Taser happy Leo strikes again. [Archive] - MercuryMarauder.net Forums

G-Man

11-22-2007, 08:22 AM

I am curious once you are stopped by an LEO are you then subject to following all their commands?

I thought you were only subject to their commands once arrest was being initiated?

Rules vary from Dept. to Dept. However, once the Officer arrives on scene, it is his job to control the scene. His force will depend on the Dept. policy, his threat assessment, his time frame to contain the threat and how much help he may have available to him. A general rule of thumb, for an offender, is to be as cooperative as possible unless the Officer askes you to do something illegal (which he won't). Always contest your issues in the court and never out on the street. A simple miscommunication needs no fuel to be turned into anything worse. Officer safety is paramount at traffic stops. A professional Officer is trained to protect himself and you. He will not place anyone in harms way without good reason. He will usually deescalate any situation that he is in until that option no longer works. The Officer is trained to go to the ends of the earth to control the scene. His force is dependent upon the offender. With that being said, you may be detained (handcuffed or not) without being arrested. If I have to detain someone, then I always make a point to advise the individual that they are not under arrest, even if I handcuff them. I advise them that it is mearly a safety issue for me and them.

There are a lot of professional, male and female, LEO's that work extermely hard to do their jobs well.

Just my two cents.

SC Cheesehead

11-22-2007, 08:36 AM

You are right guys, there is a generation gap. The speeder was being a total dork, the trooper should have done a better job of handling the situation and answered the questions no matter how stupid. He also should have explained the options better. ie. sign is not an admission, you may sign or not but if you do not I will place you under arrest, read you your rights and we go down town to jail and you may call your lawyer. If you do not follow my instructions I will force you to do so. End of conversation. Don't Tazz me bro is not compliance. The dork got what he demanded, the LEO will get mauled and the resulting publicity will erode even more the respect for ones self and authority. No I am not a LEO, never been one or played one on TV. However I am old and I remember a far better time when EVERYTHING wasn't a shade of gray. :cool: Dennis

^^^^ Exactly what Dennis said! ^^^^

SCCH

SHERIFF

11-22-2007, 09:07 AM

After you arrest a person you CAN NOT let them get back to their vehicle!!!! Period!!!! No exceptions!!!

Let's stop and think about this for a minute. One of the most recent videos being shown at police acadamies shows an old backwoods man walking back to his pickup, pulling out a high power rifle and killing a deputy sheriff in cold blood. It is the worst video of an actual murder taking place you could ever find anywhere.

So, here's the question. How far does a police officer allow a disgruntled person to walk back to their vehicle before taking some pretty serious evasive action? Answer: Not too far if the person is already disobeying commands and is disturbed about being stopped in the first place.

As an officer of the law, you can't take anything for granted out on the street nowadays. Trust me, more and more people have started to hate these rookie rambo cops out on the streets nowadays. Combined with the murder of cops is up 54% this year according to a report on AOL online news recently. 54%!!!!!!

This trooper had no idea why the violator was walking back to his car. And just because the violator might say he's going to retrieve a tootsie roll to chew on doesn't make it so. The cop had two choices: 1) hand to hand combat to keep the violator from getting back to the driver's area of the vehicle where he could possibly retrieve a handgun or rifle, or 2) taser.

Ten years ago the trooper had two choices too. 1) hand to hand combat, or 2) draw his weapon and shoot the violator.

(I am the last person on the face of the earth to defend abuse and misuse of the taser.)

KillJoy

11-22-2007, 09:24 AM

That cop did NOT handle the situation correctly.

If I were the driver, I would be sueing the Dept, and the Officer. I would not stop until he was removed from service, and an appology was made publically by BOTH the Officer, and hid Dept's PR person.

It was totally uncalled for.

Sorry to not see things from so many people's POV.

KillJoy

SHERIFF

11-22-2007, 09:36 AM

sailsmen

11-22-2007, 10:07 AM

To draw his weapon and shoot the violator is murder plain and simple.

I am only trying to learn what is SOP.

Frankly if LEO Depts educated the public on what SOP was things would be a lot better for everyone. How about a brochure what to expect during a traffic stop or a PSA?

I am surprised the LEO did not say signing is not an admission of guilt and your legal recourse is to contest it in court on x date as stated in the ticket.

This is what I am usually told.

On one occasion an LEO refused to tell me why I was being ticketed only to say you know why.

I took pictures, told the judge the sign was not visible and I thought the officer expressed signs of descrimination. The judge threw it out.

Local Boy

11-22-2007, 10:21 AM

I agree with our resident LEO's point of view...and hold all LEO's in the highest regard...

But, let's be honest, there are some bad cops out there...

This was obviously, a case of abuse of one's authority...

This was NOT a "gang banger/hoodlum/drugged out alcoholic...

This was a guy who was with his pregnant wife, and calmly asking valid questions...

It is apparent that the cop just did not like his decisions being questioned, can you say "POWER TRIP".

ALOHA

Shora

11-22-2007, 10:55 AM

Wannabe with a badge. Clear as night and day.

I have family in law enforcement and if it were not for them, or my neighbor of 9 yrs. I too would have no respect for LEOs.

I meet so many "bad asses behind a badge" it makes me sick. I honestly try to avoid any contact with many of them whenever possible.

If this LEO was a real professional, he would already be used to people getting upset when pulled over (do something else if you cannot handle the stress and ***** you have to hear as a traffic cop). Instead of acting like a tough guy with a badge he could have been clearer in explaining the driver his rights and options before demanding that the driver step out of the car because he is going to get arrested.

I think that the LEO took everything one step too far (being too aggressive for the situation) and it left the driver confused and in disbelief. It looked to me like the LEO was taking things so out of proportion that the driver couldn't believe this was real. Hence he kept asking "what is wrong with you?"

He couldn't believe it when the officer was placing him under arrest for not signing the ticket and then BAM a Taser in the shape of a gun pointed at him point blank. Those not familiar with firearms (or tasers in the shape of a gun) can freeze up when one is pointed at them out of nowhere. I feel like he was walking away because he was scared. His body language (one hand in pocket) clearly did not make him seem like a threat.

Am I trying to say that the driver doesn't have to follow the demands of the LEO? No. He should have just signed the ticket.

However, I feel like this ALL could have been avoided if the LEO was more clear to the driver about his rights and possible options. Shouldn't the LEO understand that the driver doesn't know his full rights (since they differ from Dept. to Dept.) and explained it to him better in hopes of avoiding all this? He should have but then he wouldn't be able to make comments to his LEO buddies about the driver taking "a ride with the Taser."

Shora

11-22-2007, 11:07 AM

Here's several links to the 54% increase in police murders I mentioned above. Cops simply aren't taking any chances.

http://www.mywire.com/pubs/USATODAY/2007/10/15/4718017

http://sheriffgregsolano.blogspot.com/2007/10/cop-killings-up-54-from-last-year.html

And do you have the numbers for the ridiculous increase in BULL***** traffic citations (and fine increase) for the sole purpose of increasing revenue? Not to increase the safety of our roads but simply to become highway tax collectors?

Do you also have the figures of police corruption and abuse cases?

I didn't think so!

Killing an LEO (or anyone for that matter) is committed only by the lowest scum and I hope they rot in Hell.

However, I feel that the increase in police murders that you mentioned is at least partly due to the fact that NOBODY RESPECTS THEM ANYMORE as a direct result to their BS tax collecting, corruption and abuse cases!

RR|Suki

11-22-2007, 12:28 PM

Wow, he was not black. Now that's a change. :lol: Ok I am going back to my hole.

:lol::lol: I almost fell out of my chair

SHERIFF

11-22-2007, 12:29 PM

..... However, I feel that the increase in police murders that you mentioned is at least partly due to the fact that NOBODY RESPECTS THEM ANYMORE as a direct result to their BS tax collecting, corruption and abuse cases!

I agree with you 100%. Want to see a clear abuse of police authority? This was clearly a case of "contempt of cop". Check this out.....

http://www.readthehook.com/stories/2007/10/11/news-policebeating-c.rtf.aspx
ps - there's so many citizen comments, it
takes a few seconds to finish loading.

merc

11-22-2007, 12:38 PM

LMMFAO!! I wish every guy I knew was as happy go lucky as you, Merc. This world would be a better place.

After doing some research white people get the taser often on the tube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gE_7NTBfwHE&feature=related

Come to find out they even like this taser stuff
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=520s8B2ydNY&feature=related

This is the best advice
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTd471QNwTc&feature=related

sailsmen

11-22-2007, 01:15 PM

Better yet check out some behavior after Katrina!

Great videos to watch.

Police are not insulated from representing the community. You got scumbags in the community you are going to have scumbags on the police force.

younga1

11-22-2007, 01:17 PM

This is being debated??

"What we have here, is a failure to communicate!" He simply needed an "attention getter" from the officer.

For those of you debating this or not old enough to know where the above came from, GROW UP!!!

Smart ass kids with no respect for anyone but themselves ("Millenians") is the problem!!

Had I behaved like he did and put my wife and kids at risk for being disrespectfull to a LEO, it would be my wife tazering or shooting me I would be worried about far more than the citation or the police.

