Immigration numbers from 10 years ago

[ctrlraven]

This is an important video to watch. This isn't against any specific group of people, but immigration in itself. Take a look at the video for yourself and watch the #'s as they grow. Pay close attention to the numbers in the year 2010, right now we're at 298 million people in the U.S (July 2006 info source CIA). So here's the link to the video.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=40949267271280 68265&pr=goog-sl

[Bluerauder]

This is an important video to watch.

Thanks. Very interesting and informative. The charts are somewhat misleading from a visual perspective in that the scale starts at 270 Million on the left. There's a whole lot of Green population that is not shown .... but visually it looks like Red = Green in the 2010-2020 timeframe.

[Zack]

That guy is my hero.

[JVJ]

Now that's scarrie, but there's truth to that. Good looking out.

[BCKNBLK]

Subject: Carlin on saving Gas


President Bush wants us to cut the amount of gas we use.
The best way to stop using so much gas is to deport 11 million illegal
immigrants! That would be 11 million less people using our gas. The
price of
gas would come down. Bring our troops home from Iraq to guard the
border.
When they catch an illegal immigrant crossing the border, hand him a
canteen, rifle and some ammo and ship him to Iraq. Tell him if he wants
to
come to America then he must serve a tour in the military. Give him a
soldier's pay while he's there and tax him on it. After his tour, he
will be
allowed to become a citizen since he defended this country. He will
also be
registered to be taxed and be a legal patriot. This option will
probably
deter illegal immigration and provide a solution for the troops in Iraq
and
the aliens trying to make a better life for themselves. If they refuse
to
serve, ship them to Iraq anyway, without the canteen, rifle or ammo.
Problem
solved. If you think this is a good solution to both the problems,
forward
it to your friends. I just did.

[duhtroll]

I think I saw this suggested on Mind of Mencia last night. :)

EDIT: After watching this during lunch today, I'm guessing his charts do little more than reflect the population growth of the planet, as the projections look similar. The planetary population growth is going the same way -- it's just that we have fewer children in developed nations than do those people in undeveloped or underdeveloped ones. We know our kids have a much better chance at survival, so we do not need large families anymore.

I don't believe that immigration is a policy that was put in place simply to help those in third world countries. It certainly is not the reason all of us are here.

I'm not stating a case for or against immigration, (I happen to agree we need more restrictions). We have a nicer place to live over here. It's natural that others want to live here too.

As for his statements on education -- the problem there is not that there are not enough schools. The problem is that in the US we don't value education. We say we do, but don't want to pay for it.


Subject: Carlin on saving Gas


President Bush wants us to cut the amount of gas we use.
The best way to stop using so much gas is to deport 11 million illegal
immigrants! That would be 11 million less people using our gas. The
price of
gas would come down. Bring our troops home from Iraq to guard the
border.
When they catch an illegal immigrant crossing the border, hand him a
canteen, rifle and some ammo and ship him to Iraq. Tell him if he wants
to
come to America then he must serve a tour in the military. Give him a
soldier's pay while he's there and tax him on it. After his tour, he
will be
allowed to become a citizen since he defended this country. He will
also be
registered to be taxed and be a legal patriot. This option will
probably
deter illegal immigration and provide a solution for the troops in Iraq
and
the aliens trying to make a better life for themselves. If they refuse
to
serve, ship them to Iraq anyway, without the canteen, rifle or ammo.
Problem
solved. If you think this is a good solution to both the problems,
forward
it to your friends. I just did.

[RedMerc04]

Very informative. Pretty Scary stuff

[RCSignals]

I've said it before. It's not about "Immigration" It's about those who come to this country without following the set laws of the land to do so. The people who are scofflaws, and once they are here display a sense of entitlement to stay and reap reward for being so.

[MERCMAN]

I just HATE scofflaws!!!

[duhtroll]

Agreed, and then they have parades to say "we're here illegally, but damn if we don't want our free stuff!"

Too bad we can't get them to march right back over the border.




I've said it before. It's not about "Immigration" It's about those who come to this country without following the set laws of the land to do so. The people who are scofflaws, and once they are here display a sense of entitlement to stay and reap reward for being so.

[BAD MERC]

Well, now I am more pissed than ever.

[MENINBLK]

As for his statements on education -- the problem there is not that there are not enough schools. The problem is that in the US we don't value education. We say we do, but don't want to pay for it.

I am having this debate with my son's teacher now.
He is now learning about American History and how the education system
in the United States is FREE.
I told my son to go to school and tell his teacher that the education system IS NOT FREE - IT IS PAID FOR BY TAXPAYERS.
He came home and told me that his teacher said it is FREE, period.

I am about to have a meeting with my son's teacher, the school headmaster,
my son and my tax bills and have them explain to me and my son
why my tax bills says I am paying a SCHOOL TAX.

It is not that the US doesn't value the education system,
the current value of the education system has molded into a system of competitive examinations
to see which state has the smarter children and is more deserving of funds.
This has changed the school system's priorities to one where they spend
most of the school year preparing the students to take these stupid examinations
instead of actually EDUCATION THE MASSES.

