Cold Start Knock

[SILVERMARAUDER]

ANY IDEA ON THE CURE FOR THE COLD START LOWER END KNOCK VERY MINOR BUT JUST CAN'T STAND THE SOUND ONLY 650 MILES ON HER:coolman:

[Zack]

I talked to Steve Babcock at the Trilogy open house about this issue. He said the noise is nothing to worry about, the design team knows about it, and they are trying to determine the cause of the noise. Mine does it too. It completely went away between 2000 and 3500 miles but just came back all of the sudden. Ive learned to ignore it.

[RCSignals]

I think it's in the valve train

[jgc61sr2002]

I would have it checked. I don't think that is a normal sound. IMHO.:(

[RF Overlord]

Originally posted by Zack
I talked to Steve Babcock at the Trilogy open house about this issue. He said the noise is nothing to worry about, the design team knows about it, and they are trying to determine the cause of the noise. Mine does it too. It completely went away between 2000 and 3500 miles but just came back all of the sudden. Ive learned to ignore it.

Zack:

Thanks for that...sometimes I think I hear it and other times I don't...if you get any more on this issue, keep us posted? I'll try and remind him in TX in Sept...he better BE there...

[TripleTransAm]

At 6500 miles or so, I don't think I've ever heard a cold start knock on this car. The only noise is the ticking from the driver's side, which I believe some on this site have reported previously (and I'll have the dealer look at it within the next few weeks).

The knock could be valvetrain but could also be piston slap. This has plagued other manufacturers as well, and could it be an issue here as well? What does this knock sound like? Kind of a constant light 'tak tak tak tak' at idle or is it worse than that?

[RF Overlord]

/Steve:

In MY car, if this is the same issue, it's just a quick "b-r-r-m-p", lasts only a second or less, like the sound it makes immediately after changing the oil filter...I've heard the "nuk-nuk-nuk" sound dry bearings make (not in THIS car), and it's not like that...and it's not a "tak" sound, either...it's kinda in between...

[TAF]

Originally posted by RF Overlord
...I've heard the "nuk-nuk-nuk" sound...

I thought THAT was from you "Best of the Stooges" CD :lol:

[LincMercLover]

Woo woo woo woo woo! :lol:

[TripleTransAm]

Originally posted by RF Overlord

In MY car, if this is the same issue, it's just a quick "b-r-r-m-p", lasts only a second or less, like the sound it makes immediately after changing the oil filter...


Lordy! :confused:

I've never noticed any of my cars make odd noises after having changed an oil filter! I'm due to change the oil in the MM sometime in the next 2-3 days, so I'll listen closely... but it still sounds weird. (mind you, I tried to fill the MM oil filter at least partially before installing it... maybe that's why I didn't hear any noise?)

[rumble]

This noise has bedeviled many auto manufactures for many
years. The most common cause is no oil at the crankshaft
when starting, What you generally hear are sounds like the
connecting rods just went south for just a moment, The most
common cure is a "no drain back" oil filter. The easiest try is
to replace your oil filter, If that doesn't work get an oil pressure
gauge, hook it up and watch it at cold start, If no pressure while
you hear the noise then that's it.

[SILVERMARAUDER]

it sounds like a quick "b-r-r-m-p", lasts only a second or less, like the sound it makes immediately after changing the oil filter but i feel after time this is wearing on something i had a 1997 marquis performance pack car and never did it it was a 4.6 SOHC where do i get the no drain back oil filter?

[RF Overlord]

I don't believe the sound we are hearing is actually CAUSED by the oil draining out of the filter, just that it is SIMILAR to that kind of sound...

If you are using the Motorcraft FL-820S, it has the correct anti-drainback valve built in...look at the inlet holes and you'll see what looks like orange rubber behind them...this is the valve...

[TripleTransAm]

Originally posted by RF Overlord

If you are using the Motorcraft FL-820S, it has the correct anti-drainback valve built in...look at the inlet holes and you'll see what looks like orange rubber behind them...this is the valve...



Is this filter any good? I just bought a bunch of high priced Wix filters, but I'm always on the lookout for updated information.

Regarding the BRRMP noise... could it simply be a case of the air suspension compressor kicking in after being deactivated for the oil change? Just trying to be a devil's advocate... I WILL listen for it at my next oil change, probably tonight or tomorrow.