He embarassed himself but put his family at risk. What probably won't be at risk is him producing any more chilren with her. Good thing!!!!!

Shora

11-22-2007, 07:49 PM

I agree with you 100%. Want to see a clear abuse of police authority? This was clearly a case of "contempt of cop". Check this out.....

http://www.readthehook.com/stories/2007/10/11/news-policebeating-c.rtf.aspx
ps - there's so many citizen comments, it
takes a few seconds to finish loading.

Thank you for sharing that. It really makes me sad to read all those comments because I know that many of the people posting experienced some form of Police abuse.

Also, if the average Joe was caught pushing that woman down to the street in a way like that Officer did someone in the crowd would have knocked his lights out. Behind the badge, he is untouchable and knows it.

I have family members who are LEOs and are damn good people. My neighbor of 9 yrs. has been in law enforcement his whole adult life, is very highly ranked, and a darn cool person. I also belong to the same Fraternity as his son and I hook him up with cigars which we often smoke together. All that, yet I find myself saddened by how little respect I have for LEOs based on personal experience.

sailsmen

11-22-2007, 08:53 PM

Could it be possible that the driver has never recieved a ticket before and assumed by signing the ticket it was an admission of guilt?

Could it be the driver was functionally illeterate and unable to read the ticket or understand the LEO's hand writing?

If so I can understand why he would refuse to sign it. Thinking he was being scammed.

I don't understand w/ the LEO didn't just say signing is not an admission of guilt and you can contest it on your court date on x which is stated on the ticket?

It seems to me telling someone why they are being ticketed and what signing the ticket means is SOP, if not maybe we need a new "Miranda" right?

My own experiences have been positive w/ LEO. I have had incidents that started out wrong but w/ both of us showing respect it worked out.

I have seen some LEO behavior that was wrong, scary wrong.

I think PSA and education of the public as to what SOP is and how the LEO's expect the public to act will help everyone. S/b part of a D/L test in english of course.

DEFYANT

11-22-2007, 09:05 PM

This officer is justified in the use of his taser. The driver was NOT obeying orders.

In MD, you have to sign the citation. Failure to sign the citation results in the issuance of another citation for failing to sign. If you refuse again, you go to jail.

Been there done that, so please dont b!tch about it.

RR|Suki

11-22-2007, 09:24 PM

You don't tell thecop what to do and then cry about getting zapped, the guy started walking back to his truck... WRONG

sailsmen

11-22-2007, 10:32 PM

This officer is justified in the use of his taser. The driver was NOT obeying orders.

You maybe right both per SOP and the law but I am willing to bet that in the eyes of the public if you are not doing anything wrong you should not be tasered.

I am also willing to bet that in the eyes of the public not obeying LEO "orders" when you have not been arrested is not doing anything wrong.

In the end there will be law that dictates the use of tasers.

As part of the drivers test what to expect when getting stopped and what your rights are should be covered.

Just recently the Cheif of Police publicaly stated anyone in New Orleans w/ a pocket knife will be arrested! State Law says a weapon is something ordinarily used as a weapon. There have been no crimes committed w/ pocket knives.

Point being changes in tech, SOP and police chiefs can result in changes that the public is not aware of resulting in reduced safety for all. Getting stopped today is a lot different then getting stopped when I was first licensed. Back then the officer asked and expected you to exit your vehicle and approach his vehicle.

Aren Jay

11-22-2007, 10:45 PM

.........................

SHERIFF

11-23-2007, 04:45 AM

..... Back then the officer asked and expected you to exit your vehicle and approach his vehicle.

You are correct. Isn't it strange? Back then we wanted the driver out of the car in case he had weapons in the car. I'm not sure why it changed or why they are teaching exactly opposite nowadays. But it seemed to change about the time height and weight requirements were dropped as law enforcement requirements. Maybe everybody felt a 110 pound 5'2" female was safer if the driver remained in the vehicle? We used to set the violator in the front seat while we issued the traffic summons. If I was still working in the profession this is the way I would prefer to do it in 2007.

Taemian

11-23-2007, 06:36 AM

I feel like he was walking away because he was scared. His body language (one hand in pocket) clearly did not make him seem like a threat.."

A hand in a pocket is one of the MOST DANGEROUS things to present to a member. If somebody is going to kill you, they will use their hands in the process (knife, gun, strike). This is a basic that every officer understands.

Taemian

11-23-2007, 06:58 AM

My Dad used to be a Police Commissioner where i grew up. RCMP are a bunch of criminals. Then again City cops are no better.

Cops they are all crooked at some time, for whatever reason, some all the time some only some of the time.

How many Leo's on this site can stand up and say they would never lie for a fellow cop? Never treat a fellow Cop different from another member of the public? Never side with a cop in the wrong.

Yeah.
I would take great offense to this post, but your opinion really doesn't mean much to me since I don't know you. But I'm sad that you hate your own father so much. I mean, he must, by your own definition, be the worst kind of officer since he rose so high in the ranks. Imagine all the lying and such neccessary to get to be a Commissioner? I'm sorry you had to grow up with such a toxic role model, again, by your own definition and not mine.

(Standing up) I have never lied about or for another member's benefit. Never had the need to. Treat any member different? Yes, they were held to a HIGHER standard of discipline that the general public if the offence was serious. Otherwise, discretion was used as the situation warranted. Just the same as that was done for many civilians. You don't HAVE to give everyone a ticket, or take everyone to jail.

Your sweeping generalizations show your ignorance and obvious bias. Since we all have a right to our opinions, carry on.

Hope to see you in next year's Canadian MM calendar, hopefully your new camera will capture some good pics of your DTR.

sailsmen

11-23-2007, 07:47 AM

My experience is that in any organization it starts at the top and flows down. Honesty and the top equals honesty at the bottom.

Enron was a perfect example. All we heard about was corruption at the top. I read several interviews w/ several distraught employees who lost everything and admitted they actively participated in the fraud.

They apparently thought it was ok because their boss asked them to do it even though they knew it was wrong.

I worked for a company that asked me to do things that were not right, they would threaten to fire me if I would not and one day they did fire me.

Shora

11-23-2007, 07:50 AM

A hand in a pocket is one of the MOST DANGEROUS things to present to a member. If somebody is going to kill you, they will use their hands in the process (knife, gun, strike). This is a basic that every officer understands.

Good point.

Thus, in that case you ask the gentleman to please remove his hand(s) out of his pocket(s) and keep them where they can be seen. Simple, effective, no harm done.

magindat

11-23-2007, 08:00 AM

This is soooooo simple.

Every time I have been stopped, it goes something like this:

1) May I have your License, reg and proof of ins. (I usually already have it ready)

2) Do you know why I stopped you? (an attempt by LEO to obtain an admission of guilt) Me: "No sir"

3) An explanation of the violation.

4) LEO returns to cruizer to run info/write citation.

5) I get let go with a warning after officer runs a 15 year clean CDL.

6) Got an actual ticket last year, LEO explained signing is NOT an admission of guilt, just an acknowledgment for receiving the paper, the basis of the fine, and my options as listed on the back of the ticket to pay, fight in court or go to traffic school. (I sign)

7) Return of my paperwork.

8) Have a nice day.

This cop totally blew it. Had he simply acted as I've always been treated (save once), he NEVER would have had to be asked to step out of the car. he likely would have signed given the answers to his two questions which I've NEVER had to ask!!!!

I've had 2 unnecessary run ins with LEO's both have ridiculous accompanying stories. They are simply examples of the wrong people in the wrong jobs.

Most LEO's are professional, respectful and know exactly what they're doing. This guy lacked training, or practice, or just a good role model.

Sure, the kid was wrong and by the time it got where it got, taser was justified.

I SAY IT NEVER SHOULD HAVE GOTTEN THAT FAR IF THE LEO HAD PROPER SKILLS!!!!!!

captain

11-23-2007, 08:27 AM

Cops, are like our cars... too much power in the wrong hands always ends up badly. They were both looking for a fight. They both found one. And it aint over yet. Round 2 in the court of public opinion, round 3.. the court room. Lets watch and learn.

Shora

11-23-2007, 08:36 AM

(Standing up) I have never lied about or for another member's benefit. Never had the need to. Treat any member different? Yes, they were held to a HIGHER standard of discipline that the general public if the offence was serious.

I am sorry but I disagree with you here.

Even on this board (forum) we have many LEOs openly admit that "they will never issue a traffic citation to a fellow member of the badge."

Now back to the quote of yours about LEOS being held to a higher standard. If that was true, why is it that many if not most cops out right admit that they will almost NEVER give a citation to a fellow cop? Proves again that they are not there to keep law and order but rather about money and power. After all, if an off duty LEO violated a law that got him pulled over, why shouldn't the LAW be served in the same manner that it would the rest of us? No need to keep ORDER when it's a fellow LEO who broke the law.

This was even discussed here on this site and many of the LEO members here outright admitted that they will never ticket another cop.

I also know a few girls who get out of a ticket 100% of the time a male officer pulls them over. LOSER cops even exchange phone numbers with these girls. One cop was even stocking one of them and showed up at her house.

