All the hippies that love to drive the Prius....

[wchain]

GUess what?

<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" height="15"> <tbody><tr> <td width="100%">http://clubs.ccsu.edu/Recorder/main/spacer.gif</td> </tr> </tbody></table> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td>March 7, 2007</td> <td align="right" height="23">http://clubs.ccsu.edu/Recorder/main/spacer.gif</td> </tr> </tbody></table> Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage
By Chris Demorro
Staff Writer

The Toyota Prius has become the flagship car for those in our society so environmentally conscious that they are willing to spend a premium to show the world how much they care. Unfortunately for them, their ultimate ‘green car’ is the source of some of the worst pollution in North America; it takes more combined energy per Prius to produce than a Hummer. Before we delve into the seedy underworld of hybrids, you must first understand how a hybrid works. For this, we will use the most popular hybrid on the market, the Toyota Prius.
The Prius is powered by not one, but two engines: a standard 76 horsepower, 1.5-liter gas engine found in most cars today and a battery- powered engine that deals out 67 horsepower and a whooping 295ft/lbs of torque, below 2000 revolutions per minute. Essentially, the Toyota Synergy Drive system, as it is so called, propels the car from a dead stop to up to 30mph. This is where the largest percent of gas is consumed. As any physics major can tell you, it takes more energy to get an object moving than to keep it moving. The battery is recharged through the braking system, as well as when the gasoline engine takes over anywhere north of 30mph. It seems like a great energy efficient and environmentally sound car, right?
You would be right if you went by the old government EPA estimates, which netted the Prius an incredible 60 miles per gallon in the city and 51 miles per gallon on the highway. Unfortunately for Toyota, the government realized how unrealistic their EPA tests were, which consisted of highway speeds limited to 55mph and acceleration of only 3.3 mph per second. The new tests which affect all 2008 models give a much more realistic rating with highway speeds of 80mph and acceleration of 8mph per second. This has dropped the Prius’s EPA down by 25 percent to an average of 45mpg. This now puts the Toyota within spitting distance of cars like the Chevy Aveo, which costs less then half what the Prius costs.
However, if that was the only issue with the Prius, I wouldn’t be writing this article. It gets much worse.
Building a Toyota Prius causes more environmental damage than a Hummer that is on the road for three times longer than a Prius. As already noted, the Prius is partly driven by a battery which contains nickel. The nickel is mined and smelted at a plant in Sudbury, Ontario. This plant has caused so much environmental damage to the surrounding environment that NASA has used the ‘dead zone’ around the plant to test moon rovers. The area around the plant is devoid of any life for miles.
The plant is the source of all the nickel found in a Prius’ battery and Toyota purchases 1,000 tons annually. Dubbed the Superstack, the plague-factory has spread sulfur dioxide across northern Ontario, becoming every environmentalist’s nightmare.
“The acid rain around Sudbury was so bad it destroyed all the plants and the soil slid down off the hillside,” said Canadian Greenpeace energy-coordinator David Martin during an interview with Mail, a British-based newspaper.
All of this would be bad enough in and of itself; however, the journey to make a hybrid doesn’t end there. The nickel produced by this disastrous plant is shipped via massive container ship to the largest nickel refinery in Europe. From there, the nickel hops over to China to produce ‘nickel foam.’ From there, it goes to Japan. Finally, the completed batteries are shipped to the United States, finalizing the around-the-world trip required to produce a single Prius battery. Are these not sounding less and less like environmentally sound cars and more like a farce?
Wait, I haven’t even got to the best part yet.
When you pool together all the combined energy it takes to drive and build a Toyota Prius, the flagship car of energy fanatics, it takes almost 50 percent more energy than a Hummer - the Prius’s arch nemesis.
Through a study by CNW Marketing called “Dust to Dust,” the total combined energy is taken from all the electrical, fuel, transportation, materials (metal, plastic, etc) and hundreds of other factors over the expected lifetime of a vehicle. The Prius costs an average of $3.25 per mile driven over a lifetime of 100,000 miles - the expected lifespan of the Hybrid.
The Hummer, on the other hand, costs a more fiscal $1.95 per mile to put on the road over an expected lifetime of 300,000 miles. That means the Hummer will last three times longer than a Prius and use less combined energy doing it.
So, if you are really an environmentalist - ditch the Prius. Instead, buy one of the most economical cars available - a Toyota Scion xB. The Scion only costs a paltry $0.48 per mile to put on the road. If you are still obsessed over gas mileage - buy a Chevy Aveo and fix that lead foot.
One last fun fact for you: it takes five years to offset the premium price of a Prius. Meaning, you have to wait 60 months to save any money over a non-hybrid car because of lower gas expenses.

[RCSignals]

Overall they pollute more than a ULEV certified vehicle, and the Marauder is a ULEV certified vehicle.

[mcb26]

Not all Hippies are environmentalist. :D:burnout::burnout:

[Advancedautosec]

life is full of irony...

[jimlam56]

Agreed. And what do we do with the batteries when they no longer hold a charge?
Now, don't get me started on this ethanol BS...

[BAD MERC]

Outstanding insight. Consumer reports did head-to-head tests of Hybrids VS. their gas-only counterparts and found NO beneifit in cost savings and quite the contrary - MORE expensive cost of ownership which is compounded by Hybrid-specific shops and technicians, battery packs that are expensive as all hell and Nickel batteries which- (drumroll please).......... NEVER, ever biodegrade and will always contaminate the Earth. Here's a few that most people never consider. Some tow companies will not tow a wrecked hybrid for fear of electrical fires and corrosive acids damaging their equipment. Also, vehicle collisions where a Hybrid is breached in such a way that occupants AND first-responders are burned and maimed by acid spills or high voltage. Not to mention EMS that will not touch a Hybrid or it's occupants until HAZMAT cleans the corrosive spills. There you green bastards - real fart smuckers aren't ya?

[duhtroll]

Of course, it's all most likely bullsh|t:

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2006/10/05/oh-so-a-hummer-is-not-greener-a-prius/


This "Prius is an environmental monster" crap is just propaganda. Personally, I won't buy anything like it until they can make something with more power (over 2000 RPMS that is :lol:) but that doesn't mean they are completely valueless, if for no other reason than taking a step away from oil dependence, or even as a short-term solution, whatever.

The ones who win the propaganda war are the ones with the most money. Always remember that. Oil companies have more money than, well, everyone. Why do you think the electric cars disappeared?

Things like this (and the ethanol debate, btw) have been slanted in just about every way they possibly can be.

"Of COURSE it's true. I read it on the internet!"

:laugh:

[KillJoy]

The ones who win the propaganda war are the ones with the most money. Always remember that. Oil companies have more money than, well, everyone. Why do you think the electric cars disappeared?

Things like this (and the ethanol debate, btw) have been slanted in just about every way they possibly can be.

"Of COURSE it's true. I read it on the internet!"

:laugh:


It was nice knowing you. :D

Truth KILLS ;)

:up:

KillJoy

[jgc61sr2002]

The main advantage of a Hybrid vehicle in NY is you can use the HOV lanes on the Long Island Expressway solo.:D

[jimlam56]

Things like this (and the ethanol debate, btw) have been slanted in just about every way they possibly can be. (quote)


You got me started...:rolleyes:

"Despite the upsides, however, experts point out that biofuels are far from a cure for our addiction to petroleum. A wholesale societal shift from gasoline to biofuels, given the number of gas-only cars already on the road and the lack of ethanol or biodiesel pumps at existing filling stations, would take some time.