And also, my son doesn't go to a FREE SCHOOL, we send him to a PRIVATE SCHOOL.
Why ? Because I want my son to have the best chance of actually getting an education
and not being prepped to take stupid exams all year.
His school only participates in ONE NATIONAL EXAM.
The IOWA Testing Program.
http://www.uiowa.edu/homepage/resources/listings/i/IA_testing_prog.html

I am all for limiting immigration and protecting our American Resources and Dreams.

[duhtroll]

I am having this debate with my son's teacher now.
He is now learning about American History and how the education system
in the United States is FREE.
I told my son to go to school and tell his teacher that the education system IS NOT FREE - IT IS PAID FOR BY TAXPAYERS.
He came home and told me that his teacher said it is FREE, period.

This teacher is an idiot if he actually said that (although it doesn't sound like you are/were debating the teacher unless you are talking to him or her directly).


It is not that the US doesn't value the education system,
the current value of the education system has molded into a system of competitive examinations
to see which state has the smarter children and is more deserving of funds.
This has changed the school system's priorities to one where they spend
most of the school year preparing the students to take these stupid examinations
instead of actually EDUCATION THE MASSES.

If this country valued education, we wouldn't hear whining about paying taxes to support education.

"But school funding has increased substantially in the past 20 years, which means they are wasting money!" they complain.

Schools need computers and other tech now. That's why they need more money. You should see the prince of A textbook, much less a school full of them.

We want education, but don't ask us to pay what it costs . . .

Also, the people who mandated the testing to which you object are the same ones who preach that taxes are evil and must be lowered at all costs. They also complain that schools ask for too much money and that our teachers are substandard, etc..

As far as "which state has the smarter students" goes, the tests are meaningless, because each state is allowed to determine what constitutes proficiency.


And also, my son doesn't go to a FREE SCHOOL, we send him to a PRIVATE SCHOOL.
Why ? Because I want my son to have the best chance of actually getting an education
and not being prepped to take stupid exams all year.
His school only participates in ONE NATIONAL EXAM.
The IOWA Testing Program.
http://www.uiowa.edu/homepage/resources/listings/i/IA_testing_prog.html

I am all for limiting immigration and protecting our American Resources and Dreams.

Uh, there are several "national" testing programs. "National" is in quotes because not every state uses the same tests. The Iowa Test of Basic Skills is only one of these and it is quickly being outpaced by other forms of testing. The ITBS is a battery that compares students to other students, and each time the students score well they re-norm the test so that it becomes more difficult. The goal here is to arrive at a mean score of 50% for all test takers. They score higher, the test gets harder.

(I've been teaching in Iowa for 15 years, so I know a bit about this test process. I also took them myself every year when I was in school.)

Yes, that means kids are smarter than when we were in school, at least in book knowledge. I make no claims to their common sense.

What people are beginning to realize is that its far more important to compare students to themselves longitudinally. Its better to know if and by how much each student improves, rather than which state has smarter kids.

Want to know which students will score higher on tests nearly each and every time? Check the income level of their household. It is the single most determinant factor in educational scoring. Location, race, religion, gender, etc., don't matter nearly as much as income does.

No one in the education community has a problem with higher standards for our kids. Let's just fund the damn system already.

[RCSignals]

As for his statements on education -- the problem there is not that there are not enough schools. The problem is that in the US we don't value education. We say we do, but don't want to pay for it.

But just say there is no money for football or other sports programme and it suddenly falls from the sky.

[Motorhead350]

My internet is too slow to work the video right now, but honestly I don't care. Let them in because all they want is a better life. I think I stand alone on this one.

[KillJoy]

My internet is too slow to work the video right now, but honestly I don't care. Let them in because all they want is a better life. I think I stand alone on this one.


Not entirely.

I know, for a fact, if I lived in poverty, and there were a country next door that would let me come there, and assume their "wealth", I would be on that like a fly on urinal cone!!!

OTOH, you gotta pay to play...taxes that is...

KillJoy

[Bluerauder]

He is now learning about American History and how the education system in the United States is FREE.
The FREE education system here in Prince William County, Virginia is costing us about $ 1 Billion each year.

[RCSignals]

The FREE education system here in Prince William County, Virginia is costing us about $ 1 Billion each year.


That's one thousand million dollars. Can't they just run off the interest of that? It is only one county.

[MENINBLK]

If this country valued education, we wouldn't hear whining about paying taxes to support education.

"But school funding has increased substantially in the past 20 years, which means they are wasting money!" they complain.

Schools need computers and other tech now. That's why they need more money. You should see the prince of A textbook, much less a school full of them.

We want education, but don't ask us to pay what it costs . . .



I agree with everything you say except this.

There is a BIG problem with the education system.
When Board of Ed workers get to drive around on my tax money in a NAVIGATOR,
I should be able to say something, no ?

What is wrong with the Board of Ed workers driving to work in their OWN cars ?
I drive my car to work. I use my car for work.
I was reimbursed for mileage and I was reimbursed at a LOT LESS
than the IRS allows.
I really think that the company was pocketing the difference.

That NAVIGATOR budget can provide Physical Education courses
for the Yonkers Public School system which they don't have now
because they can't afford them.

I understand your post, but not all of us complain BLINDLY
that we don't want to pay the taxes.
I would gladly pay my share of taxes IF the tax moneys
were put to the proper use.

New York State can't even get an education budget done correctly
based on population, instead of political needs.
This is why the US education system sucks.

