Snow tires.

[Aren Jay]

Should I go with 18" Bridgestone Blizzak LM25's

or

16" Winterforce (Bridgestone) M&S Studded snow tires.

The price is about the same if I use my 18" rims.

Which would you suggest?

[jdando]

I think a studded tire would give superior grip over a non studded tire on all ice and snow conditions. Also this will save your nice fancy 18" wheels from salt, sand and other stuff that gets put on the road in the winter.

jeremy

[Eric91Z]

First off, if it was me and I had a 16" wheel available, I would definitely go that route and not leave the stock 18's on for the winter.

So, definitely go with a taller, skinnier 16" tire. I, personally, used the Pirelli Scorpion Snow & Ice tires for the last 2 winters on 16" CVPI steel wheels and they work wonderfully - no extra weight in the trunk, very little of the ABS or Traction Control coming on.

Since the Marauder is no longer my daily driver that same wheel/tire setup will get used on the CVPI this winter and hoping for the same results. Also, after 2 winters - abount 18,000 miles or so (have them on for about 6 months or so out of the year - Oct/Nov to April) - and they are showing very little wear, they ride quite nice and are pretty quiet (quietier then the stock BFG's).

That's just my $.02. No matter what tire you go with, I would say go the 16" wheel/tire route and save your 18's for the nice weather.

[rayjay]

I live in the upstate NY snowbelt in hill country. The Winterforce studded 16" get me through anything. I can even go straight up my own road with them on instead of making a run at one of the other streets that are less steep. Plus if you use the OEM wheels they get beat to death. Wider tires regardless of tread design are not as good in the snow as they act like a plow when you try to turn.

[Aren Jay]

I'm going to be driving on dry roads with these and at least one highway trip 400 miles for christmas.

Legally it isn't a problem as Studded tires are legal year round in Alberta but how are Winterforce M&S on dry pavement or when it is slushy wet?

[rayjay]

Obviously they do not handle as well as the OEM tires. They do ride better. I've had no issues with them in any driving conditions. I just wish I had studded my 1st set.

[Aren Jay]

That sounds good. You found the studded tires to be that much better than non studded?

[ctrlraven]

I run the non-studded Winterforce tires with just the little bit of snow we had and they were great, besides they are 235/70-16 (front) 255/70-16 (rear) so I felt better driving on the highway with more contact surface.

[CRUZTAKER]

I have used both you suggest. Even the WS series Blizzacks.

The WS blizzacks are softer, and far grippier in heavy snow. However, in some applications, such as my crown vic on all four corners, thay gave the feeling of 'wander' at highway speeds. On the Marauder, with WS on the front only, and Kelly wintermarks (studded) on the rear, there was no wander.

I purchased 4 YS series for my Focus last year, fearing the 'wander' at highway speeds as the Focus is driven 90% of the time on the freeway.

Now our Aviator has 4 WS series, and experiences no 'wander' what so ever. Perhaps the AWD solves that problem.

The biggest difference between the YS and WS Blizzacks aside from the compound, is the hook in heavy snow and on ice. The WS is far superior.
The YS Blizzacks will not produce wander at highway speeds.

I chose to use Kelly Wintermarks, (16" applications on all four corners) for the rear only on my Marauder. It is suitable for light trucks, cheap, and studdable. With WS Blizzacks on the front and Kellys on the rear, the Marauder was awesome in even the heaviest snow. I used to plow my driveway, even on a 6% grade to flatten heavy snow fall.

16's are the best bet for price, and fit nicely on a variety of Grand Marquis and Crown Vic steelies. I forget off hand what size I used, but they were very close to the same runout and height of our stock 18's. It effected the PCM and rev limited only slightly, even with 4:10 gears.

Happy hunting, hope this helps.;)

[Aren Jay]

Your Ding a ding dang song sent me off searching for what I used to listen to:

Venom, Cirith Ungol, Running Wild, (early) Voivod, Judas Priest (green manalishi with the two prong crown - cover), and others.

Back when music had words and a beat.

[rookie1]

16" Pirelli scorpions on cheap but good looking Mustang rims.......best snows I have ever had.

[Aren Jay]

Thing is if i'm going 16" I'm going with studded tires. I spent too many hours sitting on an icey road or parking lot spinning my tires going nowhere in my Mustang. I remember on several occasions getting out and watch the rear tires spin and wondering if I could push it out and get back in before it took off on me.

[Eric91Z]

Thing is if i'm going 16" I'm going with studded tires. I spent too many hours sitting on an icey road or parking lot spinning my tires going nowhere in my Mustang. I remember on several occasions getting out and watch the rear tires spin and wondering if I could push it out and get back in before it took off on me.

Yes, I have been in this saem situation in the past, but that was always with an all-season tire. I have not had that problem with a true, dedicated winter tire. Their construction is such that some of the best non-studded winter tires will do almost as well as studded on pure ice.

Again, I have never had issue with my Pirelli's and the nice thing is when the roads are clear they still drive and wear nicely with no additional noise. Don't think I could handle 6 months of studded tire noise on dry pavement. Also, going with a tire like the Pirelli (or Blizzak, etc) is that you can do as recommend and keep the same tires at all 4 corners.

[Aren Jay]

Why wouldn't you put 4 studded tires on?

[Eric91Z]

Why wouldn't you put 4 studded tires on?

I suppose you could. I guess I wouldn't where I live because we don't have snow on the ground year round and the noise of the studs would probably drive me nuts.

[CRUZTAKER]

Why wouldn't you put 4 studded tires on?


I suppose you could. I guess I wouldn't where I live because we don't have snow on the ground year round and the noise of the studs would probably drive me nuts.


No. Not recommended for a number of reasons.
Use only on the rear in RWD applications. They will annoy the crap out of you on the front and make the car just awfull to drive.

Listen, as hard as it is to believe for some, you may mix different fronts and rears without any issues. I put hundreds of miles on the Marauder, and thousands on the Vic running aggressive Kelly studded on the rear, and Blizzacks on the front.

Ordered correctly on a 16" rim, the tires sit nearly exactly 28" tall, imitating the stck 18's nearly exact.

Here is an old pic, pre-high end DSLR sorry....of the last time I used these wheels/tires. I had just sold them to another member.

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showcase/files/6/2/6/GilWeiner.jpg

[Aren Jay]

What do you mean just awful to drive?

Is this on snow ice or dry pavement?

please explain.

I was thinking studded up front and on the back, on front to help steer on ice, and on the back for traction to get going.

I have driven FWD RWD and AWD on dry snow wet and Icy conditions with and without ABS.

FWD is great for snow or wet but doesn't stop when slippery very well. ABS helps but you still get terrible understeer.

RWD is dicey when slippery at best. Starting is slow and stopping while you can still steer you tend to oversteer all the time. Rainy days in my Mustang Cobra were the worst. The back end broke loose all the time. For snow and ice when you could get started, I have been stuck many times, it was just a careful slow dance always on the edge. In my 94 Firebird it wasn't so bad the ABS made driving in snow ice and wet conditions magical. But getting started consisted of spinning rocking and having someone push you to get going. Crawling is something I remember spending an entire light cycle just trying to get going and turn left. (this was while starting in 2nd gear) In 1st gear it just didnt move. Even with 100lbs of sand in the back.

AWD was even more magical but bred overconfidence. Starting off in snow was not dancing on the edge but dancing around all the RWD cars. My Subie started on ice snow wet or dry pavement the same. No difference. It was slow when it was dry but 10 times faster than any Mustang when icy. Stopping it had no problems on dry or wet conditions, but on ice it just slid like everything else. Only on snow can you power your way around slippery corners. On ice you slide into curbs or do donuts uncontrollably. ABS helps to steering with AWD and ice but it doesn't stop any faster than anything else. AWD also gives you first understeer followed by oversteer. Not the best. Only ever used Blizzak LM-18 tires on my Subaru.

I never have knowingly driven with studded tires. Maybe when I was younger (12 13 14) in our 1966 Mustang but that was ~25 years ago.

