Speaker Questions.

[rvaldez1]

Rich, John. I hope you guys will tune into this one. Recently the talk about speakers came up and you both reccommended the Pioneer revs, I insisted on the lesser pioneer 4 ways. Well, after really listening I hear the harshness you are speaking of, only when fully cranked. I'm pushing 35w RMS and I do have DSP, albeit very primitive DSP. I will soon install a system in a 97' Taurus and have a chance to sell my speakers at a premium, and I need to dynamat all my doors and rear deck anyway. So, why not a change, the two speakers that catch my eye the most are the pioneer revs you mentioned previously, and these fosgate three ways. http://www.cardomain.com/item/ROCP1683C?vq_id=none

I listen to alot of rap, oldies and mexican music so I am looking to retain the highs as much as possible without adding any component sets. I have 2 old mtx 10s in a bandpass box with a measly 120w rms as of now, will be soon upgraded to 2-12s at around 600w rms very soon. So bass is not my main concern, solely the lower mids to highs. What do you recommend?

[Pops]

If I knew you were Spanish (which I should have by your signature) I would have recommended different speakers. You guYs love the highs! The Rockfords you are looking at are very nice. PM me for a price. They have a fuller and brighter sound than the Revs, Would work nice for you.

[rvaldez1]

If I knew you were Spanish (which I should have by your signature) I would have recommended different speakers. You guYs love the highs! The Rockfords you are looking at are very nice. PM me for a price. They have a fuller and brighter sound than the Revs, Would work nice for you.


Thats what I was thinking, but, will they take away the harshness, IE scratching of the 4-ways I currently have? If you have other suggestions for even bigger fuller sound in a 6x8 please chime in. I love spanish music, tropical, regional mexican etc. but I listen to lots of rap, oldies, old school country, soft rock, rock. I love it all man.

[MENINBLK]

You can try out the Kenwoods I have in my sig.
Best Buy used to sell them.
You have have to go to the Audio Warehouse.

[magindat]

At your power level (deck power, I assume) you'd like these:
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/v3/pg/product/details/0,,2076_310069908_291227134,00 .html

I would also add a set of TS-T11's surface mount on the dash (no cutting, just double-sided tape) up in the 'pinch'. The 11's will reflect 90 degrees off the glass and be bright as daylight while the G6841R's will provide very decent midbass at low power levels. You'll want to electronically cross owver at about 100 hz and then rely on your subs from 80 down. (yes, leave the gap in the settings, the natural slopes will take care of filling it).

We have plenty mexicans, here. They all like that accordion music (I call it, sorry) and 11's are cheap and reliable for them! That's not to say they're garbage. I had them in a competition vehicle many years ago.

You are NEVER gonna get the brighness you desire from the stock location. It's just not possible given the mounting direction and the way the door panel is. You WILL get good mid bass from there and good presence. Add the 11's in parallel with the front speakers with the supplied cap and install them as close to the glass and as near the pillars as you can get. The wire will slip right between the pilar and the front black dash piece. Clean the spot well and just stick'em with the included tape. Trust me on this one.

I know John's a Fosgate dealer, but I HATE Fosgate. Although it IS a political hate. Therefore I don't know their product. However, I DO know Pioneer product. I say this cuz I can't speak for the mix of the Fosgate 6x8's John recommends and the TS-T11 Pioneer tweets. I DO know what I said above to be true. You'll never get what you are looking for from the stock location. It's just physically impossible. If the fosgate speaker John says has a relatively low PH and a high sensitivity, then add a surface mount Fosgate hard dome tweet same as I said for the 11.

good luck. those are my recommendations and reasons. all are available from JK.

[Pops]

Good reply Rich as i agree with the logic. We do a lot of installs as Rich has described.

[rvaldez1]

So I see, I was really hoping I didnt have to add external tweeters, but what the hell. I guess I might as well do it all the way and raise the sound stage, and do the tweeters all around. I have a pair of TS 11s actually, still in the box. I might end up getting full component sets all around and throw a center channel in while I am at it. Thanks for the help gentlemen.

[magindat]

Now, now...
If'n you DO get components, get 'em with SOFT DOMES! Otherwise the 90 degree lag from the cap on the 11's and the reflection off the windshield will argue with the in-phase signal of the component hard dome tweet and you'll end up in the same boat as with the 4 ways!

Get a component set with a soft-dome tweet and a xover that has a -3bd tweet connection. Run the soft-dome tweet at -3db and let that 11 run free (behind it's cap, of course).

You're CHEATIN! I had to learn all this on my own with trial and error!!!!!

[rvaldez1]

Now, now...
If'n you DO get components, get 'em with SOFT DOMES! Otherwise the 90 degree lag from the cap on the 11's and the reflection off the windshield will argue with the in-phase signal of the component hard dome tweet and you'll end up in the same boat as with the 4 ways!

Get a component set with a soft-dome tweet and a xover that has a -3bd tweet connection. Run the soft-dome tweet at -3db and let that 11 run free (behind it's cap, of course).

You're CHEATIN! I had to learn all this on my own with trial and error!!!!!

Thanks! I love how you always get acoustic theory, (or in this case Rich Law LOL) involved. So you recommend the 11s in addition to the component set? I hate how as I am getting older I am leaning more toward sql rather than spl, sql seems soooo much harder.

[magindat]

Thanks! I love how you always get acoustic theory, (or in this case Rich Law LOL) involved. So you recommend the 11s in addition to the component set?
Sure, but with soft dome tweets wired 3db down on the components. Your soft domes will hadle the upper end of human voice while your hard domes will get your high instruments and cymbals and such.

I hate how as I am getting older I am leaning more toward sql rather than spl, sql seems soooo much harder.
Ahh, and soon the student will become the master, Grasshopper. I followed the same path!

If you want components at you power level and to ccompliment the 11's, use these http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/v3/pg/product/details/0,,2076_310069904_32651,00.htm l
or their 5-1/4" cousin for an easier fit. The foamed IMPP cone is fast, rigid and war and the soft dome is exactly what you need in your overall setup.

I'd still do http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/v3/pg/product/details/0,,2076_310069908_291227134,00 .html
at your power level. They are basically mylar tweeters, but will be behind the door skin slightly muted. Easy install. Cheap, too and just add the 11's. Don't go over about 85-90% on your volume knob to avaid internal amp clipping and your set. Besides, sticking with the 6x8 gives increased cone area over either component which adds warmth and depth. We're also not talking power levels here that will distort a 6x8 cone, so forget what you hear about oval cones being bad. Maybe when you're sending them 200W a piece, we'll have THAT discussion!