Metric Time.

[Aren Jay]

In my search for the French 20 hour clock, that Rick Mercer keeps mentioning in his Talking to Americans show. I couldn't find anything aobut the 20 Hour clock.

I did however find a Metric time site:

http://zapatopi.net/metrictime/

All of us Metric Countries should adopt Metric time.

It only makes sense.

[RCSignals]

it's a joke, right?

These days you never know

[B.C. Bake]

Don't trust the french.:lol:

[hdwrenchtx]

why would a metric clock be 20 hours (not that i believe there is one)

everything else metric is based on 10's

[Aren Jay]

Metric clock is 10 hours, well not hours but decidays.

Metric clocks make sense, if going metric they should be metric. Not sure how time zones would work, there would be 10, 1 million metres eachat the equator. Then you would use centidays and milidays for measurements. Not sure what angular degrees would be like though.

But if a country goes metric then it should completely go metric.

http://archives.cbc.ca/IDC-1-75-1572-10610/science_technology/metric_system/clip1

2nd week of April 2008, the 213th anniversary of metric measurements, we should swtich on that week.

[RCSignals]

it's insane.

the whole metric system is insanity.

[Aren Jay]

How many fingers (and thumbs) do you have?

Do you count in decimals or in octimals?

0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 20 ...

or is it the

0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 A B 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 1A 1B 20 ...

you perfer.

Maybe it is the base 60 (in decimal form) that you like better. Only it only goes so far then you use Metric time again. How many sub second times have you seen in 10.2 seconds.

That is 10/60 and 2/10's of a second.

Why not have it written in your base 60 Minoan Babylonian form. 10 12th seconds.

Instead you could just say 118 microdays or 118 mikes.

[Bluerauder]

it's a joke, right?

These days you never know
Seems like another effort to fix something that isn't broken. The whole idea was probably dreamt up by math challenged folks that have trouble multiplying and dividing by 24 and 60. :rolleyes: Yeah, let's make the whole world change to suit our vision of time and space. If this ain't a joke, it should be.

[oldekid]

How many sub second times have you seen in 10.2 seconds.

That is 10/60 and 2/10's of a minute.
Isn't 10.2 = 10 seconds plus 2/10 of a second, not 2/10 of a minute?

Not that I'm actually keeping up with this, but that looked just wrong to me.

:lol:

[Leadfoot281]

Magazines measure things like rear seat leg room and wheel base in tenths of inches. They use stats like 124.3" or 34.7" :rolleyes:

Who else uses 10th's of inches?

[Taemian]

Magazines measure things like rear seat leg room and wheel base in tenths of inches. They use stats like 124.3" or 34.7" :rolleyes:

Who else uses 10th's of inches?

AMERICAN magazines use Imperial weights and measures...the rest of the world uses metric. Even horsepower is measured as kilowatts by magazines AND manufacturers in the other parts of the world.:)

[Leadfoot281]

That may be true, but have you ever looked at an "imperial" tape measure? Show me where it has markings for 10th's of inches.

I just remodeled my bathroom. I made cuts of 44.5" and 36 3/4" and 12 5/8th's" . I never made a single cut at 15.8" or 23.4". My tape measure breaks the inch into 16 seperate increments. 1/16, 2/16, 3/16, ect. Even so, my bathroom turned out great! Go figure..

I honestly have no idea how long 12.6" is. 12 1/2 is close, but 12 5/8th's is probably too much.

I would absolutely love to take a close look at one of the tape measures these various car magazines use. Other than these magazines, I have never seen anyone, anywhere, (even here in America) use tenths of inches as a form of measurement.

[Taemian]

Ummm.... Nobody DOES use tenths of inches that I've seen... we use the metric equivilant, as in centimeters/milimeters. There is no such thing as tenths of inches. Try to google a metric conversion program and go from there.
Metric is much more logical than imperial. Everything is in base 10s. Yeah, I can see how that is a real stretch to figure out, especially with 10 fingers.
10 milimeters = 1 centimeter ... 100 centimeters= 1 meter ... 1000 meters = 1 kilometer.
Now I grew up with Imperial, Canada changed to Metric in 1980, so I have used both and can tell you that Metric is much better and more accurate. Your military snipers serving in Iraq and A-stan are just switching away from mil-dots to mil-rads (metric) and they love the speed/ease/flexibility of dividing/multipying by 10. If guys who are under great pressure to keep themselves alive use it, hey, can it be that bad?

