Virginia Tech Campus Shooting

[ctrlraven]

UNREAL!

What in the world is wrong with these people?!?!?!?

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/16/vtech.shooting/index.html
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,266310,00.html

Up to 32 confirmed dead now and lots of injuries.

Prayers go out to the people and families on this sad day.

[Breadfan]

I was just going to post something, I heard this morning about it but that it was 1 person, thought perhaps it was a fight or something, but now 32 confirmed dead and another "rampage" shooting. :(

Wow, kinda close to home, I didn't go there but knew plenty who did...

[High-C]

Many of my dear friends are graduates of VA Tech and I have very fond memories of visiting that school several times during my college years... My younger sister is a recent Radford Grad and still has friends going to school at Tech... I ask that everyone keep the students and their families in their thoughts and prayers... What a terrible tragedy...

[ctrlraven]

Yeah I have several friends that go there currently, already called some and others already called me.

[Master]

Man, this is just sad! I've nothing against guns, but if people can't start taking control for themselves, maybe it is time we looked at much better and stricter controls.

[MM2004]

Just heard about this.

Prayers sent to the victims and everyone impacted by this tragedy.

Mike.

[offroadkarter]

This is the 2nd crisis that has happend recently there, last year some escaped convict with a gun was running around campus. I know some people there.


Crazy place

[magindat]

:shake:
Sicko.
Who wants to take bets it was over a GIRL?!

[High-C]

:shake:
Sicko.
Who wants to take bets it was over a GIRL?!

My money is with your opinion... They say there was an initial shooting at the dorm first... that was my first thought...

[Breadfan]

Also in the engineering dept...maybe he flunked out or something?

Still very sad... :(

[RCSignals]

Man, this is just sad! I've nothing against guns, but if people can't start taking control for themselves, maybe it is time we looked at much better and stricter controls.

controls on people of course.

[cyclopsram]

I suppose there was some arcane rule which would not allow students to carry arms to protect themselves...Only needed one to shoot back and minimize the slaughter...Hours go by and nobody would jump the guy while he was reloading...Safe use of weapons should be taught in grammar school and there should be shooting clubs in every high school and college courses in gunsmithing... So many folks are afraid of firearms and just put their heads in the sand when it comes to proper training and use... But remember...we kill 40 thousand a year in car wrecks... most of them by inexperienced drivers and those under the influence of drugs or alcohol or testosterone.. I have killed no one with my Crown Vickies...

[sweetair]

The sad/scary part is that this can happen ANYWHERE. An absolute tragedy. :(

[RCSignals]

I suppose there was some arcane rule which would not allow students to carry arms to protect themselves...Only needed one to shoot back and minimize the slaughter...Hours go by and nobody would jump the guy while he was reloading...Safe use of weapons should be taught in grammar school and there should be shooting clubs in every high school and college courses in gunsmithing... So many folks are afraid of firearms and just put their heads in the sand when it comes to proper training and use... But remember...we kill 40 thousand a year in car wrecks... most of them by inexperienced drivers and those under the influence of drugs or alcohol or testosterone.. I have killed no one with my Crown Vickies...

Funny thing is, that at one time the kind of Firearms training you mention was common. Even in elementary Schools, Boy Scouts, etc. In Canada too.
Seems when it was common there weren't these kinds of 'incidents'

But this isn't a Firearms 'problem' it's a people/person problem.

[ParkRanger]

More justification that ALL LEO's should be CCW off duty.

PR :burnout:

[rayjay]

:shake:
Sicko.
Who wants to take bets it was over a GIRL?!

BINGO! :shake:

[Bluerauder]

My money is with your opinion... They say there was an initial shooting at the dorm first... that was my first thought...
First shooting was in a dorm at about 7:15 AM -- 2 killed, both female. Shootings at the engineering "Norris Hall" building did not occur until 2 hours later. From the news reports, the shooter had one 9mm semi-automatic and a .22 cal pistol and a vest with multiple clips. He chained several doors to prevent anyone entering or leaving. Total count so far 33 dead (including the shooter) and 15 injured.

This is a terrible tragedy for Virginia Tech and the Commonwealth of Virginia. :(

More story here >>>> http://www.comcast.net/news/index.jsp?cat=GENERAL&fn=/2007/04/16/638314.html&cvqh=itn_vatechshooting

My condolences to the family and friends of the victims. How senseless !!

[Mad4Macs]

Man, this is just sad! I've nothing against guns, but if people can't start taking control for themselves, maybe it is time we looked at much better and stricter controls.

