Friend got herself a new 07/08 camry v6

[Aren Jay]

.............................. ..........

[1of327]

that would definiately be a shameful thing to be beat by a " yota"....I would hang my head!

[Raudermaster]

As VicsEvilBrother stated in another thread which he is right, a lot of the new 4 door 4/6cyl sedans are doing some better times than the MM did unfortunately.

[Mike Poore]

Please please please don't let a 4 door toyota camry sedan blast past me with its sewing machine engine.
.


Just be thankful she didn't buy a Hyundai Sonata 15.2 @93 on the strip or worse yet, A Subaru WRX: 14.1 @ 98 on the 1/4 :eek:

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

The Jap cars have technology on their side, what can you say. They are not perfect cars but the engines are definitely with the times. Plus they are getting 25+ mpg with the performance. Having 5 and 6 speed autos (with very good shift logic and grade logic) helps a lot. We had 4 speed overdrive RWD autos in 1983!

[RCSignals]

I couldn't really care if they could hover, I don't want a Toyota Camry.

[finster101]

I couldn't really care if they could hover, I don't want a Toyota Camry.
+1. Technology my azz, anybody consider that they are also 1000 lbs or more lighter.

[sailsmen]

Ask her who would win in a head on collision!

Ask her who would win in a rear end collision!

Ask her who would win in a TBone collision!

Tell her those times are better than most muscle cars.

[larryo340]

+1. Technology my azz, anybody consider that they are also 1000 lbs or more lighter.


Ask her who would win in a head on collision!

Ask her who would win in a rear end collision!

Ask her who would win in a TBone collision!

Tell her those times are better than most muscle cars.
^^^^^^couldn't agree more,
and by the way Toyota was having their fair share of auto transmission problems while I was working there.

[Raudermaster]

Now their horrific problem with their "powerful" V8 in the Tundra's, the truck that's changing it all. I mean the truck that fakes all of its commercials.

[larryo340]

Now their horrific problem with their "powerful" V8 in the Tundra's, the truck that's changing it all. I mean the truck that fakes all of its commercials.
those Tundra engines look alot like a GM engine
(remember GM and Toyota have a relationship)

[ckadiddle]

She has to fill the trunk with heavy luggage and fill all her seats with passengers prior to racing you. ;) After you whip her that way, with the same luggage and passenger conditions, she has to race you from a 50 mph roll.

[finster101]

those Tundra engines look alot like a GM engine
(remember GM and Toyota have a relationship)
I have not seen a problem with Escalade camshafts.

[quota]

There are lots of cars that would do "FASTER" than a MM.

But there are just a very few ones that would do it "BETTER" : the combination of exclusivity, image, sound, style, technology (RWD - V8 - full frame) makes the MM a unique stand out. And there is even less than a very few that would provide their owner with the genuine pleasure of belonging to a fantastic and exclusive network.

JP

[Joe Walsh]

Ask her if anyone, ANYONE has commented on how cool her Toyota is...?

Or if ANYONE follows her into a parking lot to ask; What kind of car is that?

Ask her if ANYONE gives her the :up: at traffic lights...

Ask her if ANYONE cares that she is driving another bland Toyota 4 wheeled appliance.

[larryo340]

.............................. .........:laugh::laugh:

Ask her if anyone, ANYONE has commented on how cool her Toyota is...?

Or if ANYONE follows her into a parking lot to ask; What kind of car is that?

Ask her if ANYONE gives her the :up: at traffic lights...

Ask her if ANYONE cares that she is driving another bland Toyota 4 wheeled appliance.

[Shora]

+1. Technology my azz, anybody consider that they are also 1000 lbs or more lighter.

Building a car that has more usable room than our Marauders while still making it weigh 1,000 lbs less is an advance in engineering/ technology.


She has to fill the trunk with heavy luggage and fill all her seats with passengers prior to racing you. ;) After you whip her that way, with the same luggage and passenger conditions, she has to race you from a 50 mph roll.


You guys are tooooooooo funny. Toyota makes the car lighter (a good...er...GREAT thing) and all you guys do is cry that it is an unfair advantage?

Maybe when you guys race the 1.5L Hondas give them some displacement. Or if you race ANYTHING where you have less weight per horse power you are no longer allowed to go WOP. Unfair advantage.