If I had the $$$, I'd have my kid schooled at home.

[duhtroll]

I'm seeing quite a few misconceptions about how public schools work.

In most places I know, school board members get paid very little for their jobs, or (most often) not at all. They are elected, not hired. That would be a conflict of interests. Don't know what you're talking about here.

School board members have regular jobs or are retired, usually. They pretty much volunteer their time to serve districts in public schools.

Either said Navigator was owned personally by the member and they are reimbursed for mileage in travel to school-related functions (dozens of professions do this) or the vehicle is owned by the school district, and my guess is they got a deal on it. Many districts have one nicer vehicle (that they don't let athletic teams use) to keep nice for visiting board members, elected officials, etc..

On the other side of that, we taught driver's ed. for years in a 80s white Caprice station wagon. We called it 'white lightning.'

I find it hard to believe that any public school could get away with giving school board members Lincolns, primarily because it's illegal.

EDIT: I'm curious. In what way does the US Educational System 'suck?' Let me remind you that these 'other countries' they compare us to on those international tests aren't educating every single kid. Many countries do not require school beyond 8th grade unless they plan on higher education. Many countries have different levels of schooling separated by ability, or more importantly, ability to pay for it.

Which would you rather have? All kids in school, or 2/3 of them with nothing to do during the day because they can't afford it? Hint: They will be hanging around the neighborhood while the adults are at work.

Parent: "But little Johnny can't read!"

Teacher: "Then maybe you should spend some time with him and read him a damn book once in a while."

Why do people think learning is anything other than a personal responsibility? A good dentist doesn't prevent cavities if his patients don't do what thay are told.

The problem with education is a misconception that we can educate every single child to proficiency levels with no effort from either the parents or the students, and then they will all get high paying (non-manufacturing) jobs. Some kids ain't gonna get it, and some don't want to. Yet we still are responsible for their test scores.

[duhtroll]

On a side note, only half of the school experience is about factual/book learning.

The other half is about learning how to socialize and work with a group of your peers.

I see lots of home schooled kids who are brilliant, yet socially inept. They get to situations where mom and dad aren't around (or they don't have a 1-on-1 situation with a teacher to help) and they shut down.

[rvaldez1]

My internet is too slow to work the video right now, but honestly I don't care. Let them in because all they want is a better life. I think I stand alone on this one.


Not entirely.

I know, for a fact, if I lived in poverty, and there were a country next door that would let me come there, and assume their "wealth", I would be on that like a fly on urinal cone!!!

OTOH, you gotta pay to play...taxes that is...

KillJoy


Well, I have had my eye on this thread for quite some time, I didnt get involved because religion politics etc. I feel does not have any relevance in a car forum. Since I got sucked in, I should first say I am American of Mexican and Cuban roots, my parents were both born here, and I have tons friends and family that are not as fortunate as I am. I feel that we should have common sense immigratiom reform, people that have roots here, i.e. Children, a job, possilbe education and NO criminal background should be given better options to stay. I feel that immigration is what this country was founded on, the only true americans are the Indians.

I also disagree with the idea that they are depleting the system, yes, there is free school, free doctors etc. but americans who do not work get these benefits as well. Many immigrants do not use these free services for fear of being deported. In addition, many of the immigrants work, and they buy things so they DO pay into taxes. Let alone the many that work often pay into tax anyway. I said my piece, I have seen many numbers, I dont agree with many of the far-right wing conservatives that give half-truths like many politicans do.

[Bluerauder]

That's one thousand million dollars. Can't they just run off the interest of that? It is only one county.
Yeah, I know how much that is. :rolleyes:

FREE costs one heck of a lot............. and it represents the most significant expenditure for the county above anything else. Here 58 cents from every dollar goes to support education.

At 5% interest on $1 Billion, the $57.750 Million would only run our county schools for 9.5 days.

The recently approved FY2008 School Budget for the county was $1,097,238,421.00 (that's $1.097 Billion) to support a population of 72,503 students. Elementary School (47%), Middle School (23%) and High School (30%). We are adding students at the rate of about 2,000 per year.

Per student spending based on the total above is $15,134 which also includes capital improvements (i.e. new schools, technology upgrades, etc.)

Only 37% of the above comes from the county. The rest comes from the state and some from the federal level.

The sheer numbers are enough to boggle the mind. That's why it is so important to spend each dollar wisely.

[offroadkarter]

Thats a very good video, i agree with alot of it.

We need to set less immigrants in.

[RCSignals]

Well, I have had my eye on this thread for quite some time, I didnt get involved because religion politics etc. I feel does not have any relevance in a car forum. Since I got sucked in, I should first say I am American of Mexican and Cuban roots, my parents were both born here, and I have tons friends and family that are not as fortunate as I am. I feel that we should have common sense immigratiom reform, people that have roots here, i.e. Children, a job, possilbe education and NO criminal background should be given better options to stay. I feel that immigration is what this country was founded on, the only true americans are the Indians.

I also disagree with the idea that they are depleting the system, yes, there is free school, free doctors etc. but americans who do not work get these benefits as well. Many immigrants do not use these free services for fear of being deported. In addition, many of the immigrants work, and they buy things so they DO pay into taxes. Let alone the many that work often pay into tax anyway. I said my piece, I have seen many numbers, I dont agree with many of the far-right wing conservatives that give half-truths like many politicans do.