Last I looked, it was already illegal to kill people. People who break laws... break laws. You can pass 1 Billion Laws, and they'll be ignored by a "law" breaker.
Problem is... it's the cultural shift handed down to us over the last 25 years.
"Right"... "Wrong"... those are no longer ideas allowed to be taught. These days, it's "How you feel" about things and "your self respect" trumps all else.
"Hey man, you dissin' me?" BLAM BLAM BLAM.
We've seen the results handed us by this current line of thinking... and the bodies pile higher and higher.

(Might as well lock this thread right now)

[RCSignals]

It looks like it did have something to do with his Girlfriend.

Did he chain the doors of the Engineering building? I thought he had chained the doors of the Dorm.

It would appear he had a lot of time to do what he did.

As I said before, this is a people/person problem.

[Bluerauder]

Did he chain the doors of the Engineering building? I thought he had chained the doors of the Dorm.


Yes, engineering/classroom building chained.
No, dorm not chained.

[jgc61sr2002]

More justification that ALL LEO's should be CCW off duty.

PR :burnout:

HR 218 should be ammended so all LEO's active and retired can carry anywhere in the United States. Although the bill has past and signed it is quite complex and difficult to obtain required documents.

[cyclopsram]

And all former military with honorable discharges...and current military home on leave... etc.

[rayjay]

HR 218 should be ammended so all LEO's active and retired can carry anywhere in the United States. Although the bill has past and signed it is quite complex and difficult to obtain required documents.

When traveling by car I go by the rule better judged by 12 than carried by 6. I would not pinch a out of state LEO if they have their credentials.

[Mad4Macs]

And all former military with honorable discharges...and current military home on leave... etc.

Me... and others that served... we're in shock. 33 people? Same thing as 911... Rob, Keith, Matt... maybe even me... given a firearm, things would have ended quickly. Given we'd have been unarmed? Things would have ended differently.
No one I know (and I know those I served with very well), would have stood by for a massacre.
Jeez... I'm ranting and I know it... but this... it's beyond my comprehension. I can no longer relate to the changes handed down from on high these last two decades.
Count me out.

[murphypeople]

I suppose there was some arcane rule which would not allow students to carry arms to protect themselves...Only needed one to shoot back and minimize the slaughter...Hours go by and nobody would jump the guy while he was reloading...Safe use of weapons should be taught in grammar school and there should be shooting clubs in every high school and college courses in gunsmithing... So many folks are afraid of firearms and just put their heads in the sand when it comes to proper training and use... But remember...we kill 40 thousand a year in car wrecks... most of them by inexperienced drivers and those under the influence of drugs or alcohol or testosterone.. I have killed no one with my Crown Vickies...

Say it again...^^^(we just did). Well said.

[murphypeople]

Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by jgc61sr2002 http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?p=487767#post48 7767)
HR 218 should be ammended so all LEO's active and retired can carry anywhere in the United States. Although the bill has past and signed it is quite complex and difficult to obtain required documents.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
When traveling by car I go by the rule better judged by 12 than carried by 6. I would not pinch a out of state LEO if they have their credentials.

^^^^^^I understand the concept but don't support the "rule." Police departments are not there to protect people. So says the Supreme Court. Keep the peace and protect property…yup. I DO remember that it WAS a LEO that came through in <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Salt Lake City</st1:place></st1:City> a few months back. To bad there were not a half dozen trained and armed citizens by his side. I for one do not have a CCW, yet. But then again if I lived in <st1:State w:st="on">Vermont</st1:State> or <st1:State w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Alaska</st1:place></st1:State> I would not need one. I am at the beginning of the path of responsible gun ownership…and don’t dear hit the street packing without the right training and mindset. Its about being responsible…defined as: being able to respond. After leaving the military I put weapons aside. Hoping to never have to pick one up again…but that is not responsible to my family, me or my fellow citizens.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
Not Crazy in <st1:State w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Colorado</st1:place></st1:State><o:p></o:p>
:soapbox:

[Mad4Macs]

Say it again...^^^(we just did). Well said.

Thing is... it's NOT some "arcane ruling", it's how Americans are being raised today, in some kind of insanely false version of reality which does not exist, and it's down right scary!!!
Like I said earlier, vote Dems and carry this on forever, or lock this thread now.
It's what Rosie's America wants.

[murphypeople]

Thing is... it's NOT some "arcane ruling", it's how Americans are being raised today, in some kind of insanely false version of reality which does not exist, and it's down right scary!!!
Like I said earlier, vote Dems and carry this on forever, or lock this thread now.
It's what Rosie's America wants.