Another major hurdle for widespread adoption of biofuels is the challenge of growing enough crops to meet demand, something skeptics say might well require converting just about all of the world’s remaining forests and open spaces over to agricultural land. “Replacing only five percent of the nation’s diesel consumption with biodiesel would require diverting approximately 60 percent of today’s soy crops to biodiesel production,” says Matthew Brown, an energy consultant and former energy program director at the National Conference of State Legislatures. “That’s bad news for tofu lovers.”

Another dark cloud looming over biofuels is whether producing them actually requires more energy than they can generate. After factoring in the energy needed to grow crops and then convert them into biofuels, Cornell University researcher David Pimental concludes that the numbers just don’t add up. His 2005 study found that producing ethanol from corn required 29 percent more energy than the end product itself is capable of generating. He found similarly troubling numbers in making biodiesel from soybeans. “There is just no energy benefit to using plant biomass for liquid fuel,” says Pimentel."

[larryo340]

The main advantage of a Hybrid vehicle in NY is you can use the HOV lanes on the Long Island Expressway solo.:D

the hybrid is great for the single driver in the HOV lane, but it totally DEFEATS the purpose of a hybrid. Hyrids are "green" vehicles when going slower in heavy traffic when the gasoline engine is off. At highway speeds the gasoline engine is always on (hello exhaust pollution), so in reality the car is getting less fuel economy.
Sorry just stating the facts, and maybe I'm jealous I have to sit in traffic :mad2:on the L.I.E.

[duhtroll]

The only problem with this is that current biofuels were never intended to completely replace gasoline, only reduce the consumption in the short term until other technologies could be developed and implemented. They were never presented as an "end-all" solution.

Once people get by that part, it's not so bad.


Things like this (and the ethanol debate, btw) have been slanted in just about every way they possibly can be. (quote)


You got me started...:rolleyes:

"Despite the upsides, however, experts point out that biofuels are far from a cure for our addiction to petroleum. A wholesale societal shift from gasoline to biofuels, given the number of gas-only cars already on the road and the lack of ethanol or biodiesel pumps at existing filling stations, would take some time.

Another major hurdle for widespread adoption of biofuels is the challenge of growing enough crops to meet demand, something skeptics say might well require converting just about all of the world’s remaining forests and open spaces over to agricultural land. “Replacing only five percent of the nation’s diesel consumption with biodiesel would require diverting approximately 60 percent of today’s soy crops to biodiesel production,” says Matthew Brown, an energy consultant and former energy program director at the National Conference of State Legislatures. “That’s bad news for tofu lovers.”

Another dark cloud looming over biofuels is whether producing them actually requires more energy than they can generate. After factoring in the energy needed to grow crops and then convert them into biofuels, Cornell University researcher David Pimental concludes that the numbers just don’t add up. His 2005 study found that producing ethanol from corn required 29 percent more energy than the end product itself is capable of generating. He found similarly troubling numbers in making biodiesel from soybeans. “There is just no energy benefit to using plant biomass for liquid fuel,” says Pimentel."

[jimlam56]

The only problem with this is that current biofuels were never intended to completely replace gasoline, only reduce the consumption in the short term until other technologies could be developed and implemented. They were never presented as an "end-all" solution.

Once people get by that part, it's not so bad.

Biofuels,and ethanol in particular are currently being presented by certain authority factions as the solution to all our energy problems. This is false.
And dangerous to our future.

My opinion.

[KillJoy]

Biofuels COULD BE a solution to gasoline. But...IT WILL NEVER become so.

:rolleyes:

KillJoy

[wchain]

I agree to Jimlam56. While I do in fact run BioDiesel in my Mercedeseseseses, I don't do it because its 'green' or 'environmentally friendly' although that is an added plus, but I like the way it makes the cars run, quieter, smoother, and about the same power and fuel economy.

Biodiesel is running around the same price as petro diesel, 2.69 a gallon, and still legal in texas until Dec 2007. Then there will be a decision on it to see if it still can be sold and any environmental benefits have been reaped.

Just my .02

[duhtroll]

Nuh-uh! ;)

Who/what is the study/person/organization that says "all?"

If such writing exists, it was written by an insane person or a retarded monkey.

Whoever is making said proposal probably means such use will eliminate the current (read: until we can implement other methods) gas crisis.

By "eliminate the crisis," I mean "make it so it's no longer a crisis," not "eliminate our need for gasoline." Just so we're clear.

I highly doubt there's someone proposing any type of current biofuel as a universal, absolute solution in perpetuity (which is what "all" would denote, hence my problem with your assertion).


Biofuels,and ethanol in particular are currently being presented by certain authority factions as the solution to all our energy problems. This is false.
And dangerous to our future.

My opinion.

[jimlam56]

Biofuels COULD BE a solution to gasoline. But...IT WILL NEVER become so.

:rolleyes:

KillJoy
Please educate...
How it could...:D

[KillJoy]

Please educate...
How it could...:D

IF "Big Oil" put as much into reseaching current Biofuels (corn, soy, etc) as it makes in huge profits, and would permit such fuels and vehicles to be used, it COULD.

However, they WILL NEVER let that happen.

KillJoy

[CRUZTAKER]

life is full of irony...


And Rust Never Sleeps.;)

[MENINBLK]

Today, I was at my son's graduation.
I was talking to one of the parents and he knows someone
who can make a car run off of seawater.
It was shown to him and he couldn't believe it.

It seems that this person was busy inventing something else when
he stumbled upon a natural catalyst that when placed into seawater
immediately causes the seawater to boil, producing Free Oxygen and Free Hydrogen !

This was found by accident, and now he is pursuing devlopment of the new found catalyst.
He couldn't remember what it was called, but he said it is naturally occuring
and it poses no harm to the environment.
All we would need to do is to use fiberglass fuel tanks
and fill them with clean seawater, and of course
have an engine that could burn the Hydrogen/Oxygen gases released by the process.

[larryo340]

you mean like this:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=8YAuKpJl_pA

[Leadfoot281]

100 years ago, electric cars outnumbered gas powered cars by a wide margin. Electric vehicals died due to a lack of performance when compared to gas powered vehicals.(sound familiar?)

"Big oil" had nothing to do with that. "Big oil" didn't exist 100 years ago.

"Big oil" killed the electric car just like spoons made Rosie O'Donnel fat. Both happen to be cases of consumer demand.

Why should "big oil" develope alternative fuel sources? Isn't that like asking Hollywood to come up with alternatives to movies and TV?

Also, what's wrong with using Bio-fuels/ethanol? I keep hearing that "it's not enough to replace fossil fuels..." . So what?! If you need $1,000 for a house payment, but only have $800, do you just say; "it's not enough!" and throw the $800 away?

My brain itches...

[duhtroll]

Electric vehicles weren't able to be recharged 100 years ago like they are now.

The only way the IC Engine "outperformed" the electric was that it was easier to keep going -- one just had to carry gasoline.

Big Oil most certainly DID destroy electric cars in this country, however. We had electric cars on the market 10 years ago that consumers wanted to keep. They were not allowed to buy them, only to lease them. When the leases were up, GM took them away.

And promptly crushed them all - save one in the museum. There's video of people who had their electrics taken from them keeping watch on the yards where the electrics were stored after repossession. They followed the trucks to the junkyard, watched the cars being crushed, and then watched how GM said "there's no demand."