Simply put, if you think a system in which you basically learn to move the decimal point is too hard to learn....yikes! :-) I'm still confused about how many quarts in a yard, though, so maybe it's just me. :-)

[Aren Jay]

Edmunds uses 10th of an inch.

http://www.edmunds.com/used/2004/mercury/marauder/100295077/specs.html

[Leadfoot281]

Ummm.... Nobody DOES use tenths of inches that I've seen... we use the metric equivilant, as in centimeters/milimeters. There is no such thing as tenths of inches. Try to google a metric conversion program and go from there.
Metric is much more logical than imperial. Everything is in base 10s. Yeah, I can see how that is a real stretch to figure out, especially with 10 fingers.
10 milimeters = 1 centimeter ... 100 centimeters= 1 meter ... 1000 meters = 1 kilometer.
Now I grew up with Imperial, Canada changed to Metric in 1980, so I have used both and can tell you that Metric is much better and more accurate. Your military snipers serving in Iraq and A-stan are just switching away from mil-dots to mil-rads (metric) and they love the speed/ease/flexibility of dividing/multipying by 10. If guys who are under great pressure to keep themselves alive use it, hey, can it be that bad?

Simply put, if you think a system in which you basically learn to move the decimal point is too hard to learn....yikes! :-) I'm still confused about how many quarts in a yard, though, so maybe it's just me. :-)

I quit counting on my fingers about 30 years ago. For the record, I've never said anything bad about the metric system. There is absolutely nothing confusing about it.

I just think that 10th's of inches are a stupid way to measure stuff. That's all I've been trying to get across in this thread. :shake:

[Taemian]

In that case, we agree totally! It makes no sense to use decimal points in imperial measurements. Maybe Edmonds is trying to sneak the Metric system in a little bit at a time? Sneaky!:)

[RCSignals]

Ummm.... Nobody DOES use tenths of inches that I've seen... we use the metric equivilant, as in centimeters/milimeters. There is no such thing as tenths of inches. Try to google a metric conversion program and go from there.
Metric is much more logical than imperial. Everything is in base 10s. Yeah, I can see how that is a real stretch to figure out, especially with 10 fingers.
10 milimeters = 1 centimeter ... 100 centimeters= 1 meter ... 1000 meters = 1 kilometer.
Now I grew up with Imperial, Canada changed to Metric in 1980, so I have used both and can tell you that Metric is much better and more accurate. Your military snipers serving in Iraq and A-stan are just switching away from mil-dots to mil-rads (metric) and they love the speed/ease/flexibility of dividing/multipying by 10. If guys who are under great pressure to keep themselves alive use it, hey, can it be that bad?

Simply put, if you think a system in which you basically learn to move the decimal point is too hard to learn....yikes! :-) I'm still confused about how many quarts in a yard, though, so maybe it's just me. :-)

Tenths of the inch are typically used in Engineering.

and decimals are commonly used in 'Imperial' measurement

There was absolutely no need for a change to the Metric system. At the time of the big push to change it was not the most widely used system, and there was, still is, more than one 'Metric' system.

Metric measurement is not more accurate, a measurement is a measurement.

[Bluerauder]

it's insane.

the whole metric system is insanity.
It was a conspiracy by the tool companies to get us to buy two complete sets of wrenches and sockets. ;)

[Taemian]

Tenths of the inch are typically used in Engineering.

and decimals are commonly used in 'Imperial' measurement


There was absolutely no need for a change to the Metric system. At the time of the big push to change it was not the most widely used system, and there was, still is, more than one 'Metric' system.

Metric measurement is not more accurate, a measurement is a measurement.

You are completely right on one thing! I misspoke, of course you are right saying that all measuring systems are accurate. By accuracy, I meant to imply that a single unit should always be the same. For instance, I've seen things measured in fluid ounces, Troy ounces and Avoirdupois ounces. Measuring weights in the metric systems is either weight, OR volume, and each has a single type of unit. You never have to ask "Which type of unit?"

As for change, check out your own "Metric Act", it's quite interesting. But the metric system was actually the most widely system when it was proposed (in full) to the USA. Also, now 95% of the world's countries (who comprise 70% of the world population) are using the metric system. That sounds like the majority to me. I am confused when you mention "more than one metric system". What do you mean? :eek:

[MENINBLK]

The Postal Service uses a clock based on 100 units per hour.

12:00 AM = 0.00 hour.
12:30 AM = 0.50 hour.

It takes a little time to adjust to it.
Each unit is 36 seconds.

[Aren Jay]

Methinks he meant that the metric system uses the pound and that there is more than one type or kind of pound.

Metric pound is a European measure of 2 metric pounds = 1 kg.

while 2.2 Imperial pounds = 1 kg.

and 2.2 American pounds = 1 kg.

