Header Me In The Right Direction

[DOOM]

HEY GUYS I NEED YOUR ADVICE ON SOMETHING. I WANT TO BUY A SET OF HEADERS FOR MY BEAST AND WANT TO KNOW WHO MAKES THE BEST PAIR? ALSO HOW MUCH OF A HORSE POWER GAIN SHOULD I EXPECT FROM THIS MOD? I ALREADY HAVE A K&N INTAKE KIT DELETED 2nd SET OF CATS 2-1/2 INCH PIPE WITH A X PIPE AND FLOWMASTER SUPER44s. AND IF I ADD HEADERS WILL I NEED TO USE A X CALIBRATOR TO TUNE IT OR JUST BOLT ON AND GO?

[Dennis Reinhart]

Go with Kooks and the twin high flow Xpipe with cats and drop the caps LOL

[FordNut]

Go with the Kooks. Stainlessworks are also nice but since they're long tube it's hard to fit cats to them.

[magindat]

6 of one-half dozen the other.

Kooks are more equal length, but SW are an easier install.

Kooks have an easier fit cat, cut SW doesn't require removal of the starter to install nor removal of the header to work on the starter.

Both make nearly the same power.

They are of similar quality.

I have SW due to price and install considerations. I maybe gave up an HP or two to the unequal length.

[ctrlraven]

Which ever one you get make sure you get thermal coating on them.

[Dennis Reinhart]

6 of one-half dozen the other.

Kooks are more equal length, but SW are an easier install.

.


Absolutley wrong Rich the EGR tube never matched up

[2ndMDRebel]

But the Kooks require shimming of the engine to clear the steering shaft...

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showcase/files/4/0/8/0/Picture096a.JPG

... is what I get when turning left and trying to accelerate, the shaft hits the headers when turned and the engine torques in the mount.

[ctrlraven]

Does SW headers have that problem with the steering shaft?

[ts-pa]

Absolutley wrong Rich the EGR tube never matched up

Didn't Rich have a intake spacer that caused the mis-match?

[magindat]

Absolutley wrong Rich the EGR tube never matched up


Didn't Rich have a intake spacer that caused the mis-match?

Yes, My EGR tube was already 'tweaked' due to the intake spacer. I believe it could have been mated up, but time at the end of the day precluded it. Also, I elected to eliminate it due to heat. We could have made it work, but it was my call to let it go.

Many others purchased SW on a group buy with Greg of FIT. Most had no EGR issues.

[Dennis Reinhart]

But the Kooks require shimming of the engine to clear the steering shaft...

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showcase/files/4/0/8/0/Picture096a.JPG

... is what I get when turning left and trying to accelerate, the shaft hits the headers when turned and the engine torques in the mount.


No one that I know had to do this and Kooks has revised there headers

[fastblackmerc]

You might want to go with Mustang shorty headers.

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u133/fastblackmerc/MM%20Mods/Exhaust/MustangShorties.jpg

[Dennis Reinhart]

You might want to go with Mustang shorty headers.

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u133/fastblackmerc/MM%20Mods/Exhaust/MustangShorties.jpg


These headers do not port match the head, of the Marauder or Mach 1 or a 03 Cobra there off bu over 3/16" if this is what you want you would be better off with the cobra system but kooks will get you more power but they are labor intensive

[Hotrauder]

Go with the SW's w/ 3" collectors. Easier to install, no Cat issues (they fit fine and the EGR is not an issue) the quality is equal the price is much lower, service is better. Pictures on another Marauder site compare the length and capacity of Kooks to SW on Trilogy 1. You will get the message if you look. The Cobra manifold system is a bad joke..that is why the Mustang guys are taking them off. So did I. They are better than stock, but not much. Dennis

[Dennis Reinhart]

Go with the SW's w/ 3" collectors. Easier to install,


There not easier to install than Kooks, we installed a set here and were not talking about cobra cars Dennis were talking about a Marauder, so there is no joke and what I was saying is the shorty headers do not port match the head but Mach 1 manifolds do, and before I spent money on the shorties I would install the ceramic coated Mach 1 maniflods, but Kooks or the other brand headers will gain more power over a wider power band.

As you can see below these shorties do not port match the Marauder head as I stated three years ago

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showcase/files/4/6/DSC00242.JPG

[Zack]

6 of one-half dozen the other.

Kooks are more equal length, but SW are an easier install.

Kooks have an easier fit cat, cut SW doesn't require removal of the starter to install nor removal of the header to work on the starter.

Both make nearly the same power.

They are of similar quality.

I have SW due to price and install considerations. I maybe gave up an HP or two to the unequal length.


I guess its all in the mechanic.
I have 1 3/4" Headers from Kooks and the starter comes right out. :confused:

[Blown3.8]

we had to shim my dad's motor to clear the steering shaft with the SW headers.

[Hotrauder]

we had to shim my dad's motor to clear the steering shaft with the SW headers.


No big deal, a 5 minute job. Dennis

[2ndMDRebel]

No big deal, a 5 minute job. Dennis

Too bad my builder didn't care enough to take 5 minutes to do it then.

[Zack]

Too bad my builder didn't care enough to take 5 minutes to do it then.

Mine hit when I make a left turn, I have 1 3/4" headers though.
Doesnt bother me a bit.

No 2 sets of headers are the same, they are hand built.
Get a ball pene hammer and call it a day.

[fastcar]

we had to shim my dad's motor to clear the steering shaft with the SW headers.

Is that shim UP or DOWN? Also, how thick are the shims?

fastcar:burnout:

[TrainedMonkey]

here's a question..... have any of you ever taken cobra or mach 1 after market headers and installed then on marauder?

[Dennis Reinhart]

here's a question..... have any of you ever taken cobra or mach 1 after market headers and installed then on marauder?


Da they wont fit

[CRUZTAKER]

But the Kooks require shimming of the engine to clear the steering shaft...

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showcase/files/4/0/8/0/Picture096a.JPG

... is what I get when turning left and trying to accelerate, the shaft hits the headers when turned and the engine torques in the mount.

SHIMMING OF THE ENGINE????

:lol:

No one "shimmed" my engine for the install.:stupid:


The steering shaft on SOME installs needs adjusted. Very easy and quick.

[Dennis Reinhart]

SHIMMING OF THE ENGINE????

:lol:

No one "shimmed" my engine for the install.:stupid:



Me neither nor the twenty or so sets I have insatlled

[Peace2Peep]

Seems to me the question is who makes the best pair....so WHO IS IT? We all agree none of them are easy to install...that was NOT the question! Best usually means power and good construction and longevity, etc... lets stay on topic here! From what I SEE(visual only) I noticed that SW offers thermal coating(powder coat) which is nice and is cheaper. SW also offers different sizes of collector(lots more options) but someone tell us about REAL POWER NUMBERS and QUALITY comparisons...show pics of your headers in action. Let's do this! Out!

[fastcar]

Seems to me the question is who makes the best pair....so WHO IS IT? We all agree none of them are easy to install...that was NOT the question! Best usually means power and good construction and longevity, etc... lets stay on topic here! From what I SEE(visual only) I noticed that SW offers thermal coating(powder coat) which is nice and is cheaper. SW also offers different sizes of collector(lots more options) but someone tell us about REAL POWER NUMBERS and QUALITY comparisons...show pics of your headers in action. Let's do this! Out!

Good idea. This is what really counts. It will be hard to get this information. You can't just compare two different cars - they should be installed on the same one and dynoed.

fastcar:burnout:

I wish there was an anti-reversionary cone option on them.

[FordNut]

SHIMMING OF THE ENGINE????

:lol:

No one "shimmed" my engine for the install.:stupid:.

I haven't heard that one on the Kooks either. Loosen the mounts and force the engine over to the passenger side may help some steering shaft clearance issues though.



The steering shaft on SOME installs needs adjusted. Very easy and quick.

One set that I installed had a problem with the shaft, the other didn't. Same car, so it's due to some manufacturing variances from one set to another.

[Zack]

Again, get a hammer and call it a day.

Or just grind down the steering shaft a bit, its plenty meaty to do safely.

[FordNut]

Sort of like a supercharger thread. They are both good, either one has benefits over the other. Personally I would prefer long tubes (SW) over the mid-length (Kooks) but not enough to change. When I had my system setup Kooks was the only option. I prefer 3-bolt flanges (Kooks) over the band clamps (SW) on the collectors so if I had SW I would probably have them modified to add flanges.

The more important factor to me than long tube vs mid-length is equal length. And neither system has equal length primary tubes.

Depending on a person's point of view, the same feature that is seen as a positive feature to one person may be a negative to another.

[FordNut]

Again, get a hammer and call it a day..

And who wants to beat on headers after paying extra to have ceramic coating put on them?


Or just grind down the steering shaft a bit, its plenty meaty to do safely.

That's what I had to do in addition to loosening the motor mounts to shove the engine over and loosening the steering column mounts under the dash to shove the steering column over. Keep in mind the shaft is cadmium plated and the places where grinding is done will rust, so some paint should be applied while the shaft is out of the car.

[Hotrauder]

Loosen the motor mount bolts both sides, jack up the motor a bit slip a quarter inch or so spacer around the drivers side bolt and tighten the bolts. Done in the amount of time it takes to remove the shaft. It is a simple fix. I have no power numbers but the length of the SW's and additional volumn with the 3" collectors is substantial over the Kooks. SW does a great job with Ceramic coating and they will install flanges or your local grand or other muffler shop will do it for you during the install as they did for me when mine came without flanges due to an ordering misunderstanding. One added plus, the dredded and dreadful drone I experienced at nearly all RPMs with the Cobra Manifold system.... totally gone. The shim can be a flat piece with an open side large enough to slip around the bolt or as simple as 2 large washers with one side cut out to slip on without even removing the bolt. It is a non issue. :2thumbs:Dennis

[CRUZTAKER]

Sort of like a supercharger thread. They are both good, either one has benefits over the other. Personally I would prefer long tubes (SW) over the mid-length (Kooks) but not enough to change. When I had my system setup Kooks was the only option. I prefer 3-bolt flanges (Kooks) over the band clamps (SW) on the collectors so if I had SW I would probably have them modified to add flanges.

Wow....ditto on ALL accounts.

Headers will always make more power than manifolds or so-called shorties.

I have always looked at that in this fashion. We already have manifolds, why buy shinier ones and spend all that money on an install? It's kinda like if it rains a lot, you have tennis shoes, wouldn't buying a set of boots over better tennis shoes be the smarter option.:P

[MADDOG]

Aloha all,

Go with KOOK's. No problems with mine. Installed by E.S.H here locally.
KOOKS+BASSNI X PIPE+SUPER 40's+DELETE TIPS=GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRROWL:D

WARNING: May cause you press accelarator more and cause others to drool. HeHe

"To Punish and Enslave"

[sailsmen]

One added plus, the dredded and dreadful drone I experienced at nearly all RPMs with the Cobra Manifold system.... totally gone. :2thumbs:Dennis

Strange, the 1st I heard of this. Every car is different.:confused:

I wonder if a hanger wasn't isolated or somethingelse?

[sailsmen]

Wow....ditto on ALL accounts.


I have always looked at that in this fashion. We already have manifolds, why buy shinier ones and spend all that money on an install? It's kinda like if it rains a lot, you have tennis shoes, wouldn't buying a set of boots over better tennis shoes be the smarter option.:P


If you drive 20+K per year and use your car as an office, want more performance but not a lot more db's and same durability.

Most header I have experience w/ do not last 40K.

[ctrlraven]

If you drive 20+K per year and use your car as an office, want more performance but not a lot more db's and same durability.

Most header I have experience w/ do not last 40K.

Don't last 40k miles? Which exhaust manifold/header would be better for annual high mileage and long term use?

[FordNut]

I've put well over 70k on Kooks and they're like new. SS + ceramic coating.

[CRUZTAKER]

Most header I have experience w/ do not last 40K.

Oh crap! I've got 39,500 on mine....what shall I do?:depress:


I've put well over 70k on Kooks and they're like new. SS + ceramic coating.

Phew...guess I'll go have another beer and chill.:D

[knine]

Get a ball pene hammer and call it a day.
Good advice for a lot of things.;)

[2ndMDRebel]

Me neither nor the twenty or so sets I have insatlled


Well Dennis, YOU DID THE INSTALL! :stupid:

[Hotrauder]

Originally Posted by Hotrauder http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?p=553015#post55 3015)
One added plus, the dredded and dreadful drone I experienced at nearly all RPMs with the Cobra Manifold system.... totally gone. :2thumbs:Dennis



Strange, the 1st I heard of this. Every car is different.:confused:

I wonder if a hanger wasn't isolated or somethingelse?

I don't know about anyone else's DR Cobra install but perhaps the fact that the X pipe was installed hanging so low that it and the pipes were dragging on speed bumps had something to do with it? Cost me $130 at my local muffler shop to correct the $300 install. Dennis

[Glenn]

I hate to jump in this thread because it will just cause :flamer:. But, my exhaust system is FR Cobra shorty ceramic coated headers with Cobra X-pipe & hi-flow CATS coupled to the OEM pipes to the OEM mufflers to the OEM tail pipes to the OEM tips. In my mind, the only performance question to ask is how did it do on the strip (see below). OK, I'll jump out - flame away!

Glenn :burnout:

[fastcar]

I hate to jump in this thread because it will just cause :flamer:. But, my exhaust system is FR Cobra shorty ceramic coated headers with Cobra X-pipe & hi-flow CATS coupled to the OEM pipes to the OEM mufflers to the OEM tail pipes to the OEM tips. In my mind, the only performance question to ask is how did it do on the strip (see below). OK, I'll jump out - flame away!

Glenn :burnout:

Hey Glenn,

No doubt it was worth something, the question though, why sacrifice some HP and a lot of low-midrange torque gains by running a shorty setup?

If you can get shorties a lot cheaper, and you don't care about getting everything available, it's OK. But, I think most people that are going to be spending hundreds on headers (or even thousands, if you get cats, x-pipe, etc.) want to go all the way.

If you have proof that shorties make as much HP and low-midrange torque as the long-tubes than we have something to talk about. Just MHO.

fastcar:burnout:

[Glenn]

Each to his own and that is great. But, performance in my mind is one thing - 1/4 mile strip time. That's how I evaluate performance mods. :burnout:

Glenn

[fastcar]

Each to his own and that is great. But, performance in my mind is one thing - 1/4 mile strip time. That's how I evaluate performance mods. :burnout:

Glenn

Then we agree! That's how I evaluate every mod I make...

So, stop teasing us and tell us what the shorties were worth ;) But, it should have been the only mod you made, and your before and after times must be corrected to make a fair assessment. 'Roughly the same temperature' is NOT going to cut it. Pressure and humidity play equally important roles.

Of course, a before and after dyno comparison would be equally telling. Dyno results must be corrected for atmospheric conditions, too.

fastcar:burnout:

[Big House]

I did and they are wonderful...picked up quite a bit of power to boot...no install issues at all. Only issue was the re-tune.