Think about it - how many moving parts in the IC engine would no longer be needed, along with oil changes, filters, etc.? Demand had nothing to do with it. Greed did, however.

Look up who bought out all of the electric street cars and where they went, and what they were replaced with.


100 years ago, electric cars outnumbered gas powered cars by a wide margin. Electric vehicals died due to a lack of performance when compared to gas powered vehicals.(sound familiar?)

"Big oil" had nothing to do with that. "Big oil" didn't exist 100 years ago.

"Big oil" killed the electric car just like spoons made Rosie O'Donnel fat. Both happen to be cases of consumer demand.

Why should "big oil" develope alternative fuel sources? Isn't that like asking Hollywood to come up with alternatives to movies and TV?

Also, what's wrong with using Bio-fuels/ethanol? I keep hearing that "it's not enough to replace fossil fuels..." . So what?! If you need $1,000 for a house payment, but only have $800, do you just say; "it's not enough!" and throw the $800 away?

My brain itches...

[Leadfoot281]

I really dislike the term "electric car". It's just not accurate. "They" replaced the word "swamp" in the last edition of the New Speak Dictionary and replaced it with "wetland". OK, fine then.

Since accuracy is important to this disscussion, I humbly suggest we now refer to "electric cars" as "coal cars" or "soot mobiles".

So you're saying, that in a fantasy fist fight between "big oil" and "big coal", that "big oil" actually won?

I guess I missed that one. "Big coal" must not have been as greedy.

Electric street cars wouldn't have worked here "in the sticks". My house didn't get electricity until 1970. It didn't have indoor plumbing until 1970 either. It did however have gas lighting when built (1862). Apparently "big oil" won this battle a long time ago. Either that or consumers choose the best solution. They still choose what they want. I choose wood heat 4 years ago and "big oil" didn't stop me.

I have absolutely no doubt that there is a video on the 'net somewhere, showing someone crying about loosing their leased GM Impact soot mobile. There are lots of videos on the 'net. Heck, you should have seen the video I saw last week! It involved two women, and what appeared to be sasquatch...(Proof sasquatch lives is on the 'net somewhere!)

GM killed the Buick Reatta (remember those things?) to fund their Impact soot mobile. ("Big oil" did that too?). GM (the people that feed "big oil") lost millions on the Impact.(Is this another of "Big oils" ideas?). GM crushed a total of 43 1983 Corvettes.(must have been "big oil" at work again).

This whole "big oil" theory has more holes in it than a French cathouse.

[RCSignals]

As if electricity is 'clean'

[RCSignals]

Of course, it's all most likely bullsh|t:

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2006/10/05/oh-so-a-hummer-is-not-greener-a-prius/


This "Prius is an environmental monster" crap is just propaganda. Personally, I won't buy anything like it until they can make something with more power (over 2000 RPMS that is :lol:) but that doesn't mean they are completely valueless, if for no other reason than taking a step away from oil dependence, or even as a short-term solution, whatever.

The ones who win the propaganda war are the ones with the most money. Always remember that. Oil companies have more money than, well, everyone. Why do you think the electric cars disappeared?

Things like this (and the ethanol debate, btw) have been slanted in just about every way they possibly can be.

"Of COURSE it's true. I read it on the internet!"

:laugh:

and of course that is all true, it's in a Blog after all.

Following the money in this instance leads us to Toyota. :banana2:

No self interest there at all.

[finster101]

This discussion is kind of mute on a web site devoted to 5000lb supercharged cars. You can talk about this till you are blue in the face, but it isn't going to change in our lifetime and probably our kids either

[Badger]

As if electricity is 'clean'
Good point. It takes energy to refine copper, extrude plastic insulation (petroleum), scrubbers to clean coal plant emmisions, and cement to damn water up for hydro electric.

[juno]

My question on Ethanol is whose bright idea was it to make it 85% ethanol and try to cram it down our throats when it is more expensive and requires modifications to materials?
Is there not a safer level, say 20% or a little more?

So if we could use 20% without any modifications and limited performance impact would it not make more sense?

Say we could support 20% across the board with out severe impact in crop production or to current vehicles. Now make that mandatory and instantly decrease the consumption of gas in vehicles by 20%. That would make the oil companies and their SUPPLIERS crap in their pants.
Again 20% is just a random number, but what would be reasonable and can be done NOW while other sources and technologies are developed? Even 15% would have a signifcant impact. Imagine if overnite every vehicle on the road instantly used 10, or 20, or 30 percent less petroleum!

Do you think it is a case of greenies just shooting way too high or big oil hoping that at 85% it will fail?

I have looked at hybrid options and they are too exspensive for me at this time. Maybe when I NEED to replace a vehicle it will work out better.

In the meantime I will experiment how to get the best gas mileage out of a 700 hp gas powered V8 engine.

[O's Fan Rich]

IF "Big Oil" put as much into reseaching current Biofuels (corn, soy, etc) as it makes in huge profits, and would permit such fuels and vehicles to be used, it COULD.

However, they WILL NEVER let that happen.

KillJoy

How do you know they are not?
Imagine the oil interests buying mega farms and land worldwide. Controlling not only fuel but also land resources along with food......
If I were "The Man" behind "Big Oil" ( like there is a "small oil, eh?) I'd be doing just that and funding my purchases with.... price increases.
But, that's me... and I'm an idiot.

[duhtroll]

You missed the entire point there.

Of course, the fact that there are two sides to every story was somehow lost, as well. And that at least the post I gave didn't offer completely unfounded conclusions like "Cheerios actually cause cancer."

So you're saying the stuff about the Prius is true, then?

Shout loudest, get a bunch of people pissed off, and facts become unnecessary.


and of course that is all true, it's in a Blog after all.

Following the money in this instance leads us to Toyota. :banana2:

No self interest there at all.

[duhtroll]

So you're saying, that in a fantasy fist fight between "big oil" and "big coal", that "big oil" actually won?

Coal is only one provider of electricity. About 50% of the electricity came from coal in '04, according to the Energy Information Administration. But how many motor vehicles out there today don't require oil?



Electric street cars wouldn't have worked here "in the sticks". My house didn't get electricity until 1970. It didn't have indoor plumbing until 1970 either. It did however have gas lighting when built (1862). Apparently "big oil" won this battle a long time ago. Either that or consumers choose the best solution. They still choose what they want. I choose wood heat 4 years ago and "big oil" didn't stop me.

Except that I was referring to 1996, that would make sense. If we get everyone to live "out in the sticks" with no industry worldwide, you'd have the perfect solution.


I have absolutely no doubt that there is a video on the 'net somewhere, showing someone crying about loosing their leased GM Impact soot mobile. There are lots of videos on the 'net. Heck, you should have seen the video I saw last week! It involved two women, and what appeared to be sasquatch...(Proof sasquatch lives is on the 'net somewhere!)

And in the documentary. (i.e. not from the 'net) I find it hard to believe they faked the GM plant with street addresses, etc. The crushed cars looked pretty authentic. I suppose this documentary's budget had millions to spend on fabrication, but not enough to run the film in mainstream theaters. It's all just another conspiracy! :lol:


This whole "big oil" theory has more holes in it than a French cathouse.

For someone doing no research on the subject and espousing mob theory, you'd have to be correct here. :rolleyes: Look something up for a change.

