Trilogy vs. F.I.T. vs. Vortech (Reinhart) Superchargers

[Professor]

Okay .... without flaming, I want to hear your opinions on the pros and cons of each of these kits. It seems to me that many on the site favor the trilogy product (and it looks very different from the other two). Personally, I think the Vortech is the best looking of the three ... but looks aren't everything.

Which one is the most engine friendly (i.e., which one will be most friendly to a daily driver and least likely to blow my engine up.

[RCSignals]

So you are weakening on the supercharger install idea?

[Smokie]

All 3 will make your car wicked fast, just go to the timeslip page and see what they can do. All 3 can blow your engine if the tuning is wrong.

You want opinions, ok. I prefer Trilogy for it's looks, perfect manners when not racing, proven very reliable and Jerry Barnes remarkable customer service. Price is not it's most attractive feature but I bought what I wanted and am very happy with results.

[fastblackmerc]

Trilogy gives you a "stock" look and lots of low end torque

FIT, Vortec, Reinhart et all gives you a higher top end and doesn't look stock.

I'd call Jerry Barnes, Dennis Reinhart and Greg(?) at FIT and talk to them.

[RCSignals]

I think they are all pretty much proven as daily drivers, and there is potential for any to blow your engine up. you can do that though without a supercharger.

I chose a Trilogy because they are well proven, (there are now 160 of them out there) and look OEM. (It would have been the OEM st up if Ford had approved the S/C Marauder programme)

Trilogy also has a Twin Screw project specific to the Marauder due very soon for release. August I think.

Some people like the centrifugal S/C, and they are popular with the Mustang racers. Vortech is what Kenny Brown used for his version Marauders.

[sailsmen]

I drive my car everyday, 20K per year with 40-50 passes down the 1,320 per year.

I like the flexibility of the centrfiugal, I will be upgrading to a bigger blower.

The mantra is Roots down low and cent up high. Real life experience and the time slips show that is not the case as how they actually drive. They are amazingly close.

I know a member that put a cent on at 80K and now has 140K.

Neither his nor mine burn a drop of oil.

I had my car dynoed 1 year and 20K apart. Within 3 HP!

The only strong statement I can make is to S/C your car. Don't wait do it now.

[Marauderman]

Trilogy gives you a "stock" look and lots of low end torque

FIT, Vortec, Reinhart et all gives you a higher top end and doesn't look stock.

I'd call Jerry Barnes, Dennis Reinhart and Greg(?) at FIT and talk to them.

Dang !--Hey fastblackmerc-------ya think the Professor is pushing it a bit !!!

Either I am gonna give him my keys to drive or you gonna have to buy that Tri thingy.........so the Profess can decide...............whata ya think?????

[DEFYANT]

My choice is obvious.

I wanted more torque and the OEM look. The only con to the Trilogy was the high price. But it was well worth it!

[Motorhead350]

When I get my F.I.T. bolted on I'll let you know how much I like it. :D

[jdando]

Trilogy kit is very well engineered. The installation manual is great (140 pages), very complete.

Mine is a daily driver here in MN. It starts everytime from -18F to 105F. I have done 4 driving schools at BIR with it, probably close to 900 track miles.

When you open the hood, it looks factory. Everything looks right in place.

jeremy

[MarauderTJA]

I have had two Prochargers for my 04 Marauder from F.I.T. The first was a P1SC, 2 core intercooler, making 12 lbs boost. Drove the car with this set up for 15K miles. Car ran consistant 12.3 and 12.4 ets in the hot Florida weather. Forged the engine, upgraded to a D1SC, 3 core intercooler, now making 18 lbs boost. Still drive the car every day when I am home. On March 10, 07 I drove it 93 miles one way to Bradenton for the NMRA Spring Break Shootout. Let air out of my Nitto DR's, ran a best of 11.3 @ 119.93 MPH. Put air back in the tires and drove it home. Car is 100% like it came off the showroom floor, other than the upgraded drive train mods. Love my Procharger Marauder:D.

[Badger]

I went with the Trilogy due to the number of systems fielded and the positive reviews. Additionally I did not want to mess with a gear change to get into the power band sooner as with a cent. Like the drivability and gas millage when I'm off boost around town too.

