J-MOD discrepancy between plans. Drill out hole #10?

[fastcar]

Gang,

This article by Jerry:
http://www.tccoa.com/articles/tranny/transmission/page13.shtml

Says nothing about hole #10, but a popular set of 'j-mod' instructions circulated here at MM.net says to drill it out to 3/32. Cruztaker told me they are definitely Jerry W's suggestions.

Why the discrepancy?

If Jerry doesn't recommend it at his site, I'm leary of it...

Does anyone know what #10 does, and why the difference between the two instructions?

I'm hoping to do this, this weekend. I sure hope someone knows about this!

fastcar:burnout:

[Zack]

http://www.dndgarage.net/jmod.htm

Do exactly as this guy states. Dont follow the tccoa instructions, they havent been updated in years.

[Darrin]

I haven't seen the 'popular set of 'j-mod' instructions circulated here at MM.net', but hole number 10 should be the hole for making reverse engage faster. This can cause a problem on vehicles that have aftermarket cams installed unless things are changed in the tune as well.

If you don't have or are not planning to get aftermarket cams that will cause you a problem and want reverse to come in faster when you put the shifter there, then by all means. It won't hurt anything at all.

Darrin

Darrin

[Zack]

Would you sign up already Darrin.
I cant praise you until then!

[fastcar]

http://www.dndgarage.net/jmod.htm

Do exactly as this guy states. Dont follow the tccoa instructions, they havent been updated in years.

Zack, I'm starting to like you. You always take care of me :D

Seriously, thanks,

fastcar:burnout:

[fastcar]

I haven't seen the 'popular set of 'j-mod' instructions circulated here at MM.net', but hole number 10 should be the hole for making reverse engage faster. This can cause a problem on vehicles that have aftermarket cams installed unless things are changed in the tune as well.

If you don't have or are not planning to get aftermarket cams that will cause you a problem and want reverse to come in faster when you put the shifter there, then by all means. It won't hurt anything at all.

Darrin

Darrin

Cruztaker has been hooking folks up with instructions for a long time. The ones he supplies are the ones I am speaking of...

OK, thanks for that info. I noticed in the link Zack posted me they mention number 10 as the reverse, also. I'll give it some thought.

It seems the link he supplies implies the opposite of what you have stated. It's a good idea to drill out IF YOU DO have cams. Not sure what cams has to do with tranny operation...

fastcar:burnout:

[fastcar]

I have an Alternative Auto Tune and just want to firm up 1-2 shift a bit.

I plan on opening the associated holes a little bit. I may not go all the way to 7/64 (.109) if the holes are much smaller than that to begin with.

For example, if they are .080, I may open them to .090, and see how it works...

Then, maybe I won't get the severe result some are getting with a tune plus the j-mod.

I like the way it shifts accepts under WOT. It's way too soft. I'd like a good ripper on the 1-2;)

This approach is the opposite way of dealing with the situation. Most folks adjust the tune after the j-mod, to try to get the shifts right.

I'll keep everyone posted...

Any comments or suggestions?

fastcar:burnout:

[sabtaj1]

I did everything in the link that zack posted except the reverse hole. Didnt feel the need to go into reverse faster. I even removed the 1-2 and 2-3 accumulator springs. I am very happy with it. Shifts great!!!! DO IT!!

[MM03MOK]

Would you sign up already Darrin.
I cant praise you until then!
He's working on it and I am too! ;)

[Darrin]

I have found that vehicles with cams stall when they dump into gear. You can tune that out.

Darrin

[Darrin]

fastcar,

Most of the firmness is actually a function of the spring setup in the accumulators. Enlarging the holes does make the shift firmer, and of course if you go hog wild then you will feel it more, but mostly the purpose is to allow for faster application through increased fluid flow.

The bottom spring for the accumulators is the damper to keep the shifts from banging. This is why people get a really harsh shift (compared to normal) with a broken spring or from an accumulator that hangs up in the bore. If the accumulator hangs then the pressure behind it to overcome that ends up causing the accumulator to jump loose. Just like if you push against a stuck door or something and it comes loose with a sudden pop. Same thing.