As for the "electric cars produce equal emissions (or worse) to gas-powered vehicles," this is called the "long tailpipe theory."

And it's false:

“Long Tailpipe” Controversy Studied
The “long tailpipe” theory argues that electric vehicles do not
really create zero emissions, because the electricity needed to
charge the batteries is produced in power plants. In June
2001, the Argonne National Laboratory released a US
Department of Energy-sponsored study that found that
battery-powered electric vehicles result in a 35% reduction in
greenhouse gases. This reduction was based upon electricity
generation from the national grid, roughly half of which is
derived from coal (According to the Energy Information
Administration, the “Electric Power Generation By Fuel Type”
states that coal accounted for 50% of the electric power
generation in ’04).
In 2004, an analysis of data from the California Air Resources
Board found that electric vehicles resulted in a 67% reduction
in overall greenhouse gases in California, compared to a car
powered exclusively by gasoline. Also in 2004, the Institute
for Lifecycle Environmental Assessment compared battery
electric vehicles to vehicles using hydrogen fuel cells, and
found that the former technology was almost twice as
efficient in its use of energy than current fuel cell technology.
Electric vehicles also reduced nearly twice as much
greenhouse gas emission than hydrogen fuel cell vehicles.
Page 35
35
Finally, some energy experts and utility analysts contend that
millions of plug-in hybrid electric vehicles could be added to
California’s fleet without substantially impacting the state’s
current energy grid, since most of the charging for the plug-in
hybrid electric vehicles could be done during off-peak hours,
at night.
2004 CARB reference: information derived from CARB staff report –
“Regulations to control greenhouse gas emissions from motor vehicles”
(8/6/04) Argonne National Lab. Reference: “Development and Use of
GREET 1.6 Fuel-Cycle Model for Transportation Fuels and Vehicle
Technologies”, by MQ Wang, Center for Transportation Research, Argonne
National Laboratory, June 2001
“Carrying the Energy Future: comparing electricity and hydrogen for
transmission, storage and transportation”, Institute for Lifecycle
Environmental Assessment, Patrick Mazza & Roel Hammerschlag, June
2004, p.25
phone conversation with Southern California Edison’s Ed Kjaer, December,
2005

And now, batteries are several times more efficient than even 5 years ago.

The tech is there, and it works, AND it's better for emissions, AND it's cheaper. AND, ladies and gents, electric cars are faster.

You tell me why we can't have them. It's easy to say there's no demand when there's no product, no marketing and therefore no sales.

Remember all those Mercury Marauder commercials? The Ford canceled it for "lack of demand?" Yeah, right. Then the 300C sells how many thousand?

Speaking of holes in a theory...

[endless]

don't compare the 300c and the marauder.

yes they are both V8, four doors, and rear wheel drive, but stylistically they are polar opposites.

Unfortunately, most people probably wouldnt notice the difference between a grand marq, a crown vic and a marauder. the 300C people notice it immediately.

having an extra litre of engine doesnt hurt either

[grampaws]

Electric motors last longer the IC motors,Battery materials can be recycled
New technologies are always more expensive and as there demand increases
the cost of research and manufacturing will come down.There is no way
A hummer is more environmentally friendly than a small car.even just based
on the energy require to move it. I'll hold my judgement until I have more
facts- But I expect to see Hybrids being a more viable option than ethanol and fuel cells.Time will tell.

[grampaws]

300-c's are ugly -I wish I had the same size motor!!

[RCSignals]

You missed the entire point there.

Of course, the fact that there are two sides to every story was somehow lost, as well. And that at least the post I gave didn't offer completely unfounded conclusions like "Cheerios actually cause cancer."

So you're saying the stuff about the Prius is true, then?

Shout loudest, get a bunch of people pissed off, and facts become unnecessary.


Of course Toyota's 'facts' are the final reality

[Leadfoot281]

How well do electric cars (aka soot mobiles) run during rolling blackouts? :rolleyes:

I suppose more coal power plants would need to be built to handle the increased need.

GM only leased the Impact for a variety of reasons. I followed it closely in high school.

They are not going to pour millions into a project that may or may not pay off. Instead they put their limited resources into vehicles that do sell. They do, after all, want to stay in business. They cannot afford to develope car soley for Ed Begly Jr. and his wacky friends.

I'm done arguing. Go buy yourself a sporty, torquey, Prious. Maybe you should look up directions on the 'net on how to convert your car to electric power. Your car will be faster too. Stay on the look out for "big oil's" henchmen though...(I hear they've been beating up Toyota exec's over the Prious).

If "big oil" killed the electric car, why is Toyota the number one car maufacturer? If "big oil" has this much power and influence, why did Ford kill the Excursion?

I've gone through 1,000+ gallons of diesel in two months and need to order more. 160 gallons in the last two days alone.

Don't like E-85? Then don't buy it. If some one tries to cram it down your throat, report them to law enforcement.

Nothing said here is going to make me sell my cars or my tractors. My grampa used horses until he went to steam. Gas powered IC engines then replaced his steam engines. From what he said, I believe it really sucked using horses.

None of those changes were made because of "big oil's" greed. Plowing with horses sucks! So does hauling literally tons of water and coal for steam engines. This is, and has always been, a consumer driven economy, based in capitolism.

I like gas. I like diesel. I'm not hitching to San Fransisco to ride the trolley cars anytime soon. Enjoy your supper. Do me a small favor and clean your plate.

[RCSignals]

Hummer drivers don't need to worry. They can always buy some "Carbon offsets" and have a clear conscience.

[Raudermaster]

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/2797/16100320392fg9.gif (http://imageshack.us)

Is that a hybrid?!?!
THAAAAAAAANKS!!!

[RCSignals]

Can I get a Hybrid badge for my Marauder?

[Raudermaster]

No, I want the "Synergy Drive" one for mine. People will think it's a sophisticated word for a Turbo.

[Leadfoot281]

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/2797/16100320392fg9.gif (http://imageshack.us)

Is that a hybrid?!?!
THAAAAAAAANKS!!!

LMAO!! Great episode!

Smug alert!!!

[Richy04]

http://i14.tinypic.com/6gaoj7r.jpgI have a 2000 Honda Insight that I bought brand new in 2002 (obvious leftover) The sticker was 22k, I saw some chick checking it out and she told me they were dumping them half price (gas was around 1.10 a gallon then). I scored a brand new one for $11,498 in Feb of 02. I've had it for over 5 years and it cost me 160 bucks in repairs since I bought it.

I replaced a coil (has cops) for 80 bucks and the exhaust donut. The air is still Ice cold, everything works, looks good and still gets 54 mpg with a bad battery (crapped out at 135k). I use it every day to go from the NJ shore to Queens (work). On my 3rd set of tires, original rear brakes.

It now has 161k on it and still going (its a turtle now but still goes)...

Where were the hippies then?? They certainly werent buying Hybrids, but now that gas is a kings ransom I guess its time to be green..:puke:

[Richy04]

Aint she beautiful? They should have made the Marauder in that color!!

[Raudermaster]

I absolutely hate the look of those cars lol.

[RCSignals]

http://i14.tinypic.com/6gaoj7r.jpgI have a 2000 Honda Insight that I bought brand new in 2002 (obvious leftover) The sticker was 22k, I saw some chick checking it out and she told me they were dumping them half price (gas was around 1.10 a gallon then). I scored a brand new one for $11,498 in Feb of 02. I've had it for over 5 years and it cost me 160 bucks in repairs since I bought it.