Higher Standard my A$$.

Shora

11-23-2007, 08:37 AM

Too much discretion is the problem.

They have too much discretion when it comes to dealing with "non life or death" situations and they make the wrong decisions. Thus, many of us don't trust them or at the very least try to avoid them as much as possible.

Examples,

-We must KISS THEIR ASS when pulled over. Why should I call him "Sir" if he doesn't address me in such a respectful manner? Oh, so maybe if I kiss his ass enough he won't ticket me to his full power? F-That! Want respect, give it.

-How about some of my friends (2 HOTTTT girls) who get out of tickets 100% of the time. I kid you not. It's a huge thing around here. The cops are exchanging phone numbers with them and one even showed up at their house out of the blue. Humm, 18 MPH over the limit and no ticket because the cop is a LOSER and thinks he might have a chance to hook up? Yup, things like that really make you feel like they serve the LAW in a fair manner.

Note: How many of us have been pulled over for something stupid (like 1-5 MPH) and still got the ticket? Or getting pulled over because you ran your fog light during the day? What, they have nothing better or more important to do? Yet, if you are a great looking young girl you can get away with 18 MPH over the limit?

-Also, no body wants to talk about it but if cops are there to provide "Law and Order" then why do many (if not most) openly admit that they will almost never ticket another cop? It was even discussed here and many of the LEO members openly admitted that they will never ticket another cop. So this is serving the Law in a fair manner? Cops can speed and break other traffic violations while off duty and get away with it just because they are cops? They break the law and don't get ticketed like the rest of us yet they want us to respect them. Well, let me tell you that the public is not stupid and doesn't respect people who abuse their power (of the badge.)

So cops openly admit that they never ticket another cop and many cops don't ticket good looking girls yet many members here have told stories of getting tickets for (traveling as little as 1 MPH over the limit, "sounding" like they drove too fast because the cop didn't even clock them, and now driving with their fog lights on during the day).

Let's face the facts. Cops do a lot of good in many situations but many, if not most, abuse the power of the badge in ways that cause the public to not like them or even trust them.

Having family and a close family friend in law enforcement made me realize that there are good cops but maybe the institution is set up in a way that they get away with all these small abuses which over time causes the public to lose their trust and respect for the WHOLE institution.

Master

11-23-2007, 11:07 AM

Here is my ramble. For those familiar with my diatribes, please proceed to the next post. For the uninitiated, good luck!
I too have a number of friends in the force and I consider them both exemplary cops, and upstanding people. Additionally, I have had encounters with numerous officers in many countries around the world (including the US), and to date, the only real idiots I've encountered were in Canada, and were generally city police, not RCMP. Well, there was that one dough-head in Chicago, but that ended up being funny in hindsight, so no harm done.
The problem is that it only takes one or two bad experiences to start clouding people's opinoins.
Around here, some of the worst drivers are cops. No wonder no one ever gets pulled over for not signalling, stopping first at a red light, proceeding in the proper order through a 4-way, holding up traffic or driving erratically. Why would they? To the averatge cop, all of these things are just part of normal driving.
Last night on the circ (an 80 zone), a cop exited to Main street (a 50 zone). At the same time, I was merging onto main from another direction, but could not safely complete the merge because the cop was approaching so fast from my left. Almost half a klick beyond the start of the 50 zone, he was still doing almost 90 klicks. No emergency, no lights, but a rousing good conversation going on between him and his sidekick. Funny that in the same stretch of highway where they regularly set up speed traps because people are doing 100 in an 80 zone, this gomer was cuising along at 90 in a 50 zone. Not only irresponsible, but hypocritical, too.
As for arguing, I agree that we should take it to court, which I am doing now. An RCMP started to get riled when I asked him a question (well, pointed out the flaw in his logic, actually), so rather than be killed by him because he felt mentally threatened, I shut up and silently plotted his courtroom demise.
The officer in the tazer case, however, should absolutely have explained about the signing procedure. I've never had to do it, and would have wondered why it was necessary in this case as well. Might not have gotten hostile, but I'd certainly have asked the question.
As for why the driver is no longer asked to come to the cop car, I think is simple. We live in an age of litigation. Tell the guy to get out and he gets hit by oncoming traffic and the cops take the heat. Look at the precautions we take now when pulling someone over (not me, cops, I mean). Keep your car out further in the road than theirs, you do the exiting, you take the responsibility of not getting hit by another car while doing your job. Its all about public safety and litigation.
Here in Halifax, we just lost another soul this morning to Tazers. They klilled a schizofrenic. He tried to flee the office while being booked. Too bad it wasn't in a police station where there were more officers who could have detained him without using a weapon. Oh, wait! They were! Just like the airport in Vancouver! PLenty of officers to either a) defuse the situation or b) failing that, bodily restrain the person. Oh well. They are dead now. No need to worry about it anymore.
My friend was campus security for years as a student and had regularly to subdue drunks, stoners and the lot. He told of some pretty scary situations, yet he took the moral high ground and always restrained, never combated. Didn't matter how beat up he got in the process, he always worked towards restraining the person. I've always been highly impressed with his code of conduct. The military must be, too, since they hired him in a heartbeat to protect our country. There is always a better way.
Look at our own Sam Steele of the NOrthwest Mounted Police. I love the vinget of him staring down the yank who drew on him. He never flinched, but spoke sternly (and apparently effectively) without ever going for his own gun, and unnerved the yank so badly that he turned over his weapon and was promptly escorted back to the border. He even shook his head "no" to the deputy behind the Yank when he saw the deputy go for his gun. Amazing nerves of Steele.
My hero's include:
Sam Steele
Major General Romeo Dallard
and of course, Benton Fraser
To me, this is what authority figures should be. Principled, honourable, tireless and sincere.
Will this cop be added to my list of heros? Not likely.

Dr Caleb

11-23-2007, 01:55 PM

My Dad used to be a Police Commissioner where i grew up. Sure it was a night and day difference when we would get pulled over or stopped for something and he was in the car. By the book yes sir no sir have a good day sir. But by myself they took my lisence told me to follow them to the police station if I wanted it back, no arrest, no warrant, no probable cause, They go off accusing me of some crime, no rights for me, locked me in a room said I couldn't go until they finish asking me questions. Did I do it, no!. didn't matter. Now when my Dad found out about it, and came over and took me home, he was pissed, they got chewed out. Did they take my lisence and say follow us to the cop shop? Of course not that would be wrong. RCMP are a bunch of criminals. Then again City cops are no better.

To put Diabolical's (and my!) view in perspective, we are having quite a lot of problems with the RCMP lately.

From the Comissioner being a dirtbag,

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/rcmp/zaccardelli.html

to RCMP shooting prisoners that are locked in cells ..

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/calgary/story/2006/09/26/mountie-jailsent.html

to tasering and killing immigrants

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=6wYEBd-Mpus

to a young man who was written up for an open beer in public being shot in the back of the head.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2006/02/16/bc_ian-bush20060216.html

and TWO taser deaths this week, including the one Master speaks of.

We are quickly losing faith in our national police force. Those of us that still had some, that is.

Richy04

11-23-2007, 02:20 PM

No comment, since I'll get yelled at by all of the older adults/LEO's on here.

I dont have a taser, and I've made thousands of car stops without one.. After reviewing the video, I can see no reason why the guy had to be tasered. Perhaps attempting to cuff the guy before drawing and using the taser was in order.. This cop was just plain over aggressive in my opinion and failed to follow the force with force rule. This means that the amount of force used to subdue and individual should be on par,necessary and reasonable. Now dont get me wrong, I've had to bash a few perps around to gain compliance, but this is an escalation of force by the officer.

I am as conservative as the come, but there was no indication by the driver that he would have raised his hands to the officer, had the officer tried to cuff him..

His comments to the other officer were a clear indication that he wanted to try out the taser on the guy and that it was not a real reason to justify its actual use.

Also if you've noticed, the use of the taser forced the man to fall into the roadway exposing him to traffic, anyone can differ with me including fellow LEOS but I believe that when you pull over an individual, you are responsible for their safety from the start of the stop until it is over.

UTAH apparently inculcates their officers with different values than where I come from I guess.. I shall drive around that state if I need to ever drive that way.

Taemian

11-23-2007, 10:14 PM

To put Diabolical's (and my!) view in perspective, we are having quite a lot of problems with the RCMP lately.

From the Comissioner being a dirtbag,

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/rcmp/zaccardelli.html

to RCMP shooting prisoners that are locked in cells ..

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/calgary/story/2006/09/26/mountie-jailsent.html

to tasering and killing immigrants

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=6wYEBd-Mpus

to a young man who was written up for an open beer in public being shot in the back of the head.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2006/02/16/bc_ian-bush20060216.html

and TWO taser deaths this week, including the one Master speaks of.

We are quickly losing faith in our national police force. Those of us that still had some, that is.