[RF Overlord]

/Steve:

I don't know if it's any good, but it's the one the factory puts on...I've become a little leery of FRAM, so I figured I can't go TOO far wrong with the OEM filter...

As far as the noise, no it's not the air-spring compressor...that's part of the trouble with attempting to convey sounds in a print medium...everyone hears something different in their head...

[jgc61sr2002]

RF - I agree. I will only use a Motorcraft filter on the MM.

[TripleTransAm]

Originally posted by RF Overlord
everyone hears something different in their head...


Might explain some of the folks I work with...

:rolleyes:

[jrzygrl]

Anyone having rough idle from cold start on occasion? Just started, am at 3500 miles? Don't drive it every day. What's wrong with Fram oil filters?

[TAF]

Originally posted by jrzygrl
Anyone having rough idle from cold start on occasion? Just started, am at 3500 miles? Don't drive it every day. What's wrong with Fram oil filters?

Lynn...there's a 2 question maximum on each post :lol:

[Mad4Macs]

Cold start stumbles were fixed by a PCM flash on my MM (THANX TO ALL HERE THAT MENTIONED THE FIX!!!). Mine ALWAYS stumbled or surged when 1st started, but it never lasted longer than it took to reach the end of the driveway. Got flashed 2 weeks back, and she's been SMOOTH every morning since.
Much Happiness ensued :)

[TripleTransAm]

Fram oil filters got this horrible reputation a few years back for several reasons. One of them, I think, was a supposed 'letter' from an ex employee that was 'blowing the whistle' on questionable quality-related practices when it came to oil filters. Then, some guys cut up some used oil filters and saw that the internal 'end caps' were made of flimsy cardboard and many had popped off, thereby bypassing any filtration media inside it. And I believe there are a few internet rumors of failed engines due to oil pressure issues (which would be the opposite of the end cap popping issue).

So, I don't know how much is true, but I do know the Fram filters are sold in parts houses that are reputed to stock cheap parts, and that's the reason why -> I <- am leery of them. That's all I can really say with certainty...

[jrzygrl]

Originally posted by TAF
Lynn...there's a 2 question maximum on each post :lol: Todd, that was two questions, I just got a little "loose" with the question marks....

[planetauto]

i think the oil pump is draining so thr rods are not holding any lubrication

[MM03MOK]

Originally posted by planetauto
i think the oil pump is draining so thr rods are not holding any lubrication Planetauto!!! There you are!!!!! Congrats on your first post. Haven't seen you in a while. Welcome!
Mary

[drobin]

Since I switch to Mobil 1, 10w 30 at 3500miles (now have 9000) I have not heard any usual noises whatsoever... before that it sounded horrible upon cold start ups...

[Billatpro]

Originally posted by jrzygrl
Todd, that was two questions, I just got a little "loose" with the question marks....
Lynn, you can ask all questions you want honey, you just go right ahead and ask away sweetie.:D

[jrzygrl]

I notice nobody answered them though...LOL

[gja]

Same here, after the cutover to Mobil1 5w-30 full synthetic, the engine no longer makes the few clicks/knocks it used to from dead cold.

And I share TripleTAs' disdain for ALL things Fram. There just isn't enough money to be saved cutting corners on filters, go OEM and avoid any possible warranty nonsense.

[jrzygrl]

OOPS, missed TTA#3's post...ok there's one anyway.

[Billatpro]

Originally posted by jrzygrl
Anyone having rough idle from cold start on occasion? Just started, am at 3500 miles? Don't drive it every day.

yes I have started to notice it too, I'm at 1800

[WolfeBros]

Heck Lynn.......I'll answer. You may need to get the PCM reflashed. Others have had this cold stumble and reported the reflash definitely helped. Fram used to be a great filter. The antidrain back valve in them also did not work very well meaning you would do a cold start without any oil pressure for a longer period of time while the oil pump got reprimed......not good for engine wear. Stay with the Motorcraft filter. It is rated highly.

It must me that imposing figure of a woman ready to kick some arse that scares the rest of these motorheads......:lol:

[TripleTransAm]

Originally posted by gja
And I share TripleTAs' disdain for ALL things Fram.


I can't say the same about their air filters. Supposedly they flow very well. I have pulled my best numbers with the WS6 on the track with a K&N (which I *only* use for track purposes) but for street driving I use the Fram units. They seem to be one of the most popular air filters with the F-body crowd as far as flow and effectiveness.

[jrzygrl]

Originally posted by WolfeBros
You may need to get the PCM reflashed. Others have had this cold stumble and reported the reflash definitely helped. I mentioned this to the dealer a while back but , his response was a blank stare? This is different, just a "rough idle" doesn't die, then after a few seconds is fine. If it continues, I'll take her in....

[WolfeBros]

Mine does the same thing Jrzygrl.......just a few seconds on a cold start and then is fine. I hate those guys working on my car.:depress:

[RF Overlord]

Originally posted by TripleTransAm
Then, some guys cut up some used oil filters and saw that the internal 'end caps' were made of flimsy cardboard and many had popped off, thereby bypassing any filtration media inside it.

So, I don't know how much is true, but I do know the Fram filters are sold in parts houses that are reputed to stock cheap parts,

It was primarily the "filter dissection" that influenced me...FRAM was apparently the ONLY one that used the cardboard end-caps...for all the reasons that 3TA mentioned, AND the fact that FRAM has been bought out so many times in the last 10 years, which usually means a drop in quality each time, I just decided to play it safe.

A far as /Steve's second statement above, AutoZone sells FRAM, Motorcraft, K&N, Mobil 1, Deutsch (made by FRAM), and AC/Delco...the Motorcraft filters are actually $1 cheaper than FRAM...bonus...

[MMManic]

I have the same cold engine knock, Silvermarauder, at 1200 miles and since birth. The sound is sickening and lasts about 2 seconds. The tach revs up past 2500 rpm- probably higher due to the lag in this tach. I only drive my MM on weekends so it sits for a week which only compounds the noise with every drop of oil down in the pan needing to reach the valvetrain quickly. At least the oil is so thin now which helps.

Does anyone know how to correct or eliminate the immediate high rev/idle on cold engine startup? The dealer was of course no help.

[jgc61sr2002]

Originally posted by jrzygrl
Anyone having rough idle from cold start on occasion? Just started, am at 3500 miles? Don't drive it every day. What's wrong with Fram oil filters? Lynn - There is nothing wrong with Fram filters. I beleive in using factory Motorcraft filters.

[jrzygrl]

Don't have an autozone out here, couldn't find Motorcraft, so I bought a FRAM, now you guys are freaking me out!! I want to go out and change it right now!!!!

[MMManic]

Jrzygrl- don't know about your Wal-Marts, but here in SE PA Wal-Mart carries the Motorcraft FL-820S filter and the Motorcraft 5W-20 Synthetic Blend- and of course at a great price.

[WolfeBros]

Here is a link for an oil filter study. Interesting read.

www.frankhunt.com/FRANK/corvette/articles/oilfilterstudy/oilfilterstudy.html

I know first hand alittle bit of what he states about Fram. I have been using Frams since the 60's and always thought they were the best. I have a 1974 MGB sportscar that has the oil filter mounted upside down right off the side of the engine block. I noticed on startup that I never had oil pressure for the first 15 - 20 seconds. This car has a real mechanical oil pressure gauge with a tube connected to the block. Anyway I read this study about filters that said the Frams had inferior anti-drain back valves. So the next time I changed the oil I put a Purolator oil filter on instead of Fram. VOILA.........now on a cold start I get instant oil pressure. There is something to the study and I saw the results first hand. I am staying with Motorcraft on my Marauder. JMO and apparently a few others as well. I'm not using Fram oil filters on any of my cars now.

[TripleTransAm]

Originally posted by jrzygrl
Don't have an autozone out here, couldn't find Motorcraft, so I bought a FRAM, now you guys are freaking me out!! I want to go out and change it right now!!!!


Don't freak out. Consider all that I have posted on this topic so far... and now consider that at the current moment I have a Fram filter on my MM. Why? Well, I'm pretty anal about my oil changes, and I was running around trying to find where the crap I could get my hands on 5W-20 Synthetic blend, or even pure synthetic for that matter! So, I ended up buying Castrol 5W20 (I'm a big fan of Castrol anyway) and the parts guy recommended some pricey Fram filter. I ended up using Mobil 1 5W30 in the end, though, based on some discussions here (and it seems Steve Babcock is okay with that, so I'm okay with that).

Will I lose any sleep over the Fram? No. I may cut open the filter once I change the oil tonight or tomorrow (seems I keep saying that every day... :( ) just to have a look. But if I have a choice, I'm staying away from Fram unless I'm really in a pinch.

[RF Overlord]

Originally posted by TripleTransAm
the parts guy recommended some pricey Fram filter.

/Steve:

PLEASE don't tell me you bought the DG2 Double Guard... :nono:

[jgc61sr2002]

MMManic - Welcome to the site. Thanks for the heads up about the Motorcraft oil and filters.:up:

[Zack]

I use Mobil 1 Synthetic Oil with the Mobil Oil Filter. (The one that costs $11.00) There is nothing better than matching a companies oil to their filter designed to work with their synthetic oil. Matched parts always equals matched results. Using the ford 5w-20? Use the motorcraft filter with it. You get my drift.

[studio460]

Just to contribute to the sample, here . . .

I also have the "tak-tak-tak-tak" sound. I switched to Mobil 1 5W-30 with the Motorcraft filter at first 3,000 and at 6,000 miles, and the sound is still there. I have no other cold start issues (PCM flash CR01).

[LincMercLover]

I've never heard the such... but hey, good for me, right? :D

As far as the reving up to 2500RPM at start, that's WAY too high... Need to get that checked out, cause mine barely even hits 2000RPM. There's a way (at least with mine) to get her to hit even less, just short change her on the "turn-key time." You learn to listen to the cranks of the motor and know when to let go. If you let go a little early, she won't rev up as far once she does hit.

[SILVERMARAUDER]

SergntMac
what do you mean? Silver...You have 650 miles, no mods, and three more years to figure this out.

What...

I know cars like the back of my hand i know when one is surging and cold start knocks but thanks anyway for your help!

[SILVERMARAUDER]

NBC Shooter you are saying still cold start knock after moble 1 oil change?

[TripleTransAm]

Originally posted by RF Overlord
/Steve:

PLEASE don't tell me you bought the DG2 Double Guard... :nono:


Not sure. I'll check tonight. I'd love to check out the Mobil 1 filters as well, I heard they were pretty good, efficiency-wise.

[SergntMac]

Originally posted by SILVERMARAUDER
SergntMac
what do you mean? Silver...You have 650 miles, no mods, and three more years to figure this out.

What...

I know cars like the back of my hand i know when one is surging and cold start knocks but thanks anyway for your help!

Comment deleted, I apologize for misunderstanding an opportunity for a touch of humor.

[LincMercLover]

Silver,

I think Mac was trying to say you still have a warranty that's totally good on your car, so give it some time, and maybe a little less thought? If it damages something, then you have no worries because LM will have to fix it. At least that's what I got from his statement?

[TAF]

Originally posted by SergntMac
Comment deleted, I apologize for misunderstanding an opportunity for a touch of humor.

Mac, happens to me ALL the time^^^

'Cept USUALLY I get the thread "CLOSED" :banned: :lol:

[studio460]

SILVER:

I don't believe it's cold-start "knocking" (at least I hope not). It's a "tak-tak-tak-tak" sound which someone here once hypothesized as coming from the fuel rails. But I really don't know what it is, and haven't had any input from a Ford wrench yet on it (I assume the sound is normal).

But yes, I do recall the "tak-tak-tak-tak" sound both before and after the Mobil 1 oil changes.

[MitchB]

With 5500 miles, my dad's Marauder is silent. However, I do not like the engine cold starting and immediately revving to about 2000 RPM. This cannot help engine longevity. You can fix this with a chip.

Mitch

[RF Overlord]

Originally posted by MitchB
You can fix this with a chip.

How?

Neither the Dennis chip nor the FordChip ECM re-flash had any effect on the way my car starts...

[MitchB]

Did you request the cold start fast idle be changed?

Mitch

[RF Overlord]

I wasn't aware it was an option that could be changed...what chip does your Dad use in his Marauder that allows this?

[MitchB]

I wasn't aware it was an option that could be changed...what chip does your Dad use in his Marauder that allows this?

I've yet to get the chip, but I have discussed this with Fordchip. Dennis should be able to change this as well.

Mitch

[SILVERMARAUDER]

no biggy MAC just curious what you ment. Hope the fine tuning of the the cold start rev up to 2k will help IE: CHIP it seem like it should.