[O's Fan Rich]

I looked at Gil's (ggt4) Procharger at Stafford and he did a real nice job with that install. He got around an issue I had with the way the intercooler pipes on a centrifical setup cause a loss of ground clearance.

Either setup will do you right. The procharger does not have the need to supply an oil drainback to the pan, The Vortech has a large selection of upgrades ( DR offers a air to air or air to water intercooler setup too) and Trilogy offers you a factory type look and many other nice things.
I went Trilogy, but would go with any of the kits as they all make the MM a much better overall experience.

One point to add, if you do this s/c'ing stuff, make sure you take the car to a reputable tuner after you get it installed. It'll go a long way to getting your car setup just right.

[knine]

Is this something new? I haven't seen a thread with a comparision discussion...........(today).

[Mike Poore]

Kudos to Rich Long for a thoughtful unbiased response. :trophy1:

In watching the supercharger discussions for the past several years, it seems most folks like whatever power adder they chose to spend their money on, or not. And why not? Superchargers are a substantial investment and few car owners spend the cash for one make of blower and then take it off and try another brand. They've done their homework, spent their money, and feel they've made the best choice (for them) and support the decision. It's not like trying different air cleaners y'know.

By the tone of the posts on this thread, it seems we've grown up, and mellowed somewhat, not to mention a noticeable civility. I applaud you all. :)

Hey Gordon? :neener:

[MarauderTJA]

To mention once again a VERY IMPORTANT point on what Rich said. Make sure to get your car properly tunedregardless of the kit you decide to go with. AND use a tuner who is knows what he is doing on the dyno. The fastest way to grenade your engine with the added power the S/C give you is not having a proper tune.

[blackf0rk]

The kits here have all proven that they're worthy of being purchased. So it all comes down to what you want. As people have posted here before: Do you want a stock looking kit? Or do you like the (for a lack of a better word) "tuner" look? Also, where do you want the majority of your power?

The most important thing to keep in mind though, is the tune. If you have a good tune, then the above items are all you have to decide on.

[Professor]

I haven't caved on the supercharger .... yet. However, my Dad's been harassing me about running his 2006 Goat with the Marauder (a race he knows he will win easily right now). So it is tempting to put in a s/c and blow the doors off of his Grand Am on steroids. :D

It sounds like I would lean towards trilogy, for one simple reason: I like tire spinning torque down low. I don't want to have to get up to "ludicrous speed" (yes ... I made a Spaceballs reference) to experience the boost.

Which one is the least noisy? Do roots types make more noise than centrifugals or vice versa?

Thanks for keeping this thread civil. Judging from what I have read in the archives on this subject, it has been touchy in the past.

I still may stay n/a .... but it doesn't hurt to make an informed decision.

[HwyCruiser]

I think one of the biggest differences is whether you want the competition know that you're blown or not. The roots blower is quiet at idle whereas you can't miss the distinctive whistle and gear noise of a centrifugal. The Procharger definitely benefits from an airbox to quite it down, a bit but the guy next lane over has to be either deaf or dumb not to know you're packing. I just don't get challenged often - except for cocky Porsche and Corvette drivers ;).

As far as power and driveability, all of the kits are nice right out of the box. Where the roots and centrifugals differ (low end tq vs. high end hp), other mods such as torque converters, gears, pulley sizes, exhaust, tuning, etc., can benefit all setups and make it anyone's guess on race day. An owner of a comparably modded Trilogy car and I raced all day long and the win came down to who didn't blow the launch. All three of the kits will put a smile on your face and it's easy enough to get more out of them than the stock block is capable of handling.

If you want to posture and brag after the purchase just make sure your butt is in the staging lanes. That's all I ask.

[Bluerauder]

Which one is the least noisy? Do roots types make more noise than centrifugals or vice versa?
The Trilogy (roots S/C) has a whine; but only when in boost. The Vortec and Procharger (centrifugal) have a low whistle even at idle. All sound terrifically mean when in full boost .... that's the point ain't it. :D

The Trilogy seems more "stealthy" to me because it sounds stock until green flag waves. I think it is a bit more difficult to catch a potential opponent off guard with the centrifugal because of the constant whistle. Its a matter of preference.

Either way, all three move the 4,200 pound MM Beast at Ludicrous Speed.

Of course, I am not an S/C owner .... just an observer.

[tmac1337]

All of this has been hashed out in old threads, these questions are not new, neither are the answers.

As far as the torque concern, that roots will have more low end torque on the Marauders than the Centrifugals (Former Sales Pitch), it has been proven false by multiple cars.

Any of the kits are a great choice for the Marauder and will make significant power over stock, the choice is yours.

[sailsmen]

"It sounds like I would lean towards trilogy, for one simple reason: I like tire spinning torque down low. I don't want to have to get up to "ludicrous speed" (yes ... I made a Spaceballs reference) to experience the boost."

I switched to MT ET from DR because at the track in cool weather they would not hook even on the street flooring from 25mph would result in a fish tail and hitting the rev limiter.

[BAD MERC]

I cannot tell all of you how nice it was to read a thread and see all mature answers. Whether you like blowers or turbos. Stock wheels or custom. Stock paint or fluorescent polka-dots. We all share the interest in a unique car and I am not siding with either side of the fence. My drivetrain is stock - but I buy raffle-tickets to whatever is being raffled.

[rumble]

Well, as you can see from these posts, their is no "buyer's remorse"
after a S/C install. The reason I went with a Trilogy is, well that was
my personal preference. With the air to air cents starting at 4K+
up to the Trilogy at 6K you have a wide number of choices. Their is no
wrong choice.

Go for it :beer:

[RCSignals]

................

Which one is the least noisy? Do roots types make more noise than centrifugals or vice versa?
..........................

i'm going to take a guess the twin screw from Trilogy will be the least noisy



I still may stay n/a .... but it doesn't hurt to make an informed decision.

There is a lot you can do and stay N/A. Ask Barry (Cruztaker)

[Bradley G]

I took the positive displacement route, I am far from the fastest, 'cept for the smile! :D
You need to sample the goods prior to purchace.
How come the need for a dynotune?
If you are ok with, a safe "one size fits all"

[Aren Jay]

why doesn't Trilogy have its own sub forum? Or did I miss it?

[O's Fan Rich]

Oh..... mmmmmyyyyyy....:alone:

I'll leave that answer to the better informed... Zack? You got this one?:P

[RCSignals]

why doesn't Trilogy have its own sub forum? Or did I miss it?

It's there.....in the archives

[MarauderTJA]

Twin screw S/C's are great. But, I would not put one on a stock motor. With the boost and internal pressure it creates I would only (personal opinion) use one on a built motor...My:twocents:.

Zack, do you agree?

[RCSignals]

Twin screw S/C's are great. But, I would not put one on a stock motor. With the boost and internal pressure it creates I would only (personal opinion) use one on a built motor...My:twocents:.

Zack, do you agree?

Have there been problems caused by the Kenne Bell twin screw on stock Mach 1 Mustangs?

[MarauderTJA]

I know of two Mach 1's that lost their motors with twin screw KB blowers and one 03 Cobra with a Wipple. All of them were really hard on their cars. Those motors do not have forged bottom ends (other than the Corba) like our cars. Obviously the size of the pulley and amount of boost may have been a factor as well as possibly a bad tune.

Jerry's car lost a head gasket last year at SSHS6 on a great run, buit that was a proto type blower. I am sure knowing him, that he will have things well squared away prior to the release of his Trilogy twin screw along with a proper tune.

[Aren Jay]

oh Why is it in the archives when the other SC makers have their own active forums?

[Rider90]

oh Why is it in the archives when the other SC makers have their own active forums?
Trilogy packed up from this website and moved on due to management reasons over on this side.

[MarauderMarc]

For the last time...YOU HAVE JUST AS MUCH LOW END WITH A CENTRIFICAL AS WITH A ROOTS, TWINSCREW, ECT.

Here is a video of Greggash with the base Reinhart Vortech Kit....

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k115/MarauderMarc/th_02.jpg (http://s86.photobucket.com/albums/k115/MarauderMarc/?action=view&current=02.flv)


This is a dead punch. Do you see that tire shredding and smoking going on? With a centrifical you also have the ease of being able to put it on and remove it within a few hours. With the Trilogy it takes 3 guys a whole day to do it. And if you ever had to remove it, youre screwed where with a centrifical you can take it off and drive it N/A within a few hours. You would be able to sell a centrifical setup pretty quick to not only Marauder guys, but Mustang, Chevy, Pontiac people as well because the headunits and intercoolers fit on a variety of other makes and models of cars, trucks and even BOATS!! With the trilogy, youd HAVE to sell it to a Marauder guy. Mustang guys would rather have a KB or a whipple when it comes to a positive displacement blower. Base Trilogy kit will net you under 400rwhp whereas a centrifical will give you over 440 at the tire. Trilogy is @ 6000.00 plus 1000.00+ for install and another 200.00 or so to dyno tune. So @ 7200.00 minimum. Centrifical is @ 4500.00. Install @ 6-800.00 and 200.00 for Dyno tune. 5500.00 total at the most......

Not trying to squash Trilogy. I am just giving you my feelings. That is why I bought a FIT kit.....


If you just want to beat him down the track, why not just add a lil shot of nitrous??? You could do all of that for @ 1000.00 and sell it when you were done proving your point.

[MarauderTJA]

For the last time...YOU HAVE JUST AS MUCH LOW END WITH A CENTRIFICAL AS WITH A ROOTS, TWINSCREW, ECT.

Here is a video of Greggash with the base Reinhart Vortech Kit....

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k115/MarauderMarc/th_02.jpg (http://s86.photobucket.com/albums/k115/MarauderMarc/?action=view&current=02.flv)


This is a dead punch. Do you see that tire shredding and smoking going on? With a centrifical you also have the ease of being able to put it on and remove it within a few hours. With the Trilogy it takes 3 guys a whole day to do it. And if you ever had to remove it, youre screwed where with a centrifical you can take it off and drive it N/A within a few hours. You would be able to sell a centrifical setup pretty quick to not only Marauder guys, but Mustang, Chevy, Pontiac people as well because the headunits and intercoolers fit on a variety of other makes and models of cars, trucks and even BOATS!! With the trilogy, youd HAVE to sell it to a Marauder guy. Mustang guys would rather have a KB or a whipple when it comes to a positive displacement blower. Base Trilogy kit will net you under 400rwhp whereas a centrifical will give you over 440 at the tire. Trilogy is @ 6000.00 plus 1000.00+ for install and another 200.00 or so to dyno tune. So @ 7200.00 minimum. Centrifical is @ 4500.00. Install @ 6-800.00 and 200.00 for Dyno tune. 5500.00 total at the most......

Not trying to squash Trilogy. I am just giving you my feelings. That is why I bought a FIT kit.....


If you just want to beat him down the track, why not just add a lil shot of nitrous??? You could do all of that for @ 1000.00 and sell it when you were done proving your point.

Come now Marc, be nice now:nono: Don't start:lol:

[MarauderMarc]

Come now Marc, be nice now:nono: Don't start:lol:


Awww man......


Again, I want to stress that I was in no way trying to bash Trilogy or start a war. I was just giving my personal opinion. Trilogy offers a nice kit and I have seen them do well on the Marauders. I just personally prefer the centrifical setup because of the results I have seen them produce. Which reminds me....you in the 10's yet with your Procharger, Tom?

[MarauderTJA]

Awww man......


Again, I want to stress that I was in no way trying to bash Trilogy or start a war. I was just giving my personal opinion. Trilogy offers a nice kit and I have seen them do well on the Marauders. I just personally prefer the centrifical setup because of the results I have seen them produce. Which reminds me....you in the 10's yet with your Procharger, Tom?

Not yet Marc:shake:. Have to wait for the fall for the cooler weather. SSHS7 in November is the current plan. Then the killer C-16 race tune with a 100 shot. Although maybe at Bradenton in October at a test n tune:confused: Still #3 on the timeslip page. I'm happy. With the race tune, the 10's, no problemo bro:D. And yeah, go :whistle:

[tmac1337]

Where you been Marc?

Come hang out with us at Towers some time.

[MarauderMarc]

Where you been Marc?

Come hang out with us at Towers some time.

Been pretty busy with work and all, but things are good. Ill have to come to the Towers here soon, when is the next monthly meet?

[tmac1337]

Been pretty busy with work and all, but things are good. Ill have to come to the Towers here soon, when is the next monthly meet?

Zoltans out of town, but he usually puts out the bat signal and everyone shows up. We have a great bunch of guys come to the meets....no matter which blower you have on your car, everyone is welcome.

[Joe Walsh]

For the last time...YOU HAVE JUST AS MUCH LOW END WITH A CENTRIFICAL AS WITH A ROOTS, TWINSCREW, ECT.

THAT IS NOT TRUE!

Low end torque is a function of cubic inches and/or boost at low rpm. (ignoring any compression ratio or cam timing discussions)

Centrifugal S/Cs produce a linear and rising boost curve as a function of rpm.
More rpm = more boost.
You do NOT get 10 psi boost at 2500 rpm with a 10 psi centrifugal S/C kit.
You get that 10 psi at 6000 rpm, at 2500 rpm you get @ 2-3 psi boost.

A Roots blower produces a flat and slightly falling boost curve as a function of rpm.
You get all 10 psi at 2500 rpm and slightly less as you approach 6000 rpm.

A Twin screw produces a flat and slightly rising boost curve as a function of rpm.
You get 8-9 psi at 2500 rpm and slightly more as you approach 6000 rpm.

A 10 psi Roots/Twin Screw S/C kit WILL make more low end torque (hence HP) than a 10 psi Centrifugal S/C kit.

A 10 psi Centrifugal S/C kit WILL make more high end torque (hence HP) than a 10 psi Roots S/C kit.

A Centrifugal S/C will still waste the tires from a dead punch, especially if you have a high stall convertor....
but that doesn't mean that it is making just as much low end torque as a Roots/Twin screw S/C.





This is a dead punch. Do you see that tire shredding and smoking going on? With a centrifical you also have the ease of being able to put it on and remove it within a few hours. With the Trilogy it takes 3 guys a whole day to do it. And if you ever had to remove it, youre screwed where with a centrifical you can take it off and drive it N/A within a few hours. You would be able to sell a centrifical setup pretty quick to not only Marauder guys, but Mustang, Chevy, Pontiac people as well because the headunits and intercoolers fit on a variety of other makes and models of cars, trucks and even BOATS!! With the trilogy, youd HAVE to sell it to a Marauder guy. Mustang guys would rather have a KB or a whipple when it comes to a positive displacement blower. Base Trilogy kit will net you under 400rwhp whereas a centrifical will give you over 440 at the tire. Trilogy is @ 6000.00 plus 1000.00+ for install and another 200.00 or so to dyno tune. So @ 7200.00 minimum. Centrifical is @ 4500.00. Install @ 6-800.00 and 200.00 for Dyno tune. 5500.00 total at the most......

Not trying to squash Trilogy. I am just giving you my feelings. That is why I bought a FIT kit......

> Why buy a S/C kit based on the removal of said kit?

> Trilogy kit is a more expensive, but you are still talking about dropping $5,500 + for ANY S/C kit.

I don't own a Trilogy kit, I own an F.I.T. kit, but lets be honest in our S/C discussions.

[MarauderMarc]

THAT IS NOT TRUE!

Low end torque is a function of cubic inches and/or boost at low rpm. (ignoring any compression ratio or cam timing discussions)

Centrifugal S/Cs produce a linear and rising boost curve as a function of rpm.
More rpm = more boost.
You do NOT get 10 psi boost at 2500 rpm with a 10 psi centrifugal S/C kit.
You get that 10 psi at 6000 rpm, at 2500 rpm you get @ 2-3 psi boost.

A Roots blower produces a flat and slightly falling boost curve as a function of rpm.
You get all 10 psi at 2500 rpm and slightly less as you approach 6000 rpm.

A Twin screw produces a flat and slightly rising boost curve as a function of rpm.
You get 8-9 psi at 2500 rpm and slightly more as you approach 6000 rpm.

A 10 psi Roots/Twin Screw S/C kit WILL make more low end torque (hence HP) than a 10 psi Centrifugal S/C kit.

A 10 psi Centrifugal S/C kit WILL make more high end torque (hence HP) than a 10 psi Roots S/C kit.

A Centrifugal S/C will still waste the tires from a dead punch, especially if you have a high stall convertor....
but that doesn't mean that it is making just as much low end torque as a Roots/Twin screw S/C.






> Why buy a S/C kit based on the removal of said kit?

> Trilogy kit is a more expensive, but you are still talking about dropping $5,500 + for ANY S/C kit.

I don't own a Trilogy kit, I own an F.I.T. kit, but lets be honest in our S/C discussions.

Whatever. The point is there is alot of torque down low as the video clearly displayed. Whats wrong with the unit being easy to remove? For some of us this is our daily driver. If the Trilogy went south, youd be screwed for a while, where you could take off even a few pieces of the centrifical and run fine n/a. Im sure that is a factor that people could base a decision on.

As I said, both kits are great. IT IS IN MY OPINION that centrifical blowers offer better value for your money, especially on a Marauder.

I should have worded the low end torque subject differently. My point is that some people make it sound like centrificals are dogs aff of the line. Not true. We have traction problems coming out of the hole just as much as the positive displacement guys.

Every other supercharger thread has gone south on here. The man asked for opinions and we are giving them, lets leave it at that.

[DEFYANT]

Been pretty busy with work and all, but things are good. Ill have to come to the Towers here soon, when is the next monthly meet?


Watch out for car jackers. Keep your doors locked.

[BADMERC]

Who is Zack?

[magindat]

Ok, Professor. You got us started (again).

1st off, you can smoke a Goat with a well setup NA car. (especially on the street). I out-launched, then caught a six speed Sunday (poor guy didn't know what to do!).

2nd, if you want a charger, there's no better way to choose than to immerse yourself in a community of owners of different types who will actually let you DRIVE their cars. Try THAT in any other 'club'.

3rd, it's a big investment. Take it seriously. You won't find an 'answer' here. You must formulate your OWN answer (see 2nd).

4th, I like 'em all. I've worked on 'em all to some degree or another. Every one is awesome. Every one has a compromise somewhere. You must weigh the pros and cons based on YOUR driving habits, ability to maintain, climate, budget, mechanical skill, tuner availability, etc.

Last but not least, every vendor of Marauder S/C's is ONE OF US! We are so lucky to be buying these things from guys who actually OWN AND LOVE MARAUDERS.

We are truly a fortunate bunch...

[MarauderMarc]

Watch out for car jackers. Keep your doors locked.

Is your life so boring that you have to bring up things that are over a year old? Must be.......

[prchrman]

Professor...if your like me and not that hard core into racing your MM all the time you might consider a nitrous kit with a good tune...nearly if not equal performance on tap but not a bank breaker or engine breaker if done correctly...just a thought...willie

[KillJoy]

Why not get a Roots Blower, that is powered by a Centrifugal, that pushes a twin turbo setup with a small Nitrous shot to help cool things down???

:D

KillJoy

[magindat]

Professor...if your like me and not that hard core into racing your MM all the time you might consider a nitrous kit with a good tune...nearly if not equal performance on tap but not a bank breaker or engine breaker if done correctly...just a thought...willie

If was gonna do that, I'd have a 'switch' chip installed with a 93 octane tune and a nitrous tune. Then, I'd wire the 'switch' side of the chip to the arming switch for the nitrous. Then I'd label it: "Don't flip this switch under ANY circumstances!"

:beer:

[magindat]

Why not get a Roots Blower, that is powered by a Centrifugal, that pushes a twin turbo setup with a small Nitrous shot to help cool things down???

:D

KillJoy

And don't forget the multi-port meth injection and the CO2 spray over the 12 core intercooler!!!

He'll also need an electric super charger just to get it all spooled up....

[DEFYANT]

Is your life so boring that you have to bring up things that are over a year old? Must be.......


Boring? Nah. Just my warped sence of humor. :D