To be fair, those are valid examples of tradgedies. But per capita, that number of people out of 27 million is a very low ratio. Now consider that 2 Mounties have been killed in just the last month alone. 2 out of 5000 or so is a much much higher ratio. Everybody says the officers should have gone "hands on". When we did that, people sustained "lifelong injuries" depriving them of the "full enjoyment of their lives" as was said in court. The polyester pile was never a favourite event of mine, too many unseen dangers.

Shora, if you admire a police officer for going hands-on all the time, taking as many beatings as neccessary to achieve compliance by the offender, you truely don't understand the dangers or realities of the job...and since you've never been there, that makes logical sense. Nowhere in the job description does it say that you meet force with equal force. Actually, we were taught that you meet force with overwhelming force to end the encounter in the shortest time, with the minimum lasting damage done.

I've punched someone unconcious when they had been resisting violently. A few minutes and a sore jaw later, they awoke with minimal lasting trauma. Now that punching is politically incorrect, and anything you do above the level of violence exhibited by the offender is "police brutality", how is an officer expected to end the conflict desicively? If you meet violence with the same level of violence, you only carry the conflict on to higher force levels where damage is more permanent. If an offender pushes me, do I just push him back and try to putt on cuffs? No, I take him to the ground, or stun him with overwhelming physical force to temporarily take the fight out of him.

Punching, kneeing, kicking, it's all been fair until now. But since the public actually now SEES what violence is about through visuals, they are repulsed. And they should be. Violence isn't pretty, but generally the public leads a charmed and ignorant life regarding the true nature of violence. UFC is not violent. 2 men with a ref and rules has been somehow standardized as violence. It's not. The movies and tv allow the public to view violence in a safe setting and Monday-morning quarter back. Had you been in the vicinity of a truely violent event, you'd be scared as hell and looking for a way out, not judging tactics and approaches. Either that, or praying a big brawny cop would walk around the corner and lay a thumping on your assailant. Perspective is a funny thing, huh?

sailsmen

11-23-2007, 10:24 PM

I agree that violence should be met with overwhelming violence.

In the above traffic video there was absolutely no violence coming from the driver.

This is why I believe in the public eye the officer was wrong to taser him or as the officer admitted to subject the driver to extreme pain.

Richy04

11-24-2007, 01:25 AM

My view is that one of a Leo, I am watching many of these videos and finding that in many cases one of the following occurs.

1. The officer overreacted.
2. Used too much force to affect an arrest.
3. Flew off the handle way to early etc..

I am not saying that he should have mollycoddled the individual but for sure the taser was an unnecessary use of force in this case (up to the point it was used).. Walking toward the truck meant nothing at that moment, physically moving him back to the place he wanted him was the first stepping stone to the use of the taser, not a verbal command unless he was a threat to the officer, a third person or himself.

I dont know what they are teaching these guys today or what their mommas are instilling in their minds but it borders on something bad.

Shora

11-24-2007, 03:30 AM

Shora, if you admire a police officer for going hands-on all the time, taking as many beatings as neccessary to achieve compliance by the offender, you truely don't understand the dangers or realities of the job...and since you've never been there, that makes logical sense. Nowhere in the job description does it say that you meet force with equal force. Actually, we were taught that you meet force with overwhelming force to end the encounter in the shortest time, with the minimum lasting damage done.

With respect, can you please point out to me where I "ever" mentioned police going "hands-on" let alone going "hands-on all the time"? I never took the topic in said direction or even entertained the said topic.

All I speak of is that many LEOs of this day are corrupt, badge power addicts, who have very little respect from me. Like I mentioned, I have family who are LEOs and a neighbor who can be an a role model to many yet my real world experience with LEOs has been entirely different. It has been so negative and so often that I lost all respect for the profession as a whole.

If you care to read my earlier posts (specifically #48 and #49) I list some examples of the typical police abuses that one with a character for honor and justice can never ignore.

Dr Caleb

11-24-2007, 12:02 PM

To be fair, those are valid examples of tradgedies. But per capita, that number of people out of 27 million is a very low ratio.

Per capita? It's got nothing to do with statistics. The taser is supposed to be a non lethal alternative to gunshots - but it isn't being used like it is a possible lethal weapon. The publics' view on that Polish guy's death at CYVR have everything to do with a prevalent attitude in the RCMP. That man was asking where his mother was, but the officers didn't understand him and made no attempt to do so. They even discussed tasing him before they even assessed the situation, and pulled the taser out only 20 seconds on scene. Now, he's dead. Why did 4 strong, fit RCMP officers have to tase him, when physical restraint is almost always non-lethal? Instead, they resorted to the taser, rather than wait for someone who spoke Polish. After they tased him and he wasn't breathing - did anyone attempt CPR? No. They just stood there and watched him die.

Now consider that 2 Mounties have been killed in just the last month alone. 2 out of 5000 or so is a much much higher ratio.

Tragic events, to be sure, but the North is pretty much still a 'wild west'. Has been since the days of "The Mad Trapper". But, it's still no excuse to kill unarmed civilians in Vancouver or Halifax. The non-lethality of the taser is very much in question.

Nowhere in the job description does it say that you meet force with equal force. Actually, we were taught that you meet force with overwhelming force to end the encounter in the shortest time, with the minimum lasting damage done.

Excatally! And no force should be met with a stern talking to, not a taser. 4 Big police officers can take one unruly person into custody, no one needs to die. This guy in the video shouldn't have been tased for talking to the officer, he was no threat. He's also not a dog that needs to be diciplined when he doesn't 'obey'.

SHERIFF

11-24-2007, 01:05 PM

.... but there was no indication by the driver that he would have raised his hands to the officer, had the officer tried to cuff him...

By God, you do present a valid argument. And it sure would have been a nice insurance policy for the trooper in question. At least attempt to cuff the violator, and then back up and zap the guy if and when he resisted. All of this would have been on tape and there would be no discussion or investigation needed.

Hacklemerc

11-24-2007, 02:05 PM

I've been a Police Officer for a while now... I am so tired of people who don't do the job, and have no clue as to what we do every day try to tell us how to do our jobs. We deal with the worst parts of society everyday and have a legal system built to protect the criminals.

The taser is a great tool used to keep from going hands on with people when they want to get physical with an Officer or choose not to follow directions. I have carried a taser everyday for the past year and have never used it once. The one time I could have and should have used it but did not I ended up wrestling with a Shi%tbum and broke my hand and was out of work for 2 months. What happened to him you ask? Misdemeanor resisting arrest charge and was kicked loose that afternoon. Meanwhile I'm ass out. Why was I wrestling with this guy you might ask... he had just beat his wife and thier 2 kids and had threatened to fight me. I was alone at the time but had back up on the way. Why didn't I wait to arrest him until back up got there you ask? He was violent and did not want to comply with directions because we were in his house. Now I guess I could have just went outside and waited until backup arrived and then we could have went back in and all held hands and sang kumbaya or maybe I could have gave him a hug and tried to talk about what was bothering him.

When I think back to this instance I realize, I should have just tased the hell out of the guy and not gone hands on. Lesson learned. Everytime I look at my right hand with the two knuckles that are a quarter inch shorter than they should be that lesson is remembered.

I'm tired of people saying that Officers tasing people is wrong. Yes it is painful, yes it looks unpleasant, but I would rather tase a person and take the fight out of them than have to beat the fight out of them. What would you rather see? A person getting tased for 5 seconds and then being taken into custody, or a Police Officer having to wrestle with a criminal, risking injuring himself and the person. I know which one I'm going to do.

No one likes Police Officers but we are the first ones there when people need help. Do me a favor... then next time you need help or something has been stolen from you, call a criminal and see if they can help you.

I am in no way condoning poor behavior from Police Officers. But I don't come to your job and tell you when the fries are done, or when its time to flip the burgers, you don't come to mine and tell me how to do mine, or pretend to know what we face everyday. I and other Police Officers get up and go to work everyday with the knowledge that today may be the day my ticket gets punched and I may not go home at the end of the day.

If there was no Crime Police Officers would not be needed, maybe we need to look at how our society is de-evolving.

Just my mindless ramble.

SHERIFF

11-24-2007, 02:25 PM

... I don't come to your job and tell you when the fries are done, or when its time to flip the burgers.....

I seriously doubt anybody here works at McDonalds.

And if they do, they sure wouldn't be driving a Marauder as a fryer or burger flipper. :D

Master

11-24-2007, 02:36 PM

I have a problem with the statistics, too, though. Think of it this way: A much higher percentage of boxers suffer from concussions than the average Canadian. Does that mean that the average Canadian is lucky? Not really. It means boxers have persued a career that statistically raises the average for severe head injury. Should we expect the ratio of violent deaths among Canadians to match that of police officers? Not likely. Cops, like boxers, have chosen a profession that puts them statistically at higher risk than the average civilian. Its part of the job, and its what they get paid for. Pay not high enough for that sort of risk? Probably not, but its still a choice.
Next, I would have to point out that no one on this forum has said "Taser Bad". In reviewing carefully, the gist has been "Irresponsible Tasings Bad".
In the case of your domestic, it is very possible that you should have tased him. I wasn't there. Don't know. Maybe a happy sing-songy voice like the psycholists use on nut-jobs would have worked, too. Only you could possibly answer that one.
Anyway. I don't want anyone to think the point is that cops are bad, just that bad cops are bad. Seems a simple concept, and speaks to the point of this thread. There is MY mindless ramble. I get one a day...

