EMP/Stewart high performance water pump install

[Blackened300a]

Last week I ordered a new water pump from EMP/Stewart for the 2V and 4V Ford modular engines. Summit Racing sells them for $150. Its a high performance eight vane water pump that instead of taking 10-15HP that the stock water pump robs, this mechanical water pump is advertised to only rob 3HP. IMO I feel its a safer and cheaper alternative to a electric.
Install was very straight forward and easy, The most time consuming part was waiting for the engine to cool off before I can start wrenching.

To Start I removed the 2 bolts on top of the fan shroud, one to hold the coolant reservoir and the other holding the power steering reservoir and pushed them off to the side. I then removed the two remaining bolts on the side of the shroud, unplugged the fan and removed the entire fan assembly. I could have probably done the job with it still in place but I didnt want to kill myself.
With the belt still in place, loosen the water pump pulley bolts, then remove the belt and pulley
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d12/blackened300a/Engine/DSCN0639.jpg

At this time you can go ahead and drain the water out of the cooling system, open the reservoir cap and remove to the plug on the coolant tube to let it all drain. I didnt manage to drain all the coolant out of the system because when I pulled the pump out I still managed to make a bit of a mess but not as bad as if I left the water in.
Remove the 4 bolts around the pump and pull the pump out, it may take a little strength but it will pop out.
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d12/blackened300a/Engine/DSCN0638.jpg

Here is what the vanes on the new pump on the right looks like compared to stock
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d12/blackened300a/Engine/DSCN0637.jpg

I used a little grease on the O-ring of the new pump and used a little never seize on the bolts. I cleaned up the area with a clean rag then lined it up and popped it in. I dont have a torque wrench handy so I made them tight but not crazy tight.
Once installed it looks almost stock.
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d12/blackened300a/Engine/DSCN0636.jpg


Now where the fun begins, I have steeda underdrive pulleys and the box said that works great with underdrives and stock pulleys, I install the pulley and bolts are just a bit too long that they stick out past the pulley mount and hit the pump housing. The remedy for this was 4 lock washers, it took up the gap and tightened up with no issues.
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d12/blackened300a/Engine/DSCN0641.jpg

I then reinstalled the belt and tightened up the pulley bolts
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d12/blackened300a/Engine/DSCN0633.jpg


Then it was only a matter of reinstalling the fan assembly and putting the coolant tank and power steering reservoir back into place.
I then filled the coolant tank to the cold line and then filled the coolant tube.
I started the engine and burped the system til there were no more air bubbles.
Mission success!!
If I didnt wait almost 2 hours for the engine to cool, this entire install from start to finish was less then a hour.
I went for the test drive and the SOTP feeling is there, It definitly feels easier to accelerate with less pedal and the needle remained pointing at the 20MPH mark
For $150 and an hour of your time its definitly worth installing this mod. I highly reccomend it for those of you who are a bit nervous about installing a electric water pump but still want to lighten the load on the engine

Two big thumbs up on this mod!:2thumbs:

[sabtaj1]

interesting. Good write up. But I have one question, The fins on the water pumps look like they are in oppisite directions for water flow, I may be wrong but looking at the pictures it looks that way????

[Blackened300a]

interesting. Good write up. But I have one question, The fins on the water pumps look like they are in oppisite directions for water flow, I may be wrong but looking at the pictures it looks that way????

I actually took a double look at the new one vs stock and they are indeed facing the same way, the fins on the stock pump look boxed like the paddles on a steam boat.

[Krytin]

Very well done Paul!
This will be my next mod as I'm over 60k on the clock and it not good to wait for the pump to go and overheat the motor - at least that's what I'm telling the wife!
That's my story and I'm sticking to it!

[Blackened300a]

Very well done Paul!
This will be my next mod as I'm over 60k on the clock and it not good to wait for the pump to go and overheat the motor - at least that's what I'm telling the wife!
That's my story and I'm sticking to it!

Ill gladly back up your story! Thanks for the idea Paul, When you mentioned it, I grabbed a catalog and placed the order. This was a no brainer mod. Vey simple and rewarding.
I actually called you when I recieved it on Thursday.

[GreekGod]

...thanks for your report.

"Its a high performance eight vane water pump that instead of taking 10-15HP that the stock water pump robs, this mechanical water pump is advertised to only rob 3HP"

Forgive my scepticism, but I find it difficult to believe such gains are possible, even with your butt-meter confirmation. Placebo effect is more likely. Does anyone have a dyno report?. Even a 5 hp gain should show up, and be well worth the price.

[Blackened300a]

...thanks for your report.

"Its a high performance eight vane water pump that instead of taking 10-15HP that the stock water pump robs, this mechanical water pump is advertised to only rob 3HP"

Forgive my scepticism, but I find it difficult to believe such gains are possible, even with your butt-meter confirmation. Placebo effect is more likely. Does anyone have a dyno report?. Even a 5 hp gain should show up, and be well worth the price.

I based it on what you gain back by replacing your mechanical water pump with a electric.

[Krytin]

Ill gladly back up your story! Thanks for the idea Paul, When you mentioned it, I grabbed a catalog and placed the order. This was a no brainer mod. Vey simple and rewarding.
I actually called you when I recieved it on Thursday.
I got the message but just today slowed down enough at work to try and comunicate with friends and family!

[Raudermaster]

Man, that's a LOT cheaper than the Meizere.

[Glenn]

Great install narrative and pictures. Very interesting mod. Have any car magazines done any articles on this pump? A dyno test would be very interesting.

Glenn

[bigmerc'03]

part number please

[Marauderjack]

part number please


^^+1:beer:

[Blackened300a]

part number please

EMP-STE50046S for 4V Engines

EMP-STE50046L for 2V Engines

[1stMerc]

Interesting, these people don't recommend using UDP's on a street car.

""Stewart Components does NOT recommend the use of underdrive pulleys on any STREET application. Stewart high-flow water pumps only consume 2.26 horsepower at 4,000 RPM, so the actual savings in parasitic horsepower loss through the use of underdrive pulleys is minimal. In addition, a properly designed cooling system's flow and efficiency are designed to operate at a given speed. In years of testing, Stewart has consistently proven that the engine will lose more horsepower due to higher operating temperatures than any possible gain from underdrive pulleys."

[Glenn]

The UDP have no affect on cooling an engine especially if as most people do, adjust any drop in idle rpm by +100 rpm or so. Also, the real advantage to the UDPs is the harmonic balancer. It definitely causes the engine to rev quicker and is more responsive. There has been several dyno tests of 8-10 hp increases. It is a very worth while mod and very cost effective for the HP.

PS: Even FRPP offers it in their catalog to improve performance.