Not that we are all trying to agree with each other for the sake of agreement…but yes you are right too. Lots could be said about this National tragedy and there will be a lot said. Some of it will be said here and many other places. This event should have been stopped a lot sooner than it was. And the person with the emergency communication job at V.T. is not to blame. Neither are the police. We all know the shooter is to blame.
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p> </o:p>
I am glad we can talk about this together. Thanks for letting me chat with all of you. I appreciate hearing everyone’s thoughts
T:depress:

[MM2004]

Instead of debating, please pray for them.

Mike.

[Dragcity]

Good point. It is the dimented shooters fault, and his ultimate responsibility. He has to answer to a higher power than us....

It really is too bad the masses in all this were young and uneducated in the world. It would have only taken two very brave souls to end this quickly. I could not, nor could any of you, stand by and let innocent people be killed. I am sure many of us would sacrifice ourselves to save many others.


Note to Self... "Never lie down and take it - Stand up and FIGHT, til the death as neccessary!"

My most sorrowful thoughts go out to all those infected by this terrible event.

[94_302]

I have talked to my friends there and they are ok, this whole thing just makes me sick. We can only pray for the families that will never be the same after today.

[Master]

I heard an interesting news story about why people don't generally rush a lone gunman. It has to do with our not really being brought up with such a thought process as a peaceful society. I was brought up on pellet gun wars and such, so I might think differently. However, I feel for all of those people. They were attempting to lead a better, more enlightened lifestyle. They never should have expected to deal with such horror. My idea for controls is really about better education, better control on fanaticism. I grew up in the country. We all had guns - many - and nary an incident. Something wrong with city folk. Divided into two camps - antigun and gun crazy. However, all debate and comment aside, here is one heartfelt wish for peace and understanding for the families of those involved. The news has, by the way, confirmed that it was over a girl.

[modular46]

I suppose there was some arcane rule which would not allow students to carry arms to protect themselves...Only needed one to shoot back and minimize the slaughter...Hours go by and nobody would jump the guy while he was reloading...Safe use of weapons should be taught in grammar school and there should be shooting clubs in every high school and college courses in gunsmithing... So many folks are afraid of firearms and just put their heads in the sand when it comes to proper training and use... But remember...we kill 40 thousand a year in car wrecks... most of them by inexperienced drivers and those under the influence of drugs or alcohol or testosterone.. I have killed no one with my Crown Vickies...

Each VA University board of trustees is allowed to make their own rules about students/teachers carrying guns and VATech doesn't allow it even though VA has C&C laws.

[sailsmen]

There is a word that I never saw in the press including their guest experts after Columbine and 911.

Care to guess what the word is?

[Mad4Macs]

Agreed. I will pray for the families involved, and let these emotions cool a bit.
Good enough?

[murphypeople]

Each VA University board of trustees is allowed to make their own rules about students/teachers carrying guns and VATech doesn't allow it even though VA has C&C laws.

Yup^^^^was just listening to one of the Denver Talk show jocks and He had on the VA legislator that put forward a bill in the not so distant past to make V.Tech conform to State law regarding CCW. The measure was beaten down. A pro second amendment group was supporting a student that was "disciplined" by the school when he was discovered to be legally carrying.
The whole thing is sad and tragic.
T

[sicilianmarquis]

the media was saying it was all about his girlfreind somethin about he was looking for her, then he went crazy

[RCSignals]

Thing is... it's NOT some "arcane ruling", it's how Americans are being raised today, in some kind of insanely false version of reality which does not exist, and it's down right scary!!!
Like I said earlier, vote Dems and carry this on forever, or lock this thread now.
It's what Rosie's America wants.

Apparently, despite VA law allowing Concealed Carry Permits, that University it's own rule that disallows carry on campus.
So those who follow the rules don't go to class armed. I wonder how many will want to now.

[MM2004]

Agreed. I will pray for the families involved, and let these emotions cool a bit.
Good enough?

It is quite difficult to not get emotional at times like this.

Thank you,

Mike.

[Bluerauder]

There is a word that I never saw in the press including their guest experts after Columbine and 911.

Care to guess what the word is?

Crazy? Nutcase? Psychopath? Deranged? Insane?