I thought it might be good to explain that part of it. You can go to the hole sizes that Jerry said to or you can do what you are thinking. I change things around there myself based on what I want. Just don't expect that enlarging the holes a little bit less in and of itself is going to make a huge difference in shift firmness. It will make a difference, but not a big difference.

Darrin

[fastcar]

I did everything in the link that zack posted except the reverse hole. Didnt feel the need to go into reverse faster. I even removed the 1-2 and 2-3 accumulator springs. I am very happy with it. Shifts great!!!! DO IT!!

Hey Sab,

Yeah, but do you have the tune, also? I'm told that the combination makes shifts too hard. I'm looking for hard hits under WOT, but more mild mannered the rest of the time. I'll PM you just to make sure I get through... Thanks,

fastcar:burnout:

[fastcar]

fastcar,

Most of the firmness is actually a function of the spring setup in the accumulators. Enlarging the holes does make the shift firmer, and of course if you go hog wild then you will feel it more, but mostly the purpose is to allow for faster application through increased fluid flow.

The bottom spring for the accumulators is the damper to keep the shifts from banging. This is why people get a really harsh shift (compared to normal) with a broken spring or from an accumulator that hangs up in the bore. If the accumulator hangs then the pressure behind it to overcome that ends up causing the accumulator to jump loose. Just like if you push against a stuck door or something and it comes loose with a sudden pop. Same thing.

I thought it might be good to explain that part of it. You can go to the hole sizes that Jerry said to or you can do what you are thinking. I change things around there myself based on what I want. Just don't expect that enlarging the holes a little bit less in and of itself is going to make a huge difference in shift firmness. It will make a difference, but not a big difference.

Darrin

Hi Darrin,

Thanks. I took another gander at Jerry's instruction set, and he has 4 stages, that are progressively more radical. The first two leave the bottom spring, the last two remove it. Since I already have maximum line pressure from the tune, I'm going to start mild, and see where I end up. If I don't get what I want, I will open the holes even more. If I max them out, and still am not where I want to be, I will remove the spring. I'll keep everyone posted on how this thing works out. Should be interesting. And greasy...

fastcar:stupid:

[sabtaj1]

Well, I do have a tune. And it doesnt shift as hard as you think its going too. Plus, you dont have to have your line pressure turned all the way up. Less stress on the pump also, becouse you arent over working the pump. I am very pleased with how it turned out. If I had to choose again, I would do the same exact thing. I followed the instructions just like how it said on the link zack posted. except the reverse hole, left that alone. My acculmulator springs are just hangin out in my tool box. Honestly though, its not near as hard as you think its gonna be. dont know if its becouse I am 28 or what. I think its perfect though. I have a dr tune though, so it may be different with the lidio tune. Either way I think it will satisfy what you are looking for. On another note I do have a 3500 stall too. And when I put that in it didnt shift hard at all. So maybe thats where mine makes a difference compared to the stock one. Be like NIKE and Just Do It!!!

[Darrin]

Oh yeah a stall makes a difference here. On a vehicle with a stall you can go much further on the valve body modifications and take out the lower springs and it isn't harsh. It jsut has VERY quick shifts. Put that same set of modifications in a car that has a stock converer and you get someone complaining that you are trying to tear up their car.

Yeah, a high stall converter changes things a whole lot.

And it is also very true that you can adjust a whole lot of this with the proper tune. What sabtaj1 says is testament of that.

Darrin

[fastcar]

It has been helpful and informative getting the input. But after hearing everything, I feel I'm back where I left off...

I do not have a stall converter. This would indicate more conservative valve body mods...

I do not have any idea how to adjust the Xcal tune. This would indicate moving carefully on the valve body.

As far as pressure on the pump goes, I am not hearing about pump failures on these cars that have tunes. I like the theory, but I don't think it's worth me trying to resolve.

Thanks guys for the input. I'll keep you updated...

fastcar:burnout:

[Darrin]

I think I might be missing something. I know that I absolutely never indicated going with more conservative mods just because you don't have a converter. That isn't at all what I meant and I am sorry if you took it that way. I was just meaning to convey that if you went with a converter the shifts become much more soft. Not that you have to have a converter. Also, if you have a proper tune then it was designed to work with these mods. The same guy, the one that the valve body modifications are named after, was behind it all actually. It is nothing but good.