Glenn

[Marauderjack]

EMP-STE50046S for 4V Engines

EMP-STE50046L for 2V Engines

Thanks for the part numbers!!:beer:

Anyone know the part number for the 180* thermostat.....I had a NAPA number but can't find it!!:argue:

I'm going to change the coolant, thermostat and WP at the same time!!;)

Marauderjack:burnout:

[snowbird]

Congrats on that interesting tread. Nice find and nice report !! :)

[Blackened300a]

<TABLE id=table1 style="BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" cellPadding=0 width=513 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD colSpan=2>

Ford Mustang 4.6 High Performance/Replacement Water Pumps
</TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=2>STE50046S - Fits Mid 2001 – 2004 Mustangs</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width=278>
Inspired by top Ford 4.6 engine builder Sean Hyland, the new EMP Stewart Components Mustang Water Pump fills an industry void for a for a high performance water pump for this engine. Also perfect as a cost effective original equipment replacement upgrade, these pumps are available in both long and short versions fitting either of the two or four-valve 4.6 Mustang powerplants.
</TD><TD width=235>
http://www.stewartcomponents.net/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/StewartFord4.gif
</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width=513 colSpan=2>Features/Benefits:

- Perfect For Stock or Aftermarket Pulleys
- Increased Water Flow
- Stainless Steel Impeller
- Heavy Duty Bearing
- Long Life Carbon Graphite Seal
- Requires Less Than 3 Horsepower

This is what it says on the EMP site about this pump, "Perfect for Stock or Aftermarket pulleys.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[Blackened300a]

Congrats on that interesting tread. Nice find and nice report !! :)

Thanks, I like to share with the Marauder community.
:beer:

[GreekGod]

Thanks for the "propaganda" post. I'm still not convinced, There must be a trade-off. If they are that much better than stock, it seems Ford would offer it as a Racing parts catalog item.

[Blackened300a]

Thanks for the "propaganda" post. I'm still not convinced, There must be a trade-off. If they are that much better than stock, it seems Ford would offer it as a Racing parts catalog item.

Propaganda or not, I have put on over 50 miles since the install Saturday afternoon and nothing abnormal so far. I plan to put my car on the dyno after a header install so we shall see if my HP gains are a bit higher then the average gains for a full exhaust set-up.
I think Krytin (Paul) is planning on getting his car on the dyno soon. Maybe he can be the test mule for what gains this mod really gives.

[magindat]

I read the skepticism in these posts, but look at the pics and notice:

There is more swept area on each vane.
The pump uses the block itself as the volute.
There is less mass (apparently) to the impeller.
There is a flow cone from the center of the impeller.

So, if there is more area with less of an angle, there will be the same flow, but with less pressure but requiring less torque. If there's less mass, then, less torque is required. If the block is used as the volute, there is more room for impeller blade area. If there is a flow cone then the impeller better directs the 'suction' through the stator 'area' to the vanes, thus requiring less torque to force the mass of water that has no direction (stock). Torque over time is HP.

I'll believe it. And I'll bet it works even more efficiently (robbing less hp) if one has the 'cooling mod' as that mod requires less WP pressure for the same flow through the engine.

I don't think you'll see the power gains on the dyno as peak HP. I think there would be more available down low and off idle with this mod. I think if you dynoed before and after the slight gains would be in the lower to mid portion of the curve. Right where we drive and right where the SOTP meter is calibrated.

This one is on my list. Please let us know how it is for you over time!

[juno]

I wonder if it will fit a 5.4. I would like to try one on the truck.

[Marauderjack]

If the block is used as the "volute" as you state then will there be any errosion of the Aluminum in that area??:confused:

I have seen aluminum boat props go away pretty quickly due to cavitation and aeration....Just wonder about this application and design for longevity??:cool:

Marauderjack:burnout:

[Krytin]

I read the skepticism in these posts, but look at the pics and notice:

There is more swept area on each vane.
The pump uses the block itself as the volute.
There is less mass (apparently) to the impeller.
There is a flow cone from the center of the impeller.

So, if there is more area with less of an angle, there will be the same flow, but with less pressure but requiring less torque. If there's less mass, then, less torque is required. If the block is used as the volute, there is more room for impeller blade area. If there is a flow cone then the impeller better directs the 'suction' through the stator 'area' to the vanes, thus requiring less torque to force the mass of water that has no direction (stock). Torque over time is HP.

I'll believe it. And I'll bet it works even more efficiently (robbing less hp) if one has the 'cooling mod' as that mod requires less WP pressure for the same flow through the engine.

I don't think you'll see the power gains on the dyno as peak HP. I think there would be more available down low and off idle with this mod. I think if you dynoed before and after the slight gains would be in the lower to mid portion of the curve. Right where we drive and right where the SOTP meter is calibrated.

This one is on my list. Please let us know how it is for you over time!
Yep, what he said^^
I also belive the carbon graphite seals will have less drag as well.

[magindat]

If the block is used as the "volute" as you state then will there be any errosion of the Aluminum in that area??:confused:

I have seen aluminum boat props go away pretty quickly due to cavitation and aeration....Just wonder about this application and design for longevity??:cool:

Marauderjack:burnout:

Well, if you run acid instead of water as a coolant, it sure will. Water does not and cannot erode aluminum on it's own.

The whole boat prop thing is not due to a physical issue. And forget what the boat places say. Chemistry is chemistry and it always will be. Aluminum boat props give them selves up as the weakest metal due to a potential difference between dissimilar metals and an electrolyte (water). And don't say (I only run in fresh water) cuz it doesn't matter. Take any 'natural' water source and stick two electrodes in it and it'll conduct. Stick a ZINC sacrificial anode on your outdrive and see what wears out. It won't be the prop, it'll be the weaker zinc. Keep buying couple hundred dollar props or buy a $10 hunk of zinc. Your call.

That's why they say run distilled in a radiator. That's also part of the job of anti-freeze - to neutralize water electrically so no metal erodes anywhere in the engine.

Regardless of volute, the water that would erode a volute would also erode ANY aluminum part in the motor.

[magindat]

If the block is used as the "volute" as you state then will there be any errosion of the Aluminum in that area??:confused:

I have seen aluminum boat props go away pretty quickly due to cavitation and aeration....Just wonder about this application and design for longevity??:cool:

Marauderjack:burnout:

And one more thing... Cavitation is ruding the pressure on a liquid such that it 'boils' at a low temperature. Some describe it as ripping the water apart. Um, if you have cavitation in your motor, you need a new radiator cap, cuz it's supposed to be a about 20 PSI of PRESSURE and no VACUUM!

Also, if your water pump is areating, you need to replace your motor, cuz you overheated and popped a piston long before your WP areated your coolant! There should be NO AIR in your vehicle's cooling system to areate WITH!

[GreekGod]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavitation

"Inertial cavitation was first studied by Lord Rayleigh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_Rayleigh) in the late 19th century when he considered the collapse of a spherical void within a liquid. When a volume of liquid is subjected to a sufficiently low pressure (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pressure) it may rupture and form a cavity. This phenomenon is termed cavitation inception and may occur behind the blade of a rapidly rotating propeller or on any surface vibrating underwater with sufficient amplitude and acceleration."...

..."Although the collapse of cavities is a relatively low energy event, it is highly localized and can even erode metals such as steel. The pitting caused by the collapse of cavities produces great wear on components and can dramatically shorten a propeller or pump's lifetime."