OK. I am an Immigrant to this country. I am also now a citizen of this country.

Lets first use the word Immigrant to define those people who follow the law and system of the country to move here, live and work.

All others are not Immigrants in that sense. They are here only because they came on their own and now exercise some sense of entitlement to stay, live and work, and be provided services in their native language.

Others such as my self are informed directly that we are not to become a burden on US society or economy, or else we are subject to immediate deportation. We are told the language of the land is English, and we are expected to develop a working understanding of it.

To qualify to come we must pass personal and criminal background checks first, not after living here for a few years.

We are told that after a time, basically 5 years, of living and contributing to US society we can qualify to apply for citizenship.

These rules exist and are not difficult to follow. There should be no reform to just allow people to "arrive live and work"
Those who do should be deported and told to make application as does everyone else.
People who are here illegally should not be rewarded just because they weren't caught, and should not be given any 'fast track' to citizenship.

This is not some "far-right wing" concept nor any "half-truths".

Any reforms should consider reforming criteria for application and quotas. There should also be a better system to provide those from non English speaking counties access to English language classes. This would be far less expensive than perpetually providing services in multiple languages.

[RCSignals]

Yeah, I know how much that is. :rolleyes:

FREE costs one heck of a lot............. and it represents the most significant expenditure for the county above anything else. Here 58 cents from every dollar goes to support education.

At 5% interest on $1 Billion, the $57.750 Million would only run our county schools for 9.5 days.

The recently approved FY2008 School Budget for the county was $1,097,238,421.00 (that's $1.097 Billion) to support a population of 72,503 students. Elementary School (47%), Middle School (23%) and High School (30%). We are adding students at the rate of about 2,000 per year.

Per student spending based on the total above is $15,134 which also includes capital improvements (i.e. new schools, technology upgrades, etc.)

Only 37% of the above comes from the county. The rest comes from the state and some from the federal level.

The sheer numbers are enough to boggle the mind. That's why it is so important to spend each dollar wisely.

Exactly. There is nothing 'Free' about it.

[TheBossMM]

double post

[TheBossMM]

First, I was born and raised in Miami, FL. where I witnessed the immigration problem first hand.<?xml:namespace prefix = o /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>

Not to get all emotional but I honestly feel that the only people who cannot understand where the illegals are coming from are: 1) not well traveled or 2) grew up in a too sheltered life to understand what these people give up and risk coming here TO WORK IN HOPE TO BETTER THEIR FAMILY'S LIFE.

Try eating scraps for a week (let alone a lifetime), watch your children getting sub par education, cry from hunger and tell me that you will wait YEARS in hopes of coming to America where with hard work you can better their lives and future.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>

Most of the immigrants who come here by illegal means CANNOT AFFORD TO WAIT YEARS APPLYING TO COME HERE LEGALLY. In fact, many of them would not be approved anyway because they are under educated and cannot PROVE that they will not be a burden on the American public.

Nevertheless, hunger will cause people to try desperate measures.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
It is against human nature to watch your children suffer and DO NOTHING.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Come on people, let’s be serious for a minute. You know that for the last 20 years our government was deliberately looking the other way when it came to illegal immigrants because big business wanted cheap labor. Now, after people have been here for 15 plus years, had kids or (brought them young) who don’t know ANYTHING about their native country, you ask them to leave? WOW, who said evil doesn’t exist?<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>

I don’t agree with open borders by ANY MEANS. However, we all know that our government f-up by kissing the a$$e$ of big business and now we have this problem. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>

Please, remember that this country was founded on the POOR and HOMELESS of the WORLD. Hardworking and motivated people built this great country of ours. As a matter of fact, the illegals are still building much of it.

If the immigration laws were as tough than as they are now, trust me, many of us would not be here. For example, my neighbor who came here from Poland in the early 1900s only had to register at Ellis Island and pay $5.00. That is IT. Register and pay $5.00. He always tells us that story whenever this topic comes up.

Now, people use their whole live savings trying to get their families here and many times can only afford to send one family member here (as a maid, cleaning lady, etc) just to send some money back home so that the kids don’t starve. Yes ladies and gentleman, they spilt off the family and sacrifice their dignity working ***** jobs just so that their kids can eat.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>

I don’t post here much but I read a lot. I try so hard to stay out of these threads because I get disillusioned in people’s reactions.<o:p></o:p>

[RCSignals]

First, I was born and raised in Miami, FL. where I witnessed the immigration problem first hand.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>

Not to get all emotional but I honestly feel that the only people who cannot understand where the illegals are coming from are: 1) not well traveled or 2) grew up in a too sheltered life to understand what these people give up and risk coming here TO WORK IN HOPE TO BETTER THEIR FAMILY'S LIFE.

Try eating scraps for a week (let alone a lifetime), watch your children getting sub par education, cry from hunger and tell me that you will wait YEARS in hopes of coming to America where with hard work you can better their lives and future.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>

Most of the immigrants who come here by illegal means CANNOT AFFORD TO WAIT YEARS APPLYING TO COME HERE LEGALLY. In fact, many of them would not be approved anyway because they are under educated and cannot PROVE that they will not be a burden on the American public.