Or maybe he meant two Imperial systems? The Imperial and the American?

but then why does the USA use metric money?

So $135.97 what was that the old way?

Even the British are changing over to metric.

[Bluerauder]

Even the British are changing over to metric.
But there was just a decision in the European Union that the Brits are sticking with the Pound, Shilling, and Pence monetary system. They are not converting that ............

[Aren Jay]

but that swtiched from the 144 pence pound to the decimal 100 pence pound a while back, before i was ever there, in 1989.

[ChiefUnlimited]

Hi all, Haven't been around much, but i've been occasionally lurking in the shadows, reading posts on the site. Mostly since i spent all my mod money on a new garage foundation this summer, dealing with someone else's poor site prep is a terrible thing...

Anyway, i thought i'd put in my 2 cents on this subject;

I've done a bit of design engineering and thermodynamic calculating and in my opinion, i've actually found imperial measurements to be easier for that sort of thing. Using metric measurements you usually end up with "exponent soup".

I've run metric steam plants, and after a while, still find myself mentally converting pressures and temps. Flow rates? forget it. I guess as long as the feed press is higher than the boiler press, i can continue to enjoy my coffee.

Admittedly, my algebra is not the best that it could be, (partially due to my high school math teacher being the March '74 Penthouse Pet :P). However, i'd rather deal with PSI/force than trying to visualize Knewtons/cm^2 and just remember the numbers in the imperial system. You can usually estimate the answer before you do the calculations, but with the metric system you could be off my a magnitude of 10^-2 or something and not know it.

In my business, we just round time to the nearest multiple of 6 minutes, that gives you 10ths of an hour. This is tradition now, since all the info just goes into a spreadsheet and hand calculations are a thing of the past.

My question about metric time is not only how would the time zones work out, but how would daylight savings work? Hmmm.

I would invite all the champions of the metric system to install metric gauges in their MM's. "Hmmm, i've got 2 Kg/Cm^2 of oil pressure. Is that ok?" :rolleyes:

In conclusion, i guess it's all what you grew up with and learned first.

[RCSignals]

You are completely right on one thing! I misspoke, of course you are right saying that all measuring systems are accurate. By accuracy, I meant to imply that a single unit should always be the same. For instance, I've seen things measured in fluid ounces, Troy ounces and Avoirdupois ounces. Measuring weights in the metric systems is either weight, OR volume, and each has a single type of unit. You never have to ask "Which type of unit?"

As for change, check out your own "Metric Act", it's quite interesting. But the metric system was actually the most widely system when it was proposed (in full) to the USA. Also, now 95% of the world's countries (who comprise 70% of the world population) are using the metric system. That sounds like the majority to me. I am confused when you mention "more than one metric system". What do you mean? :eek:

Today it may be the majority of countries using some form of Metric system, however when the push was on to change from the Imperial system to the Metric system that was not the case. There was absolutely no need for the change.

Do a search on Metric systems, you will see that there really isn't one standard, even after all these years of pushing for one.


It's all gone too far with 'metric conversions' now. The idea of 'Metric time' is a prime example.
a few years back it was even decided the writing the date as year/month/day would be 'metric' That's not exactly intuitive, since we learn to read left to right, and everyone knows the year, or should. day/month/year makes much more sense.

[Aren Jay]

obviously you have never time traveled.

[Dr Caleb]

I would invite all the champions of the metric system to install metric gauges in their MM's. "Hmmm, i've got 2 Kg/Cm^2 of oil pressure. Is that ok?" :rolleyes:

In conclusion, i guess it's all what you grew up with and learned first.

But, we do! The stock gauge in the MM is in PSI, but I will install one in Kilo Pascals when I change them. My Crown Vic already displays KPa, Litres/100km (MPG), km/h, Litres of fuel, Kilometres travelled, outside temp in Celsius . . .


You are completely right on one thing! I misspoke, of course you are right saying that all measuring systems are accurate. By accuracy, I meant to imply that a single unit should always be the same. For instance, I've seen things measured in fluid ounces, Troy ounces and Avoirdupois ounces. Measuring weights in the metric systems is either weight, OR volume, and each has a single type of unit. You never have to ask "Which type of unit?"

As for change, check out your own "Metric Act", it's quite interesting. But the metric system was actually the most widely system when it was proposed (in full) to the USA. Also, now 95% of the world's countries (who comprise 70% of the world population) are using the metric system. That sounds like the majority to me. I am confused when you mention "more than one metric system". What do you mean? :eek:

I think what you are looking for there is 'The metric system is <b>standardized</b>'. One kilogram is one kilogram, one litre is one litre. But one gallon is not always one gallon. (UK Imperial vs US Imperial).