Hacklemerc

11-24-2007, 02:51 PM

I seriously doubt anybody here works at McDonalds.

And if they do, they sure wouldn't be driving a Marauder as a fryer or burger flipper. :D

I think you know where I was going with that though, right?

Hacklemerc

11-24-2007, 03:09 PM

In the case of your domestic, it is very possible that you should have tased him. I wasn't there. Don't know. Maybe a happy sing-songy voice like the psycholists use on nut-jobs would have worked, too. Only you could possibly answer that one.
Anyway. I don't want anyone to think the point is that cops are bad, just that bad cops are bad. Seems a simple concept, and speaks to the point of this thread. There is MY mindless ramble. I get one a day...

I actually got a stern talking to from my superiors for not tasing him and going hands on. It was a poor decision on my part and I'll admit that. At the time there were children in the room and I didn't want to run the risk of a errant shot hitting the children. I thought if I used overwhelming physical force and hooked the guy quick it would be over quick. That was not the case. Since this incident I have dealt with this fine specimen of modern society about 5 times. Each time he has been rather less than cooperative and even earned himself a tasing by a different Officer.

I treat people with the same amount of respect I want to get back until they prove themselves unworthy of my respect. This occurs ussually with the first "f--- You!" or any other profanity laced diatribe.

I know there are bad Officers out there. But in my experience there are way more criminals and hooligans than there are good and bad police officers.

SHERIFF

11-24-2007, 03:46 PM

I think you know where I was going with that though, right?

Yes. :)

There is a Marauder owning fast food joint manager where I live.

Shora

11-24-2007, 04:48 PM

No one likes Police Officers but we are the first ones there when people need help. Do me a favor... then next time you need help or something has been stolen from you, call a criminal and see if they can help you.

I am so sick of this loser argument. Maybe if I paid a criminal's salary I would expect him to "come and help when I need it." In the mean time, we do not pay their salaries while we do pay yours SO JUST DO YOUR JOB OR QUIT AND SAVE THE DRAMA SARCASTIC TALK FOR THOSE NOT ON OUR PAYROLLS.

I am in no way condoning poor behavior from Police Officers. But I don't come to your job and tell you when the fries are done, or when its time to flip the burgers, you don't come to mine and tell me how to do mine, or pretend to know what we face everyday.

Typical LEO mentality. There are the honorable, brave, smart heroes who serve behind the badge and burger flippers. Funny thing, IMO since the burger flippers of the world actually pay taxes and thus YOUR SALERY maybe you should have more respect for them. After all, you don't pay their bills!

If there was no Crime Police Officers would not be needed, maybe we need to look at how our society is de-evolving.

Before we looking into the criminals and point our fingers, why don't we start with those who are sworn to "serve and protect" yet abuse the powers given to them. Those who abuse the very public that they have sworn to serve and protect and lets not forget PAYS THEIR WAGES!!!!!!!

Just my mindless ramble.

I am sorry to say, but it clearly seems like your attitude is that of the typical LEO that many have bad experiences with.

If you are an LEO and feel that you are so far smarter and dignified than a burger flipper why is it that you cannot read and comprehend the points that many members of this forum have been making?

Not a one has said that cops should NEVER use force. Many, if not most, as well as many LEOs on this board just stated that the officer used as an example in this thread (post #1) was unjustified in using the Taser at the point in time in which he did.

Keep insulting the public, abuse them, never cite a fellow LEO for traffic infractions all the while increasing the number or citations and fines to the general public, keep drooling over hot girls and never ticket them either, and last but not least KEEP INSULTING THOSE MAKING AN HONEST LIVING FLIPPING BURGERS, CLEANING GARBAGE AND WHATEVER and I am SURE that the general public will keep giving you the respect that you deserve!

Master

11-24-2007, 06:02 PM

Richy04

11-24-2007, 06:17 PM

I would agree with Hacklemerc that his situation warranted a Tased perp. But I know what happened and I am sure he will agree. For many years I carried cuffs,gloves,baton,Firearm and a small knife, no OC spray or expandable baton or Taser.

What happens is that you always go for the weapon you always had, quite a few times I drew my Glock before the pepper spray or expandable as those weapons werent carried until after 9-11 on my job.

Hacklemerc

11-24-2007, 09:20 PM

I am sorry to say, but it clearly seems like your attitude is that of the typical LEO that many have bad experiences with.

First off. You don't know me, Just like I don't know you. So don't assume anything about me. As I have said before, I treat everyone, from the turd who just beat up his wife, to the drug dealer, to the person I stopped on a traffic stop with the same amount of respect I feel I deserve. From start to end of any conversation I am nothing but polite, unless called for otherwise. You have never dealt with me so you would not know if I am the typical LEO or not. You know what happens when you ASSume, Correct?

If you are an LEO and feel that you are so far smarter and dignified than a burger flipper why is it that you cannot read and comprehend the points that many members of this forum have been making?

Never did I say that I was smarter or more dignified than anyone else. A job is a job and I think anyone who has the tenacity and the will to hold down regular employment are better than most of the people I deal with. If you took this statement as an insult I apologize for offending you. I read and comprehend what the other posts are stating, I just thought it was an open forum and we could respond as we felt. Maybe I was wrong. Hmm

Not a one has said that cops should NEVER use force. Many, if not most, as well as many LEOs on this board just stated that the officer used as an example in this thread (post #1) was unjustified in using the Taser at the point in time in which he did.

I think that the officers choice in using the taser in this instance was justified. He (the driver) refused to follow verbal commands, continued to walk away towards his vehicle, hands in pockets. The Officer did not know what he has in his pockets. I've found small caliber handguns in people's pockets after I've stopped them and placed them in custody. The Officer has no clue as to what is in that vehicle. Am I going to let you walk back to your vehicle after I've gotten you out, and you are being verbally combative and evasive. OH HELL NO. Its easy to arm chair quarterback, put yourself in the Officers position. Could that have been handled differently, Yes. Was it, No. From listening to the exchange between the officer and the driver it sounded like to me the Officer did not have the opportunity to explain the citation. Sometimes Officers feel the need to be more aggressive than need be because of the situation they are in. Before I worked in the city I currently work in where backup is seconds away, I worked in a town where the nearest backup was at least 5 to 10 minutes away. 5 to 10 minutes is not long but when you are wrestling with a person or staring down the barrel of a gun, 1 minute is a lifetime.

Keep insulting the public, abuse them, never cite a fellow LEO for traffic infractions all the while increasing the number or citations and fines to the general public, keep drooling over hot girls and never ticket them either, and last but not least KEEP INSULTING THOSE MAKING AN HONEST LIVING FLIPPING BURGERS, CLEANING GARBAGE AND WHATEVER and I am SURE that the general public will keep giving you the respect that you deserve!

Once again we fall back into the ASSume role. You assume I insult the public, abuse the public, and never cite a fellow LEO. I invite you to come up and do a ride along. You may even be able to do this with your local PD. Then you might be able to see both sides of the fence. As I said above... My sincere thanks and gratitude to who ever holds down a regular job and works for a living. I flipped my share of burgers, delivered pizza and washed a whole bunch of dishes before I got to where I am.

If I offended you, once again I apologize. Just because you have had negative experiences with LEO's in the past doesn't mean you should pass judgement on all the rest of them out there. Once again, maybe we should look at our society today and point the finger at our culture that glorifies drug dealers turned musicians, mobsters, and killers.

I realize being a Police officer is a dangerous job. I embrace it. I am a soldier as well, and I embrace the fact that I may have to serve my country in a combat zone (again) and give my life so that others may live. Some people don't and will never understand that mentality, and I know that., but don't pass judgement on an Officers (or persons) actions until you have been in that situation.

As for you paying taxes and my salary. I earned your tax dollar May 15, 2007. I'm earning someone elses tax dollar now. Thanks.
I could keep going but I won't.

Thats my 5 cents.:beer:

Hacklemerc

11-24-2007, 09:22 PM

Hey guys! I'm all for open discussion, but please keep the personal commments at bay. I was enjoying the discourse herein, but it seems to be degrading, and I doubt I'll stick around if it slips any further (the thread, I mean, not the site. No melodrama intended).

My apologies for the post spiraling out of control, and my sincere apologies to whoever I offended, if I did offend you. Lets chill and drink a beer.:beer:

de minimus

11-24-2007, 09:30 PM

[quote=Hacklemerc;554573]If I offended you, once again I apologize. Just because you have had negative experiences with LEO's in the past doesn't mean you should pass judgement on all the rest of them out there. Once again, maybe we should look at our society today and point the finger at our culture that glorifies drug dealers turned musicians, mobsters, and killers.
[quote]

Well said.

I for one, would like to thank all of the police for the good work that the vast majority of them do. I wouldn't want to do the job.

Shora

11-25-2007, 06:39 AM

You assume I insult the public, abuse the public, and never cite a fellow LEO. I invite you to come up and do a ride along.