Nevertheless, hunger will cause people to try desperate measures.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
It is against human nature to watch your children suffer and DO NOTHING.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Come on people, let’s be serious for a minute. You know that for the last 20 years our government was deliberately looking the other way when it came to illegal immigrants because big business wanted cheap labor. Now, after people have been here for 15 plus years, had kids or (brought them young) who don’t know ANYTHING about their native country, you ask them to leave? WOW, who said evil doesn’t exist?<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>

I don’t agree with open borders by ANY MEANS. However, we all know that our government f-up by kissing the a$$e$ of big business and now we have this problem. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>

Please, remember that this country was founded on the POOR and HOMELESS of the WORLD. Hardworking and motivated people built this great country of ours. As a matter of fact, the illegals are still building much of it.

If the immigration laws were as tough than as they are now, trust me, many of us would not be here. For example, my neighbor who came here from Poland in the early 1900s only had to register at Ellis Island and pay $5.00. That is IT. Register and pay $5.00. He always tells us that story whenever this topic comes up.

Now, people use their whole live savings trying to get their families here and many times can only afford to send one family member here (as a maid, cleaning lady, etc) just to send some money back home so that the kids don’t starve. Yes ladies and gentleman, they spilt off the family and sacrifice their dignity working ***** jobs just so that their kids can eat.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>

I don’t post here much but I read a lot. I try so hard to stay out of these threads because I get disillusioned in people’s reactions.<o:p></o:p>






Any reforms should consider reforming criteria for application and quotas. There should also be a better system to provide those from non English speaking counties access to English language classes. This would be far less expensive than perpetually providing services in multiple languages.

Your Polish friend did not come Illegally. He followed the rules, registered, and paid his money. $5.00 may not be much now, but it was in 1900.

He was more than likely very proud to be here, and wanted to become American in every way he could, including the language.

Those who simply 'arrive' and stay with a sense of entitlement should not be rewarded for it.

[MENINBLK]

Please, remember that this country was founded on the POOR and HOMELESS of the WORLD.


This country was founded on what ???

Try reading Crazy Horse.
You will be in for the education of your life.
This country was founded on GREED and INCONSIDERATION.

[duhtroll]

I think both of you are saying the same thing.



This country was founded on what ???

Try reading Crazy Horse.
You will be in for the education of your life.
This country was founded on GREED and INCONSIDERATION.

[Krytin]

OK. I am an Immigrant to this country. I am also now a citizen of this country.

Lets first use the word Immigrant to define those people who follow the law and system of the country to move here, live and work.

All others are not Immigrants in that sense. They are here only because they came on their own and now exercise some sense of entitlement to stay, live and work, and be provided services in their native language.

Others such as my self are informed directly that we are not to become a burden on US society or economy, or else we are subject to immediate deportation. We are told the language of the land is English, and we are expected to develop a working understanding of it.

To qualify to come we must pass personal and criminal background checks first, not after living here for a few years.

We are told that after a time, basically 5 years, of living and contributing to US society we can qualify to apply for citizenship.

These rules exist and are not difficult to follow. There should be no reform to just allow people to "arrive live and work"
Those who do should be deported and told to make application as does everyone else.
People who are here illegally should not be rewarded just because they weren't caught, and should not be given any 'fast track' to citizenship.

This is not some "far-right wing" concept nor any "half-truths".

Any reforms should consider reforming criteria for application and quotas. There should also be a better system to provide those from non English speaking counties access to English language classes. This would be far less expensive than perpetually providing services in multiple languages.

Very well said - my grandparents arrived through Ellis Island and needed to prove that they would not become a burden on society and stay gainfully employed/pay there own way in all aspects.
It's only fair to expect EVERYONE to do the same - not just the ones who can run, jump or swim across the boarders!

[TheBossMM]

This country was founded on what ???

Try reading Crazy Horse.
You will be in for the education of your life.
This country was founded on GREED and INCONSIDERATION.


"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."

So this saying means nothing? Must not mean anything because the tired and poor cannot afford to wait years and pay for all the paper work that needs to get filed before you are even considered for a visa. It seems to me that only the middle class from other countries who can afford to wait and pay these very high fees are now welcome.

Maybe the Statue of Liberty should be removed or updated? Its message conflicts with our current stand on immigration.

However, like I said in my post, I do NOT agree with open borders but poor, hungry, and desperate people were enticed to come here with a government that for the last 20 yrs. intentionally looked the other way in order to please big business's (read campaign contributors) need and want of cheap labor.

This thread, instead of condemning the corrupt government, condemns the hungry and the helpless who wanted no more than our ancestors did and that is a shame.

[TheBossMM]

If the immigration laws were as tough than as they are now, trust me, many of us would not be here. For example, my neighbor who came here from Poland in the early 1900s only had to register at Ellis Island and pay $5.00. That is IT. Register and pay $5.00. He always tells us that story whenever this topic comes up.


Your Polish friend did not come Illegally. He followed the rules, registered, and paid his money. $5.00 may not be much now, but it was in 1900.

He was more than likely very proud to be here, and wanted to become American in every way he could, including the language.

Those who simply 'arrive' and stay with a sense of entitlement should not be rewarded for it.

You do clearly not understanding what I was trying to get at.

My Polish neighbor did follow the rules but the rules were SIMPLE AND EASY TO FOLLOW!

He arrived here in a matter of months and not YEARS. Secondly, he arrived here without having to risk his life or those of his loved ones by crossing a dangerous desert/ rivers etc. Thirdly, registering was easy and simple even though he understood very little English at the time. Lastly, $5.00 was not a lot of money at the time. Anyone coming here arrived with more since they left/ sold many of their possessions back home. The fees charged now are too expansive for the poor in America, let alone the poor of other countries.

I understand that rules are rules and laws are laws but lets also keep the blame where it belongs. Nobody with any understanding of hunger can blame people for braking the rules/ laws when they know that "if" they make it here the government will intentionally look the other way in order to please big business. Now, after 20 yrs. of looking the other way, the poor are blamed.

[Leadfoot281]

It's not the big business that's corrupt, it's the Mexican government.

They've been taking advantage of US, by allowing their unemployed to come here. Mexico can't build a border wall? If they took care of their people the way we do, there wouldn't be this issue.

These people are escaping from their country. They are doing that, not because we have it it nice, but because their country sucks. That is not my fault.

I suppose I'm part of the "immigration" problem too. I'm single, have a three bedroom house, and a pair of huge four door cars. I have, they don't. I assume that means I have to share it with them?

I wonder how they'd respond if millions of us poured over the border, took their jobs, used their economic resources, and sent their money out of their country. They'd want to build a wall too. They could do it much more cheaply than us too.

[sailsmen]

The problem w/ Mexico is Mexicans.

Allow the illegal Mexicans to come to the US and live here. You now have the same problem in the US that is in Mexico caused by the same people. Name one area in the US where a large population of illegal Mexicans is living that you would buy a house in and move in with your family.

These illegals need to stay in Mexico and change their own country, just like the founding fathers did here.

So long as we continue to allow an illegal underground labor force in the US Mexico will continue the way it is. Ship back the 15-20% of the Mexican population that are here as illegals and working here to Mexico and w/ in 6 months Mexico will be transformed.

We are becoming puppets of the corrupt Mexican politicians and businessmen. Facilitating their continued corruption.

Those that hire and pay illegals are no better than slave traders. Taking advantage of cheap illegal labor. Illegal labor that has no insurance and no recourse againest you. Those that hire illegals are perpetuating illegal labor and proping up a corrupt government that continues a cycle of poverty.

ps I don't give money to prostitutes, drug dealers or drug addicts either.

[RCSignals]

You do clearly not understanding what I was trying to get at.

My Polish neighbor did follow the rules but the rules were SIMPLE AND EASY TO FOLLOW!

He arrived here in a matter of months and not YEARS. Secondly, he arrived here without having to risk his life or those of his loved ones by crossing a dangerous desert/ rivers etc. Thirdly, registering was easy and simple even though he understood very little English at the time. Lastly, $5.00 was not a lot of money at the time. Anyone coming here arrived with more since they left/ sold many of their possessions back home. The fees charged now are too expansive for the poor in America, let alone the poor of other countries.

I understand that rules are rules and laws are laws but lets also keep the blame where it belongs. Nobody with any understanding of hunger can blame people for braking the rules/ laws when they know that "if" they make it here the government will intentionally look the other way in order to please big business. Now, after 20 yrs. of looking the other way, the poor are blamed.


I understand completely. I'm not sure you do

[TheBossMM]

ps I don't give money to prostitutes, drug dealers or drug addicts either.

But you do give money to a corrupt American Government that has intentionally looked the other way and you do eat the fruit and vegetables that the illegals pick and you do buy products that where handled at least at one point by illegals immigrants.

You honestly believe that the farmers, construction companies, cleaning companies, and many other business’s don't KNOW that they hired illegals immigrants?

Don't kid yourself. These business owners SPECIFICALLY hire illegals immigrants because it cheap labor and therefore increase their profits. They pay off our politicians via campaign contributions to DO NOTHING.

Ohh and I wish that I can say the same about prostitutes.:lol:

[Leadfoot281]

"The problem with Mexico is Mexicans"...

Interesting point. What if they became Americans? I can't remember the last time I seen poor, hungry, jobless Minnesotans jumping into the Mississippi river and swimming to Wisconsin.

Why don't we just turn Mexico into the 51st state?

[TheBossMM]

Why don't we just turn Mexico into the 51st state?

That idea is so cool.

Now we can finish what we started in 1946. I am sure many will agree with you here.

The Mexican American War (1946) was the first time that <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comhttp://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/ /><st1:country-region><st1:place><font color=" /><st1:country-region><st1:place><FONT color=black>America</st1:place></st1:country-region><FONT color=black> has fought a war with land expansion as its MAIN goal.

<FONT color=black>President Polk, with a pre-drafted declaration of war, asked Congress to declare war against <st1:country-region><st1:place><FONT color=black><st1:country-region><st1:place>Mexico</st1:place></st1:country-region><FONT color=black></st1:place></st1:country-region>. President Polk knew that <st1:country-region><st1:place><FONT color=black><st1:country-region><st1:place>Mexico</st1:place></st1:country-region><FONT color=black></st1:place></st1:country-region> would lose the war and would gain new land as a result.