[Master]

Just before anyone asks: Aeration and caviation are very different things. The descriptions above are quite accurate, but distinct. Just wanted to make the clarification before anyone asked. As for cavitation, are these water pumps non-cavitating? Cavitation does actually cause severe pitting when it is extreme enough. In fact, if it is severe enough, it can suck things apart. Check out a prop that has suffered severe cavitation damage. It isn't pretty!

[magindat]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavitation

"Inertial cavitation was first studied by Lord Rayleigh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_Rayleigh) in the late 19th century when he considered the collapse of a spherical void within a liquid. When a volume of liquid is subjected to a sufficiently low pressure (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pressure) it may rupture and form a cavity. This phenomenon is termed cavitation inception and may occur behind the blade of a rapidly rotating propeller or on any surface vibrating underwater with sufficient amplitude and acceleration."

100% correct. LOW PRESSURE. Vibration is simply acceleration in opposite directions with a cycle, the cycle's period is the frequency and distance is amplitude. The liquid ruptres and form a cavity. A cavity consisting of water vapor. Um, that would technically be a 'boil'. Boiling point decreases as pressure on the liquid's surface decreases. Why do you think a cooling system can run 240 and not boil? That would be the OPPOSITE phenominon - PRESSURE.
The blade or vane would have to move quickly enough to overcome not only the pressure of the weight of the water itself, but also overcome the pressure of the cooling system. Therefore, in a pressurized system, either the vane would have to be nearly purposely built TO cavitate or the acceleration would have to be phenominal to cause cavitation, again IN A PRESSURIZED SYSTEM.
But that's not the point, is it? The point is, "would the aftermarket impeller erode aluminum" and the answer has nada to do with cavitation (which won't occur) at all. It has to do with coolant chemistry. So, the answer is still 'no' to erosion.
Furthermore, the above definition of cavitation is a fine definition, although the erosion of a boat propeller is still a chemical issue and not a physical issue.

[magindat]

Just before anyone asks: Aeration and caviation are very different things. The descriptions above are quite accurate, but distinct. Just wanted to make the clarification before anyone asked. As for cavitation, are these water pumps non-cavitating? Cavitation does actually cause severe pitting when it is extreme enough. In fact, if it is severe enough, it can suck things apart. Check out a prop that has suffered severe cavitation damage. It isn't pretty!

It's clear to me by the provided pictures (Thank you) that the new impeller is far superior in design and efficiency. If the new one cavitates, the old one is a "foam machine". I, for one, am extremely pleased to see a mechanical alternative to an electric water pump. I feel an electric pump taxes further an electrical system (in Marauders) that's already taxed enough (especially since I like my stereo).

I've replaced, serviced, ordered, and specified a few pump impellers (non-automotive) and I can see by comparison the new one is MUCH better in design and based on comparisons of past would be FAR more efficient.

Thanx again for sharing your discovery with us.

[Shora]

What a great write up. I gotta say, pictures make it that much better. I can believe that the pump is better than OEM but still cannot understand HOW it can save the Engine over 10 HP.

Also, do you think that the lock washers would still need to be used with stock pulleys?

Maginthat, I never knew that you had the same passion for water pumps as you do for stereos/ speakers. LOL

[Marauderjack]

JEEZ-A-LOO.....

I didn't mean to get you guys so worked up but let me make something clear.....I was screwing with boats before "magindat" was even born and don't need any explanation as to electrolysis, cavitation, or ventilation!!:shake: BTW.....Zincs only work in salt water.....fresh water requires magnesium!!;)

I have had at least 20 different boats in both fresh water and salt water...I've been here in Beaufort 17 years (Salt Water).......Some of the condescending attitudes around here are getting a little old!!:rolleyes:

Now I would like to speak with someone as to why the OEM pump has a plate on the vanes and the new one does not.......as high speed water turbulence will errode metals over time.....which may be why the OEM pumps have the plate on the vanes in the first place??:confused:

Simple answers without a bunch of "smoke" would be much appreciated.....IF anyone actually knows??:confused:

Sorry I Stirred this up!!:shake:

Marauderjack:(

[Big House]

WOW...this thread turned big time. I am waiting to see some down the road results. Great discovery...lets just leave it at that.

[Blackened300a]

What a great write up. I gotta say, pictures make it that much better.
Thanks, I always believed that a picture is worth a thousand words
I can believe that the pump is better than OEM but still cannot understand HOW it can save the Engine over 10 HP.
I based this on what a electric water pump with give you back when replacing the mechanical. Only a dyno can tell real world results
Also, do you think that the lock washers would still need to be used with stock pulleys?
The bolts came through and hit the pump housing and actually stopped the pulley from turning, If the stock pulley is a little thicker then the Steeda U/D set then no washers would be needed.




This one is on my list. Please let us know how it is for you over time!
Will do!, There is a SOTP improvement, nothing like the install of a T/C or 4.10s but it does accelerate quicker with less pedal so that must stand for something gained,


It's clear to me by the provided pictures (Thank you) that the new impeller is far superior in design and efficiency. If the new one cavitates, the old one is a "foam machine". I, for one, am extremely pleased to see a mechanical alternative to an electric water pump. I feel an electric pump taxes further an electrical system (in Marauders) that's already taxed enough (especially since I like my stereo).
I would have done a electric water pump long ago but putting the fate of my engine into the hands of a electric motor didnt sit well with me. I know this pump is turning and circulating water no matter what thats why this was a no-brainer to try it out.

Thanx again for sharing your discovery with us.
Not a prob, Thanks to Krytin for noticing this pump in the catalog, I have the modding bug that made me want to install this ASAP


WOW...this thread turned big time. I am waiting to see some down the road results. Great discovery...lets just leave it at that.
I agree, If this mod gives me the slightest bit of problems, you guys will be the first to hear about in great detail

I drove the car all the way out in Long Island for a car show Sunday. The needle stayed at the 20mph mark and no issues.

[jgc61sr2002]

Paul - A job well done.:D Congrats.

[GreekGod]

Now I would like to speak with someone as to why the OEM pump has a plate on the vanes and the new one does not.......as high speed water turbulence will errode metals over time.....which may be why the OEM pumps have the plate on the vanes in the first place??

Simple answers without a bunch of "smoke" would be much appreciated.....IF anyone actually knows??

Marauderjack

I think you are on to something! That plate is a shield!

I predict that cavitating pump will eat-up the aluminum like a pack of starving rats, and eventually cause an internal leak with resultant over-heating and engine failure.

Ford, with all their engineers, computers, 100 million + V8 engines built, Trans-Am, and NASCAR experience, knows how to design a water pump.

If this "new" design pump actually does what they say it does, there may be a compromise made, with resultant problems.

[Blackened300a]

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d12/blackened300a/waterpump.jpg
Ill put the sheild theory to the test, After 1500 miles of my hard driving, Ill pull the pump out and compare it with this pic.
If there is any signs of wear or anything abnormal on the engine, Ill take a close up pic of the wear, post it and make it public knowledge that this mod is harmful. If all is well and there is no sign of anything abnormal, then consider it the new mod of the year.