And it's not 95% of the worlds countries using the SI metric system - there are only 3 countries that still use US imperial system. Myanmar, Liberia, and the United States. All others are metric. :soapbox: The US used to be a leader in all areas, but not when it comes to this. Staying with an outdated and confusing system of measurements has on more than one occasion caused some red faces. Like when a billion dollar probe cratered into Mars because someone didn't convert Metres per second into Feet per second properly. / :soapbox:

Although, since I was brought up using English Imperial and switched in the 80's, I still find myself using it for some things. I think of my weight in 'pounds', I still use feet/inches in carpentry, I think of my tire pressure in PSI . . . but I also convert them to metric at the same time. I know I stand 5' 10", or 177 cm. I can easily convert that to 1.78m. I can't easily convert 5' 10" to inches. Let's see, 5 X 12, +10. 70 Inches.

I can convert one Kilometre into centimetres easily. One Hundred Centimetres per Metre, one thousand metres per kilometre. 100 X 1000 = one hundred thousand centimetres per kilometre. How many inches in a mile? It's not confusing, it's an easier system to deal with.

[Dr Caleb]

a few years back it was even decided the writing the date as year/month/day would be 'metric' That's not exactly intuitive, since we learn to read left to right, and everyone knows the year, or should. day/month/year makes much more sense.

So, time should be read seconds/minutes/hours? Y/M/D is in descending order, the same way we read time. Left to right.

2007:10:03 11:20:35.36

is more intuitive than:

11:20:35.36 03/10/07.

Is that the seventh day, October 2003, or the third day, October 2007? (*smack* another probe hits Mars, 4 years late . . ;) )

[RCSignals]

So, time should be read seconds/minutes/hours? Y/M/D is in descending order, the same way we read time. Left to right.

2007:10:03 11:20:35.36

is more intuitive than:

11:20:35.36 03/10/07.

Is that the seventh day, October 2003, or the third day, October 2007? (*smack* another probe hits Mars, 4 years late . . ;) )

no time should not be read seconds-minutes-hours, and that has nothing to do with my statement. I spoke of date in day month year, you added time. We know the year, it isn't what is intuitive to read first. day month year is as in 03/10/07 since you know the year is last there is no confusion.

if you prefer 03/10/2007

There is no such thing as a metric date, those with too much time on their hands tried to reinvent the wheel.
What is needed is a standardised date.
That of course should be day-month-year, or time-day-month-year if you like. Reading that left to right is more intuitive than reading the year first.

[Dr Caleb]

Do a search on Metric systems, you will see that there really isn't one standard, even after all these years of pushing for one.


There is only one metric system. There is only one standard. (but, alas, the standard weights and measures keep changing, because they are physical objects. And the methods of making your own standard weights and measures changes too, to prevent such a thing in the future.)

http://edition.cnn.com/2007/TECH/science/09/12/shrinking.kilogram.ap/index.html


no time should not be read seconds-minutes-hours, and that has nothing to do with my statement. I spoke of date in day month year, you added time. We know the year, it isn't what is intuitive to read first. day month year is as in 03/10/07 since you know the year is last there is no confusion.

if you prefer 03/10/2007

But that is my point. We read numbers, left to right, most significant to least significant. Year is more significant than month, day, hours, minutes, seconds. It should read the same, most significant to least. Not; hours, minutes, seconds, day, month, year.



There is no such thing as a metric date, those with too much time on their hands tried to reinvent the wheel.
What is needed is a standardised date.
That of course should be day-month-year, or time-day-month-year if you like. Reading that left to right is more intuitive than reading the year first.

I never said there was a 'metric' date. There is a standardized date format, it's called ISO 8601.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_8601

If you thought the year problem was bad in '99, wait till 9999. ;)

[RCSignals]

But that is my point. We read numbers, left to right, most significant to least significant. Year is more significant than month, day, hours, minutes, seconds. It should read the same, most significant to least. Not; hours, minutes, seconds, day, month, year.



I never said there was a 'metric' date. There is a standardized date format, it's called ISO 8601.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_8601

If you thought the year problem was bad in '99, wait till 9999. ;)

Yes we read left to right more significant to less significant. Significant not necessarily being in 'size' or 'scale' of measurement. This is the error in ISO 8601, unless applied to scientific or historical useage.

