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Richy04
10-27-2007, 06:11 AM
Crown Victoria police cars still draw worries about fires

Posted by JKroll (http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/about.html) October 27, 2007 06:34AM

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2007/10/small_27CGCRUISER.jpg (http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2007/10/27CGCRUISER.pdf)Click to download a Plain Dealer graphic about the Crown Vic's troubles. (http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2007/10/27CGCRUISER.pdf) (PDF)


Officer John Wheeler survived a hail of gunfire when a bank robber blasted an AK-47 at his patrol car. He battled back from the wounds and earned an award for his bravery.
But during a routine traffic patrol in San Antonio, Texas, Wheeler was killed when his Crown Victoria was struck from behind and exploded into flames in 2005.
Euclid Patrolman George Brentar, 49, was on radar detail chasing a speeder when his Crown Victoria patrol car hydroplaned, struck a utility pole and burst into flames on Oct. 10, killing the father of two.

Last year, two State Highway Patrol troopers died when their cruiser spun out of control and struck a pickup truck south of Columbus. The troopers were caught in an inferno and died.

Explosive patrol-car crashes are happening across the country.

Safety advocates and police unions say
car-fire deaths in Crown Victorias can and should be prevented. Agencies across the country are installing fire-suppression systems on cruisers to prevent officers from dying in fires after crashes. The fire systems coat fuel tanks with extinguishing powder and stop the tanks from exploding into fireballs. Ford counters that any cruiser involved in a high-speed crash runs the risk of catching fire.

"It doesn't matter what kind of car you are driving," said Ford spokesman Dan Jarvis. "If you are hit from behind at 60 to 90 mph, you are not going to walk away from the crash."
Texas attorney David Perry has represented 20 families in lawsuits involving fatal Crown Victoria fires, getting numerous multimillion-dollar settlements from Ford. Most of his clients are families of police officers.
The Crown Victoria has a gas tank behind the rear axle and in the crush zone, the area of the cruiser most likely to crumble in a crash, Perry said.
"Ford has the only cars made that have the gas tank in such a vulnerable location behind the rear axle," Perry said. "Other manufacturers moved them to a better protected location. In the Crown Vic they are still using '70s technology. The technology to make the cars safer has been available for years."
Cleveland was among dozens of cities that sued Ford in 2002, claiming faulty gas tanks made the cruisers unsafe. The city dropped the suit when Ford agreed to install trunk shields to prevent objects in the trunk from puncturing the gas tank. Police union officials said all the trunk shields have yet to be installed.
A Web site - crownvictoriasafetyalert.com (http://crownvictoriasafetyalert.com/) - is spreading the word of the gas tank problem and says it affects privately owned cars, too. The site estimates that five million privately owned Crown Victorias, Mercury Grand Marquis and Lincoln Town Cars are vulnerable. The Web site wants Ford to spread the word about the availability of a safety shield that helps protect the gas tanks in a crash. The shield costs about $100, plus labor to install it, and it is available at Ford dealers.
Some safety experts say more could and should be done to protect police on the road.
Clarence Ditlow, executive director of the Center for Auto Safety in Washington, said too many people die from the Crown Victoria's design. Nearly 30 years ago, the center persuaded Ford to recall Pintos after 28 deaths.
"A lot of police officers like the Crown Vic because they are so large and roomy and generally withstand most crashes," Ditlow said. "If you survive the trauma of a crash you should not die from the trauma of a fire. Ford ought to recall them and put in a fire suppression system."
Ford announced this week that it will no longer sell the Crown Victoria to the public after next year but will continue to offer the car to police and cab companies. Sales have declined with many police departments switching to faster Chevrolets, the company said.
Jarvis, the Ford spokesman, estimated 85 percent of all police cars in the nation are Crown Victorias, with about 350,000 patrolling the nation's roads. The car exceeds national safety standards, he said.
The gas-tank fires are rare and caused by driving conditions, not faulty design, Jarvis said. Cruisers are more prone to severe crashes because they are often driven at high speeds and parked along highways, where they apt to be struck from behind.
"Any car on the road hit with that impact would have its fuel line breached," Jarvis said. "It is not limited to the Crown Vic."
The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration studied Crown Victoria crashes in 2002 and determined the car met safety standards. Many of the police crashes resulted from high-speed incidents that few cars would withstand, the agency ruled.
But with deaths mounting in recent years, some police groups want to see action.

In 2003, the national Fraternal Order of Police urged Ford to install fire-suppression systems on its Crown Victoria Police Interceptor.
The Ohio State Troopers Association wants the fire system installed in the patrol's 1,100 cruisers statewide next year. The location of the gas tank between the rear axle and the rear bumper is a safety issue, it said.
Euclid Mayor and Safety Director Bill Cervenik said that while reports are not complete in the Euclid crash, it appears the cruiser spun around after it hydroplaned then struck a utility pole and ruptured the gas line.
"I am very concerned and we will be having conversations about patrol-car safety," Cervenik said. "It certainly is an issue I want to look at."
Ford offered the fire systems on new Crown Victorias in 2005 but increased the cost on its 2007 model from $2,500 to $3,495, according to its Web site.
Garfield Heights police Lt. Nick DiMarco, president of the Ohio Fraternal Order of Police, said cities are reluctant to purchase any fire system because of the cost. The Florida, Connecticut and Oklahoma highway patrols have ordered the fire systems on new cruisers since 2006.
The Ohio Department of Public Safety is exploring different options and products, but nothing has been finalized, said Tom Hunter, communication director.
The Ohio troopers' families expressed their concern about the cruisers to Gov. Ted Strickland after he took office this year. The governor is taking the issue seriously, Hunter said.
Some police say they face enough danger on the job. A patrol car ought to be a safe haven for an officer.
Steve Loomis, president of the Cleveland Police Patrolmen's Association, doubts the city could afford to buy the suppression systems. Still, he said, officials ought to find a way.
"NASCAR cars smash into each other at 200 mph and don't blow up," he said.

