Cruztaker's Engine Failure Explained...

[Zack]

The disassembly started out rather uneventful..
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showcase/files/4/0/4/DSC02644.JPG

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showcase/files/4/0/4/DSC02642.JPG

Then it got interesting...
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showcase/files/4/0/4/DSC02649.JPG
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showcase/files/4/0/4/DSC02650.JPG

Did everyone see that piston? (#3 cylinder, passenger side)
White top pistons means a LEAN condition and Detonation.
And what happens to these engines when detonation occurs?
Look here....
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showcase/files/4/0/4/DSC02652.JPG
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showcase/files/4/0/4/DSC02654.JPG
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showcase/files/4/0/4/DSC02655.JPG
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showcase/files/4/0/4/DSC02653.JPG

I cant explain why this cylinder went lean because the others are fine. Could be luck of the draw, could be an injector that failed momentarily, god knows what.
Point is, you need to keep an ear open for pinging, or you will end up like this and stuck with a repair bill in the thousands.
No rod or piston is broken, but the engine is still locked up from all the debris in the bearings. I thought it would free up when I took the oil pump off, but I was mistaken.

Id like to commend Barry for how well he maintained his engine, it looked brand new inside.
Remember that old argument we all had about 6 months ago, here's a refresher pic so everyone can compare apples to apples...
Barry:
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showcase/files/4/0/4/DSC02646.JPG
Other engine:
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showcase/files/4/0/4/DSC02324.JPG

Yeah, I was out picking a fight.... whateva'.

[Meteorite]

So, it went down in this order?

Detonation causes transient to cranktrain.

Gerotor pump teeth crack.

Oil pressure goes away.

Main bearings sieze.

It's a sad story.:(

[Zack]

So, it went down in this order?

Detonation causes transient to cranktrain.

Gerotor pump teeth crack.

Oil pressure goes away.

Main bearings sieze.

It's a sad story.:(

And it can happen in under 30 secoonds.

[Glenn]

Great explaination and pictures on the engine failure. As an extra safety measure against detonation, I always run 101 octane gas at the track. I wonder if Barry was running 93 or 101 gas? Also, I guess the stock N/A knock sensor is just not good enough to prevent this type of damage.

I notice some people stay with the AL block and others go with the iron block. What are your comments on AL vs. FE.

Thanks,

Glenn

[Zack]

Great explaination and pictures on the engine failure. As an extra safety measure against detonation, I always run 101 octane gas at the track. I wonder if Barry was running 93 or 101 gas? Also, I guess the stock N/A knock sensor is just not good enough to prevent this type of damage.

I notice some people stay with the AL block and others go with the iron block. What are your comments on AL vs. FE.

Thanks,

Glenn


Iron is cheaper and stronger.
Aluminum costs way more to machine, thats why its smarter to go with an iron block. Plus the Iron blocks dont have torque to yield main bolts, which also means $$$ savings.

[MERCMAN]

Is this something caused by the bottle or just something that the nitrous brought about sooner?

[mpearce]

Id like to commend Barry for how well he maintained his engine, it looked brand new inside.

Translation?

How do you maintain an engine on the inside?

Good gas? Good tuning? Frequent oil changes? Anything else?

I know Barry almost always ran high octane fuel, sometimes leaded fuel.

What was it that made Barry's motor cleaner on the inside?

I'm asking because I honestly don't know the answer.

If someone does, please explain.

[RCSignals]

Id like to commend Barry for how well he maintained his engine, it looked brand new inside.



Translation?

How do you maintain an engine on the inside?

Good gas? Good tuning? Frequent oil changes? Anything else?

I know Barry almost always ran high octane fuel, sometimes leaded fuel.

What was it that made Barry's motor cleaner on the inside?

I'm asking because I honestly don't know the answer.

If someone does, please explain.


It would have to be frequent oil changes.

[MACFORD88]

One Of My Buddys Is Doing A Short Block At The Mercury Dealer He Works At For The Same Thing.

[Zack]

It would have to be frequent oil changes.

Thats correct.
Barry changes his oil every 2500-3000.
The other engine I posted pictures of had it changed every 5000 since it was new. Not smart

[CRUZTAKER]

And it can happen in under 30 secoonds.
Actually 12.71 :cool4:


I wonder if Barry was running 93 or 101 gas? Also, I guess the stock N/A knock sensor is just not good enough to prevent this type of damage.

100 pump unleaded from Speedway (a local fuel mart).



Barry changes his oil every 2500-3000.....
You forgot a zero.:banned:

[Paul]

Thank you man. This is very helpful for a newbie like me. :bows:

[Local Boy]

WOW! Awesome job in showing how it happens! Thanks Zack. ALOHA

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

Thanks for the info. So much for these engines going 300K miles. Hopefully mine holds up!

[rayjay]

Zack, other than the lean condition, could the under drive pullies have caused the oil pump to croak? Seems I've read on here a few posts where the UDPs have caused this.

[Zack]

Zack, other than the lean condition, could the under drive pullies have caused the oil pump to croak? Seems I've read on here a few posts where the UDPs have caused this.

Not in this case. They were properly installed thousands of miles ago.
And this set of UDP's have the harmonic balancer on it, unlike the sets that were known to cause such failures.

[CRUZTAKER]

The pullies have been on since Feb '03.
I'm thinking bogus gas or plain old destiny.:rolleyes:

So Zack...how much more is this motor going to weigh?

[KillJoy]

The pullies have been on since Feb '03.
I'm thinking bogus gas or plain old destiny.:rolleyes:

So Zack...how much more is this motor going to weigh?


I hate when I get bad gas...

:flamer:

:D

KillJoy

[Zack]

The pullies have been on since Feb '03.
I'm thinking bogus gas or plain old destiny.:rolleyes:

So Zack...how much more is this motor going to weigh?

The block weighs 40 or so more pounds and the steel crank and rods probably weigh an extra 10 or so (im guessing )
Nothing removing your spare tire wont fix :D
EDIT: Forgot the bottle was there!

[CRUZTAKER]

I hate when I get bad gas...

:flamer:

:D

KillJoy

As does everyone within your vicinity. :puke:

[Ken]

Originally Posted by KillJoy http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?p=505095#post50 5095)
I hate when I get bad gas...

:flamer:

:D

KillJoy

As does everyone within your vicinity. :puke:Stay away from the fire too!
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showcase/files/2/5/4/4/CIMG1359Medium.JPG

Ken

[RCSignals]

You forgot a zero.:banned:

so you've really only changed your oil once?

[CRUZTAKER]

No...Atleast 3 times.:D

[CRUZTAKER]

Seriously...when the car was in the break in period and up to around 10k or so, I used Motorcraft 5w20 and changed it every 3k. I started modding at that point and moved to Royal Purple 5w30 for two 5k intervals (5w20 was unavailable), and this last change before the blow was RP 5w20.

The car sits Nov thru Mar, and I always changed the oil before storage. Last year was the first winter I did not. I got 3,100 miles into that oil change dated Nov. 2005.

The car still sits around 30k on the odo or so. Perhaps a bit more. I just don't drive it too often. I did however drive it hard and rough everytime I had it on the road.

As far as fuel. I was very good about using only Sunoco 94. This, unless I was traveling and UTL this choice, I used 90% of the time. I have used well over 100 gallons of 100 octane, and lots of Leaded 112+.

Over all, aside from that ^^^, and the occational windex and armor-all to the block, that's all I used to do.

[merc]

I am following this thread closely. I have a cobra short block and thanks to Zack I will be ordering the flexplate Monday. Zack, I am still thinking of going with flat head Manley pistons because I am boring the motor .20. It should be very close to stock compression. What pistons and rings are you using in your build up.

[Zack]

I am following this thread closely. I have a cobra short block and thanks to Zack I will be order the flexplate Monday. Zack, I am still thinking of going with flat head Manley pistons because I am boring the motor .20. It should be very close to stock compression. What pistons and rings are you using in your build up.

You cant go wrong with Diamond pistons, thats what Barry is getting in his engine.
I also have them in the KB car.
They are dead quiet.

[JonW]

Seriously...when the car was in the break in period and up to around 10k or so, I used Motorcraft 5w20 and changed it every 3k. I started modding at that point and moved to Royal Purple 5w30 for two 5k intervals (5w20 was unavailable), and this last change before the blow was RP 5w20.

The car sits Nov thru Mar, and I always changed the oil before storage. Last year was the first winter I did not. I got 3,100 miles into that oil change dated Nov. 2005.



Any chance the RP contributed to the engine failure?

[CRUZTAKER]

Any chance the RP contributed to the engine failure?

Unlikely.

Detonation caused the failure.

I feel that the internal parts offered to us in a cobra suit are just not adequate over time once modified.

[DEFYANT]

Barry,
Were you using the Nitrous when she blew?

How many bottles did you make it through before this happend?

Who tuned it?

Yo Zach, was the "other engine" running before you disassembled it? Since when does the carbon on the piston suggest proper / improper oil change maintenance? I thought the surface condition of the piston indicated proper fuel mixture. Sludge in the heads, oil pan, journals, etc would indicate poor oil maintenace.

Is it possible the #3 piston is showing lean because of the fogger style nitrous kit Barry used? Perhaps this cylinder received too much or not enough juice / fuel ratio?

[CRUZTAKER]

Barry,
Were you using the Nitrous when she blew?

How many bottles did you make it through before this happend?

Who tuned it?




I have used the NOS a bit before MV-III. Quite a bit actually, and frequently around town on weekends.

I used it the weekend before...on the way to the track, and three runs before the most uneventfull, and solemn death on the return lanes.

Lidio did the tune, and I had always felt it was a bit too conservative. He was quite carefull with the tune in my opinion. I always wanted less timing taken out, but he assured me, this tune was appropriate.


Zack will have to field the rest of the questions.

[CRUZTAKER]

Originally Posted by KillJoy http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?p=505095#post50 5095)
I hate when I get bad gas...

:flamer:

:D

KillJoy
Stay away from the fire too!
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showcase/files/2/5/4/4/CIMG1359Medium.JPG

Ken


Damn Ken...atleast post the picture 1 minute prior to this one where Stevo is completely engulfed in flame!

[Ken]

Damn Ken...atleast post the picture 1 minute prior to this one where Stevo is completely engulfed in flame!That's the one that I wanted! Just couldn't find it!

Ken

[Zack]

Barry,
Yo Zach, was the "other engine" running before you disassembled it? Since when does the carbon on the piston suggest proper / improper oil change maintenance? I thought the surface condition of the piston indicated proper fuel mixture. Sludge in the heads, oil pan, journals, etc would indicate poor oil maintenace.


I drove the other engine 11 hours straight at 80mph right into the garage where I pulled it out and disassembled it.

There is no comparing these 2 engines from a maintenance standpoint.
One was maintained, one was not, and it was evident throughout both engines, not just the piston tops.

End of discussion :burnout:

[sailsmen]

Thanks for sharing this with us. W/ 86K & S/C I am on borrowed time.

was the other engine S/C?

[GreekGod]

Were the pump gears OEM powered metal? I think I read they are weak/susceptible to detonation, and billet replacements are recommended.

[CRUZTAKER]

The internals were ALL stock as from the day I got it.

And yes, the other car was s/c'd.