Typical NASCAR FAN attitude. (This is why NASCAR SUCKS BTW trying to even out the score to the point where it's pointless to watch.)

Start the race at 50 MPH roll? LOL. I want to be there when ANYONE tells a TOYOTA owner "well, I might beat you if we start the race at 50 MPH so take that!"

Look, we have a Camry in the family and I cannot ever see myself owning one but these arguments are a embarrassing.

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

Shora, what do you expect from enthusiasts of a particular car. They will defend it to the death. LOL. It's not worth trying to argue the point on this board, you will get jumped and beat down by Marauder enthusiasts.

[Shora]

Shora, what do you expect from enthusiasts of a particular car. They will defend it to the death. LOL. It's not worth trying to argue the point on this board, you will get jumped and beat down by Marauder enthusiasts.


In all honesty I agree with a great deal of your posts in general. However, the people on both the Marauder Forums treat me well. I disagree with the majority on a number of issues but it mostly remains very respectful.

Honestly, if we all agreed on everything these Marauder boards will get old QUICK.

[quota]

In all honesty I agree with a great deal of your posts in general. However, the people on both the Marauder Forums treat me well. I disagree with the majority on a number of issues but it mostly remains very respectful.

Honestly, if we all agreed on everything these Marauder boards will get old QUICK.

Getting on Camry Board (if any) would make you old within the next second (sorry,I could not resist...)
JP

[Aren Jay]

.............................. ..........

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

Shora I'm glad someone agrees with me.


Honestly, if we all agreed on everything these Marauder boards will get old QUICK.

Righto, that's why I'm here to inject my stunning intellect!

[RCSignals]

Shora, what do you expect from enthusiasts of a particular car. They will defend it to the death. LOL. It's not worth trying to argue the point on this board, you will get jumped and beat down by Marauder enthusiasts.


Heh

OK, where is my bag of oranges..?

[finster101]

There isn't a Subaru I wnt to fit into.

[Aren Jay]

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[Big House]

If you get beat by the "utlimate grocery getter" you deserve to have your Marauder crushed. A tuned Marauder with 4:10's makes up for the 1000lb advantage held by the Grocery. Maxima's are supposed to be fast too. Had one of them by 5 lengths by the time we hit trip digits.

[ixlr8]

I think we can all agree that the Marauder is an icon representing how great it is to not only build big, but build impressively. Built by the greatest country on earth, it's arguably the most commanding sedan on the road. It is intimidating to approach from ANY angle. It is a reminder to all car-buyers who have forsaken car companies that pledge allegience to the same great flag as you do in favor of something that the media portrays as solid gold that American cars still have power, class, and longevity. In short: We can do it bigger...we can do it better...and we will look so much better doing it than they do.

[Shora]

I think we can all agree that the Marauder is an icon representing how great it is to not only build big, but build impressively. Built by the greatest country on earth (Oh Canada), it's arguably the most commanding sedan on the road. It is intimidating to approach from ANY angle. It is a reminder to all car-buyers who have forsaken car companies that pledge allegience to the same great flag as you do in favor of something that the media portrays as solid gold that American cars still have power, class, and longevity. In short: We can do it bigger...we can do it better (Maybe we "can" but we don't)(Ford of North America has access to much higher tech gear from their Euro/ Aussy counterparts that they don't use/ bring here so they are WAY behind the curve in doing things "better"...and we will look so much better doing it than they do.

Holy Cow are you serious?

Honestly, I know that you mean well but it is the bind loyalty that you portray that allows American Car Manufacturers to fall so far behind. Instead of demanding the best from them, you seem to support them with no end no matter how bad they get or how many plants they close here and ship out of the country.

Keep it up and there may not even be a single Ford made in America anymore. Opps, I forgot that no matter how old technology Ford will still use in the future or many of there plants they move to Mexico/ Canada you will still call it the "Best damn cars on earth."

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

;) You're on a Ford board, this is what you're going to get Shora.

[RCSignals]

;) You're on a Ford board, this is what you're going to get Shora.


Same as you get on any model specific car board..........

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

Not necessarily. I'm on Moparts.com, and a large number of the die hard guys will agree that 60s-70s Chryslers had awful build quality and cheap interiors, but that they still love the cars. They will also talk about how much they hate some of the newer stuff Chrysler has put out. That is fine, that is at least an objective outlook. I don't see that here too often. Whatever floats your boat, I guess.