Details are starting to emerge on the VA Tech shooter. Seems that there were lots and lots of warning signs on this guy. His "creative writings" for his English major were so disturbed that he was referred for counseling. Words like anti-social, loner, erratic, violent, disturbing, stalking, etc. were used in connection with his behavior. Yet, no one connected the dots. :rolleyes:

Where have we seen this kinda stuff before? :(

[magindat]

Funny thing is, that at one time the kind of Firearms training you mention was common. Even in elementary Schools, Boy Scouts, etc. In Canada too.
Seems when it was common there weren't these kinds of 'incidents'

But this isn't a Firearms 'problem' it's a people/person problem.

Hell, the local Cub Scout troop here won't even teach 'em about POCKETKNIVES!

[sailsmen]

The word is EVIL.

We have become so Politically Correct that we will not offend Satan.

[GAMike]

I heard an interesting news story about why people don't generally rush a lone gunman. It has to do with our not really being brought up with such a thought process as a peaceful society. I was brought up on pellet gun wars and such, so I might think differently. However, I feel for all of those people. They were attempting to lead a better, more enlightened lifestyle. They never should have expected to deal with such horror. My idea for controls is really about better education, better control on fanaticism. I grew up in the country. We all had guns - many - and nary an incident. Something wrong with city folk. Divided into two camps - antigun and gun crazy. However, all debate and comment aside, here is one heartfelt wish for peace and understanding for the families of those involved. The news has, by the way, confirmed that it was over a girl.

Though I have not read all the posts, Master here has said a mouthful..............."They never should have expected to deal with such horror"..... But guess what... In this day and age we have to recondition ourselves to expect the unexpected, and then try not to be victimized because the unexpected happens. There are situations in this free society of ours that no amount of preperation will cover, and that Law Enforcement will not be able to react fast enough too. (And if they do, will they Charge in or????) By the time its over, Law Enforcement will be relegated to mop and bucket duty. Like a guy said on Neil Boortz this am..

" We have to condition ourselves not to be victims" .

Truthfully I don't know what I would do if something like VA Tech happened in my proximity. I like to think I am a man of action (as I am sure it is with most here), but really who knows.

I do feel for the families of these students/the rest of the student body/ faculty, and even the family of the killer. I am friends with many honorable Koreans here in GA and if this were their son, it would be an unbeleiveable shame on their family names that they would never be able to bear.

As far as gun laws go? Those who want them will get them any time, no matter what laws are on the books. That means to me, that the criminals will have them and we won't...... One poster earlier alluded to the fact that criminals don't abide by the gun laws passed. Law abiding citizens should continue to have the gun option available to them, so that they can protect their families, themselves, and others when these events occur in their proximity. It's what I beleive, and I feel safer for my ability to carry. Sorry if my opinion is counter to the pot stirring media hacks out there.

[Mebot]

I graduated from Virginia Tech in 2005 and this whole story has been a shock. It's actually quite devastating. I've been so distraught trying to keep with everyone that I know who is still down there. Luckily most of my friends have graduated already but I still have a couple friends down there and they're ok.

It's been extremely tought because this is my community. These are places that I used to bike to on campus. The people you see on TV, the students weeping and crying and the parents and the faculty... they are all my family.

Words can't describe how melancholy I feel, it just hurts so much to try and comprehend this tragedy.

:( Virginia Tech for life.

http://www.vt.edu/tragedy/images/vt_shield_notag_onblack230.gif

[sailsmen]

We had a similar event here in N.O.

A murderer named Mark Essex trained for months and was on top of the HOJO shooting white people and people in uniforms.

W/ a 44 Mag he shot a couple in the eye that were staying in the hotel. He used firecrackers for divirsion.

It lasted about 24 hours. We all watched it for 2 days on the news, during school.

We say people we knew shot on strechers. A friend of my sister was an ambulance driver, he was on call on that sunday the first day. He knew there was a murderer and went there. he was shot in the side and survived. He was on the strecher and reaching out to the camera with a bloody side.

Eventually the police shot him from a helicopter. His body was riddled w/ bullets. Some critized the police for shoting him that many times.

The police were not prepared. At one point the entire force was there so the police could not return fire not knowing where their fellow officers were. I remember how pointless it was watching police shoot 25 stories up w/ shotguns.

This was before SWAT teams. I kept saying shoot a missle or a bazooka at the roof top building he was in.

They found writings in his apt talking about his hatred.

We got over it fairly quickly.

[seans]

Apparently, despite VA law allowing Concealed Carry Permits, that University it's own rule that disallows carry on campus.
So those who follow the rules don't go to class armed. I wonder how many will want to now.