I replaced a coil (has cops) for 80 bucks and the exhaust donut. The air is still Ice cold, everything works, looks good and still gets 54 mpg with a bad battery (crapped out at 135k). I use it every day to go from the NJ shore to Queens (work). On my 3rd set of tires, original rear brakes.

It now has 161k on it and still going (its a turtle now but still goes)...

Where were the hippies then?? They certainly werent buying Hybrids, but now that gas is a kings ransom I guess its time to be green..:puke:

You certainly bought it for a good price. They want a premium for them now.

[Richy04]

<TABLE class=tborder style="BORDER-TOP-WIDTH: 0px" cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=6 width="100%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR title="Post 504753" vAlign=top><TD class=alt1 align=middle width=125>Raudermaster</TD><TD class=alt2>I absolutely hate the look of those cars lol.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


You're just jealous that you dont have one in that fantastic color.. Its one of 328 you know.. Just kidding, didnt have a choice on the color and sitting inside it, I dont have to look at it, you do !!

:banana:


In tip top shape they will do 0-60 in 10 seconds, not bad for a 3 banger..

Mine is supercharged (it has an extra gerbil in it) It has a Lidio 87 octane tune, port and polish job, one delete tip, a flowmaster-10 muffler, 3/4 inch stainless exhaust (hi-flo) 14 inch Nitto drag radials, and its on the bottle ((( dynoed at 111 hp at sea level and 70 degrees F. ))) :burnout:


:bs: :bs: :bs:

[mcb26]

[QUOTE=Richy04;504743]http://i14.tinypic.com/6gaoj7r.jpgWhere were the hippies then??

Sitting on my deck drinking beer and tossing the cans in the bed of my F150

[larryo340]

that's a nasty commute you got there, I hope it is off peak at least

[Aren Jay]

1) I don't fit into a Prius. Where the gear selector is, is the exact placement that my knee occupies when I am sitting with the seat all the way back. I literally cannot switch into drive.

2) Have you seen what a Prius gets for gas mileage in the cold. They are terrible as the electrical systems do not work when it gets cold.

3) The silent around town Prius is a deadly killer of small children and adults. Forget Ipods and other musical devices without them you cannot hear a Prius approaching and are (more than twice) times more likely to be hit by a Prius than another non hybrid just by hearing it coming and looking for the vehicle, especially in the city.

4) what he said above.

5) The battery and disposal of said battery is worse of a nightmare than the idea of gasoline pollution.

A much better idea is the MDI air car. It runs on compressed air, takes 4 minutes to recharge it's air tanks and uses its own exhaust as air conditioning. It is literally a Noisy car (not too noisy) that cleans the air as it dirves and when worn out does not pollute the enviroment. They may be Subaru ugly but the do not polute much when made and clean the air when used. Prius and other Hyrbirds, Fail.

[mcb26]

Pirus drivers around here have a tendency to drive below the speed limit in the fast lane during rush hour causing everyone to have to stop at every light. An engineer at work has one, followed him with the mm, his speedometer is 8 mile an hour high, That seems a might much to be an accident. The mm has been calibrated by Alabama's finest.

[Richy04]

In NJ you can do 80mph and not get pinched, so I stay around 80 and no problem.. It will do 113 and then the speedo limit kicks in. It handles real well, and more importantly you can cut into the windshield glass with your nipples its so cold in there with the a/c on.. :D The car looks small outside but is spacious inside for a two seater. It rides hard though but still is pretty tight for its age.

The bonus is that it uses 0w-20 or 5w-20 Mobil 1 so I keep the 5w on hand for both cars..

I am retrofitting a new Prius battery pack in there, its set up like a bus bar so I can tailor it to the 144v I need by yanking packs out (its around 200v to 210v) then trim it down and add in my sensors and make up some cooling ducts and I am good to go.. Got it from a buddy who works in a salvage yard for a good price. The only difference is that the packs in a Prius are shaped different than the insight. But it runs just fine without it, you lose acceleration though..

[MENINBLK]

you mean like this:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=8YAuKpJl_pA

He is using electricity in that video.
This car doesn't need any power to cause the seawater
to release the HHO gas in the same way.

[MENINBLK]

I am retrofitting a new Prius battery pack in there, its set up like a bus bar so I can tailor it to the 144v I need by yanking packs out (its around 200v to 210v) then trim it down and add in my sensors and make up some cooling ducts and I am good to go.. Got it from a buddy who works in a salvage yard for a good price. The only difference is that the packs in a Prius are shaped different than the insight. But it runs just fine without it, you lose acceleration though..

There is a new battery kit coming out so that you can charge the batteries in about 30 minutes from a wall outlet,
and be able to drive up to 50 miles without ever having to use the gasoline engine.
The kit is going to sell for less than $10,000 installed.

There will be DIY kit without the 30 minute charger, but it will take an overnight charge for about $3,000.

You replace the NiMHI batteries with High Capacity Li-Ion batteries.

http://www.edrivesystems.com/

They have systems for the Prius now with other kits to be released very soon.

[PhastPhil]

I've heard that a Ford Fusion, being a Pzev vehicle actually puts out less pollution than either a Honda Accord Hybrid or Civic Hybrid. I don't remember which. Can anyone verify if this is true or not?

[larryo340]

He is using electricity in that video.
This car doesn't need any power to cause the seawater
to release the HHO gas in the same way.

yes he's using electricity for the welder, but did you watch the last portion of the video with his escort wagon running on water?

[duhtroll]

RC, get a grip. Toyota is the one NOT making outrageous claims. And, I never said their facts were the only ones. You missed the point, again. That was that everyone has their own webpages. The point is there are more views than just those who don't like "hippies."


Of course Toyota's 'facts' are the final reality

[duhtroll]

OK, you're an expert. Now look up the EV-1 and its history.

No, they don't need more power plants. Another erroneous leap, that.

They had plenty of buyers that wanted the EV-1s. They were not *allowed* to buy them. Then they crushed them. Then they made their own conclusions for the public to absorb.

Since when did I say I wanted a Prius? By saying what you are posting here is crap, I'm not saying I like them, only that what you're posting here is crap.

All of your other conclusions are based on things that don't follow one another. Toyota being the biggest car maker has nothing to do with this discussion. And that's the problem. You need to actually find facts rather than internet propoganda, and follow them with some sort of logic before you can make a cogent argument. Good luck with that.


How well do electric cars (aka soot mobiles) run during rolling blackouts? :rolleyes:

I suppose more coal power plants would need to be built to handle the increased need.

GM only leased the Impact for a variety of reasons. I followed it closely in high school.

They are not going to pour millions into a project that may or may not pay off. Instead they put their limited resources into vehicles that do sell. They do, after all, want to stay in business. They cannot afford to develope car soley for Ed Begly Jr. and his wacky friends.

I'm done arguing. Go buy yourself a sporty, torquey, Prious. Maybe you should look up directions on the 'net on how to convert your car to electric power. Your car will be faster too. Stay on the look out for "big oil's" henchmen though...(I hear they've been beating up Toyota exec's over the Prious).

If "big oil" killed the electric car, why is Toyota the number one car maufacturer? If "big oil" has this much power and influence, why did Ford kill the Excursion?

I've gone through 1,000+ gallons of diesel in two months and need to order more. 160 gallons in the last two days alone.