OneBADLsE
10-27-2007, 06:55 AM
"NASCAR cars smash into each other at 200 mph and don't blow up," he said.<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

What a dumbass comment

finster101
10-27-2007, 08:07 AM
And how long will it be before the Chevy's and Dodges start doing the same thing. I am a mechanic not a LEO but don't you guys think the type of crash and the speeds involved have an awful lot to do with this issue. I do not feel unsafe in my MM.

MarauderSM
10-27-2007, 08:11 AM
This affects the Marauder too right?

larryo340
10-27-2007, 08:45 AM
don't you guys think the type of crash and the speeds involved have an awful lot to do with this issue. I do not feel unsafe in my MM.

The law enforcement CV's are used very different then our cars, we don't park alongside a highspeed highway. I wonder what the fire incident rate is for civilian panthers, but I bet almost zero. These cars are being rear ended at highway speeds and well above in some cases. Also what would be the likelyhood of survival in a smaller or uni-body patrol car. If I had to guess I would say the incidence of injury or death would be higher. In a full frame Panther they may get burned as well as injured, god willing make it out alive.

I had a young neighbor years ago that was new on the Suffolk county police department, and was driving a patrol car and the car was literally ran over by a cement or garbage truck, and the car did not catch fire. I saw pictures of the car (which I'll never forget) and you couldn't tell what kind of car it was except for the blue police stickers. He had to be extracted out of the car and he survived. Granted he was beat up and broken bones but he made a full recovery.

I hope that I'm wrong about the non panther units for all you LEO's out there. Be Safe
I feel very safe driving my GM, and couldn't imagine driving something smaller.

finster101
10-27-2007, 09:57 AM
This affects the Marauder too right?
Yes it is the same platform.

Raudermaster
10-27-2007, 10:33 AM
What a dumbass comment

+1. Should be taken out and beaten with reeds.

merc6
10-27-2007, 10:38 AM
sorry didn't read the entire thing but did they ever go into detail of pointed objects in the trunk penetrating the tank before and after the kevlar plate was added?

K just looked and the barely touched it.

Richy04
10-27-2007, 02:37 PM
I just posted it up there for your education. The fires do happen, one of the worst I've seen with a survivor was the cop in Phoenix. Hit from behind on a city street and it burst into flames nearly killing him in the resulting inferno.

RCSignals
10-27-2007, 03:58 PM
There is nothing new really in that article, I wonder why this is being brought up again after being fairly dormant for some time?

I hear about fires in other vehicles, Hondas at 30mph crashes in an intersection for example, yet no one crusades about it.

cruzer
10-27-2007, 08:52 PM
I thought this fiasco was dead--now it starts all over again. In the initiial investigations, The NTSB, HTSB, and all responsible agencies declared the Panther fuel tanks met all safety standards . They proved that the tests run by the Dallas Texas PD were rigged--with objects welded into the trunk so that they would penetrate the tank. The information that I have is that Ford has not been found guilty in any of the death claims. I have been in three accidents in over 400,000 miles in my Grand Marquis , Crown Vic and Marauder since 1991. One was a left side rear-ender--I have had no fuel leakage or fire. If you get the true statistics, you will find there have been thousands of high - speed rear-end collisions with about 20 total fatalities. This whole thing was a farce from the beginning--some lawyers will do anything for a buck. Between the tires fiasco and this, they have managed to ruin one of the best car companies in the world.
Wake up folks, NO automobile is safe under ALL conditions--I'll go with the strength of the Panther platform any day, over any unibody made. By the way--NASCAR race car have VERY elaborate and EXPENSIVE fire suppression systems--you couldn't afford to buy a car with their systems for a family car.
Rant over--thanks for listening:)

MACFORD88
10-27-2007, 10:13 PM
I Think It Would Happen W/any Car At Hi Speeds.

RCSignals
10-28-2007, 12:35 AM
Visit your local government service and auction yards. Chances are good you'll see one or more Police vehicles that have been in collision, without fire.

I've seen more than a few that had the rear bumper pushed so far as to be in the position of the back seat, without fire.

The Panther Police vehicles have saved more Police Officers than have been killed in it due to accident.

MarauderSM
10-28-2007, 12:56 AM
Visit your local government service and auction yards. Chances are good you'll see one or more Police vehicles that have been in collision, without fire.

I've seen more than a few that had the rear bumper pushed so far as to be in the position of the back seat, without fire.

The Panther Police vehicles have saved more Police Officers than have been killed in it due to accident.

I agree with this and know cops that want to drive nothing but CV's because they feel safe in the car.

jakdad
10-28-2007, 03:21 AM
Real world.......Any vehicle that gets hit at highway speeds is subjet to burst into flames. NASCAR vehicles? OK, if you want to spend 200K on your Marauder. What the Hell does WWF-NASCAR have to do with any of this? :confused::confused:

cyclopsram
10-28-2007, 03:59 AM
Back to Marauders. You can buy the CV crash kit and put it in your Marauder and secondly you can put the Kevlar faced box in your trunk. Both of which are nice to have, and thirdly, don't park in the travelled part of the Interstate.