The hour is usually more significant for us to know by the moment, followed by minute.
Likewise on a daily basis the day is more significant to know than the year.
The year for most people should be common knowledge.
It has more to do with practical and natural use than 'size' or 'scale' of measurement for common purpose of the date.





I'll let you tell me how it goes in year 9999 ;)

[Aren Jay]

I always write and say. Month day year.

When is Valentines day next year?

February 14th 2008.

You might say it is 14th February 2008, but that sounds odd.

as does

2008 February 14th.

ISO is not a metric setting organization.


ISO is a network of the national standards institutes of 157 countries, on the basis of one member per country, with a Central Secretariat in Geneva, Switzerland, that coordinates the system.

[Bluerauder]

I always write and say. Month day year.

When is Valentines day next year?

February 14th 2008.

You might say it is 14th February 2008, but that sounds odd.

as does

2008 February 14th.

ISO is not a metric setting organization.
The US Military uses the day, Month, year convention in all of their dates such as 14 February 2008. Use of the military 24 hour time system also avoids potential problems with the AM and PM issue. 0600 is 6 AM. 1800 is 6 PM. Less chance for the attack to start 12 hours early ..... or late. ;)

[Aren Jay]

Great until you are supposed to send artillery support in to our Canadian troops in Afganistan and you get the request for artillery at 07 10 2007 at 0658 10 07. When they get there at 07 10 1858 they find that you pounded the area 12 hours ago.

Standards great things, but not metric.

[RCSignals]

Great until you are supposed to send artillery support in to our Canadian troops in Afganistan and you get the request for artillery at 07 10 2007 at 0658 10 07. When they get there at 07 10 1858 they find that you pounded the area 12 hours ago.

Standards great things, but not metric.

The Canadian military is supposed to be using the same standard as the US. The US is using a NATO standard I believe.

[RCSignals]

I always write and say. Month day year.

When is Valentines day next year?

February 14th 2008.

You might say it is 14th February 2008, but that sounds odd.

as does

2008 February 14th.

ISO is not a metric setting organization.

Month-day-year is common in the US. I still prefer and think the 'standard' should be day-month-year.

ISO is not a metric setting organisation, although the time standard cited by the good DR is often referred to as 'metric'

The Metric 'system' is not as standard as people think, other than being based on increments of 10.
That does not mean that everything that is based on increments of 10 is metric.

[Aren Jay]

Metric currently uses decimal and it is bad at doing somethings good at others.

base 16 Hexadecimal could also be used.

divide 16 by 2 you get B
divide 16 by 3 you get 7
divide 16 by 4 you get 5

divide 10 by 2 you get 5
divide 10 by 3 you get 3.333333333333333333333333....
divide 10 by 4 you get 2.5


Even if you used hexadecimal base you could still use metric, that is why it works so well.

16 mm = 1 cm
16 cm = 1dm
16dm = 1m
16m = 1Dm
etc...

It would still be metric it would just be base 16 metric.

Metric is only base 10 because we use a base 10 (decimal) numbering system.

[Taemian]

11645
The Canadian military is supposed to be using the same standard as the US. The US is using a NATO standard I believe.

I have friends in A-stan right now, and they along with the other Europeans (Dutch, British) are using metric for distance/range for spotting/sniping, and of course standard NATO ammo has been listed in metric terms on the crates. (.223= 5.56mm, 9mm= .380) The grenade launchers on battle rifles (including US) are labelled for 40mm ordanance. I'm unsure of what the American bullet crates read, as I have no contacts within their ranks. And .308 ammo is usually labelled as 7.62, but that's a mistake (for practicality's sake). 7.62 is actually 30-06, and I think the conversion was mistakenly done and kept. None of the terms are actually bang-on.

It's also interesting that the major new forms of ammo are in metric (6.8 Grendel, 6.5 SPC, ) and these are the new breeds heading into the theater of operations. All the M16/M4 replacement systems are being designed within the metric system ammo-wise, at least the ones I'm aware of. Some sniper arms ammo are being listed in the US as .338 (Lapua), but they use the metric numbers everywhere else.

I'll be happy when they redefine shotgun ammo and everyday wiring. Bigger diameters should be a higher number, smaller should be a lower number. 20 gauge wire should be thicker than 2 gauge wire!

So long as the ordinance sends more *******s to face ultimate judgement, I don't really care HOW it's measured! But I've also enjoyed this thread examining our differences.

Hats off to the brave men and women from ALL countries doing what needs to be done over there.

[RCSignals]

Yes NATO has used Metric measurements for many many years.

[Aren Jay]

But Metric time, nobody uses it (Startrek?) and everyone should.