I did not mean to make it seem as if I was talking about "you" personally. There are a number of LEO members on this forum who proudly admit to never issuing a citation to a fellow LEO for the sole reason of them being a fellow "member of the badge." To the public, this is abuse of the badge.

I have personally witnessed and been insulted by LEOs and believe me, it was without cause. Naturally I used to have a lot of respect for LEOs because I have family in law enforcement and a neighbor (who is a close friend of the family) who is highly ranked. I just smoked a cigar with him on Friday (Montecristo White Label #1 for those other members who appreciate a good smoke).

How many of us have been ticked for bull***** reasons? Examples from this forum include the following:

-Ticket "for sounding like you were driving too fast."
-1 MPH over the posted limit.
-Driving with the Fog lights on during the day. (As if the Marauder fog lights are true fog lights anyway.)

These are just some of the extreme examples found on this forum. There are a lot more examples of "badge heavy ticketing" ithat occur everyday and are not talked about. LEOs ticket for the above yet on principal refuse to ticket off duty LEOs for much worse?

How about some of my friends? Two very good looking girls who NEVER received a citation. One of them was clocked earlier this year of going 18 MPH over the limit and guess what? NO TICKET!

It's a big thing around here but these two girls get out of tickets 100% of the time. Why, because of the loser cops who think they are going to get to hook up. One of the LEOs, who is even married, just invited himself to our table when he saw us at the mall. He even showed up at one of the girl's house. She was scared.

I honestly believe that these type of small abuses of power occur everyday and that many people know of first hand examples but just don't talk about it much, especially over the internet.

As for you paying taxes and my salary. I earned your tax dollar May 15, 2007. I'm earning someone elses tax dollar now.

^^^Now that is some funny stuff!

My apologies for the post spiraling out of control, and my sincere apologies to whoever I offended, if I did offend you. Lets chill and drink a beer.:beer:

I don't think anyone was offended but beer is always good nevertheless.:beer:

SHERIFF

11-25-2007, 08:18 AM

Just because you have had negative experiences with LEO's in the past doesn't mean you should pass judgement on all the rest of them out there.

Reminds me of a joke I saw the other day.

95% of the law enforcement officers out there make the other 5% look bad! :D

Master

11-25-2007, 07:47 PM

Too bad I don't drink. I could handle hangin with you guys...

Vortech347

11-27-2007, 02:08 PM

Welcome to Utah. We're **** crazy stay the hell away from here.

Suspect and officer were both retards. I love my state...

BigMerc

11-27-2007, 08:50 PM

Two things i see about this thread and one more of opinion. Shora is still a cop hating liberal. The infamous Sheriff still lives. and that guy needed to be tazed. Comply or get tazed.

If you do not break the law or disobey lawful orders you will not be hurt.

Shora

11-27-2007, 09:02 PM

Two things i see about this thread and one more of opinion. Shora is still a cop hating liberal.

Still?

You mean I should have changed since reading your opinionated posts? LOL

Edit:

Since you already know me, via posts, I will go ahead and judge you too. You are right, it is fun.

I would bet my Marauder on the fact that you are everything I despise about LEOs.

-One who never tickets other LEOs for traffic infractions. The Law should be the law. Too bad it is not with you behind the badge. After all, "a speeding cop is safer to the roads you swore (and lied) to protect?" The following text was made 5 months ago by our hero Bigmerc(http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=36223&page=2) Post #30.
It's up to me to decide who gets a citation and I don't issue LEO's citations out of deference to the duty we perform. I don't make excuses for it, I just do not do it. Is it favoritism? absolutely!

-One who never tickets hot girls/females because you are a lonely man and wish upon a star that you were cool enough to get some. Hell, like I guessed, you are sooooooooo lonely you get excited about other guys!! A song plays: Lonely, I am so lonely, I have nobody for my own.... (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=36223&page=2 Post #27 folks)
NY guys are the absolute BEST!!! they'll invite you to come see the "house" (station) give you an escort, meet you right after duty time for a drink and introduce you to the guys. Great group.

-One who feels like the Incredible Hulk behind his badge. (Comply or get Tased were your words in this thread) Tasing should not be a black or white issue but then again, YOU SIR, ARE THE LAW! If our taxes forced us to pay the crooked Dr.'s in the same manner they pay crooked cops, the public might get upset there too. The following quote clearly shows how very "Bad To The Bone" you are. The "Built Ford Tough" slogan was really made in your honor. (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=36223&page=3 Post #32)
Like I said Sparky, I don't make excuses I just do it, you do not enter into the equation. I'm sure doctors make allowances for colleagues and so do others. It's mind over matter, I don't mind, you don't matter.

ckadiddle

11-28-2007, 07:52 AM

Speaking of Tazering...I was in line for flu shots with one of my local LEOs this past Monday. She confirmed what I thought, that at least with our local PD it is policy that each of them get Tazered themselves during training to experience it themselves. She said it was "not fun at all" and she was glad they didn't have the same policy for firearms. :)

SHERIFF

11-28-2007, 08:04 AM

The infamous Sheriff still lives....

Absolutely. Sounds as if you know about the attempt on my life? While I am sure it's a waste of time asking what you know about the event, feel free to share if you like.

SHERIFF

11-28-2007, 08:08 AM

Speaking of Tazering...I was in line for flu shots with one of my local LEOs this past Monday. She confirmed what I thought, that at least with our local PD it is policy that each of them get Tazered themselves during training to experience it themselves.

There's a big big big big difference. In training you're zapped for a second or two. When the tool is used
on the street against a defendant there's a tendancy to pull the trigger and just keep on juicing 'em! :D

ckadiddle

11-28-2007, 10:16 AM

There's a big big big big difference. In training you're zapped for a second or two. When the tool is used
on the street against a defendant there's a tendancy to pull the trigger and just keep on juicing 'em! :D
That is why I compulsively jump face down in the dirt with my hands behind me whenever I see flashing blue lights. It's rough at Christmas time in K-Mart.:lol:

Hotrauder

11-28-2007, 01:31 PM

That is why I compulsively jump face down in the dirt with my hands behind me whenever I see flashing blue lights. It's rough at Christmas time in K-Mart.:lol:

Finally something that makes sense in this thread.....some humor.:D way over due and appreciated. Dennis....the second dumbest thing I know is argueing on the internet.:cool:

Bluerauder

11-28-2007, 02:03 PM

:laugh: :laugh:

That is why I compulsively jump face down in the dirt with my hands behind me whenever I see flashing blue lights. It's rough at Christmas time in K-Mart.:lol:
Clean up on Aisle 3. :rofl:

BigMerc

11-28-2007, 02:44 PM

Still?

You mean I should have changed since reading your opinionated posts? LOL

Edit:

Since you already know me, via posts, I will go ahead and judge you too. You are right, it is fun.

I would bet my Marauder on the fact that you are everything I despise about LEOs.

-One who never tickets other LEOs for traffic infractions. The Law should be the law. Too bad it is not with you behind the badge. After all, "a speeding cop is safer to the roads you swore (and lied) to protect?" The following text was made 5 months ago by our hero Bigmerc(http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=36223&page=2) Post #30.
It's up to me to decide who gets a citation and I don't issue LEO's citations out of deference to the duty we perform. I don't make excuses for it, I just do not do it. Is it favoritism? absolutely!

-One who never tickets hot girls/females because you are a lonely man and wish upon a star that you were cool enough to get some. Hell, like I guessed, you are sooooooooo lonely you get excited about other guys!! A song plays: Lonely, I am so lonely, I have nobody for my own.... (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=36223&page=2 Post #27 folks)
NY guys are the absolute BEST!!! they'll invite you to come see the "house" (station) give you an escort, meet you right after duty time for a drink and introduce you to the guys. Great group.

-One who feels like the Incredible Hulk behind his badge. (Comply or get Tased were your words in this thread) Tasing should not be a black or white issue but then again, YOU SIR, ARE THE LAW! If our taxes forced us to pay the crooked Dr.'s in the same manner they pay crooked cops, the public might get upset there too. The following quote clearly shows how very "Bad To The Bone" you are. The "Built Ford Tough" slogan was really made in your honor. (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=36223&page=3 Post #32)
Like I said Sparky, I don't make excuses I just do it, you do not enter into the equation. I'm sure doctors make allowances for colleagues and so do others. It's mind over matter, I don't mind, you don't matter.


:grad:case closed point: Bigmerc

Dr Caleb

11-28-2007, 03:21 PM

She confirmed what I thought, that at least with our local PD it is policy that each of them get Tazered themselves during training to experience it themselves. She said it was "not fun at all" and she was glad they didn't have the same policy for firearms. :)

Do a little search of the LEO's who are permanently injured when taking that 'practice' shot. From broken bones, to heart murmurs. . .

Ok, I cooled down now. It's a subject that evokes passion.

Now, I don't want anyone to get the impression I don't appreciate the LEO's out there who put it all on the line. There are a few rotten apples in every barrell. I am just concerned for the safety of everyone.

Since this is a car board, let's do a car analogy. In the 40's and 50's, the slightest car accident could cause you to be ejected from the car. Doors would fly open, and seat belts weren't mandatory. No such thing as crumple zones, so the slightest front or rear collision was usually fatal. People put up with this as the cost of driving in a car.

Then that evil evil man, Nader, started investigating car crashes, and eventually basic safety equipment became required. Now we have airbags, anti lock brakes . . .and many of us wouldn't have it any other way.

Most on this board cringe when I suggest owning a Smart Car, because they think the size alone is a factor that makes it unsafe. (Despite lots of crash data). If a 'non-lethal' device has been involved in the deaths of 17 Canadians, and 275 Americans - shouldn't we be asking that it's status be changed to 'usually not lethal', and the reason behind why it seems to kill some people be questioned?

Perhaps this will convince LEO's that it really isn't a good way to wake people up in the drunk tank.

SHERIFF

11-28-2007, 03:52 PM

....the second dumbest thing I know is argueing on the internet.:cool:

The third dumbest thing is putting an e in the words "arguing" and "argument".

Sorry, I couldn't resist! :D

SHERIFF

11-28-2007, 03:56 PM

Do a little search of the LEO's who are permanently injured when taking that 'practice' shot. From broken bones, to heart murmurs. . .

Correct. And while a second or two during training may produce a heart murmur, it creates heart attacks in humans
who take a much longer ride from a taser. It's a very dangerous tool and will most likely be banned someday.

jgc61sr2002

11-28-2007, 05:29 PM

BigMerc

11-28-2007, 06:14 PM

Quote from Shora "you are everything I despise about LEOs.".

Freudian slip
n.
A verbal mistake that is thought to reveal an unconscious belief, thought, or emotion.

SHERIFF

11-28-2007, 06:33 PM

This thread is total B.S.

How many members of this site have been tazered? Not too many IMO.

Act normal if stopped by the Police and you will be treated fairly.

Act like an a++hole and get treated accordinly.

Fifteen years ago I would have agreed with you 100%. But unfortunately, sooner or later, you might just meet that one loose cannon rookie that will totally change your mind. Standards have been lowered so much in this country to attract applicants that you don't know who you will see wearing a uniform next. I ran into one of these loose cannon rookies with a badge and gun yesterday that wouldn't shut up long enough to listen to a simple question. I had to turn around and walk away before I told the deputy off. And all I was attempting to ask them was if they had somewhere people could check cell phones in for safe keeping since they were banned in this particular courthouse I was entering. I didn't have a car with me to lock it up in. I obviously couldn't leave it laying on a bench outside. I couldn't throw a brand new cell phone in the trash. Why couldn't they shut up long enough to let me finish my question? I'll tell ya, it's pretty sad out there.

BigMerc

11-28-2007, 06:37 PM

Why did you just tell him you were a cop? Standards might be lowered but there are those that could never make it at all.

(P.S. Bailiffs don't count)

SHERIFF

11-28-2007, 06:49 PM

Why did you just tell him you were a cop? Standards might be lowered but there are those that could never make it at all.

(P.S. Bailiffs don't count)

What in the world are you talking about? I was a sworn deputy sheriff for almost three decades in Virginia, no matter what you hear and believe from other sources. (By the way, I have judgements in libel lawsuits against two of those possible sources right now.) I didn't say above that I am still a deputy sheriff or cop. And the so called "baliff" duties occupied about 10% of my time during my first 22 years. :D

BigMerc

11-28-2007, 07:01 PM

SHERIFF

11-28-2007, 07:16 PM

I was just getting your goat. You were a sworn deputy but you were not a road deputy. I believe thats where the bailiff comment came from. I heard you were never on the road. never ASSIGNED to road patrol duties for any real length of time.

P.S.
I also know you weren't guilty of the impersonation thing they accused you of. You're too wiley to be caught like that.

As I said, I have judgements (plus interest until paid) against 2 of the people who went up and down the Internet posting the stuff you "heard". Just because you hear something doesn't make it true, as those with the pending judgements against them will now tell you. I was a road deputy in a county most people were afraid to travel in after dark not too long ago. The ex cop who most likely told you I wasn't a road deputy was fired for beating a handcuffed prisoner. And guess what, I can say it because it's true, it's not libel.

And the $4 million lawsuits in the impersonation conspiracy are still pending. The trial date is April 16 and April 17 of 2008. :)

BigMerc

11-28-2007, 07:23 PM

who in the world would impersonate the Infamous "Sheriff":D:D

BigMerc

11-28-2007, 07:27 PM

(I know what you meant that's why the two :D:D)

Aren Jay

11-28-2007, 10:57 PM

.........................

Hacklemerc

11-29-2007, 03:25 AM

Nevermind.

BigMerc

11-29-2007, 04:58 AM

The problem isn't the taser, sure it could use more external public testing but the problem lies with the cowardly police who are unwilling to confront anyone who is not unconscious thus they use the taser in every circumstance. They also want to shoot someone without consequence and feel the taser is just the thing for them to use and inflict punishment.

Don't listen to the coward you get a shock, they are never wrong ask any cop. Disagree or ask a question and you get shot, with a dart. Express your outrage get shot a second time and then they kill you.

Police should only carry tasers in place of guns.
Police should only consider using a taser when they would use a gun.
Police do not need guns if they have tasers.
Police could have guns in the trunk of their cars maybe or better call for the swat team.
Any and all taser shots fired should be treated the same as a cop firing a gun. Investigated the same and reported the same.

Cowards should not become cops.

Why do people distrust the current generation of Cops? Look at the TV, a cop beats a guy to a pulp and then gets off free and clear.

happens everyday.

You want to be a respected member of society, stop acting like a ...cop.

Thats just way too stupid to even respond to.

SHERIFF

11-29-2007, 05:05 AM

Cowards should not become cops.

I don't think it has a thing to do with being a coward. I saw this search for new and alternative weapons begin once police departments and sheriff's offices started hiring what I would call "small cops". Height and weight requirements were dropped nationwide. These small cops couldn't go hand on hand with criminals any longer. And yet it was extremely hard explaining why a criminal would be killed simply for resisting arrest. I see police and sheriff vehicles every day now where all you can is the driver's nose and up. They can hardly see over the dashboard. The department I worked at from 1972 to 1996 actually hired a deputy that had to use seat cushions in the driver's seat to see over the dashboard and drive.

Aren Jay

12-01-2007, 12:07 AM

.........................

Marauderjack

12-01-2007, 07:48 AM

In the local "Fish Wrapper" this AM.....Speaks well of the "Zapee"!!!:beer:

BigMerc

12-01-2007, 06:37 PM

Also why do you have one cop in a car?

What happened to partners?

Put cops on foot.

Put cops out with a taser, night stick and a radio. Treat the taser like a gun.

Put the beat cop back on the beat.

Stop using pull overs to hand out tickets. Use cameras instead, they ticket cops too.

If you are a small cop, partner with a large cop.

Put two cops in every car and have 6 cars in every area that has 12 foot cops.

If someone comes after you with a gun, call swat, or an armed response unit and run and hide.

Give the cops hybrids or electric cars. No they do not need to chase after other cars, you have cameras and helicopters for that.

In a small town have the cops in the town not on the highway/freeway handing out tickets. Need money from tickets get a speed camera. Small cops can run the cameras or sit in the booth to watch the display.

It makes sense now, I remembered Canada has a relaxed view of recreational drugs. Fat dumb and stoned is no way to go through life son.

Hacklemerc

12-01-2007, 10:43 PM

Also why do you have one cop in a car?

What happened to partners?
If you can get your local politician and tax payers to foot the bill to hire more officers, yay for two man cars. The reason departments went to one man cars is so we can cover more ground with less officers. Meaning less payroll.

Put cops on foot.
Here in my city we have bicycle police. Also Police on foot are no good in inclemet weather. Can I pay you to stand out in the rain, hail, sleet, or snow for twelve hours? Also if Police Officers were on foot then you would complain because they took too long to respond because they had to walk or run to your location.

Put cops out with a taser, night stick and a radio. Treat the taser like a gun.
The taser is not a weapon, it is a tool used to bring people into compliance through pain. The same as mace and batons(night stick). As long as criminals carry guns, the police will carry them. Maybe you can ask all the criminals to peacefully lay down their guns and pick up sticks or replace them with fuzzy kittens? THen we could have kitten fights in the street. But nobody would ever fight because kittens are so cute right? It might work, hmmm, food for thought. I can see the kitten strapped to my leg now, maybe I could have a couple kittens just as backup. I doubt they will do that though. Everytime I use the taser, be it pull it from its holster to display it (believe it or not, sometimes the threat of being tased brings compliance), or actually using it I have to complete a Use of Force Report and turn in to the Captain, who then turns it in to the Chief, who then passes it on to the Mayor. This is a detailed thorough account of what happened, and why I deemed the taser needed in that situation. Believe it or not there are reprecussions for unneeded tasings.

Put the beat cop back on the beat.
Police Officers work Beats. My city is divided into a number of districts. Even though we rotate through the districts everytime we work and do not work in the same district everynight, we still get to know everyone in the businesses and neighborhoods.