I am a police officer at a university and I thank god that students aren't allowed to have any type of weapons on campus. While they might have been useful in this one and hopefully rare instance they would be too dangerous for the following reasons:

1. Certain times during a semester, we will average 2 or 3 suicide attempts a
week.
2. It is scary to see how many 18-22 yr olds are on medications for mental
health issues.
3. Every weekend hundreds of students get drunk which leads to fights,
assaults and boyfriend/girlfriend or roommate domestics. Imagine if they
had easy access to firearms.

[GAMike]

I am a police officer at a university and I thank god that students aren't allowed to have any type of weapons on campus. While they might have been useful in this one and hopefully rare instance they would be too dangerous for the following reasons:

1. Certain times during a semester, we will average 2 or 3 suicide attempts a
week.
2. It is scary to see how many 18-22 yr olds are on medications for mental
health issues.
3. Every weekend hundreds of students get drunk which leads to fights,
assaults and boyfriend/girlfriend or roommate domestics. Imagine if they
had easy access to firearms.

Your not lying Seans......... I went to school in RI in the middle eighties, and ran nite clubs for 3 out of 4 yrs there... Made alot of friends with the Providence PD, and Campus PD.

We had a 5 story dorm with a ledge on the 5th floor that you could step on to from a dorm window.... Since I was always coming in at these late hours and knew most of the students, I had more than a few occasions to talk some ppl. off that ledge after a nite of drinking & rejection...... The ledge would not have been as popular if a gun was available for some of these folks.

Still though I firmly beleive in our 2nd ammendment rights. We have to do a better job of teaching our children how not to get caught up in the mini drama's of adolecence. These type things distract a person from the real threat right around the corner, that they will never see coming.

Everyone needs to keep their radar on for potentially dangerous situations. VA Tech can happen anywhere and that is a real shame.

[MENINBLK]

I have only one thing so say about guns...

If the public put the same amount of energy that the NRA puts into preserving their Fair Use Rights,
our kids would be spending lots more time listening to AFFORDABLE MUSIC,
instead of purchasing and using AFFORDABLE WEAPONRY.

Why ?
Because iPods wouldn't cost $500, and the music they download
would be more like 5 CENTS per track.
And all these issue about Sharing, Downloading and Copyright Infringement
would not exist.
KIDS would have more freedoms to enjoy the things they like to do,
and enjoy their young lives like we all enjoyed our young lives.
KIDS today can't do anything without paying through the nose for it,
and we don't have the money to support everything they want to do.

Why ?
Because we all sat on our fat arses and let the entire world
copyright all of our rights away, to the point that unnecessary evils
such as "The Right To Bear Arms" is more important than
"The Right To Copy Music To A Portable Music Player".

And the Law that allows us "The Right To Bear Arms" was written
when the only ARM you could Bear was a MUSKET.
If this kid had a MUSKET instead of a GLUCK,
I doubt he would have injured more than one person.

[sailsmen]

30 years ago when I was a kid records cost $10-$15. Equiv to $20-$30 today.

My kids buy songs for $1 each and their IPod costs $160, others can be had for much less.

A football, frisby and archery set can all be purchased for less than $20. we use all 3 all the time.

Many areas have YMCA whcih are reasonable. Most libraries have free movies and free online access.

New Tech which can only become viable when pats/copyright laws are enforced drops in cost every year.

Very few people have the money to pay for every thing their child wants to do.

It is illegal for children to purchase handguns.

The US cities with the toughest gun laws have the highest rates of murder by gun. Criminals do not obey the law.

Had my father not had a gun to defend us and apprehend the criminal that broke into our house while we were sleeping I don't know what might have happened to my family or another family.

The founding fathers were very clear in their writings about the Second Amendment, namely to keep an oppressive government in check and to protect the indiviual from criminals.

From the WSJ 1-16-02
BY JAMES TARANTO

Gun Stops Gunman
There was a shooting Wednesday at the Appalachian School of Law in Grundy, Va. Peter Odighizuwa, a 43-year-old naturalized U.S. citizen from Nigeria who'd flunked out of school allegedly went on a rampage and killed a dean, a professor and a fellow student with a .380-caliber pistol. Three other students were injured.
But the presence of another gun on campus almost certainly saved lives. MSNBC reports:

Students ended the rampage by confronting and then tackling the gunman, officials said.

"We saw the shooter, stopped at my vehicle and got out my handgun and started to approach Peter," Tracy Bridges, who helped subdue the shooter with other students, said Thursday on NBC's "Today" show. "At that time, Peter threw up his hands and threw his weapon down. Ted was the first person to have contact with Peter, and Peter hit him one time in the face, so there was a little bit of a struggle there."