Don't like E-85? Then don't buy it. If some one tries to cram it down your throat, report them to law enforcement.

Nothing said here is going to make me sell my cars or my tractors. My grampa used horses until he went to steam. Gas powered IC engines then replaced his steam engines. From what he said, I believe it really sucked using horses.

None of those changes were made because of "big oil's" greed. Plowing with horses sucks! So does hauling literally tons of water and coal for steam engines. This is, and has always been, a consumer driven economy, based in capitolism.

I like gas. I like diesel. I'm not hitching to San Fransisco to ride the trolley cars anytime soon. Enjoy your supper. Do me a small favor and clean your plate.

[Dr Caleb]

I sort of always wanted an Insight. Except for their reputation as a Winter car (9 months of it here). Really hackable, and would be cool to try out my own mods. Solar charging, that sort of thing.

I always liked hippies too. They always know where to get the best weed.

How about my favourite? The Smart car. Coming next year to the US too!

A few modded models to choose from!


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v621/wdhiii/smartaudi.jpg

Smart Audi

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v621/wdhiii/Smartferrari.jpg

Smart Ferrari

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v621/wdhiii/Smartlambo.jpg

Smart Lambo

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v621/wdhiii/smartporshe.jpg

Smart Porsche

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v621/wdhiii/smartporshetarga.jpg

Smart Porsche Targa

And MY favorite...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v621/wdhiii/Smartvette.jpg

Smart Vette.

;)

[RCSignals]

RC, get a grip. Toyota is the one NOT making outrageous claims. And, I never said their facts were the only ones. You missed the point, again. That was that everyone has their own webpages. The point is there are more views than just those who don't like "hippies."

I'm not the one who has missed the point. Toyotas claims are not outrageous? Then whose are?

It has nothing to do with "hippies" just because someone put that word in the title of this thread.

[RCSignals]

I sort of always wanted an Insight. Except for their reputation as a Winter car (9 months of it here). Really hackable, and would be cool to try out my own mods. Solar charging, that sort of thing.

I always liked hippies too. They always know where to get the best weed.

How about my favourite? The Smart car. Coming next year to the US too!

A few modded models to choose from!



;)

buy a half dozen of those and you can take your friends and family out to dinner

[duhtroll]

OK, for argument's sake let's just say everything posted previously in this thread, by everyone including myself, is total :bs:

My point still stands. That being, people believe whatever they read on the internet and in their ignorance, it gets spread without anyone looking up a single fact, especially when it promulgates hatred of something or someone that represents a different view.

At least I looked some of it up, and have yet to see any real evidence to the contrary. I see things like "omyGODthenickelplantisgoingtor uintheearthandcausecancerandsp ontaneousdecapitation!"

Send this message to 14 of your friends and Microsoft will send you $1 per email. Really!

I don't like the Prius -- never have. But if we're going to criticize the car let's do it with reality in mind, not some made up crap that it's worse for the environment than a Hummer. People who endorse stuff like that blindly just to justify their own gas guzzlers and say there's nothing that can be done to help the gas crisis? Rejections based upon faulty logic because looking it up might mean they would have to accept some responsibility? Delusional.

I drive a gas guzzler, but at least I understand that there are much better things out there that could be driven as far as helping the environment, and making that choice is a valid one, even if it's not for me.

I also carpool to work with three other people, which is better than driving ANY car every day, so I am doing my part in some way.

And yes, the "hippies" reference is certainly valid. People who disagree with driving muscle cars must always be wrong around here, or haven't you noticed? Just look how the word is used. Look at how many labels are used to immediately dismiss what someone has to say. Gay. Liberal. For f*** sake, around here if you bought the wrong S/C or used the wrong oil (natch!) you didn't know jack about anything.

I thought only elementary schoolchildren used name calling to make a point.


I'm not the one who has missed the point. Toyotas claims are not outrageous? Then whose are?

It has nothing to do with "hippies" just because someone put that word in the title of this thread.

[Leadfoot281]

OK Duhtroll, what's the name of this "documentary" that proves how "big oil" killed the electric car? I would like to see it before anyone completely dismisses another word I say.

I hope this documentary is better than the last one I saw. That one was about an English rock quartet called Spinal Tap.( unfortunately, many people didn't believe that one either).

Does this documentary also show how "big steam" killed "big horse" and how "big oil" then went on to kill "big steam"? Does this documentary show how "big oil" prevented "big coal" from developing electric tractors? I'd love to see footage of "big oil" crushing an electric tractor (or steam engines and horses for that matter)!

Sorry if my recent posts haven't been "cogent" enough. I blame that one me being outside 16hours/day, burning diesel, so that my cattle have something to eat this winter. My bad. I have to eat and get back to work now. Speaking of which, did you all clean your plates? I burn a lot of fuel making that stuff y'know. That hamburger has a "carbon footprint" too.(more like hoof print!)

Anyone care to guess how much how much a Marauder seat weighs when it still has four stomachs inside? "doing my part for the environment", my a$$!!!!

[RCSignals]

the talk of "Big Oil" and "Big Oil" profits is funny.
It has to be a smoke screen to draw attention fro the profits "Big Banks" make, and of course "Big Wally"

[duhtroll]

Interestingly enough, it's called "Who Killed the Electric Car?" Netflix has it. I have the press kit file if you'd like to read it rather than take the time to rent/watch the whole film since it wastes time trying to be dramatic.

Their use of moronic celebs and overly-dramatic settings and music aside, (I wonder if they think using Mel Gibson is a positive :rolleyes: - of course I think this was done before he flipped out on the world) the film makes some good points. Namely --

1) The tech works, and is cheap to use. It's now even better -- the batteries (Lithium ion batteries weren't around in the early 90s) could now send vehicles up to 300 miles per charge.
2) People wanted the cars and couldn't have them.
3) Oil companies and automakers joined forces to get rid of the EV-1. They make $billions more on IC powered cars. Good for them, bad for everyone else.

Aside - RC, it's good business for "big oil" to get rid of them -- same for makers of auto parts. Of course they had a hand in it. I don't see how you're not getting this.

Also, do a comparison about the oil profit margins. If they are supposedly always making the same % "because they are entitled to their fair share," then why do they announce record profits even in quarters where

1) Prices have dropped, AND
2) consumption has dropped, as well?

Make sense to you? Hope not. It means they are gouging us. Of course they are, because right now no one can stop them with so many legislators in their pockets.

If someone backed up a dump truck full of money to the house just for your depositing some radioactive waste near an old folks home, it'd be tough to refuse for just about anyone.

4) Electric cars do not cause more pollution than IC, either directly or indirectly.

Which is all that really matters. If someone can show me some REAL evidence to the contrary, I'll rethink my position. I ain't seen any yet, tho'.

PS Uh, Spinal Tap was not supposed to be real. It's a comedy. I really hope you know that. Otherwise, we can just stop this discussion here.

PPS As for the cattle, I'm really not sure what you're referring to. Are you saying if I eat beef I do more to hurt the world than those who raise it?

PPPS And I don't think the film would have had a good rating if it had shown horses being crushed, so again you're on your own there.


OK Duhtroll, what's the name of this "documentary" that proves how "big oil" killed the electric car? I would like to see it before anyone completely dismisses another word I say.

I hope this documentary is better than the last one I saw. That one was about an English rock quartet called Spinal Tap.( unfortunately, many people didn't believe that one either).