<FONT color=black><?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "<font" /><o:p></o:p>
<FONT color=black>The Mexican American war lasted two years, and ended with the signing of the Treaty of Guadeloupe on <st1:date Year="1848" Day="2" Month="2"><FONT color=black><st1:date Year="1848" Day="2" Month="2">February 2 1848</st1:date><FONT color=black></st1:date>. With the Treaty of Guadeloupe the <st1:country-region><st1:place><FONT color=black><st1:country-region><st1:place>United States</st1:place></st1:country-region><FONT color=black></st1:place></st1:country-region> had succeeded in completing its Manifest Destiny.
<FONT color=black><?xml:namespace prefix = u1 /><u1:p></u1:p>
<FONT color=black><u1:p></u1:p><u1:p></u1:p>The <st1:country-region><st1:place><FONT color=black><st1:country-region><st1:place>United States</st1:place></st1:country-region><FONT color=black></st1:place></st1:country-region> completed its Manifest Destiny at the cost of the Mexican government and its people. <o:p></o:p>

[Bluerauder]

That idea is so cool.

Now we can finish what we started in 1946. I am sure many will agree with you here.

The Mexican American War (1946) was the first time that <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com[IMG]http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/ /><st1:country-region><st1:place><font color=" /><st1:country-region><st1:place><FONT color=black>America</st1:place></st1:country-region><FONT color=black> has fought a war with land expansion as its MAIN goal.
I must have missed this one in history classes .... 1946 ??? Off by one hundred years ............ :o

[sailsmen]

I do not give my money to a corrupt US Gov't. It is taken from me by threat of force.

My house was built w/ legal labor. My clients only use legal labor.

Most of the fruit and vegtables I buy are from Mexico and Peru. I don't know if they are hiring illegals.

This country was founded by people seeking religous freedom, not the poor and homeless.

You talk about war, the Mexican Army is firing upon our Border Patrol Agents and trespassing on US territory.

Mexico is a corrupt country w/ corrupt people.

Being from LA a corrupt state 3rd world country and formerly NO a corrupt 4th world country I have an understanding.

You can only have a corrupt gov't if you have corrupt people. The good people can band together and through out the corrupt gov't. To a large extent we have done this recently on a local and state level. One of the prev governors is in jail, I know the man who turned states evidence againest him and 3 previous ins comm were in jail. The former mayor of NO and a current Congressman are under investigation. The jailed Governor was elected due to bumper sticker that read "vote for the crook it's important". His opponent was a KKK Grand Wizard who subs went to jail. We held our noses and voted for the crook.

LA is last on just about every measurable list, except we are 11th highest on taxation. We have the Port to the MS and the Energy gateway. 25% of the Nations Energy and 25% of it's goods pass thru LA.

With all that money and all these resources why are we last on the list for every quality of life measurement? Simple corruption!

As long as 20% or any signif part of the Mexican population is here working illegally the corrupt government in Mexico will exist. We must deport the illegals and close the borders. It is the only way the good Mexicans will transform Mexico.

Employers, landlords, auto dealers s/b heavily penalized including jail time for hiring illegals.

[sailsmen]

[QUOTE=TheBossMM;492661][COLOR=black]First, I was born and raised in Miami, FL. where I witnessed the immigration problem first hand.<?xml:namespace prefix = o /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>

I am living it and witnessing it. 3 of my relatives who did not speak English came here legally and started a business. In 2005 on it's 100th anniversary it was recognized as the best in the nation.

They employ 100 people. Over the years many have been legal immigrants who barely spoke english. Most of them were not from the country of the 3.

Many only worked at this business. I have known many who make over $100K a year and live the American dream.

After the hurricane we elected to pay all who had been there a year full pay including benefits. The uncertainty about the future was greater than it had ever been. Yet we knew our assets were not our physical structure or our name, but our employees.

The business unlike many of our competitors is doing well. % in that my clients did the same and they are doing very well.

I remember one of these relatives as a child speaking to me in a heavy accent in his house.
My grandmother spoke a foreign lang first. I remember this lang being spoken around me as a child at home. Yet all learned english and spoke it exclusively outside the home.

I have witnessed first hand the illegal labor as a result of Katrina and it is not pretty. Nor does it look good for the future.

[rvaldez1]

The problem w/ Mexico is Mexicans.

Allow the illegal Mexicans to come to the US and live here. You now have the same problem in the US that is in Mexico caused by the same people. Name one area in the US where a large population of illegal Mexicans is living that you would buy a house in and move in with your family.

These illegals need to stay in Mexico and change their own country, just like the founding fathers did here.

So long as we continue to allow an illegal underground labor force in the US Mexico will continue the way it is. Ship back the 15-20% of the Mexican population that are here as illegals and working here to Mexico and w/ in 6 months Mexico will be transformed.

We are becoming puppets of the corrupt Mexican politicians and businessmen. Facilitating their continued corruption.

Those that hire and pay illegals are no better than slave traders. Taking advantage of cheap illegal labor. Illegal labor that has no insurance and no recourse againest you. Those that hire illegals are perpetuating illegal labor and proping up a corrupt government that continues a cycle of poverty.

ps I don't give money to prostitutes, drug dealers or drug addicts either.
Great point cause you know, the founding fathers didnt come here from Europe :confused:

[TheBossMM]

I must have missed this one in history classes .... 1946 ??? Off by one hundred years ............ :o

Opps typo. Happens to the best of us. War began April 25, 1846.