Fair enough?

[Glenn]

I will put up $20 toward a before and after dyno of this very interesting mod. Who will join me to resolve this question?? Whoever does the dyno and posts the results, I will send a check for $20.
Glenn

[Blackened300a]

This was posted about a EMP/Stewart performance pump for BMW

The engineers at EMP/Stewart components have developed an aftermarket water pump that improves water flow both in volume and output pressure. EMP/Stewart has incorporated some major design changes that should all but eliminate water pump failure. Those changes include, an upgraded stainless steel impeller that replaces the factory plastic unit. Larger bearings and impeller shaft for extended bearing life, along with a larger, higher quality seal to reduce seal failure. The redesigned impeller housing reduces the chances of water cavitation by properly organizing and channeling water flow into the pump impeller.

What is Cavitation???

Cavitation is similar to spinning your tires during hard acceleration, only it's occurring in water. This is a common occurrence with high-powered speedboats, when the propeller is rotating so fast that the forward motion of the boat is not allowing the propeller blade to grab a clean supply of still water. In the case of water pump the water supply surrounding the impeller begins to spin at the same speed as the impeller blades. This creates a pocket or layer of rotating water around the water pump impeller. When this occurs the impeller has lost traction within the in coming water supply. If this continues the water begins to overheat and boil, resulting in a failure of the factory plastic impeller.

Cavitation is more common to occurrence at higher R.P.M. This is why spinning the water pump faster does not always increase water flow! Water flow and volume are more a result of impeller design than R.P.M. This is why the EMP/Stewart water pump increases water flow by as much as 15%.

BMP design: High Performance Water Pump (http://www.bmpdesign.com/product-exec/product_id/4231/category_id/48/)

[Marauderjack]

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d12/blackened300a/waterpump.jpg
Ill put the sheild theory to the test, After 1500 miles of my hard driving, Ill pull the pump out and compare it with this pic.
If there is any signs of wear or anything abnormal on the engine, Ill take a close up pic of the wear, post it and make it public knowledge that this mod is harmful. If all is well and there is no sign of anything abnormal, then consider it the new mod of the year.

Fair enough?

Very generous offer "Blackened300a"......

There may be absolutely no problem with this design but we all seem to wonder and you are our test bench....many thanks!!!:beer:

BTW....I went to Rock Auto and found WP prices from $23.79 to $48.79 and a couple with core charges?? Wonder what the OEM pump goes for??:confused:

Marauderjack:burnout:

[magindat]

What a great write up. I gotta say, pictures make it that much better. I can believe that the pump is better than OEM but still cannot understand HOW it can save the Engine over 10 HP.

Also, do you think that the lock washers would still need to be used with stock pulleys?

Maginthat, I never knew that you had the same passion for water pumps as you do for stereos/ speakers. LOL

Ha Ha - It's not a passion! I HATED that job!

[magindat]

Now I would like to speak with someone as to why the OEM pump has a plate on the vanes and the new one does not.......as high speed water turbulence will errode metals over time.....which may be why the OEM pumps have the plate on the vanes in the first place??:confused:


You know, I was trying to get a grasp on the same thing. I do know this much: given the same depth in the housing, the vanes can be TALLER without the plate on top. This means more vane area. Again, more vane area with less pitch means more flow, but less pressure.

For example, in my pump experience: I can run a 1HP rated (thicker) impeller with a 1/2 HP motor if I have little resistance to flow like little rise or short pipe runs. Resistance to flow causes pressure and pressure takes HP to overcome. Of course I get the same FLOW due to same RPM, but save massive amounts of electricity with a 1/2 HP motor FLOWING what a 1HP motor would normally FLOW. As soon as the FLOW RESISTANCE increases, though, that 1/2 HP motor is gonna wear out quick.

Secondly, by sheer looks alone, it's clear the new impeller is more hydrodynamic than the old. it also appears the new impeller is formed from a solid casting or forging and the stock is made in pieces welded together.

It looks to me (from the pics) that the stock is a flat plate with holes. Vanes are stood on it and plug welded in place, then the plate is NECESSARY cuz a plug weld won't hold those vanes under the circumferential loads. So the plate with holes goes on and is plug welded atop the vanes. Cheap to manufacture.

So right now, 'till more info comes to light, I think the stock is the way it is from a cost of manufacturing standpoint and the new is simply more like an impeller looks like on a higher quality pump (again I have about 6 years working experience in such differences).

Now for attitude... I was cranky yesterday. Worked all weekend. Due to my time in water and pumps the performance of the new impeller appeared blatantly obvious to me and I was a bit annoyed it wasn't so obvious to everyone else. Duh, everyone else does not have the same experience.

That said, it's obvious to a former 'pump guy' the new one is better...

As for boats, pump impellers work different than boat propellers. A boat prop is a screw being driven through the water. An impeller 'slings' the liquid by centrifugal force from the center to the outside just like a centrifugal blower 'slings' air. In all impeller designs, a volute is required to collect that slung liquid (water/air/whatever) and direct it.

In summary, I think the better hydrodynamic shape, the increased area and an better engineered vane pitch cause the efficiency of the new water pump. I still don't buy 10 PEAK HP, but I WOULD believe 10 HP SOMEWHERE in the RPM band where the new pump is at peak efficiency compared to stock. I think that 'somewhere' is in the RPM range we DRIVE in, hence the butt-o-meter readings.

[DEFYANT]

Interesting Paul.

But save your time and money on the check up. I doubt they would offer this product tat could cause potential engine failure.

Anytime we post up a new product with HP claims, you'll always have those who demand dyno results. Then the argument is over the dyno, the air temp, the guy who ran the thing.....

Dont sweat it man, thanks for diggin up the new pump. I like it. The electric pump is nice for freeing up HP and cooling the motor when it is not running. But that price is just too much. This is a great alternative!

[magindat]

Ford, with all their engineers, computers, 100 million + V8 engines built, Trans-Am, and NASCAR experience, knows how to design a water pump.
Guess you missed this part:
<table style="border-collapse: collapse;" id="table58" border="0" cellpadding="0" width="550"><tbody><tr><td style="padding-right: 12px; padding-left: 5px; padding-top: 5px;" height="32" valign="top" width="257"> NASCAR </td> <td style="padding-right: 12px; padding-left: 5px; padding-top: 5px;" height="32" valign="top" width="207">
</td> <td rowspan="2" width="32"> </td> </tr> <tr> <td style="padding-right: 12px; padding-left: 5px; padding-top: 5px;" colspan="2" height="68" valign="top"> The following NASCAR teams and drivers will be utilizing EMP Stewart Components Pro Series Water Pumps/Cooling Products on their race cars and trucks this season.

Ryan Newman
...
Developed with engine builder Mike Ege, the EMP Stewart Components Pro Series Dodge Water Pump also propelled Newman’s Penske Jasper Engine powered Dodge to six NASCAR Busch Series wins in nine 2005 starts.