[RCSignals]

Not necessarily. I'm on Moparts.com, and a large number of the die hard guys will agree that 60s-70s Chryslers had awful build quality and cheap interiors, but that they still love the cars. They will also talk about how much they hate some of the newer stuff Chrysler has put out. That is fine, that is at least an objective outlook. I don't see that here too often. Whatever floats your boat, I guess.

I've seen hard criticisms of the Marauder and other Ford products here a lot. Probably more than many other boards. Sometimes you'd think it's a Ford hate board here.

The Chrysler guys are right about older Chrysler products '50's - '60's - '70's and '80's There is good reason Chrysler had to be bailed out. They have their die-hard fans though and to them none of that matters.

[Shora]

....They have their die-hard fans though and to them none of that matters.

That is especially the problem WITH FORD FANS.

Hello!!!!! Ford of Europe makes GREAT CARS that we never see. Ford of Australia makes even COOLER cars that we too never see.

Why are so many here blind? What are they loyal to exactly and how does it help them?

Ford is closing plants here in the US while building others elsewhere. Thus, supporting Ford does not help your average middle class American any more than buying foreign brand cars that are actually BUILT and ASSEMBLED HERE. Hell, these days, buying a Ford might even hurt your fellow middle class American more than buying a foreign brand car.

How does "being a Ford guy" help you in getting the best Ford possible? It is well known that Ford of Europe and of Australia are offering better cars with more advance design and technology. Nevertheless, all the Ford fans here (in the US in general and not only on this board) seem to only care about the dumbest car event in the world...NASCAR.

I have a lot and I mean A LOT of respect for NASCAR in its early days. Especially all the history of how it started. However, it has been spoiled to the point where the rules are so laughable that they actually discourage advancement in technology from taking place. Unlike all the other races around the world, NASCAR today focuses ONLY about advertising for sponsors and nothing about advancing technology or even seeing who can produce the best car possible. Somehow, the number of fans is increasing while the race and quality of the sport is decreasing. I wonder what that says about us as a nation?

The dumber the sport is getting, the larger number of fans.

Anyway, as comparing this board to the rest? Nahh, we are a more mature bunch and should know better. This is not a Honda Civic board with a bunch of teenagers who still have much to learn. We should know better. Key word "should".

[RCSignals]

That is especially the problem WITH FORD FANS.

Hello!!!!! Ford of Europe makes GREAT CARS that we never see. Ford of Australia makes even COOLER cars that we too never see.

Why are so many here blind? What are they loyal to exactly and how does it help them?

Ford is closing plants here in the US while building others elsewhere. Thus, supporting Ford does not help your average middle class American any more than buying foreign brand cars that are actually BUILT and ASSEMBLED HERE. Hell, these days, buying a Ford might even hurt your fellow middle class American more than buying a foreign brand car.

How does "being a Ford guy" help you in getting the best Ford possible? It is well known that Ford of Europe and of Australia are offering better cars with more advance design and technology. Nevertheless, all the Ford fans here (in the US in general and not only on this board) seem to only care about the dumbest car event in the world...NASCAR.

I have a lot and I mean A LOT of respect for NASCAR in its early days. Especially all the history of how it started. However, it has been spoiled to the point where the rules are so laughable that they actually discourage advancement in technology from taking place. Unlike all the other races around the world, NASCAR today focuses ONLY about advertising for sponsors and nothing about advancing technology or even seeing who can produce the best car possible. Somehow, the number of fans is increasing while the race and quality of the sport is decreasing. I wonder what that says about us as a nation?

The dumber the sport is getting, the larger number of fans.

Anyway, as comparing this board to the rest? Nahh, we are a more mature bunch and should know better. This is not a Honda Civic board with a bunch of teenagers who still have much to learn. We should know better. Key word "should".


Yes Ford should bring more over from it's European and Australian operations. It's not so simple though I guess.
Ford has done it to some extent, sure they altered the Focus too much, but they've used technology from Volvo, and they've made good use of their technology from Mazda, which they are major owner of.

GM has tried it too, with not a lot of success in the sales department.

I think the 'blindly' loyal here are not in the majority. They just stand out and get picked on more.

I agree completely about NASCAR. It's not worth watching.
I'm not so sure I agree with the statement about Ford fans, especially those here, and NASCAR though. I don't think too many here care much about it.

As for making a suggestion to look at other make car forums, it is completely legitimate - except maybe the Honda ones you cite Visit a few, this isn't the only forum with a more mature bunch who should know better.

Owner age wise though, we've always had a good spread here.

As I also said,
I've seen hard criticisms of the Marauder and other Ford products here a lot. Probably more than many other boards. Sometimes you'd think it's a Ford hate board here. and sometimes that 'hate' is blind.

[larryo340]

That is especially the problem WITH FORD FANS.

Hello!!!!! Ford of Europe makes GREAT CARS that we never see. Ford of Australia makes even COOLER cars that we too never see.
Nevertheless, all the Ford fans here (in the US in general and not only on this board) seem to only care about the dumbest car event in the world...NASCAR.


I worked for Lincoln/Mercury when we had the Mercur Xr4ti, and Scorpio. Both cars drove very nicely, but at that time "Amercian" car buyers did not like the ride they always complained they were too stiff amoung other complaints. They drove kinda like a BMW or Volvo, very tight right down to the solid sound of the doors closing. Those two cars were all European with the exception of the Xr4ti engine which was the good old 2.3L turbo I4.
If FORD came out with a car like those now, I bet they would sell. The domestic car buyer was not ready for cars like those back then.

As far as NASCAR, if you can still turn your not going fast enough!! :D

[sailsmen]

I owned an XR4Ti. Unfortunately the turbo cooked everything under he hood.

Even the fan belt! I changed it during our honey moon. NAPA happened to have a matched set.

I drove one in Europe with a V-6 and dual carbs. Thats the engine Ford should have kept for the US.

[Aren Jay]

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[fastcar]

The ricers, and Chrysler keep putting out faster and faster cars, with nice variety and it is an embarrasment to Ford.

You can buy a 400+ HP Chrysler with 2-5 doors, in multiple configurations, and lots of choices for engines, too. It's like the 60s all over again over their. It makes me crazy Ford doesn't get with the program.

The Marauder was such a great car, and they didn't sell it, at all. Poor marketing.

In Ford's defense, if you got a freak, you could hold your own against the ricers back then, except for the sticks, which were running very low 14s.

But, that's another example of why Marauders are gone, and Acura TLs and Maximas are still being built: the Japanese offer sticks. Can you imagine how many more of these cars would have been ordered if you could have rowed your own???

It's true, we can't complain about the extra weight. We get 33% more displacement!!!

The car really should have had the 5.4, or forced induction. Or at least options for those.

No choices, no excitement. Unbelievable Ford. The company I love, and yet I'd like to kill the decision makers.

Also, the interior faux carbon fiber panels, the first time I saw them I couldn't believe how cheap they looked. When my buddy with a ricer sat in it, he said 'Oh, carbon fiber. Looks nice.' I could tell he was being polite. I felt so embarrassed.

Who was the idiot who decided tire size? GMs been putting 255-275 meats on their cars for decades, and we don't even get there on the backs!

The shortcummings go on, and on, and Ford ruined it, it's all true, and it's embarrassing now, going up against the latest ricers, it's all true.

But, remember the car is now 4 years old, and it was built by the company that NEVER gives us what we want, just teases us. Remember the 1988 T-Bird Turbo Coupe. What a beautiful car, it had it all. I mean, it was just gorgeous, even four wheel disc brakes. And a four cylinder, too... What a bunch of morons.

But we know EXACTLY what we want. We want the Marauder! Like so many have said on this thread, it's the darndest bad-ass, meanest, full-frame, front engine, RWD V-8 powered, in the American tradition, American designed and built car EVER. I love it, and what it lacks, I'm trying to rectify.

Everyone should be putting tunes and 4.10s on their cars along with 6-speeds, or PI torque converters. This is about $2500. These mods alone will make our cars very low 14 second contenders, and we can hold our heads up, not feel ashamed, and keep showing those ricers and chrysters what we got!

fastcar:burnout:

[Aren Jay]

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[Shora]

...And yes the GT40 is there too. Don't forget them. Ford also owns Jaguar and if you want a fast car have a look at the Jaguar S Type R or XJR. compare the 2004/05 model years to the ricers and see what happens when Ford makes a fast car.

So price is no issue?

Oook, I guess I should post pics of my friends brand new M6 and Uncle's GT Continental.

There are a million more fun and fast cars around me but those two are actually worth owning imo because they are VERY street friendly and even practical.

GT40? Unreal Car but not so practical. Heck, most owners just "talk" about them rather then use and enjoy them.

Jags? The engine design is around 10 yrs. old in many models.
The interior? Fuhgetaboutit. Just plain boring and cheap.
The exterior, especially the all alloy models, are sweet though.

However, the M6 redlines at over 8K RPM and has a REAL Carbon Fiber roof.
That V10 screams. WOW.

Also, no Jag has been worth owning since Ford took over and sales prove it.

Just my experience.

[Aren Jay]

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[RCSignals]

...............
Also, no Jag has been worth owning since Ford took over and sales prove it.

Just my experience.

That's pretty funny. No Jag was worth owning from the '70s to the point after Ford took over. Ford ownership was very good for Jaguar.

British Unions killed the entire British car Industry, to the point it could only be saved by foreign ownership.

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

The ricers, and Chrysler keep putting out faster and faster cars, with nice variety and it is an embarrasment to Ford.

You can buy a 400+ HP Chrysler with 2-5 doors, in multiple configurations, and lots of choices for engines, too. It's like the 60s all over again over their. It makes me crazy Ford doesn't get with the program.


This is true, the Chrysler 4 door Hemi and SRT8 cars have lots of power and technology to boot. They really do put GM and Ford to shame. But that still didn't get Chrysler out of the current mess it's in!! We need Lee Iacocca back!

[Aren Jay]

.............................. ..........

[RCSignals]

This is true, the Chrysler 4 door Hemi and SRT8 cars have lots of power and technology to boot. They really do put GM and Ford to shame. But that still didn't get Chrysler out of the current mess it's in!! We need Lee Iacocca back!


Really? What to boot 'technology' do they have that the others don't?

older Mercedes transmission? older Mercedes differential? Speed Density intake air management? OHV V8?

I'm trying to understand.

Yes bring back the Ford guy Lee Iacocca :lol:

[ixlr8]

Holy Cow are you serious?

Honestly, I know that you mean well but it is the bind loyalty that you portray that allows American Car Manufacturers to fall so far behind. Instead of demanding the best from them, you seem to support them with no end no matter how bad they get or how many plants they close here and ship out of the country.

Keep it up and there may not even be a single Ford made in America anymore. Opps, I forgot that no matter how old technology Ford will still use in the future or many of there plants they move to Mexico/ Canada you will still call it the "Best damn cars on earth."

Wow I leave the threads for a couple of days and get stabbed in the back when I'm gone...:rolleyes:

Ok Shora, you got me on the Canadian built thing, but hey - these cars were designed in Detroit, by [mostly] Americans, and American Engineers told them which bolt belonged in each hole - so to speak. Besides, isn't Canada like "America Jr." anyway? No offense, Canadians! ;) :canada: It's not like we farmed out the work to some foreign country.

Now to touch on this "blind loyalty" a bit. As a Ford fan, I keep up with the bad just as much as the good. Have you or anyone else you ever met watched a particular sport and rooted for the same team no matter how poorly they performed? It happens all of the time. For me, I'm no sports fan. I can't get into watching people play on TV for millions of dollars while I sit and try to figure out when I'll be able to make my next mortgage payment. I am however, a car nut, and an American one at that. I buy tangible goods from my favorite team, Ford Motor Company. Sure that sounds corny, but this team is much more important to me because they, like GM and [occasionally] Chrysler, are driving forces in our economy. Yes, you can argue that Toyota and Nissan, etc. are also driving forces, but that's only because there simply wasn't enough loyalty from the American public to prevent it. Is that a bad thing? Well, far be it for me to say that diversity is a bad thing, but I think it may have became bad when the media decided that the imports were their newly adopted children and they would defend them to the death. Now that the American public in general has their opinions so skewed for so many years is has become very hard for the domestics to stay ahead. A little more loyalty and a less ignorance from the public would have kept the domestics from getting in so much trouble this late in the game. "Trouble" being the layoffs, plant shutdowns, labor farming, etc. Luckily in the past couple of years I have definitely noticed an increase in domestic interest.:flag:

BTW, I'm not knocking all imported cars. I can admire and appreciate some of them for what they are. I just choose to support my team. :)

Sorry about the long-winded post...it's late and I'm babbling.

[RCSignals]

Ford has had a presence building cars and parts in Canada since 1904, one year after it stared in the US

[Shora]

Wow I leave the threads for a couple of days and get stabbed in the back when I'm gone...:rolleyes:

Ok Shora, you got me on the Canadian built thing, but hey - these cars were designed in Detroit, by [mostly] Americans, and American Engineers told them which bolt belonged in each hole - so to speak. Besides, isn't Canada like "America Jr." anyway? No offense, Canadians! ;) :canada: It's not like we farmed out the work to some foreign country.

Now to touch on this "blind loyalty" a bit. As a Ford fan, I keep up with the bad just as much as the good. Have you or anyone else you ever met watched a particular sport and rooted for the same team no matter how poorly they performed? It happens all of the time. For me, I'm no sports fan. I can't get into watching people play on TV for millions of dollars while I sit and try to figure out when I'll be able to make my next mortgage payment. I am however, a car nut, and an American one at that. I buy tangible goods from my favorite team, Ford Motor Company. Sure that sounds corny, but this team is much more important to me because they, like GM and [occasionally] Chrysler, are driving forces in our economy. Yes, you can argue that Toyota and Nissan, etc. are also driving forces, but that's only because there simply wasn't enough loyalty from the American public to prevent it. Is that a bad thing? Well, far be it for me to say that diversity is a bad thing, but I think it may have became bad when the media decided that the imports were their newly adopted children and they would defend them to the death. Now that the American public in general has their opinions so skewed for so many years is has become very hard for the domestics to stay ahead. A little more loyalty and a less ignorance from the public would have kept the domestics from getting in so much trouble this late in the game. "Trouble" being the layoffs, plant shutdowns, labor farming, etc. Luckily in the past couple of years I have definitely noticed an increase in domestic interest.:flag:

BTW, I'm not knocking all imported cars. I can admire and appreciate some of them for what they are. I just choose to support my team. :)

Sorry about the long-winded post...it's late and I'm babbling.


No stabbing intended. My last three cars/ trucks were Fords. Also, there are currently 9 Fords in my family so I know a little about sticking with your team.

I am just SO ticked off that Ford of Europe and Australia are offering (IMHO) 10 times better products than Ford of North America. I believe that there is no excuse for that. If it is an American Company then they should find a way to bring the best that they can here.


Ford has had a presence building cars and parts in Canada since 1904, one year after it stared in the US

And Mexico?

Believe you me; of all people I am one of the biggest supporters of the Mexicans and how though they have it. However, I DO NOT want to see more plants being built there while plants are closing here.

[RCSignals]

And Mexico?

Believe you me; of all people I am one of the biggest supporters of the Mexicans and how though they have it. However, I DO NOT want to see more plants being built there while plants are closing here.

I'm not sure when ford first set up in Mexico. I do agree they shouldn't close plants here for new ones there.

They all have set up in Mexico though, The new 'Hemi' is made there. GM also builds engines there.

edit to add: Ford set up in Mexico in 1926

http://www.autolife.umd.umich.edu/Race/R_Overview/Mexico_Plant.htm

[quota]

No stabbing intended. My last three cars/ trucks were Fords. Also, there are currently 9 Fords in my family so I know a little about sticking with your team.

I am just SO ticked off that Ford of Europe and Australia are offering (IMHO) 10 times better products than Ford of North America. I believe that there is no excuse for that. If it is an American Company then they should find a way to bring the best that they can here.



And Mexico?

Believe you me; of all people I am one of the biggest supporters of the Mexicans and how though they have it. However, I DO NOT want to see more plants being built there while plants are closing here.


Yes. Among others, Europeans have the Focus II. And the new Mondeo. But do not blame FORD for keeping these models in Europe. Manufacturing costs are higher out there and so are the selling prices. Would you find these many clients on the North American market, ready to pay the price of a Mercury Milan or of a Honda Accord for getting a Focus II ?

Managers at FORD have made mistakes. But do not blame them for not importing here some cars that can be smarter than what we have here.
If these smarter cars should generate positive margins, their selling price would have to be set too high for our market. They would not sell.
JP

[Aren Jay]

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[RCSignals]

Diabolical1 CC have you studied Ford's History before HFII took the company public?

[Aren Jay]

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