Does this documentary also show how "big steam" killed "big horse" and how "big oil" then went on to kill "big steam"? Does this documentary show how "big oil" prevented "big coal" from developing electric tractors? I'd love to see footage of "big oil" crushing an electric tractor (or steam engines and horses for that matter)!

Sorry if my recent posts haven't been "cogent" enough. I blame that one me being outside 16hours/day, burning diesel, so that my cattle have something to eat this winter. My bad. I have to eat and get back to work now. Speaking of which, did you all clean your plates? I burn a lot of fuel making that stuff y'know. That hamburger has a "carbon footprint" too.(more like hoof print!)

Anyone care to guess how much how much a Marauder seat weighs when it still has four stomachs inside? "doing my part for the environment", my a$$!!!!

[ParkRanger]

Huh? What? Somebody say Hippie? :eek:

Aw Man ....... Pass it over here.
Peace brother.

:beatnik: :bandit: :sleepy:

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

Do you think the acid rain in Ontario, caused by manufacturing hybrid batteries, is what ate the clear coat on the horizontal surfaces of a lot of 300As, including mine?

[duhtroll]

No.

Acid rain predates hybrid cars.


Do you think the acid rain in Ontario, caused by manufacturing hybrid batteries, is what ate the clear coat on the horizontal surfaces of a lot of 300As, including mine?

[Leadfoot281]

I think I found the problem. It's exactly as I originally thought.

If the latest, greatest, best of the best, electric cars can only muster a 300 mile range, no one is going to buy them or build them.

I doubt "big oil" is even going to waste their time trying to kill something like that. The American consumer will do it for them!

Being unable to sell a car with a 300 mile range and blaming "big oil" is akin to selling sushi at Lambeau Feild and blaming "big Bratwurst" for it's failure.

With that being said, I'll still "research" the "documentary" 'Who killed the electric car'. In fact, I just seen a good documentary on IFC. It was called "Reefer Madness". That was highly informative.

Also, if "doing your part for the environment" while sitting on leather seats doesn't strike you as ironic, nothing will. Only AlGores gigantic, out of control, pimped out, off the hook, mansion has more irony in it.

[duhtroll]

OK Einstein, how far can your MM go on a tank? 325 on a good day?

How many people drive more than 300 miles more than onceevery day?

The battery charge doesn't take all day, either You spend 6 hours driving the car, you're filling up and taking a piss. You're most likely getting something to eat, too. Where's the problem here?

I fail to see how you can criticize a car for "only" having a 300 mile range when you are driving a car that has an approximate range of 300 miles.

Oh yeah, and you AREN'T PAYING FOR GAS with the electric. That easily offsets the cost of the burger and fries you just ate Make sense yet?

And it you're going to be upset about leather seats, you'd better look up what goes into foam padding, first.

By the way, you're currently breathing and destroying millions of microorganisms. Shame on you. :rolleyes:




I think I found the problem. It's exactly as I originally thought.

If the latest, greatest, best of the best, electric cars can only muster a 300 mile range, no one is going to buy them or build them.

I doubt "big oil" is even going to waste their time trying to kill something like that. The American consumer will do it for them!

Being unable to sell a car with a 300 mile range and blaming "big oil" is akin to selling sushi at Lambeau Feild and blaming "big Bratwurst" for it's failure.

With that being said, I'll still "research" the "documentary" 'Who killed the electric car'. In fact, I just seen a good documentary on IFC. It was called "Reefer Madness". That was highly informative.

Also, if "doing your part for the environment" while sitting on leather seats doesn't strike you as ironic, nothing will. Only AlGores gigantic, out of control, pimped out, off the hook, mansion has more irony in it.

[RCSignals]

Do you think the acid rain in Ontario, caused by manufacturing hybrid batteries, is what ate the clear coat on the horizontal surfaces of a lot of 300As, including mine?

yes possibly, because Acid rain existed in Ontario when the Marauder was built and Hybrid cars predate the Marauder.

[duhtroll]

...and it was this one thing and one thing only that caused the acid rain on those particular days, just to ruin the MM.

Good thinkin' there. With that logic, Pres. Bush has a cabinet opening for you.


yes possibly, because Acid rain existed in Ontario when the Marauder was built and Hybrid cars predate the Marauder.

[Motorhead350]

I'm doing a report on this tomorrow for a class project. We'll see how Toyota and Hummer react to this. I also looked up additional info and this article doesn't sound like a load of crap to me.

Also the writer was actually talking about a Hummer H1, not the trendy little pieces.

[Aren Jay]

Add in the fact that the batteries do not work well in the cold and you have a Slug.

[Raudermaster]

H1 ftw. Arnold approves.

[SC Cheesehead]

OK Einstein, how far can your MM go on a tank? 325 on a good day?

How many people drive more than 300 miles more than onceevery day?

The battery charge doesn't take all day, either You spend 6 hours driving the car, you're filling up and taking a piss. You're most likely getting something to eat, too. Where's the problem here?

I fail to see how you can criticize a car for "only" having a 300 mile range when you are driving a car that has an approximate range of 300 miles.

Oh yeah, and you AREN'T PAYING FOR GAS with the electric. That easily offsets the cost of the burger and fries you just ate Make sense yet?

And it you're going to be upset about leather seats, you'd better look up what goes into foam padding, first.

By the way, you're currently breathing and destroying millions of microorganisms. Shame on you. :rolleyes:

So, where does the electricity come from? Unless you have a line on another source, (possibly solar) it's being generated by a coal or gas-fired power plant, or (gasp!) nuke plant. If you do a life cycle cost analysis on a gasoline vs. and electric or hybrid vehicle, I think you'll find the gas-powered vehicles come out on top unless mpg is real poor (< 10 mpg) and gas prices are real high (>$5.00 per gallon). Life cycle costing was the basis for the original Hummer vs. Prius comparison, and I think that basic model applies to just about any gas - electric/hybrid vehicle comparision.

I ran the numbers using $4.00 per gallon back in 2006 when my wife bought her Escape Hybrid, and at the end of the day, it made more sense economically to keep my Ranger p/u (21-24 mpg). But, she WANTED the Hybird, sooooo, we got the Hybrid.

Don't get me wrong, nice little vehicle, consistent 32-34 mpg, my wife is happy doing her part to "save the environment":rolleyes:, but I miss my pick-up, and there is no cost justification for owning the Hybrid.

SCCH

[sailsmen]

Stop with Logic and Facts.

Mother Earth is driven by emotion and what we have done to her is terrible.

When you drive a Hybred the positive energy waves sooth Mother Earth and that is what matters.

Lets not forget about the water shortage. The Earths surface is only 2/3 water. We are using it up. Everytime the Space Shuttle goes into space we are shipping billions of gallons of water into outer space. The Space Shuttle drags the water from Earth to space.

Stop using water now. Toilets by law flush with 1.6 gallons vs 3.2 gallons, just remember to cut your bowel movements in 1/2. If not you will require multiple flushes and use of cleaning products which are mostly water.

[shodude]

sailsmen. lol you just made my day. that was quite funny and the sad part that is how some libs feel.

[FastMerc]

Biofuels COULD BE a solution to gasoline. But...IT WILL NEVER become so.

:rolleyes:

KillJoyI totaly agree Why polotics and greed!!!

[duhtroll]

OK, since this thread has been resurrected, I'll ask you to go back and read the damn thing before continuing the rant. I'm not going to retype it all.

I find it absolutely amazing that people get so bent out of shape by trying to tell other people how to spend their own money.

Don't like a Prius? Don't friggin' drive one. Gas engines are here to stay for the near future, so you have nothing to worry about in your driving lifetime.

If there were one type of vehicle that was actually better at everything for everyone, there would only *be* one type of vehicle.

Gas prices *are* going to be "real high" as you put it. The hybrid is getting to be a really viable option for saving money.

Sniping at people for their choice of vehicle reminds me of getting teased for buying the "wrong" shoes in elementary school. I don't see Prius owners stirring the sh|t over here.


So, where does the electricity come from? Unless you have a line on another source, (possibly solar) it's being generated by a coal or gas-fired power plant, or (gasp!) nuke plant. If you do a life cycle cost analysis on a gasoline vs. and electric or hybrid vehicle, I think you'll find the gas-powered vehicles come out on top unless mpg is real poor (< 10 mpg) and gas prices are real high (>$5.00 per gallon). Life cycle costing was the basis for the original Hummer vs. Prius comparison, and I think that basic model applies to just about any gas - electric/hybrid vehicle comparision.

I ran the numbers using $4.00 per gallon back in 2006 when my wife bought her Escape Hybrid, and at the end of the day, it made more sense economically to keep my Ranger p/u (21-24 mpg). But, she WANTED the Hybird, sooooo, we got the Hybrid.

Don't get me wrong, nice little vehicle, consistent 32-34 mpg, my wife is happy doing her part to "save the environment":rolleyes:, but I miss my pick-up, and there is no cost justification for owning the Hybrid.

SCCH

[Richy04]

Wow,

How so many people know so much about nothing, and 5 pages worth of nothing. I own a hybrid and its saving me money every day.. I bought it when gas was 1.14 a gallon and enjoyed paying 10 bucks to fill it and drive it the 158 miles a day (for a few days) before having to fill it again. I've had it since 2002 and it now has 175k on it and until 3 weeks ago, I spent a total of 150 dollars in necessary repairs (beside tires, oil, etc.) .

I was also smart enough to amass a stockpile of parts while nobody needed anything for them. I recently replaced the transmission (had a bad bearing on the input shaft, made noise but no effect on driveability).

I think it paid for itself over and over again.. When gas was 1.14 a gallon, nobody wanted a hybrid, my luck would bring me one for half of the sticker price of 22k. The people that buy them now are fools, there is no savings in owning one now at their inflated cost, buy a Chevy Aveo etc. and get 40mpg and throw it away in a few years, thats the best deal you can get now.

[justbob]

One last fun fact for you: it takes five years to offset the premium price of a Prius. Meaning, you have to wait 60 months to save any money over a non-hybrid car because of lower gas expenses.

+1 My buddy bought a prius to drive 10 min. to work in and i proved to him the yrs it would take to offset the cost and he had nothing to say. If you buy one then you need to drive the wee out of it to recoupe your loss and it will still take a few yrs.<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

[Breadfan]

I don't see Prius owners stirring the sh|t over here.

While there may not be Prius drivers here poking at us, my experience is that the Prius drivers in this town become very self righteous. There are 6 Priae in our small parking lot here at work and so far 3 of the drivers have vocally chastized my choice of vehicles (the Marauder).

Everyone around here buy's a Prius and then acts like they're saving the environment while tossing their foam starbucks cups in the trash and turning their noses up at regular cars. Heck, I can't even tell you the last time I saw a Prius hauling cans to be recylced, or with potted trees in the back hatch going to a tree planting on Arbor Day. For many of them, it's like fairweather evironmentalism. Anyway I've hauled lots of recylcing material in my folks 12mpg F250 V10. For that matter I could probably haul 10 Priae's worth of hybrid batteries to the battery recylcing facility.

And, when they're not going on about the hybrid part, they go on about how it's a Toyota and how awesome are they for having a Toyota, unlike a crappy American car. I've had people laugh at my American car and go "why didn't you buy a Toyota?" WTF?

So from what I've seen the Prius drivers are the ones who need to respect what other people drive.

In my eyes hybrid technology is a good thing, and a good step forward. For tough commutes, a comfortable "appliance" type vehicle that gets exceptional gas mileage isn't such a bad thing. While I may not particuarly want one at this point in time, I can see the logic and desire to have a vehicle that makes going somewhere you don't want to go everyday cost you less. From a technology standpoint it's a great step forward. While as a car guy I feel we NEED 6mpg Chevelles and big block Mustangs, we don't need 6 million of them on the raods every morning. Let the non car people drive the hybrids, but lets let the car guys have their fun. ;)

Of course the argument can be made that from a money perspective there's better ways to get there on the cheap, and if you're willing to sacrifice "cool factor" and hop on the Priae bandwagon, a DIY'er or car-guy may be equally willing to drive something older that may need a few wrenches spun at it but still get good mileage and inital cost of 1/10th that of a hybrid.

So to each his own but my experience is that most Priae drivers don't live by that so in the meantime let's make fun of them. :lol:

[justbob]

Pass em fully hammered every time i see one and the male of the family and the kids drool, so my money is on someone else making the decisions just like my mustang lover toyota driving neighbor!

[Joe Walsh]

So to each his own but my experience is that most Priae drivers don't live by that so in the meantime let's make fun of them. :lol:


I commute on I-70 everyday and I can't tell you the number of Prius that go by me at 80+ mph!

At that speed you are not using any electric power...just all gasoline engine.
AND you are not saving much gas at that speed.

Way to save gas and the environment!

:shake:

[ckadiddle]

Wow,

How so many people know so much about nothing, and 5 pages worth of nothing. I own a hybrid and its saving me money every day.. I bought it when gas was 1.14 a gallon and enjoyed paying 10 bucks to fill it and drive it the 158 miles a day (for a few days) before having to fill it again. I've had it since 2002 and it now has 175k on it and until 3 weeks ago, I spent a total of 150 dollars in necessary repairs (beside tires, oil, etc.) .

I was also smart enough to amass a stockpile of parts while nobody needed anything for them. I recently replaced the transmission (had a bad bearing on the input shaft, made noise but no effect on driveability).

I think it paid for itself over and over again.. When gas was 1.14 a gallon, nobody wanted a hybrid, my luck would bring me one for half of the sticker price of 22k. The people that buy them now are fools, there is no savings in owning one now at their inflated cost, buy a Chevy Aveo etc. and get 40mpg and throw it away in a few years, thats the best deal you can get now.
You've hit the nail on the head Richy!

Conversely, the next six months to a year will be a GREAT time to buy a Marauder.
:banana2:

[dreydin]

I sort of always wanted an Insight. Except for their reputation as a Winter car (9 months of it here). Really hackable, and would be cool to try out my own mods. Solar charging, that sort of thing.

I always liked hippies too. They always know where to get the best weed.

How about my favourite? The Smart car. Coming next year to the US too!

A few modded models to choose from!


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v621/wdhiii/smartaudi.jpg

Smart Audi

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v621/wdhiii/Smartferrari.jpg

Smart Ferrari

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v621/wdhiii/Smartlambo.jpg

Smart Lambo

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v621/wdhiii/smartporshe.jpg

Smart Porsche

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v621/wdhiii/smartporshetarga.jpg

Smart Porsche Targa

And MY favorite...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v621/wdhiii/Smartvette.jpg

Smart Vette.

;)
:lol:
:lol:
:lol: