GM out on strike!!

[MERCMAN]

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/070924/auto_talks.html?.v=22


OK Ford, get some deals moving to become #2 again :up:

[1of327]

It's funny how the stocks inceased. I am not a fan of Unions in any way. It only lends to the outsourcing of jobs to foreign countries because American Joe wants $28.00 an hour to move a robitic arm on an assembly line.:soap:

[offroadkarter]

It only lends to the outsourcing of jobs to foreign countries because American Joe wants $28.00 an hour to move a robitic arm on an assembly line.:soap:

Thats very true in every way.

This is ford's chance to get back in the game

[MarauderTJA]

And you wonder why the American auto industry is going downhill:mad:. Saw on the news that a UAW worker makes $26-28 more an hour than the Japanese at Toyota and Honda. I'm for good wages for our people, but concessions really need to be made.

[Ken]

It's funny how the stocks inceased. I am not a fan of Unions in any way. It only lends to the outsourcing of jobs to foreign countries because American Joe wants $28.00 an hour to move a robitic arm on an assembly line.:soap:Have you ever worked on an Assembly Line? If You want to bust your a$$, for peanuts, be my guest. I put in my 30 years of jobs being cut and overloaded every year. Labor is just 10% of a vehicles cost. How would you like it if I said that you are overpaid and that your job should be outsourced to a foriegn country?:soap:

Ken

[Ken]

And you wonder why the American auto industry is going downhill:mad:. Saw on the news that a UAW worker makes $26-28 more an hour than the Japanese at Toyota and Honda. I'm for good wages for our people, but concessions really need to be made.Good for them! The Japanese must be working for free, since the Autoworkers are only making $26-28/hr.

Ken

[RCSignals]

GM did threaten last week that a strike would force them to move more manufacturing overseas.
I guess we'll see how serious they were.

[jgc61sr2002]

This could be the end of General Motors as we know it.l

[1of327]

Have you ever worked on an Assembly Line? If You want to bust your a$$, for peanuts, be my guest. I put in my 30 years of jobs being cut and overloaded every year. Labor is just 10% of a vehicles cost. How would you like it if I said that you are overpaid and that your job should be outsourced to a foriegn country?:soap:

Ken

I have ... For Black and decker before they closed the Hampstead plant.. only to open another in Mexico.

[Ken]

I have ... For Black and decker before they closed the Hampstead plant.. only to open another in Mexico.And you had the B**** to make the comment that you did??????:confused:

Ken

[1of327]

I do understand your position, Believe it or not... But I also believe that Unions had their place, and now a great majority of Union Houses are just trying to exploit any situation that they can at any given point...It May not be UAW, I just know that most are forced into joining a union, have due's taken, and nothing do to benefit the person/ or group that they are sanctioned to defend.

[offroadkarter]

This could be the end of General Motors as we know it.l

BULLLLL


They are on the top for the american car companies, i think on the highest selling list GM is above dodge and ford, the new silverado and tahoe's are really becoming a big hit, i see them everywhere.

[Ken]

BULLLLL


They are on the top for the american car companies, i think on the highest selling list GM is above dodge and ford, the new silverado and tahoe's are really becoming a big hit, i see them everywhere.Another reason for GM to move production to Japan, where they must work for free. (see earlier post.)

Ken

[cruzer]

I feel that I must say a little something about this. I put in 32 years with a BIG company. I was a member of the union B of D for almost half that time. I saw over 5 contracts through negotiations. I have been retired for 20 years. Over the years, at every contract negotiation , we were given an idea by the Company of just how much money was available, and we made the decisions as to where we wanted it. There are people who say we never contributed anything towards our retirement benefits---you are soooooo wrong. We gave up pay raises, perks, working conditions to insure that our retirements were adequately funded. The Company was allowed, by Federal guidlines, to underfund these programs and use these funds for other purposes, even when the Company was making a lot of money---no money was put aside to cover the short-fall in the retirement fund. Now, the Company is screaming that retiree benefits will put them in bankrupcy---if they had properly funded them, they wouldn't have this problem.
I am 78 years old, receive a Social Security check of $ 1040 and pay a monthly fee for my Medicare, Parts A, B, and D. The Company medical doesn't pay anything if Medicare covers the required payment--the health care giver loses-the tax-payer loses and the retiree is caught in the middle. The Union has made Catastrophic Medical available at a reasonable price--I have paid into it for over 25 years, so I'm not in any danger--but God help the poor peon who works his butt off for a company led by executives that think nothing of taking Golden Parachutes in the $$$$$millions. One execs package would keep thousands of workers employed to make quality products that would increase the company's profits. Get off the retirees and workers backs . If you think one man is worth $125 Million for doing his job for a few years, don't you think the persons who worked for 30 years and made it possible for him to have a job should have a little consideration???.
I watched this nation come from a peaceful, mostly privately owned businesses country turn into a War production machine never to be equalled in all of history--and it was done, not by the execs, but by the working man. I know there were a lot of rotten eggs and opportunists in the union higher echelons, but the time has come to make the companies liable for the business decisions they make---not reward those who made the bad decisions. Nobody is lily-white in any business, but something has got to be done to protect the working class, or we will be back to the very rich and the very poor---no middle-class. A nation cannot survive without the working people---it hasn't worked in the past and it won't work now.
Now, I have spoken my opinion. I know there will be many who disagree, but I challenge them to refute anything I have said---been there, seen it all. I can only pray that National Leadership and the Companys will come to there senses. We will not survive as a strong nation very much longer---but thats no a problem for me ;)--Good nite all, Maury

[Aren Jay]

1. Anybody can fail.

2. Unions can cripple companys especially when there is an economic downturn brewing. Look at England in the 70's.

3. This isn't just GM USA, this is all of GM, GM Canada, GM Mexico, GM USA. The rest of Gm will follow suit shortly and maybe it will fold, depends how long this strike lasts.

4. Company's are greedy and executives are the greediest people in a company.

5. Big problems happen when laws let them happen, if you don't like it change those who make the laws.

6. Health care in Canada is not free, we pay for it with higher taxes, and we pay some of it each year, depends how much you make. If you are poor it is free, sort of, but the middle class pays for health care just like the rich. General health care in Canada is not very good. The care you get is pretty good, but unless you pay extra it is not really good. However companies do not pay huge amounts for healthcare in Canada and don't have to worry about going broke when retiring workers. Mind you my Parent(s) still get 95% of their drugs paid for by Imperial Oil and have no health care costs other than what comes from taxes. Sort out your countries health care and you don't have to live with your current system.

7. If you don't have a good retirement fund, make your own. Do what the rich people do and put your money away and in such a way that it will work for you. Off Road Karter has a chance to be the retired at 45, millionaire. All he has to do is want to be. Invest, smartly, save money, do not spend it. Live on a small level and don't waste money on things you can get for free. Don't buy magazines, don't buy books (that is what your library is for, free books, free magazines, you can even get videos and music at Librarys now.) Don't be miserable but don't go drinking or smoke dope or pay for girls/boys/company You don't need to do that to have fun. Even us older people can still get by with lots of money, less than Karter but with enough without relying on others to do it for us.

8. Don't build up debt. Pay cash if possible. Budget, live within your means. Living debt free is great. Saving money and having money is great. Having your money make you money is great. Take a business course, adult education. If you must have the good stuff in life, live 10 or 20 years in the past. You can be the millionaire by living with the good stuff from 1987.

9. Stay educated, even if you have a good job, stay educated. Take night or weekend courses and stay up to date. You never know when you are going to need to know something new and modern and if you don't you might end up losing everything.

10. Pay off your debt, house car etc... Pay it off fast, as fast as possible. If you have a 25 or 30 or 40 or even 50 year mortgage save money while making your minimal payments. Don't spend the extra money. If you make 50K a year and have 12K a year mortage payments, make them. Put 10K a year away and in 5 years or 10 years pay off your mortgage.

Anyway most of this is directed to Offroad Karter and those his age, the rest of us know this, have planned ahead (hopefully). If I only knew now, all this when I was 22. I would be a Millionaire right now, retired permanently and not looking like I will have to work till I'm 45 before I retire premanently.

[Ken]

I feel that I must say a little something about this. I put in 32 years with a BIG company. I was a member of the union B of D for almost half that time. I saw over 5 contracts through negotiations. I have been retired for 20 years. Over the years, at every contract negotiation , we were given an idea by the Company of just how much money was available, and we made the decisions as to where we wanted it. There are people who say we never contributed anything towards our retirement benefits---you are soooooo wrong. We gave up pay raises, perks, working conditions to insure that our retirements were adequately funded. The Company was allowed, by Federal guidlines, to underfund these programs and use these funds for other purposes, even when the Company was making a lot of money---no money was put aside to cover the short-fall in the retirement fund. Now, the Company is screaming that retiree benefits will put them in bankrupcy---if they had properly funded them, they wouldn't have this problem.
I am 78 years old, receive a Social Security check of $ 1040 and pay a monthly fee for my Medicare, Parts A, B, and D. The Company medical doesn't pay anything if Medicare covers the required payment--the health care giver loses-the tax-payer loses and the retiree is caught in the middle. The Union has made Catastrophic Medical available at a reasonable price--I have paid into it for over 25 years, so I'm not in any danger--but God help the poor peon who works his butt off for a company led by executives that think nothing of taking Golden Parachutes in the $$$$$millions. One execs package would keep thousands of workers employed to make quality products that would increase the company's profits. Get off the retirees and workers backs . If you think one man is worth $125 Million for doing his job for a few years, don't you think the persons who worked for 30 years and made it possible for him to have a job should have a little consideration???.
I watched this nation come from a peaceful, mostly privately owned businesses country turn into a War production machine never to be equalled in all of history--and it was done, not by the execs, but by the working man. I know there were a lot of rotten eggs and opportunists in the union higher echelons, but the time has come to make the companies liable for the business decisions they make---not reward those who made the bad decisions. Nobody is lily-white in any business, but something has got to be done to protect the working class, or we will be back to the very rich and the very poor---no middle-class. A nation cannot survive without the working people---it hasn't worked in the past and it won't work now.
Now, I have spoken my opinion. I know there will be many who disagree, but I challenge them to refute anything I have said---been there, seen it all. I can only pray that National Leadership and the Companys will come to there senses. We will not survive as a strong nation very much longer---but thats no a problem for me ;)--Good nite all, MauryAmen, Maury! Well said!

Ken

[1of327]

I am now enlightened, as I have not been around as many years as some of you fellows. I apologize if my ignorant, un-substantiated rant offended. You are completely right Maury, as this contry was built upon the backs of the lower, and middle working class that gets over looked, and taken for granted too often. When Mr Decker died, several of the executives @ B & D were given th " Golden Parachute" route of retirement, and so ended the general productivity, and americanism of the Company. Very sad to see companys like Black and Decker Beth Steel, Ford, Chrysler, even Walmart, look elsewhere for labor, and production.

[sailsmen]

A secure retirement is called a 401K. There are numerous other vehicles such as IRA.

I have rarely made ore than a UAW worker. I maxed out my 401K every year since 1991 and sold my houseswhen the real estate market was up.

I now have a new house in an upper middle class neighborhood that is paid for and the balance of my retirement is funding a new business.

My wife worked part time w/ little savings. We are a family of 4.

Rlying on others for your retirement is just that relying on others.

In the 1950's there were 16.5 people working for every person on SS. In 2040 there will be 2.5 people working for every person on SS.

I am going to build up the new business and contribute the max to several retirement vehicles to recoup my retirement that was used as capital.

The government, politicians and the unions want you to be dependent on them. An ignorant population is subjegated to your will.

This is why there is little teaching about civics, retirement, personal financing, self defense, business law .......

[quota]

The main problem here is our individualism. It sets the limits to our responsibility. Things are going bad ? Blame the management. Blame the unions. Blame the government. Or the Mexicans. And the Chineses. But never blame yourself !

In Asia, they have a collective view and behave accordingly. There is their strength. And that is how they can build (or make building) a Lexus with 26-28 $ an hour.

JP

[MarauderTJA]

I feel that I must say a little something about this. I put in 32 years with a BIG company. I was a member of the union B of D for almost half that time. I saw over 5 contracts through negotiations. I have been retired for 20 years. Over the years, at every contract negotiation , we were given an idea by the Company of just how much money was available, and we made the decisions as to where we wanted it. There are people who say we never contributed anything towards our retirement benefits---you are soooooo wrong. We gave up pay raises, perks, working conditions to insure that our retirements were adequately funded. The Company was allowed, by Federal guidlines, to underfund these programs and use these funds for other purposes, even when the Company was making a lot of money---no money was put aside to cover the short-fall in the retirement fund. Now, the Company is screaming that retiree benefits will put them in bankrupcy---if they had properly funded them, they wouldn't have this problem.
I am 78 years old, receive a Social Security check of $ 1040 and pay a monthly fee for my Medicare, Parts A, B, and D. The Company medical doesn't pay anything if Medicare covers the required payment--the health care giver loses-the tax-payer loses and the retiree is caught in the middle. The Union has made Catastrophic Medical available at a reasonable price--I have paid into it for over 25 years, so I'm not in any danger--but God help the poor peon who works his butt off for a company led by executives that think nothing of taking Golden Parachutes in the $$$$$millions. One execs package would keep thousands of workers employed to make quality products that would increase the company's profits. Get off the retirees and workers backs . If you think one man is worth $125 Million for doing his job for a few years, don't you think the persons who worked for 30 years and made it possible for him to have a job should have a little consideration???.
I watched this nation come from a peaceful, mostly privately owned businesses country turn into a War production machine never to be equalled in all of history--and it was done, not by the execs, but by the working man. I know there were a lot of rotten eggs and opportunists in the union higher echelons, but the time has come to make the companies liable for the business decisions they make---not reward those who made the bad decisions. Nobody is lily-white in any business, but something has got to be done to protect the working class, or we will be back to the very rich and the very poor---no middle-class. A nation cannot survive without the working people---it hasn't worked in the past and it won't work now.
Now, I have spoken my opinion. I know there will be many who disagree, but I challenge them to refute anything I have said---been there, seen it all. I can only pray that National Leadership and the Companys will come to there senses. We will not survive as a strong nation very much longer---but thats no a problem for me ;)--Good nite all, Maury

Extremely well written, I applaude your Maury!

[DJCV]

1. Anybody can fail.

2. Unions can cripple companys especially when there is an economic downturn brewing. Look at England in the 70's.

3. This isn't just GM USA, this is all of GM, GM Canada, GM Mexico, GM USA. The rest of Gm will follow suit shortly and maybe it will fold, depends how long this strike lasts.

4. Company's are greedy and executives are the greediest people in a company.

5. Big problems happen when laws let them happen, if you don't like it change those who make the laws.

6. Health care in Canada is not free, we pay for it with higher taxes, and we pay some of it each year, depends how much you make. If you are poor it is free, sort of, but the middle class pays for health care just like the rich. General health care in Canada is not very good. The care you get is pretty good, but unless you pay extra it is not really good. However companies do not pay huge amounts for healthcare in Canada and don't have to worry about going broke when retiring workers. Mind you my Parent(s) still get 95% of their drugs paid for by Imperial Oil and have no health care costs other than what comes from taxes. Sort out your countries health care and you don't have to live with your current system.

7. If you don't have a good retirement fund, make your own. Do what the rich people do and put your money away and in such a way that it will work for you. Off Road Karter has a chance to be the retired at 45, millionaire. All he has to do is want to be. Invest, smartly, save money, do not spend it. Live on a small level and don't waste money on things you can get for free. Don't buy magazines, don't buy books (that is what your library is for, free books, free magazines, you can even get videos and music at Librarys now.) Don't be miserable but don't go drinking or smoke dope or pay for girls/boys/company You don't need to do that to have fun. Even us older people can still get by with lots of money, less than Karter but with enough without relying on others to do it for us.

8. Don't build up debt. Pay cash if possible. Budget, live within your means. Living debt free is great. Saving money and having money is great. Having your money make you money is great. Take a business course, adult education. If you must have the good stuff in life, live 10 or 20 years in the past. You can be the millionaire by living with the good stuff from 1987.

9. Stay educated, even if you have a good job, stay educated. Take night or weekend courses and stay up to date. You never know when you are going to need to know something new and modern and if you don't you might end up losing everything.

10. Pay off your debt, house car etc... Pay it off fast, as fast as possible. If you have a 25 or 30 or 40 or even 50 year mortgage save money while making your minimal payments. Don't spend the extra money. If you make 50K a year and have 12K a year mortage payments, make them. Put 10K a year away and in 5 years or 10 years pay off your mortgage.

Anyway most of this is directed to Offroad Karter and those his age, the rest of us know this, have planned ahead (hopefully). If I only knew now, all this when I was 22. I would be a Millionaire right now, retired permanently and not looking like I will have to work till I'm 45 before I retire premanently.

Well stated.

[gmtech]

have not been able to get parts the last couple of days to fix the customers vehicles:(...all we do is diagnose and call customer when parts become avail....very pissed off customers

[cruzer]

I got to bed after midnite last nite and slept like a baby--took the Marauder in for a 80,000 mile check--had to replace the A/C contoller--$ 850 + labor--that worthless 100,000 warranty paid off for the 3rd time.Anyhow, I feel I should finish my post.
Those who know me personally, know I am very happily retired. I contributed 11 % of my gross salary in addition to the company contribution for 25 years. Our union contract required the company to transfer 100 % of the contractually calculated retirement funds into an account controlled by the union---no stocks, etc---just cash. Within that account, every employee received a credit for all his funds based on his monthly pay. This account was not available for ANY union functions--all money stayed in the account til you retired. We paid dues to support union activities--there was NO strike fund. We had the option for full cash disbursement at retirement. I retired after 32 years with over $ 1,000,000 in cash. I have invested wisely and am very comfortable with what I have.
Seeing what is happening to the labor force is a loooong history of company underfunding and union mismanagement, we have arrived at the present point--uncertainity for the employee--widely fluctuating markets are playing havoc with the companies---no one is winning. If the company management and union leadership would only quit playin God with worker's lives, and realize happy American workers in modern plants can out-produce any other workers with the same profits for the company. It's up to you young folks to stand up and be counted by putting good people in government , company management and unions. You need to get your priorities in line--you Will get OLD and only YOU can make a good retirement happen. As others have said, personal responsibility for your actions is a must--quit blaming others--you're smart and talented--go for a healthy and happy future--the ball is in your court---GOOD LUCK, Pop-Pop 'Rauder

[J-MAN]

It's funny how the stocks inceased. I am not a fan of Unions in any way. It only lends to the outsourcing of jobs to foreign countries because American Joe wants $28.00 an hour to move a robitic arm on an assembly line.:soap:

Right on!! Let's get rid of all those good paying jobs! Forget about owning your own home! College for your kids? Forget about it! McDonalds is always looking for help! Let's pit the American workers against one another so they don't notice that this is the only industrialized country on the planet that doesn't have a manufacturing policy! Free Trade? You bet! The Peoples Republic of China sends us cheap goods to open more Dollar stores(do I hear job opportunity?) and we send them the best paying jobs on the planet. It's all a distraction so we don't notice that the middle class is being eliminated because all to many jerks parrot what they see on tv in twenty second news clips.

Just my.02 worth.

Have a nice day!

[Ken]

Right on!! Let's get rid of all those good paying jobs! Forget about owning your own home! College for your kids? Forget about it! McDonalds is always looking for help! Let's pit the American workers against one another so they don't notice that this is the only industrialized country on the planet that doesn't have a manufacturing policy! Free Trade? You bet! The Peoples Republic of China sends us cheap goods to open more Dollar stores(do I hear job opportunity?) and we send them the best paying jobs on the planet. It's all a distraction so we don't notice that the middle class is being eliminated because all to many jerks parrot what they see on tv in twenty second news clips.

Just my.02 worth.

Have a nice day!well said! We can all survive on a bunch of low paying part time jobs apiece, if we can find them.

Ken

[MERCMAN]

Paper or plastic?

[sicilianmarquis]

+ 1 on kens comment, i was on the assembly line for a 250K dollar Supercar and busted my ass and health to do it, and i didnt get paid ****.

[1of327]

Then I guess collectively, Americans need to speak their minds on something other sports figures, and pop stars, and take the F%$KING GOVERNMENT HOSTAGE FOR THE DUMB S&^T THAT THEY ENDORSE AND PROMISE TO DO AND NEVER FOLLOW UP ON. get ride of all those crooked bastards , and then we would have a shot. I never watch the news for anything other than the weather because of the obvious biast that they have toward one side picture that they portray.

[J-MAN]

Then I guess collectively, Americans need to speak their minds on something other sports figures, and pop stars, and take the F%$KING GOVERNMENT HOSTAGE FOR THE DUMB S&^T THAT THEY ENDORSE AND PROMISE TO DO AND NEVER FOLLOW UP ON. get ride of all those crooked bastards , and then we would have a shot. I never watch the news for anything other than the weather because of the obvious biast that they have toward one side picture that they portray.

WELL...........Now yer talkin. We put them in office and never hold them accountable
Not that I was particularly bright in my youth, but back then I never thought that there could ever be another country to rival the US in it's standard of living as we consumed such a high percentage of the natural resources of the planet. I never even concidered that the government would sell out our childrens future.

Bring on the fish heads and rice:help:

[sailsmen]

As humankind rises to stay on top you have to stay on top!

Other countries infrastructure and workforce have improved from hunting a meal in the jungle to raising bananas to bolting parts on an assembly line.

We need to do what they cannot inorder to stay on top. Bolting parts on an assembly line will not stay on top.

We have all benefitted enourmously from this. If we had closed borders to imports how much would the computer I am typing on cost, $10K or $20K? How much would the out fit I am wearing costs $500? The Marauder $75K? The dinner I am about to eat?

[sicilianmarquis]

so help other countries before we help ourselves thats the new american way right>?? is that what your saying? what about my stomach? i bust my ass all day and dont get paid ****, and what do i get out of it?i get a " you do not apply for financial aid" email. so they can give my tax money to Habeeb??? sohe can goto school? my Grandparents came here from Sicily 2 generations ago and guess what..... my family is still busting our asses. when am i gunna live the "american dream" they rather give it to Habeeb, then an american

[RedMerc04]

so help other countries before we help ourselves thats the new american way right>?? is that what your saying? what about my stomach? i bust my ass all day and dont get paid ****, and what do i get out of it?i get a " you do not apply for financial aid" email. so they can give my tax money to Habeeb??? sohe can goto school? my Grandparents came here from Sicily 2 generations ago and guess what..... my family is still busting our asses. when am i gunna live the "american dream" they rather give it to Habeeb, then an american
Same here, I am currently working through college and being a white middle class american I get absolutely nothing in the way of Financial aid for tuition or books where as those who dont even speak english get free books and tuition. Not for nothing but my father and grandfathers actually served this country (WW2 & Vietnam) and I get ***** where as if I were to have showed up yesterday I would get everything handed to me! Its bull*****! And its not like these new immigrants would ever fight for this country or do anything positive.. they just suck up our jobs and money and still have the nerve to complain! I think the working middle class should make our own country... lets see how far the illegal ailens, liberals, and welfare suckers alike get without us and our money. :mad2:

[Aren Jay]

As humankind rises to stay on top you have to stay on top!

Other countries infrastructure and workforce have improved from hunting a meal in the jungle to raising bananas to bolting parts on an assembly line.

We need to do what they cannot inorder to stay on top. Bolting parts on an assembly line will not stay on top.

We have all benefitted enourmously from this. If we had closed borders to imports how much would the computer I am typing on cost, $10K or $20K? How much would the out fit I am wearing costs $500? The Marauder $75K? The dinner I am about to eat?


The Maruader would not cost $75K. The Marauder would not be available to you. The Marauder was made in Canada. On the otherhand, the Marauder would have cost you $48K if you bought it from Canada and imported it to the USA.

[sailsmen]

Thanks for the info. The point is if the Marauder including everything in it were made in the US the cost would be prohibitive for most of the members.

When man had no infrastructure or currency his trade was limited to how far he could walk/carry. With the wheel how far he could push.

Now we have huge ships bigger than the Empire State Building being operated by a small crew transporting goods thousands of miles.

The English had an Empire to take raw resources from it's Colonies at low prices, turned them into finished goods by it's own Citizens and sold them back to the Colonists at inflated prices.

[sailsmen]

so help other countries before we help ourselves thats the new american way right>?? is that what your saying? what about my stomach? i bust my ass all day and dont get paid ****, and what do i get out of it?i get a " you do not apply for financial aid" email. so they can give my tax money to Habeeb??? sohe can goto school? my Grandparents came here from Sicily 2 generations ago and guess what..... my family is still busting our asses. when am i gunna live the "american dream" they rather give it to Habeeb, then an american

Whats great about this Country is when you live the American Dream is mostly up to you.

Working hard and working smart are 2 different things. If you are not getting paid what you are worth then that is your fault.

In 2005 I know of many a young man who took a course to become an adjuster and made over $200K for one year of work. Some spent it and others are using it to start a new business.

I know of many a person who has made money in realestate.

There are many opportunities to make money and live the American Dream.

[Aren Jay]

Why don't you put all your illegal immigrants to work, in the army. You can tell them they will either join up or be hunted down and shipped back to Mexico or Canada or China or where ever. They serve in your Army for 5 years and they can stay in the USA (and pay taxes).

You will either have a mass migration to Mexico or your army will start speaking Spanish. All you American Citizens can leave Iraq and Afganistan and you could even ponder invading Iran. Your army could swell by 10 million and still be paid the same, and all the returning citizens can get jobs with the defense contractors making new M16's and Grenades.

After 5 years you get 10 million Spanish speaking citizens walking around plus their families. 15 million more tax payers. Then you employ them to patrol the borders and you gain a more secure and better country.

[Bluerauder]

Why don't you put all your illegal immigrants to work, in the army. You can tell them they will either join up or be hunted down and shipped back to Mexico or Canada or China or where ever. They serve in your Army for 5 years and they can stay in the USA (and pay taxes).

You have gotta to be kidding, right?? :rolleyes: Just what the US Army needs is another social experiment. I take it that you have never worn a uniform, have you??

[Marauderjack]

Why don't you put all your illegal immigrants to work, in the army.

A million Mexicans with M-16's speaking only Spanish creates a VERY UGLY PICTURE in my mind!!!!!:argue::cool:

Marauderjack:shake:

[sailsmen]

For what it's worth a guy from Boliva who I knew in school went to college during Vietnam. He told me a friend of his who was from Bolivia and of indian heritage as a resident was conscripted and sent to Vietnam.

He was in an intelligence unit and he was able to communicate with the indians. The languages were similar.

My friends family's insurance company was shown by 60 minutes as insuring a plane owned by a general suspected of being in the drug trade. My friend was trying to find an attorney to make 60 minutes issue a retraction but no attorney would touch it.

There were students from Nigeria, Finland, Japan, Red China, Argentina, Brazil, Chile and so on. I learned alot from them. I learned how fortunate we are in the US and how valuable freedom is.

Some of the things they told me were quite shocking as respects their observations about how we tolerate criminal and antisocial behavior. This was NYC pre Mayor Guilani

[sicilianmarquis]

and sailsmen, you are probuly speaking from people whoove been handed most the things to them growing up, who get the oppertunity to go to bug universitys, while people like me, didnt have parents who paid for everything so , while i was in highschool supposed to be studying and all that ****, were was i ?????? at work working 48 hrs a ****in week.and now i try to better myself and i still get oppressed??? and now you have the balls to say so im stupid??

[sailsmen]

I am not saying you are stupid. No where have I indicated this. Working hard is no guarranty of happiness or obtaining the American Dream.

What I am saying is so long as you blame others for being unhappy or for not having your American Dream you will probably never have the American Dream.

"Working smart" is a saying meaning working towards a goal, it has nothing to do with being smart or stupid.

The example I gave about the adjusters, they all worked very hard. One I know bought a new Corvette and put the rest in a savings account. Another one used it to start a business.

I suggest you figure out what your American Dream is and work towards achieving it.

It is difficult to communicate over the internet. 1/2 of communication is visual.

[2003 MIB]

It is difficult to communicate over the internet. 1/2 of communication is visual.

Amen. It's pretty easy to project your feelings into what you are reading too.