This mod that is going around here that you mentioned is a very conservative mod. My opinion of it is that it's mostly designed to help the transmission and give he owner of the car a little seat of the pants to boot. It definitely isn't nearly as agressive as I make even some of the most mild stuff that I am called to do.

Please don't get concerned with too much information and please do this mod. Your transmission will thank you for it. Just remember that if you are worried about harsh shifts then leave the spring setup alone.

Trust me, after you do this you will see the truth of it. Please don't wory.

Look, if you drill your plate and it's too harsh then I will swap you for a brand new plate and you can go back to stock. I am that confident.

Darrin

[KillJoy]

Zack reworked the Valve Body on my Trans.

If this is what he did, it definately DOES make the car shift into Reverse faster.

:up:

KillJoy

[Zack]

Darrin^^^^Knows what he is talking about.
Listen!

[Zack]

Zack reworked the Valve Body on my Trans.

If this is what he did, it definately DOES make the car shift into Reverse faster.

:up:

KillJoy

Yes I drilled the reverse hole.
I wanted to be sure you left faster than you arrived. :flamer:

[sabtaj1]

Yes I drilled the reverse hole.
I wanted to be sure you left faster than you arrived. :flamer:


:lol: I totally believe that!!

[Drewstang]

Yes I drilled the reverse hole.
I wanted to be sure you left faster than you arrived. :flamer:
LOL,

Did you happen to do this to the Trilogy car too?

[fastcar]

I think I might be missing something. I know that I absolutely never indicated going with more conservative mods just because you don't have a converter. That isn't at all what I meant and I am sorry if you took it that way. I was just meaning to convey that if you went with a converter the shifts become much more soft. Not that you have to have a converter. Also, if you have a proper tune then it was designed to work with these mods. The same guy, the one that the valve body modifications are named after, was behind it all actually. It is nothing but good.

This mod that is going around here that you mentioned is a very conservative mod. My opinion of it is that it's mostly designed to help the transmission and give he owner of the car a little seat of the pants to boot. It definitely isn't nearly as agressive as I make even some of the most mild stuff that I am called to do.

Please don't get concerned with too much information and please do this mod. Your transmission will thank you for it. Just remember that if you are worried about harsh shifts then leave the spring setup alone.

Trust me, after you do this you will see the truth of it. Please don't wory.

Look, if you drill your plate and it's too harsh then I will swap you for a brand new plate and you can go back to stock. I am that confident.

Darrin

Hi Darrin!

That is a kind offer. If you are serious, I might consider going all the way to 7/64 and just keep the springs in. Just confirm that you want to place this bet. If I getting annoying, harsh shifts at part throttle, I will post here for a trade back to the stock body! Everyone is my witness :D

When you stated:


Oh yeah a stall makes a difference here. On a vehicle with a stall you can go much further on the valve body modifications and take out the lower springs and it isn't harsh.

I took that to mean a stall will allow me to go with larger holes, and no springs, where a stock stall speed would require springs and smaller holes for a subdued part throttle shift.

Anyway, just let me know if you are sure. If you are, I'll trust your experience, and give it a go all the way on all the holes. If you don't want to do this, I will go small on select holes, and see how things go. I will leave the springs in, either way. Thanks,

fastcar:burnout:

[Darrin]

fastcar

If you are talking about using the directions that I saw from here then by all means. I have 2 new untouched plates here and I will swap one for you if you don't like what you get, as long as you don't drill out any wrong holes or anything. I have no problem at all saying that if you do this and decide that you don't like it then I can send you the new plate as soon as you let me know you need it. But you have to understand that if the one that comes back to me is drilled wrong then you owe me for it. So just make sure you do it right and there is nothing to worry about at all.

Do it and keep the springs in and I know you won't be disappointed. But if so, then you know you have a place to turn to get it straightened back out.

Darrin

[pantheroc]

Do any of you see better "reverse" 1/4 mi times with the #10 hole mod? :D Post time slips!

[Darrin]

Well...

What it actually helps is those people that have a tendency to cram a vehicle into gear and apply the long skinny without waiting for the stuff that needs to happen in the transmission to happen. Making that hole bigger will eliminate that delay between when the shifter is put into reverse and the transmission actually gets itself ready to move.

My mom needed this on everything she drove. She no longer can drive, but when she did, she had a bad habit of 2 footing it and using the brake to modulate the vehicle speed instead of the gas. IE: Get in car. Put foot on brake. Put gas pedal into desired position for driving in any and all conditions. Start car. Put car into desired gear and release brake.

Yeah, she was hard on brakes. LOL

But there is a decent delay between putting the shifter in reverse and reverse happening in stock form. This gets rid of that. But like I said, it can cause stalling in a car with cams unless the tune is adjusted for it.

I don't think most people need it, but I change it on most transmissions where the customer doesn't have cams yet. It's the first thing they notice the first time back behind the wheel and there is always a comment about how "That was different" and a smile. It's always the little things like this that I don't think are that big a deal but that customers love. That immediate gear change lets them know that their transmission is ready for action. LOL

Darrin

[fastcar]

fastcar

If you are talking about using the directions that I saw from here then by all means. I have 2 new untouched plates here and I will swap one for you if you don't like what you get, as long as you don't drill out any wrong holes or anything. I have no problem at all saying that if you do this and decide that you don't like it then I can send you the new plate as soon as you let me know you need it. But you have to understand that if the one that comes back to me is drilled wrong then you owe me for it. So just make sure you do it right and there is nothing to worry about at all.

Do it and keep the springs in and I know you won't be disappointed. But if so, then you know you have a place to turn to get it straightened back out.

Darrin

OK, I'm down. You've got me pumped up, and ready to do it all the way. Yes, if I screw up, I'll own it ;)

I'm getting tubing so I can pump the tranny out, and picked up the jack stands and jack today. I can't wait to see how things go. This is the drain procedure I'm going to use:

http://www.ford-trucks.com/article/idx/0/057/article/Changing_ATF_Fluid_in_a_E4OD_a nd_4R100_transmission.html

Looks A LOT neater than the drop the pan and scram routine :P

I'm going to consider the reverse mod, while I'm at it. I may take the car out and manual shift it (which I don't normally do) to see if I want to open #3. I notice Jerry suggests .180 which is much larger than the other holes. I would probably go LESS. Cruztaker's directions do not enlarge #3.

Anyway, I'll keep everyone updated, and let you know how it goes. I hope to do it tomorrow. I have to saw cut some plywood to protect my driveway from the jack-stands, and some 1x3 for the tops of the stands (so they don't screw up my virgin undercarriage;))

fastcar:burnout:

[Zack]

DONT manual shift it!
The OD band applies when the gear selector is in '2'
And at WOT when it applies, it wont last long.

[fastcar]

Thanks for the advice, Zack. I won't manually shift it until I better understand the risks involved...

I'm doing the j-mod right now, and pumped out the tranny fluid by disconnecting the top line (return) on the transmission. This is suppose to let you pump everything out (including torque converter). Only problem is, by the time I got air in the line, I had NOT pumped 4 gallons out, probably just 1-2. Does anyone have any suggestions on how I get the rest out??? Thanks,

fastcar:burnout:

P.S. right now wrestling with the back two bolts on the pan. The crossmember juts out unnecessarily close to the pan preventing you from getting A TOOL ON THE BOLTS. The engineer who drew up the cross member should be fire:mad2: I'm going to have to use 1/4 drive tools to get it out...)

[Zack]

All the fluid will come out when every valve body bolt is cracked loose.

[fastcar]

All the fluid will come out when every valve body bolt is cracked loose.

Thanks, Zack. I did just now get another gallon from cracking the valve body. But what about the fluid in the TC??? Thanks,

fastcar:burnout:

[Darrin]

All the fluid will come out when every valve body bolt is cracked loose.
Yeah, aint that the messy truth. LOL

Darrin

[Darrin]

Thanks, Zack. I did just now get another gallon from cracking the valve body. But what about the fluid in the TC??? Thanks,

fastcar:burnout:
The fluid in the top of the converter came out when you dropped the valve body and thus bypassed the converter drainback. Without a drain plug in it then everything that is in the bottom half of the converter is going to have to stay there. No big deal.

Darrin

[Zack]

Still enjoying Big Yeller'
Thanks D!