[sailsmen]

The founding fathers came from England or were born here. The America's were an English Colony. The English gov't granted charters for some of it's citizens to imigrate to it's colony's.

In what other country will illiegal workers protest for additional rights while waiving a foreign flag?

Twist the facts all you want. The founding fathers at considerable risk opposed and fought againest their own government.

We have been invaded by illegal foreigners who choose which laws they will obey all while protesting for special rights. Their corrupt government is facilitating this to continue to stay in power.

[rvaldez1]

The founding fathers came from England or were born here. The America's were an English Colony. The English gov't granted charters for some of it's citizens to imigrate to it's colony's.

In what other country will illiegal workers protest for additional rights while waiving a foreign flag?

Twist the facts all you want. The founding fathers at considerable risk opposed and fought againest their own government.

We have been invaded by illegal foreigners who choose which laws they will obey all while protesting for special rights. Their corrupt government is facilitating this to continue to stay in power.

Yes, thanks for the 4th grade history lesson. The point I was making is that this country has been founded on, and flourished on immigrants. Every protest I have seen has boasted both foreign flags AND American Flags. That is the meaning behind most of the protest, they want to become American. Maybe if foreign flags are the problem we should not have St. Patricks day parades showing irish flags either.

I dont want to make it seem that coming in Illegaly is right. I understand why some of these laws are in place. I just dont feel the economy can handle such a loss of the workforce. I also feel that there should be more options for non-criminal immigrants living here already, whether that be a larger fee or whatever.

[duhtroll]

We can't get rid of foreign flags. Then we'd have to get rid of things like Cinco de Mayo and St. Patrick's day.

Or any other thing that gives people a reason to get drunk off their asses.




Yes, thanks for the 4th grade history lesson. The point I was making is that this country has been founded on, and flourished on immigrants. Every protest I have seen has boasted both foreign flags AND American Flags. That is the meaning behind most of the protest, they want to become American. Maybe if foreign flags are the problem we should not have St. Patricks day parades showing irish flags either.

I dont want to make it seem that coming in Illegaly is right. I understand why some of these laws are in place. I just dont feel the economy can handle such a loss of the workforce. I also feel that there should be more options for non-criminal immigrants living here already, whether that be a larger fee or whatever.

[Motorhead350]

I work with a bunch of people from Mexico in the summer and to me their great people. They work harder than anyone else are always friendly and willing how to teach me the language and I help them too. Also a lot just earn what they can and send 80% of their money back to Mexico so the ones that didn't make it over here can have a better life. I'd say they got some.... GUTS to be doing something like that. Risking everything going to another country, staying above tha law (not all do I'm just saying) all to have a better life and to take care of the ones they love.

Whenever the chance comes up I help. If they want a whole lotta tee shirts to send to Mexico I'll give mine away I don't care, anything I can do to help. My parents were the first born in this country, so in the end I'm not from here either. The Mexicans I work with seem to have it going good. They have decent cars, heck some have 3.... Hondas :D but their working just like anyone else and I don't see a problem with that. I don't see them taking jobs away from people because they ones they do take no one wants.... even if the pay is crap, it's better than what they had and they are thankful for that. So again I don't care, let them in to have a better life.

[RCSignals]

Yes, thanks for the 4th grade history lesson. The point I was making is that this country has been founded on, and flourished on immigrants. Every protest I have seen has boasted both foreign flags AND American Flags. That is the meaning behind most of the protest, they want to become American. Maybe if foreign flags are the problem we should not have St. Patricks day parades showing irish flags either.

I dont want to make it seem that coming in Illegaly is right. I understand why some of these laws are in place. I just dont feel the economy can handle such a loss of the workforce. I also feel that there should be more options for non-criminal immigrants living here already, whether that be a larger fee or whatever.


Actually it seems you do want to make it seem coming in illegally is right, or at least should be tolerated.

The economy can handle such a "loss" from the workforce. Just look at unemployment.
Know any Americans with families who have trouble finding work, any work? I do.
Don't start with the "won't take the work" either. that's just political rhetoric.
non-criminal "immigrants" who are here illegally are not "Immigrants" and are by mere fact of being here in the capacity they are, "criminals". Like it or not.
Try it in most other countries, and see what happens.

[Bluerauder]

This has been an interesting discussion up to this point. However, I think that many people have missed the entire point of the video that was posted and have gotten embroiled in emotional points. No doubt that illegal aliens put a drain on existing resources.

The whole point of the video is that WE AS A SOCIETY cannot continue to sustain the numbers that have crossed the border to find a better life. Taxes continue to rise to support the demand for more schools, more police, more fire & rescue, hospital and health care facilities, more roads, more .... well everything. And it is the citizens of this country that are footing the WHOLE bill. That is the issue ... plain and simple. Our ability to continue to absorb the cost is being strained now and there's no improvement in sight.

I don't know what the solution is .... but tighter immigration laws and enforcement of those laws is a must. Just look at the NUMBERS and the gumballs in the video.

[rvaldez1]

Yes, it has been interesting. I feel like I am in public policy class. lol. I respect everyones opinion no matter how much they differ from mine. I just get sooo heated about these topics. Good points everyone.