[Dragcity]

I would not run studded in the front. Realize, your contact on wet/dry roads is limited. You don't want to sacrifice too much contact to go in the snow.

Seems we clear the roads fairly quickly in snow country. You only need is occasionally. I have the Winterforce - non-studded. They have worked well for me. They are a bit "loose" on wet roads when I get into the throttle.

If RayJay says they are good, you can bet they are. Syracuse gets more snow than Buffalo.....

[Aren Jay]

Yeah that was my worry, no steering on dry roads. I also wondered about the Winterforce grip when wet. I have used Michelin Alpine tires in the wet and slid all over. My Blizzak lm series though did not move an inch when it was wet. They were a bit noisy on dry pavement but the first year in the snow they were great. The second year they were not so good, but then I drove with them year round.

It sounds like the studded option is not so great when there is no ice.

[Dragcity]

It sounds like the studded option is not so great when there is no ice.


Agreed ! Especially in the front.

[CRUZTAKER]

Agreed ! Especially in the front.

Correct. Fronts are not recommended. A good snow tire will bite nicely to allow turning. The possibility of oversteer on dry salty roads is compunded with the stubs if 4wd is absent.

The rears are only an issue if you hop on it when it is dry outside. They are not as noisy, to the passengers, as one might assume.

[Aren Jay]

Now the thing is I have driven with the Blizzak's year round with my subie and I need new summer tires anyway. Do I spend the money on the Blizzaks, LM-25 which are basically an advanced all season, they call it a Performance winter. Or do I spend my money on 16's and rims and hubcaps studded rears only and then buy new 18's in June?

or

Buy the 18's now, and send some money John's way and upgrade my AMP Sub. (current one is unplugged/Dead) and do my SACD DVD NAV Sony Stereo Upgrade. The Blizzaks are also available as 255 55 18 runflats. Only would need a spare for the fronts.

Tunes and Tires for 2 winters and three summers,
or
Better tires for winter and summer tire replacements but sweet silence to hear the engine?

[MyRaider]

Just a thought... the newer CVPIs run 17" Goodyear Eagles.

[Peter]

16" Blizzaks are the way to go.

[Aren Jay]

I guess I can add my vote now.

I just ordered my M&S Studded (rear), snow tires.

Locally I can pick up 16 6.5" 5 bolt 4.5" rims for $50 each.

Hubcaps, nice black ones for $38 for 4.

I need to go pick some of this stuff up today.

The tires should be here by next week.

[Aren Jay]

Well it turned out that Tirerack cannot sell 2 studded tires. They need to sell 4 studded tires or no studded tires. So I have my non studded tires on the way. Who made that stupid rule?

[jaywish]

I just read this in tire rack's site. It is a bit long but on point.

//http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.jsp?ttid=94

Jay

[Aren Jay]

I did see that article but in real world experience both sitting spinning my fancy snow tires on my 86 Mustang GT cobra going nowhere on a slight slope until someone came by and could help push me out, I want studs.

Also driving along at 15 kph under the posted limit on a freshly snow covered icy road I hit the brakes in my Blizzak tired Subaru only to slide uncontrollably down the road for about a 1/4 mile toward a red light and a pedestrian all bundled up, it was -35, he had his hood up his shovel on his shoulder and didn't see me coming. I didn't want to hit him. The ABS brakes meant I could steer, but I couldn't stop. The fancy studless tires just didn't work. I was going 30 mph on a 40 mph road. If there was no snow they would have worked but with an inch of fresh powder I just slid. I eventually stopped, the pedestrian unknowingly walked right infront of me and I steered around him, luckily I wasn't going 40 mph.

[DetroitMarauder]

Bah... instead of new tires just buy an old beater.

I did, cost me $1000, Pontiac Grand AM's are cheap!

I gave my Lincoln to my Dad and I was wondering the same thing as you about driving my MM in the snow. Should I get snow tires???

I figure a beater car for an extra couple of bucks was worth it rather than subjecting my baby to any more salt.