Kurt Busch
...
Busch’s Dodge Charger will be powered by a Penske Jasper Racing Engine cooled by the EMP Stewart Components/MERE Dodge Pro Series Water Pump.

Mark Martin
...
Martin’s Roush Racing Ford Fusion stock car will be powered by a Yates/Roush Racing Engine this season which features and EMP Stewart Components/Yates Ford Pro Series Water Pump.

Matt Kenseth
...
This season, both Kenseth’s NASCAR Nextel Cup and Busch Series Roush Racing Fords will be powered by Yates/Roush Racing Engines that are cooled by the EMP Stewart Components/Yates Ford Pro Series Water Pump.

Greg Biffle
...
Biffle will again return to the seat of the No. 16 Roush Racing Ford Cup entry this season propelled by a Roush-Yates engine employing the EMP Stewart Components/Yates Ford Pro Series Water Pump.

Kenny Schrader
...
This year, Schrader’s Ford Fusion will be powered by a Yates/Roush engine featuring the EMP Stewart Components/Yates Pro Series Water Pump.

Jamie McMurray
...
McMurray will also have the benefit of a Yates/Roush Racing Engine cooled by an EMP Stewart Components/Yates Ford Pro Series Water Pump this season.

Kevin Harvick
...
Harvick will also drive the RCR powered, EMP Stewart Components cooled No. 21 entry in the NASCAR Busch Series on a select event basis this season.
...
That car also shares RCR engines and EMP Stewart Components cooling.

Jeff Burton
...
Burton’s No. 31 Chevy Cup car, and the RCR No. 21 Busch Series car which he will drive on a select event basis this season, will be powered by Richard Childress Racing Engines cooled by the EMP Stewart Components GM Pro Series Water Pump.

Elliott Sadler
...
Sadler’s Robert Yates Racing Ford Fusion will be powered by a Robert Yates Racing engine feature an EMP Stewart Components/Yates Ford Pro Series Water Pump.

Dale Jarrett
...
This season, he will return in the No. 88 Ford Fusion with power from a Robert Yates Racing Engines cooled by an EMP Stewart Components/Yates Ford Pro Series Water Pump.

Carl Edwards
...
Edwards will again compete in both the Cup and Busch division this season behind the wheel of a pair of potent Roush Racing Fords powered by Yates/Roush Racing engines cooled by EMP Stewart Components/Yates Ford Pro Series Water Pumps.

Clint Bowyer
...
Both Bowyer’s No. 07 Chevy Cup car and his No. 2 Bowtie Busch machine will be powered by Richard Childress Racing engines this season cooled by an EMP Stewart Components GM Pro Series Water Pump.

Travis Kvapil
...
Kvapil, 29, will steer the No. 32 for PPI Motorsports this season. His car will feature a Richard Childress Racing powerplant cooled by an EMP Stewart Components GM Pro Series Water Pump this season.

Joe Nemechek
...
A Carl Wegner engine that features the new EMP Stewart Components GM Pro Series Water Pump will power Nemechek’s Busch Series No. 87 Chevy this year.

John Andretti
...
Andretti’s ppc Racing entry will be powered by a Robert Yates Racing engine cooled by an EMP Stewart Components/Yates Ford Pro Series Water Pump.

Kenny Wallace
...
Wallace’s ppc Racing Ford will have the benefit of a Robert Yates Racing engine cooled by an EMP Stewart Components/Yates Ford Pro Series Water Pump this season.

David Green
...
Those engines are cooled by an EMP Stewart Component/Yates Ford Pro Series Water Pump.

Tim Sauter
...
Sauter’s McGill Motorsports Chevy will feature Carl Wegner power with cooling from an EMP Stewart Components GM Pro Series Water Pump.

Jon Wood
...
Wood’s ST Motorsports Fords will be powered by a Robert Yates Racing engine cooled by an EMP Stewart Components/Yates Ford Pro Series Water Pump this season.

Jay Sauter
...
His 2006 Chevrolet Monte Carlo Busch Series car will feature a Carl Wegner racing engine cooled by an EMP Stewart Components GM Pro Series Water Pump.

Todd Kluever
...
Kluever’s No. 06 Roush Racing Busch Series entry this season will be powered by a Yates/Roush Racing engine cooled by an EMP Stewart Components/Yates Ford Pro Series Water Pump.

Green Light Racing
...
Both Green Light Racing Chevy trucks will feature Carl Wegner power and the EMP Stewart Components GM Pro Series Water Pump in 2006.

Terry Cook
...
In 2006, Cook will return to the No. 10 Power Stroke Diesel by International Ford with power from Robert Yates Racing Engines and cooling from the EMP Stewart Components/Yates Ford Pro Series Water Pump.

Ron Hornaday, Jr.
...
33 NASCAR Busch Series car this season, will benefit from Richard Childress Racing Engines horsepower cooled by an EMP Stewart Components GM Pro Series Water Pump.

Erik Darnell
...
The Truck Series rookie of the year candidate will have the benefit of Yates/Roush Racing Engines power and cooling from the EMP Stewart Components/Yates Ford Pro Series Water Pump.

NASCAR teams/drivers featuring sponsorship from EMP - the parent company of EMP Stewart Components - in 2006.
Brian Vickers
...
Vickers will drive the No. 25 Chevy Monte Carlo Hendrick Motorsports Chevy in the Cup Series this season that again will feature associate sponsorship from EMP.

</td></tr></tbody></table>
(http://www.stewartcomponents.com/cgi-script/SCArticles/articles/000000/000010.htm)

[magindat]

If this "new" design pump actually does what they say it does, there may be a compromise made, with resultant problems.

And this part....

2006 NASCAR Season Numbers A "Career" Achievement For EMP Stewart Components (http://www.stewartcomponents.com/cgi-script/SCArticles/articles/000000/000013.htm)
11-27-2006 - Escanaba, MI
Any NASCAR driver posting career totals of 45 wins, 44 pole positions and 224 Top-5 finishes would be recognized as a superstar by every measure in the sport.
http://www.stewartcomponents.com/cgi-script/SCArticles/uploads/13/Stewart_Logo_250Jpeg.jpg Now, consider posting those numbers in a single season.
That’s exactly what EMP Stewart Components cooled vehicles did in 2006 establishing those marks in the 96 races contested in NASCAR’s top three divisions – Nextel Cup, Busch and Craftsman Truck.
“I knew we had a good NASCAR season, but I had no idea it was that good,” said Jeff Canull, General Manager of EMP Stewart Components. “It’s a real credit to our engineering staff and the engine builders we work with to create water pumps that can perform at the highest levels of stock car racing in this country, NASCAR. We couldn’t be prouder of the accomplishments of our products this season and the people who all worked together to make it happen.”
more.. (http://www.stewartcomponents.com/cgi-script/SCArticles/articles/000000/000013.htm)

Biffle, Kenseth, Martin Give EMP Stewart Components Sweep Of Final Homestead-Miami NASCAR Weekend Events (http://www.stewartcomponents.com/cgi-script/SCArticles/articles/000000/000012.htm)
11-20-2006 - Escanaba, MI
Jimmie Johnson, Kevin Harvick and Todd Bodine all made their way to Victory Lane to accept championship trophies while EMP Stewart Components cooled vehicles visited the same destination http://www.stewartcomponents.com/cgi-script/SCArticles/uploads/12/Stewart_Logo_250Jpeg.jpg winning all three events to highlight the final NASCAR weekend of the 2006 season at Homestead Miami Speedway.
Johnson grabbed the Nextel Cup title Sunday while Harvick – and his EMP Stewart Components cooled Richard Childress Racing Chevy – scripted a major burnout on the HMS front straight Saturday to celebrate the Busch Series crown he’d already locked up at Charlotte a month ago. On Friday, Bodine won his first-ever major NASCAR title leading a sweep of the first six spots by Toyota in the Craftsman Truck Series standings.
Right in the middle of all the action was EMP Stewart Components. In addition to the NBS championship celebration with Harvick and his RCR Bowtie crowd, the company saw its Ford Pro Series Water Pump dominate the weekend events with Greg Biffle, Matt Kenseth and Mark Martin all powering to victories.
more.. (http://www.stewartcomponents.com/cgi-script/SCArticles/articles/000000/000012.htm)

Harvick Dominates Phoenix Cup Race, Johnson Inches Closer To Division Title (http://www.stewartcomponents.com/cgi-script/SCArticles/articles/000000/000011.htm)
11-13-2006 - Escanaba, MI
http://www.stewartcomponents.com/cgi-script/SCArticles/uploads/11/Head%20Shot%20300.jpg While the rest of the Top-10 in the NASCAR Nextel Cup Chase for the Championship were running for points at Phoenix International Raceway Sunday, Kevin Harvick was racing for the win in the Checker Auto Parts 500.
The strategy worked to perfection as Harvick put a smack down on the rest of the 43-car field leading a whopping 252 of 312 laps en route to his 10th career Nextel Cup victory.
“We’re just having fun and racing as hard as we can and doing the things that we've done week in and week out all year,’ said Harvick of his Richard Childress Racing team. “It's just go out and go as fast as you can. How it (the championship) falls is how it falls and that's just kind of how we've looked at it since the season started.”
Everything fell right for Harvick Sunday as he dominated the next-to-last event of the 2006 Cup season. Even a late-race red flag couldn’t slow Harvick’s dash for Phoenix cash as he held off Jimmie Johnson to win by 0.250 seconds.
more.. (http://www.stewartcomponents.com/cgi-script/SCArticles/articles/000000/000011.htm)

Stewart Ropes Cup Field - Bowyer, Harvick Stomp Truck, Busch Rivals At Texas (http://www.stewartcomponents.com/cgi-script/SCArticles/articles/000000/000010.htm)
11-06-2006 - Escanaba, MI
Tony Stewart continued his late-season mastery of the NASCAR Nextel Cup division while EMP Stewart Components drivers Kevin Harvick and Clint Boyer scored NASCAR Busch and Truck Series victories to highlight an abbreviated racing weekend.
With all but the final event of the National Hot Rod Association drag racers left on the season http://www.stewartcomponents.com/cgi-script/SCArticles/uploads/10/Vickers%20Car%20Portrait%20300 .jpg calendar, the NASCAR crowd had the spotlight all to itself with a big tripleheader weekend at Texas Motor Speedway.
Brian Vickers and his Hendrick Motorsports Chevy (right) opened the weekend with a bang rolling to a lap of 196.235 miles per hour in qualifying for the Dickies 500 Cup event Friday at TMS. Vickers, who sports associate sponsorship from Stewart Components parent company EMP, blistered the Texas oval to win his first pole of the season posting the fastest qualifying lap of the entire 2006 Nextel Cup campaign in the process.
On Sunday, however, it was all Stewart as the Joe Gibbs Racing driver rolled to his second-straight win and his third in eight NASCAR Nextel Cup ‘Chase to the Championship’ events.
more.. (http://www.stewartcomponents.com/cgi-script/SCArticles/articles/000000/000010.htm)

[magindat]

Interesting Paul.

But save your time and money on the check up. I doubt they would offer this product tat could cause potential engine failure.

Anytime we post up a new product with HP claims, you'll always have those who demand dyno results. Then the argument is over the dyno, the air temp, the guy who ran the thing.....

Dont sweat it man, thanks for diggin up the new pump. I like it. The electric pump is nice for freeing up HP and cooling the motor when it is not running. But that price is just too much. This is a great alternative!

Well said, Charlie.

[GreekGod]

... :confused: I didn't realize all those "good ol' boys" used Stewart coolant pumps in their Stock cars.

Whether starting up their Stock car on a -20 degree January morning at Ste. St. Marie, Michigan, or driving along the Miami Florida beach in August, or through the Eisenhower tunnel at its 11,000 foot altitude, those Stewart pumps can maintain and survive, whether cruising at 6,000 rpm, or shifting at 8,000, even 9,000.

Yep, doesn't matter if you're going to Piggly-Wiggly, or climbing the dunes at Silver Beach, you can depend on Stewart pumps.

Line up for the free lunch! ;)

[Raudermaster]

Damn Rich, did you just finish typing all that just now? What time did you start, last night?:lol:

[Blackened300a]

Interesting Paul.

But save your time and money on the check up. I doubt they would offer this product tat could cause potential engine failure. !

No money involved on this and Since Im the first with this mod, I may as well set everyones mind at ease and show some long term effects.

I have to agree, I dont think a company would want the backlash of having a product that could overheat and destroy a engine.

[bigmerc'03]

so which 1 do i get for my marauder?

EMP-STE50046S for 4V Engines

EMP-STE50046L for 2V Engines

[Blackened300a]

so which 1 do i get for my marauder?

EMP-STE50046S for 4V Engines
EMP-STE50046L for 2V Engines

Marauders are 4 valves per cylinder so EMP-STE50046S is the one for you.
Our friends with Crown vics and Grand Marquis will use the 2V number.

[magindat]

Damn Rich, did you just finish typing all that just now? What time did you start, last night?:lol:

Copy and paste, baby. Copy and paste.

[juno]

For what it's worth, our stock water pumps are inefficient and can cavitate at high RPM's. but they are cheap and reliable for around town and typical Highway speeds.
I think the meziere is the way to go. Even with the extra turbo heat my temps were rock solid at Sebring, and the motor cools down nicely when idling and then running the pump for a few minutes.
The meziere flows more then the stocker, significantly more at idle, so when the motor is hot and the fan is on high you can idle the motor and get lots of flow. My heat soak is less with the turbo and the meziere then it was NA and stock pump.

This pump sounds like a great alternative if you do not need to remove heat soak at idle. Who knows, it may be more efficient then our stockers at idle also.

[Shora]

Also, do you think that the lock washers would still need to be used with stock pulleys?

So what do you think about this missed question?

[Blackened300a]

Originally Posted by Shora http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/images/bgold/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?p=493220#post49 3220)
What a great write up. I gotta say, pictures make it that much better.
Thanks, I always believed that a picture is worth a thousand words
I can believe that the pump is better than OEM but still cannot understand HOW it can save the Engine over 10 HP.
I based this on what a electric water pump with give you back when replacing the mechanical. Only a dyno can tell real world results
Also, do you think that the lock washers would still need to be used with stock pulleys?
The bolts came through and hit the pump housing and actually stopped the pulley from turning, If the stock pulley is a little thicker then the Steeda U/D set then no washers would be needed.




So what do you think about this missed question?

I answered you when I quoted your post :beer:

[superford3]

if someone is buying a waterpump for a hp gain your going about this modding thing all wrong and need to re evaluate ,it looks like a nice pump and may consider this one when i need it

[Blackened300a]

if someone is buying a waterpump for a hp gain your going about this modding thing all wrong and need to re evaluate ,it looks like a nice pump and may consider this one when i need it

Every HP counts. I didnt need mufflers, air filter, tune, 4.10s, or even a convertor, My marauder would have been perfectly fine as a stock mid 15 second sedan. But not for me, Thats why I went for the water pump.

[Shora]

I answered you when I quoted your post :beer:

Opps!!!

Thanks again.:beer:

[bigmerc'03]

any updates on this pump?

[Raudermaster]

I'm assuming it's still holding up. He would have posted if it's been giving him trouble by now.

[Blackened300a]

any updates on this pump?

I put on over 500 miles last weekend going to Carlise and was stuck in traffic the entire time on my way home. The temp gauge never moved and zero issues so far. Still a great mod.

[BK_GrandMarquis]

EMP-STE50046S for 4V Engines

EMP-STE50046L for 2V Engines


For you 2V guys, be careful which one you order. I found out the hard way I need the short one today. :mad:

http://www.stewartcomponents.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=FMUSTHPR

Ford Mustang 4.6 High Performance Water Pump, 1996 - Mid 2001 (http://www.stewartcomponents.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=STE50046L&Category_Code=FMUSTHPR)
Code:STE50046L

Ford Mustang 4.6 High Performance Water Pump, Mid 2001 - 2004 (http://www.stewartcomponents.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=STE50046S&Category_Code=FMUSTHPR)
Code:STE50046S
I have a 2001 so I guess it was a toss up between the two.

I attached a shot of the OEM short and the EMP long.

[Marauderjack]

I got mine last week but waiting to install next oil change when I do the blower and new GatorBack belt!!:beer::beer:

Marauderjack:burnout:

[Marauder386]

Thanks for the part numbers!!:beer:

Anyone know the part number for the 180* thermostat.....I had a NAPA number but can't find it!!:argue:

I'm going to change the coolant, thermostat and WP at the same time!!;)

Marauderjack:burnout:


NAPA # THM 109 @ 8.99 each...

:cool:

[Raudermaster]

I have one lying around Mark that I'll sell you cheap, Ford OEM one.

[BK_GrandMarquis]

Here are some pics of the EMP water pump and the OEM on a 2V 4.6.
http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/542965/fullsize/pict3074.jpg
http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/542966/fullsize/pict3077.jpg
http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/542967/fullsize/pict3079.jpg
http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/542968/fullsize/pict3082.jpg
http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/542969/fullsize/pict3085.jpg
http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/542970/fullsize/pict3086.jpg

[bigal614]

I got my EMP in and will be putting it on the new motor B4 it goes in!

[magindat]

My car idles 10 degrees cooler. Best money I've spent on this car so far. Should be a top of the list mod.

[DOOM]

Has anyone here tried using this pump on a super charged marauder? l plan on using this with my trilogy.

[Hotrauder]

Magindat is S/C. Dennis...his post sold me me a long time ago. a low cost mod for better cooling performance in my book.
Dennis

[red]

Blackened300a, wanted to say thanks for this great install guide. Any chance you'd be interested in converting it into a wiki article (https://www.mymarauder.com/wiki/index.php?title=Water_Pump_Ins tall)?

[Blackened300a]

Blackened300a, wanted to say thanks for this great install guide. Any chance you'd be interested in converting it into a wiki article (https://www.mymarauder.com/wiki/index.php?title=Water_Pump_Ins tall)?


I never did a wiki article before. Feel free to post it up.

[red]

I never did a wiki article before. Feel free to post it up.
It's relatively easy and has similar formatting to this forum. I'm looking for helpers, as there's so much to document and so little time.

[Canucksmarauder]

Any pics of the pump removed as promissed;) Would love to see the thing out of the car for before and after pics. Going to order one this weekend as my Father never changed the stock pump after 200,000KM of Highway use!

P

[Local Boy]

Look up ^^^^^ Post #67...

ALOHA

[Canucksmarauder]

I've decided to change mine out ass $165 shipped is a great deal. I plan on driving the car till I order the new motor. Original pump has 130,000miles:eek:

I'll snap a couple of pics of the old pump,
P

[Canucksmarauder]

Changed my water pump and it only took me about an hour! Old pump had a gasket that was failing by the look of it.

Could not get the thermostat out as I can't get under the car:rolleyes: Guess the shop will have to do that.

Easy install and a great upgrade,
P

[Blackened300a]

Could not get the thermostat out as I can't get under the car:rolleyes: Guess the shop will have to do that.

Easy install and a great upgrade,
P

With the fan shroud removed there is no reason to go under the car to replace the thermostat. Just with the coolant emptied you can remove the 2 bolts out of the housing and then just pop in the new one re-using the old O-ring and you are done.

[Canucksmarauder]

WIsh it was that easy. The top of the two bolts on the thremostat housing are very rusty. I'm appling WD40 everyday and will try to remove it later this week. I'm sure it's the original unit from the factory:eek:

P

[Blackened300a]

WIsh it was that easy. The top of the two bolts on the thremostat housing are very rusty. I'm appling WD40 everyday and will try to remove it later this week. I'm sure it's the original unit from the factory:eek:

P

Good luck with that. I have changed 2 thermostats and they both needed to have the bolts muscled out

[RUSTY]

BP Blaster is far better than WD40, and I normaly use WD40 on everything

[Jolly Roger]

Just don't forget to reassemble with anti-seize.;)

[Marauder386]

Old and dusty bump from the past ...


Whats everyones status with the water pump ?


:cool4:

[SC Cheesehead]

Old and dusty bump from the past ...


Whats everyones status with the water pump ?


:cool4:

+1

I've not done this mod yet, but have been wondering what feedback is from those who've had the W/P on for a while?

Is it worth it, and how are they holding up?

[musclemerc]

This is definately my next mod. Thanks for the write up!!! :bows:

[Marauderjack]

I have about 50K miles on mine and quite honestly cannot tell ANY difference from the OEM that it replaced at 147K miles!!!:shake:

If it fails I will go back to a Ford pump since I see no real advantage in the EMP pump!!:rolleyes:

[GreekGod]

I have about 50K miles on mine and quite honestly cannot tell ANY difference from the OEM that it replaced at 147K miles!!!:shake:

If it fails I will go back to a Ford pump since I see no real advantage in the EMP pump!!:rolleyes:

This makes sense, as Ford has made well over 100 million V8 engines, one would suppose they know (by now) how to make a water pump.

If there was a new miracle pump design, Ford, GM, Chrysler, BMW, Volkswagen, Honda, Toyota, Subaru, et cetera, would have come up with it now, and everyone would be paying royalties to use the design. I have spoken.

[RR|Suki]

so this pump... $160+.... OEM one off rockauto.com $40.... hmmmm:shake:

[GreekGod]

so this pump... $160+.... OEM one off rockauto.com $40.... hmmmm:shake:

I suspect they are like $20/each sparkplugs...oh, do you have any Grey Poupon?

[Blackened300a]

Almost 2 years since the install and zero problems.

[Jolly Roger]

Installed my pump last summer.
Registered low on the buttt-o-meter, high on the peice-o-mind meter:)

[babbage]

It's clear to me by the provided pictures (Thank you) that the new impeller is far superior in design and efficiency. If the new one cavitates, the old one is a "foam machine". I, for one, am extremely pleased to see a mechanical alternative to an electric water pump. I feel an electric pump taxes further an electrical system (in Marauders) that's already taxed enough (especially since I like my stereo).

I've replaced, serviced, ordered, and specified a few pump impellers (non-automotive) and I can see by comparison the new one is MUCH better in design and based on comparisons of past would be FAR more efficient.

Thanx again for sharing your discovery with us.


... :confused: I didn't realize all those "good ol' boys" used Stewart coolant pumps in their Stock cars.

Whether starting up their Stock car on a -20 degree January morning at Ste. St. Marie, Michigan, or driving along the Miami Florida beach in August, or through the Eisenhower tunnel at its 11,000 foot altitude, those Stewart pumps can maintain and survive, whether cruising at 6,000 rpm, or shifting at 8,000, even 9,000.

Yep, doesn't matter if you're going to Piggly-Wiggly, or climbing the dunes at Silver Beach, you can depend on Stewart pumps.

Line up for the free lunch! ;)


My car idles 10 degrees cooler. Best money I've spent on this car so far. Should be a top of the list mod.


I read the skepticism in these posts, but look at the pics and notice:

There is more swept area on each vane.
The pump uses the block itself as the volute.
There is less mass (apparently) to the impeller.
There is a flow cone from the center of the impeller.

So, if there is more area with less of an angle, there will be the same flow, but with less pressure but requiring less torque. If there's less mass, then, less torque is required. If the block is used as the volute, there is more room for impeller blade area. If there is a flow cone then the impeller better directs the 'suction' through the stator 'area' to the vanes, thus requiring less torque to force the mass of water that has no direction (stock). Torque over time is HP.

I'll believe it. And I'll bet it works even more efficiently (robbing less hp) if one has the 'cooling mod' as that mod requires less WP pressure for the same flow through the engine.

I don't think you'll see the power gains on the dyno as peak HP. I think there would be more available down low and off idle with this mod. I think if you dynoed before and after the slight gains would be in the lower to mid portion of the curve. Right where we drive and right where the SOTP meter is calibrated.

This one is on my list. Please let us know how it is for you over time!


I just ordered one. I had one in my old crown vic and got much more consistent temps (SGII) Temps would never get over 190, even in torture traffic in August

The naysayers in this big thread still don't get it, I find that funny! :burnout:

[Blackened300a]

Nothing ventured, nothing gained. I still have yet to see some dyno numbers on this. Ill have a few more mods installed by the time I hit the dyno again so I cant give it a true test. I just know its very reliable and no issues in the 2 years since the install.

[Taemian]

Everyone still happy with these pumps? Do I bother to put a new on on mine while the engine is out for the rebuild?

[RF Overlord]

That's a good question, Taemian.

Zack always said the stock Cobra pump was a better choice (increased flow and reasonable price) and I guess the Meziere electric pumps have fallen out of favour. Sooner or later I'll prolly need a water pump in Phoebe or The Blackbird and it would be nice to have choices.

[Jolly Roger]

3 years and no problem from my EMP.

[fastblackmerc]

That's a good question, Taemian.

Zack always said the stock Cobra pump was a better choice (increased flow and reasonable price) and I guess the Meziere electric pumps have fallen out of favour. Sooner or later I'll prolly need a water pump in Phoebe or The Blackbird and it would be nice to have choices.

I installed the Meziere electric pump months ago.... no problems.

[Blackened300a]

Restored the pics and its been 4 years with zero issues.

[Marauderjack]

I've had mine about 4 years with no problems but I cannot see where it made any difference over the stock pump!!

Save your money for other things!!

[Dr Caleb]

I've had mine about 4 years with no problems but I cannot see where it made any difference over the stock pump!!

Save your money for other things!!

Same here, I put one in a couple years ago, I don't see any difference in performance.

But I track my car often and it's also given me no problems. Just the difference in the two when I was replacing it does however give me a great deal of confidence that I will never have a problem with it.

Definitley a "peace of mind" upgrade.

[GreekGod]

I can't see how an electric water pump is more reliable than a belt driven pump.

[J.bo]

Does anyone know it the Ford v10 pump is any better? I read somewhere that the cobra vic by Roush had the v10 water pump. It didn't really say why they went with that pump over the stocker.

[Da Dark Jedi]

That's a good question, Taemian.

Zack always said the stock Cobra pump was a better choice (increased flow and reasonable price) and I guess the Meziere electric pumps have fallen out of favour. Sooner or later I'll prolly need a water pump in Phoebe or The Blackbird and it would be nice to have choices.


Did Zack mention what year Cobra pump he's talking about???

[babbage]

I read the skepticism in these posts, but look at the pics and notice:

There is more swept area on each vane.
The pump uses the block itself as the volute.
There is less mass (apparently) to the impeller.
There is a flow cone from the center of the impeller.

So, if there is more area with less of an angle, there will be the same flow, but with less pressure but requiring less torque. If there's less mass, then, less torque is required. If the block is used as the volute, there is more room for impeller blade area. If there is a flow cone then the impeller better directs the 'suction' through the stator 'area' to the vanes, thus requiring less torque to force the mass of water that has no direction (stock). Torque over time is HP.

I'll believe it. And I'll bet it works even more efficiently (robbing less hp) if one has the 'cooling mod' as that mod requires less WP pressure for the same flow through the engine.

I don't think you'll see the power gains on the dyno as peak HP. I think there would be more available down low and off idle with this mod. I think if you dynoed before and after the slight gains would be in the lower to mid portion of the curve. Right where we drive and right where the SOTP meter is calibrated.

This one is on my list. Please let us know how it is for you over time!

This is a quality pump. Ive had both 2v and 4v versions.

[DOOM]

I can't see how an electric water pump is more reliable than a belt driven pump.

Thats because it isnt!

I have had both and the stewart is the better of the 2!

[WPG_Merc]

I did the same mod last may & what a diffrece in pick up.:burnout:
I would Highly recomend it too.
also I used Royal Purple Ice for the rad.


:beer: