Holding out for an '04

[JohnnyB]

Having owned a black car in the past, I am holding out until the '04 model year so I can choose either the pearl blue or silver color. A moonrooof would be nice also. In addition, the November 2001 issue of HOt Rod magazine featured an article on the MM, and stated that Mercury is aware of the lack of power and that there will be a power/performance upgrade for 2004........


who knows???

[Leadfoot]

So, when do you actually buy one? Every year there are improvements. They may add more hp one year and better handling the next.

[JohnnyB]

Usually wait a couple of years until they get the bugs out of the new model....

[piglet]

I was much like JohnnyB is right now. Wait till next year and see if this baby will actually launch you into orbit.

Well after reading and driving one I had to have it. If they come out with a Super Charger for next year then maybe I will have to have it as well. But for me right now this was what I wanted.

[Smokie]

If you don't want a black car I can understand waiting, other than that reason, I'm not sure what you expect to see different, the basic plattform is not new and is tried and proven, I don't have any inside info but I don't believe you will see a blown MM in 04' or any other year for that matter, I don't believe Mercury has the 'nads to build a true "muscle" car, but the MM. is actually very much fun to drive and own. Life is short. Take the plunge.

[RancorKeeper]

If they make any drivetrain upgrades, especially via a supercharger, I can guarantee (well, actually I can't guarantee it, but you know what I mean :rolleyes: ) the price the will go up & I personally think $35K is already a little steep.

[JerseyVics]

I'm buying a 2005 Grand Marquis LSE along with an Allen Engine Development kit with some Kenny Brown upgrades.

If there's a few grand left over I'll get the Marauder front and rear bumpers, spoiler and door mouldings (along with the rear fascia and tail lights....


Would fool everyone I see with a White Marauder thats actualy as fast or faster than the original.... lets see how it goes, lol

--Russ:D

PS. the only reason for this plan is that I'm broke at the moment, if I had the cash like many of you do, I'd have done most of this already, just so I can be one of the first people to do it!:p

[JohnnyB]

Maybe Mercury will add a supercharger. Supposedly, the Marauder is in the line up for the long term.

[MAD-3R]

I hope that FORD lets the SVT team have a go at the Crown Vic. Hmmm yeah.

[JohnnyB]

They should build a stripped down version of the Crown Vic, add a supercharged engine and call it the Galaxy 500......

[Geo]

These are the things I suspect Ford may change to the Panther (1979) platform in the future:

I suspect that the Crown Vic and Grand Marquis will get updated sheetmetal to bring it forward as the existing sheetmetal dates back to the 1992 model year (the 98 Crown Vic got the 1992-vintage Grand Marquis sheetmetal in favor of the 92-97 'Vic sheetmetal; I move that I didn't exactly agree with). From what I had heard in the past, the body "may" grow wider and longer, much like the move GM took on the "GM300" version of the B-body which bowed in 1991.

As far as power is concerned, the only thing I look forward to is a V10 6.8L version. Personally, I think the reliability of a sohc V10 would be better than a force-fed DOHC 32V Romeo V8 but that is just my opinion; don't forget the fact that FoMoCo was blowing up all the test mules for the 03 Mustang Cobra which has the same engine with the supercharger. The problem was that the Cobra's prototypes called for alluminum blocks and heads. The production 03 Cobra has a cast-iron block to solve the problem (i'm not sure about the heads). However, what does this say about reliability. Certainly, personal attention in the aftermarket may improve reliability, but from a production point of view, I'm not too sure.

Ford says that the 5.8L (352 Cleveland) wouldn't meet emissions (unless it was supercharged which acts like an air pump). Saleen still offers the supercharged 352 but with a less taxed driveline (manual tranny). Ford says the 5.4 (330cid) won't fit in any configuration as it is too wide. The 6.8 (412cid) seems to fit just fine and is slated for Police Interceptor application some time in the near future. Certainly a healthy sohc V10 would get better fuel economy than a supercharged DOHC 32V motor with less reliability-critical moving parts.

Ford has a habit for leaving the obvious for last. Look at the 03 Cobra, this idea of a supercharged 4.6 DOHC 32V was shown in the Mach III concept car in 1992 (recently auctioned) but that sucker was pushing 450hp.

I also think that anybody with a Marauder should consider Ford's update package for the 98-02 Crown Vic Interceptors which protect the gas tank which is sandwiched betweeen the large trunk wall and the axle housing. Part of the Interceptor update includes a trunk organizer which keeps sharp objects that police officers often carry secure. These objects may otherwise project into the gas tank during a high-speed impact. The nice thing is that the Marauder comes with such an option.

The other update is additions to the axle shafts and to the gas tank itself to "cushion" the two components so that they don't collide together and cause an explosion and/or fire.

The NHTSA has also said that they will raise the rear-impact speed tests from 30mph to 50mph next year.


Geo

[JohnnyB]

They should offer a supercharged 4.6 as an option. I read an article which stated that Mercury will be doing a feature car program with the Maruader later in the '03 model year and going forward. We'll see....

[03 Merc]

Geo,

The Marauder supposedly has some specific suspension parts that may preclude the use of the PI "updates"...that and the 03 frame changed... BTW our trunk organizers are molded plastic that are really nice but won't do squat in an accident except maybe shatter..

The Georgia HP guys that were admiring my Marauder (At a show not a roadside visit!) want to trade their CV's in for one...:D

[MAD-3R]

I have a friend who is a Senior Fire Marshall With the county, and they have 03 Vic PI's. Under the body, they are Marauders. Same upgraded suspension, and fixes to the gas tank. I think they still run the SOHC 4.6, mainly for maintance reasons. He also mentioned that he has been hearing noises from his ford reps, that ford maybe concidering dropping the entire line, much like GM did.

I ALMOST hope so. Makes our Marauders serios colletor items. :) But I would rather see them continue.

Oh, and if travleing in Fairfax County here in Virginia, they do run Camaro's with full police markings.

[cyclone03]

I think the V10 is the secret performance engine in Fords line up.
It seems to fit every place Ford uses the 5.4 in.
We just need some RPM capable intakes and cams,that would be great!

Now the problem,C.A.F.E.
The 5.4 in my 2000 HD F150 would get 18mpg on the highway.BUT jump off the freeway and drive around town,or let that sucker idle and it seemed to drop to 15-16.
The V10 just idleing would kill the EPA mileage.
I don't know what MPG kicks in the Gas Guzler Tax but the Mustang Cobra has $1000 tax added on.

Now for another fun "what if" how about an RPM tuned (not truck like) 5.4 DOHC?
I'm sure we could see 400 NA HP from that.

If I remember right Ford switched to the Cast Iron block in the Super Charged Cobra because the Aluminum block wouldn't hold up to 100 hours at 390 hp at what ever RPM that happens at.
I don't think the engine in our Marauders will have any problems at 302 HP.I'm sure it could handle 350,or more.

[Leadfoot]

Originally posted by Smokie
...the basic plattform is not new and is tried and proven...

The front of the chassis (frame and suspension) are all new for 2003.


Part of the Interceptor update includes a trunk organizer which keeps sharp objects that police officers often carry secure.

The PI trunk organizer is Kevlar reinforced.


Certainly, personal attention in the aftermarket may improve reliability, but from a production point of view, I'm not too sure.

I haven't seen any aftermarket product which would increase reliability. All of them either reduce it or don't change it. The 03 Cobra block was changed to iron (Aluminum heads kept) because it wouldn't last the 150,000 mile limit Ford wants. Don't expect any aftermarket supercharged engine to last that long.


I have a friend who is a Senior Fire Marshall With the county, and they have 03 Vic PI's. Under the body, they are Marauders.

Frame and suspension are different between the PI and Marauder.


I think the V10 is the secret performance engine in Fords line up. It seems to fit every place Ford uses the 5.4 in.

The V10 and 5.4 L are only used in trucks (except the 2000 Cobra R) which have more engine compartment room. I have seen the Lightning engine (supercharged 5.4 L) in Mustangs before. The top of the engine is literally at least up to the middle of the windshield. Ford stated it couldn't use the 5.4 L in production Mustangs because it was too wide. They insert the engine from underneath the body and it won't fit passed the wheelwells. It may be true for other vehicles as well.


If I remember right Ford switched to the Cast Iron block in the Super Charged Cobra because the Aluminum block wouldn't hold up to 100 hours at 390 hp at what ever RPM that happens at. I don't think the engine in our Marauders will have any problems at 302 HP. I'm sure it could handle 350,or more.

The 03 Cobras are underrated and I have seen stock ones dyno at about 430 hp or more at the flywheel. I'm sure Ford was afraid of repeating the 99 Cobra mistake which turned out about 20 hp less than they originally advertised.

As soon as you start increasing hp, engine life will decrease. My engine is very similar to yours and I have over 500 hp. I don't expect it to last 150,000 miles.

[cyclone03]

Leadfoot,I know the 5.4 and V10 are currently used only in trucks.
I was doing some dreaming here.
The V10 will fit in a 96up Mustang,I've seen it.
Being the 5.4 and the 4.6DOHC are about the same width I'm sure a 5.4 (SOHC) will fit in the same space as the 4.6DOHC.I've also seen a 5.4DOHC in a 2001 Cobra so these things are posible.

I would like to see a V10 in the F150 too.
Ford has some great engines they just need to spread them out a little.

I know we would have to move the big ol AC box in the engine compartment an use Hydro-boost on the power brakes to get a 5.4 DOHC in the Marauder but after some tuning 350-400hp would be a lot of fun.

Truth is I'm sure the biggest problem will be gas mileage.
Would a Maruader sell that only gets 14-20mpg?

Still it would be fun.

[MAD-3R]

If Ford comes up with the Mercury Version of SVT, and released a revamped couger I think they will.

Or put that package on the Crown Vic WITH the SVT.

[Logan]

Originally posted by cyclone03
If I remember right Ford switched to the Cast Iron block in the Super Charged Cobra because the Aluminum block wouldn't hold up to 100 hours at 390 hp at what ever RPM that happens at.
I don't think the engine in our Marauders will have any problems at 302 HP.I'm sure it could handle 350,or more.

Ford switched blocks in the cobra because iron blocks are cheaper than aluminum blocks. Anything other reason is just a PR spin. The aluminum blocks are good well north of 600hp...

The weak point in the mod motors has always been the rods. Ford put manley H beams in the 03 cobra, so they're finally listening.

[cyclone03]

Logan,So you think Ford "needed" the Cobra to come in under $35k?
I don't know,I think Ford liked the idea,PR wise,to have an all aluminum V8, and did everything they could to make that happen.Then with the supercharger on top something happened in the bottom end that wouldn't give them 150000 miles at full power (or whatever).The switch to iron hurt a little.

I know we could build 600hp 4.6's (or pay somebody)but would it run everyday for 150000 miles?
Ford could tweek a normally asperated 4.6 to 350-400hp very easiely.
I wish they would.

[MAD-3R]

What I have heard/read, was that under heavy load, heavy torque and high temps, the aluminium blocks start to deform. The ironblock is stronger under load.

[JohnnyB]

I heard the same.....

[Logan]

The loads they're talking about are more than you or I will ever will run...

[BISHOPSS95]

Tell that to my LS1. It rocks.

:D

[Leadfoot]

Originally posted by Logan
Ford switched blocks in the cobra because iron blocks are cheaper than aluminum blocks. Anything other reason is just a PR spin. The aluminum blocks are good well north of 600hp...

The aluminum block is capable of 1300 hp in the right hands. I doubt you will get 150,000 miles on that engine - even if you only drive it on Sundays a 1/4 mile at a time.

Iron blocks are heavier and a detriment to gas mileage. With a $1000 gas guzzler tax on each Cobra, Ford would be interested in every bit of gas mileage improvement. I have reliable sources that say it was switched to iron for longevity and not cost. If costs were so important, they would have also switched the heads to iron. I'm not looking for an arguement. I just have heard otherwise.


Originally posted by Logan
The weak point in the mod motors has always been the rods. Ford put manley H beams in the 03 cobra, so they're finally listening.

The hypereutectic pistons are also a weak link. Usually, the #7 cylinder ring land is the first to go. Ford changed them to forged pistons for 03. I don't remember who makes them.


Originally posted by cyclone03
I know the 5.4 and V10 are currently used only in trucks.
I was doing some dreaming here.
The V10 will fit in a 96up Mustang,I've seen it.

I wasn't trying to shoot you down or anything. Now that you mention it, I think I've heard about a V10 in a stang. But, I meant from a production standpoint, the 5.4 and V10 is too difficult to install in a stang at the rate they produce them. The 2000 Cobra R has the 5.4 and it only needs about a 4"? cowl hood (I have no idea - 4" is a guess). The 5.4 engines were installed by hand and not on the production line.

The C/V and G/M engine compartments look much larger. But, the bodies are dropped on the frame from above. The engines are on the frame at the time. Therefore, the engine would have to fit passed the wheelwells also. This is from a production standpoint only. I'm sure almost any engine will fit in there.

[Grand_Marquis]

I think they should have done that this year, instead of having it for 2004. :rolleyes:

[Geo]

A friend of mine told me that he read somewhere in one of the current Ford magazines (Super Fords or Fast Fords or something like that) that there is someone out there offering 429 Ford big blocks (carburated or fuel injected!) that will drop in place where ever a 4.6 DOHC 32V V8 resides! Sounds tasty (that'll solve anyones mourn for torque!).

If I find out more, I let you all know (warranty? What's that?)

Geo

[Grand_Marquis]

Originally posted by Geo
( carburated or fuel injected!)

Carburated??? That would be cool for drag. :cool: I doubt they will use carbeurators though...