer: :bows: :D

Marauderjack:burnout:

Why would you have to replace the slip yoke and u-joints of the stock shaft just to have it balanced?

Unless they are worn they should be fine.

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

I think some places can actually balance the shaft with the yoke on it. The as-cast yoke, although close to the centerline, can theoretically contribute to an imbalance. It shouldn't be much though.

[RCSignals]

I know drive shafts have been balance with the yoke in place.

If for some reason it can't be, and it's deemed important, the yoke could be balanced separately.

[Marauderjack]

Why would you have to replace the slip yoke and u-joints of the stock shaft just to have it balanced?

Unless they are worn they should be fine.

Well......

With 75K miles on it and having it out......wouldn't you naturally replace the u-joints??:confused: I would!!:rolleyes:

The DynoTech shaft was for me regardless......:beer:

We've been down the "Harmonic Wobble" road many times before and Ford would not limit the top speed with 3.55 gears unless they saw a problem with the stock drive train (shaft)!!:shake:

Anybody want my OEM shaft to rebalance and screw around with.....I'll give to ya for the shipping!!:D

Marauderjack:burnout:

[RCSignals]

yes 75K miles would be enough.

Drive shaft whipping is one thing, simple harmonics is another.

I'm not so sure the only reason Ford set the speed limit as it did due to the shaft. Ford seems to always be very conservative in these settings.

the shafts can be balanced beyond the factory balance.

[Marauderjack]

RC.....

I don't remember exactly what the DynoTech guy told me but I think the OEM shaft is balanced and checked at 3500 RPM's while theirs is balanced at 6500 RPM's??:confused:

It sounded OK to me and worth the money for peace of mind!!:beer:

Remember how we argued with Mac about the shaft harmonics?? Where the HELL is he anyway??:cool:

I do know the car is a bunch smoother at all speeds!!:bows:

Marauderjack:burnout:

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

Marauderjack, no thanks on the shaft offer! My stock one is already giving me the "shaft". LOL I am going to see if a d/s shop will balance my stocker to a higher rpm rating, otherwise maybe there is something in an aftermarket shaft for me.

Aren't the CVPI shafts balanced for higher rpms for pursuit use? Can't I just get a CVPI shaft?

[RCSignals]

RC.....

I don't remember exactly what the DynoTech guy told me but I think the OEM shaft is balanced and checked at 3500 RPM's while theirs is balanced at 6500 RPM's??:confused:

It sounded OK to me and worth the money for peace of mind!!:beer:

Remember how we argued with Mac about the shaft harmonics?? Where the HELL is he anyway??:cool:

I do know the car is a bunch smoother at all speeds!!:bows:

Marauderjack:burnout:

with your set up it's worth the peace of mind. :)

Yes I remember the long discussion(s) about harmonics and whipping, and the ultra expensive steel shaft from SHMS :eek:

I'm thinking Mac is gone for the long haul

[RCSignals]

Marauderjack, no thanks on the shaft offer! My stock one is already giving me the "shaft". LOL I am going to see if a d/s shop will balance my stocker to a higher rpm rating, otherwise maybe there is something in an aftermarket shaft for me.

Aren't the CVPI shafts balanced for higher rpms for pursuit use? Can't I just get a CVPI shaft?

The CVPI aluminum shaft is the same, although there was a AMMX shaft used in CVPIs for a few years.