Stop using pull overs to hand out tickets. Use cameras instead, they ticket cops too.
Traffic stops are usefull tools in the fight against crime. If we see a car circling a neighborhood and the car does not belong in that area we can stop it to check it out. Little known fact, this is how we catch burglars and car thieves. Traffic stops also help turn up wanted criminals, Timothy McVeigh was apprehended off of a simple traffic stop. Can a camera do that? I don't think so. Traffic enforcement aids in stopping drug trafficking, and other criminal activities. Also if we had cameras everywhere, then people would ***** about "big brother" always watching them.

If you are a small cop, partner with a large cop.
Less Police spread over a larger area. Hence no partners. Pay more taxes get more Police officers so we can have partners. The emphasis is not on large meat headed officers anymore, Departments want smart college educated Officers. Gone are the days when Police used to just crack heads and leave, we are now socail workers, daycare workers, mental health technicians, and problem solvers.

Put two cops in every car and have 6 cars in every area that has 12 foot cops.
Taxes again. Taxes are needed to pay salaries. People cry about paying too much in taxes, then cry about not enough public services. Those are paid for in taxes. Pay more get more. Again with the college educated officers. Most departments require an associates degree, many are going to start requiring bachelors degrees. Not everyone makes the cut during testing procedures either. When I tested for the department I currently work in, there were 360 people at the begining. By the end of the process there were 52 on the final list (I was #21). Not all make it thru the final list either, they have to pass the polygraph, drug test, and interview process as well.

If someone comes after you with a gun, call swat, or an armed response unit and run and hide.
So you want the Police to run and hide if someone comes after them with a gun? How daft are you man? This would require having a SWAT team or an "armed response unit" on duty as well as unarmed patrol Officers. Yeah I'm sure that will work out great. When it takes the SWAT team 30 minutes to get to the Officer or person who is being shot at because they had to ride in their hybrid, people will complain then too. Alot of times there is no time to wait for another unit to get there. Decisions are made in a split second and any hesitaion could cost not only the Officers lives but civilian lives as well. Maybe we should just do away with patrol units and just have crime scene units. They could just show up after the crime is over and draw the chalk outlines and hope that a camera or helicopter cuaght the criminal act on tape.

Give the cops hybrids or electric cars. No they do not need to chase after other cars, you have cameras and helicopters for that.
I'll ride in a hybrid car as soon as they make one that can carry all the gear we use, and be reliable and tough enough to withstand use day in and day out. Our Crown Vics run almost non stop. THey get parked for maintenence and about 15 minutes at the end of each shift when the new shift comes on. Cameras and helicopters are good. You gonna pay for them? Because to keep helicopters in the air costs a whole boat load of money, and cameras are expensive as well. Then we'll still need the patol Officers to catch the criminals where ever they finally stop. Unfortunately they won't be there yet because they will be driving hybrids or be on foot. Police cars are not just for chasing people, they are for patrol and responding to emergencies.

In a small town have the cops in the town not on the highway/freeway handing out tickets. Need money from tickets get a speed camera. Small cops can run the cameras or sit in the booth to watch the display.
I worked in a small town. And generally I was too busy dealing with the town dirtbags and nutjobs than I was running traffic on the highway. Also how would you feel if you let someone borrow your car, they were speeding and got caught on camera. The plates belong to you and the vehicle is in your name but the officer manning the camera booth doesn't know that. SO who gets the ticket? I'm guessing it would be the registered owner. Then you would complain about the fact that it wasn't you driving and it was your friend, Bob, and he should get the ticket. What a travesty of justice this would be.

Its obvious to me, (no offense) that you have no clue as to what goes on in Police departments or in cities all around the world. All your ideas are great if we had a warm fuzzy world and we all got together and held hands once a week. But unfortunetly the value of human life has fallen slightly with the rise of inflation. I would love to work in a world where I didn't have to carry a gun with the knowledge that I may have to use it to defend myself or others. I don't think that world is anywhere near on the horizon. Nice thought though. That pistol on my hip only weighs a few punds but its a heavy burden. I know thats what I signed up for so don't try throwing that in my face. I do it because I love what I do and I couldn't/wouldn't do anything else, I've tried and was never happy. Its sounds cliche but I like helping people and putting dirtbags behind bars.

As for the "coward" remark stated in an earlier post. Mom taught me if you can't say anything nice don't say it at all. So I'll leave that one be. But I think you know where to stow that one, and it :censor: sure ain't your trunk. Take it for what its worth.

Aren Jay

12-02-2007, 12:43 AM

.........................

SHERIFF

12-02-2007, 12:18 PM

The taser is not a weapon.

Excuse me, if it can hurt or KILL a person, it's a weapon.

And don't give me that "cocaine induced death" BS either. :D

MarauderMark

12-02-2007, 02:36 PM

I wonder what wouldv'e happened if he didn't have the tazer.Just for not signing the ticket?.that can happen anywhere it gives the police the right to arrest if you don't sign it.
Well times have changed if you don't want to sign it then maybe say ok and simply mail it to them anyways insted of and arrest as long as there not wanted.
there are alot of people that
Power of authority can goes to somes head. Thats mental case .

Hacklemerc

12-02-2007, 10:16 PM

Excuse me, if it can hurt or KILL a person, it's a weapon.

And don't give me that "cocaine induced death" BS either. :D

I CAN KILL SOMEONE WITH A SPOON. SHALL WE BAN THOSE AS WELL? I'm not trying to be sarcastic but everything is potentially a weapon. THere are strong arguements for the use of and the discontinuing use of the taser. I like it. I have never used mine but I have displayed it many times to diffuse a hot situation. I'm not afraid to go hands on with someone either, but you have something that can bring compliance without having to wrestle with someone or pull my pistol is a good thing. I have been shot with the taser when I went thru the academy and have to do it once a year to get recertified in using it. It does infact hurt like the dickens, and took me out for a couple minutes.

I also agree that there are Officers who are quick to pull their taser and zap someone. I'll carry mine untill they take it away.

And in the words of Forrest Gump... and thats all I have to say about that.

Hacklemerc

12-02-2007, 10:26 PM

by the way... unfortunatly I have arrested a few Police Officers and been present when a few others where arrested. I have also been present when Officers have been let go.

Dr Caleb

12-03-2007, 11:44 AM

It makes sense now, I remembered Canada has a relaxed view of recreational drugs. Fat dumb and stoned is no way to go through life son.

Since when have we had a relaxed view of recreational drugs?

Uninformed and ignorant is no way to go through life ether.

Vortech347

12-03-2007, 04:32 PM

Drama Drama Drama...

SHERIFF

12-03-2007, 06:31 PM

The taser is not a weapon.

I CAN KILL SOMEONE WITH A SPOON. SHALL WE BAN THOSE AS WELL? I'm not trying to be sarcastic but everything is potentially a weapon.

That's right. Even a paper clip is a dangerous weapon when shot into somebody's eye with a rubber band.

So you can't ever say the taser isn't a weapon like you did above.

That's my point. :D

Aren Jay

12-03-2007, 07:04 PM

.........................

de minimus

12-03-2007, 09:34 PM

Since when have we had a relaxed view of recreational drugs?

Uninformed and ignorant is no way to go through life ether.

Never been to Vancouver eh? I'd say the drug scene is pretty relaxed.....and by the way, the quote in question, I believe comes from Animal House, when Dean Wormer was putting some of the lads on "double secret" probation.....Great film.

Hacklemerc

12-04-2007, 01:06 AM

its called Officers Discretion. If I ticketed everyone I saw breaking the law, I wouldn't have enough tickets and pens to write with. Enough said.:argue: It seems like this is all we are doing. So Whatever.

I'm so done here.

captain

12-04-2007, 07:58 AM

you see now? cant argue with the law. They are relentless.
Be glad there is infinite cyber/space between you. Just say thankyou and avoid them at all cost. Resistance is futile.

Dr Caleb

12-04-2007, 11:30 AM

Never been to Vancouver eh? I'd say the drug scene is pretty relaxed.....and by the way, the quote in question, I believe comes from Animal House, when Dean Wormer was putting some of the lads on "double secret" probation.....Great film.

Ahh, I see. My bad. Yes, good flick.

But, it is still a crime to possess certain drugs, even small amounts. Because that isn't enforced due to lack of LEO's just means the few that enforce laws have to pick and choose, and pot possession in Van isn't a high priority. Much like comments above about why LEOs have to ride single. But around here - it is still a big deal.

Canadians were even discussing de-criminalization of small amounts of pot, a couple years back like they have in places like New York and California, but nothing became of it. 'Can't enforce' is a far cry from 'won't enforce' the law.

People get busted regularally with small amounts, and face jail time. There was a report on the news about all the people getting busted lately (and the large grow ops too) that they were under the mistaken impression that pot possession was 'legal' now. Surprises them that it isn't, nothing has changed. Guess they shoulda payed more attention to the news. ;)

SHERIFF

12-04-2007, 03:46 PM

you see now? cant argue with the law. They are relentless.

In the reply right above yours... I think the law said he was so done here.

As in leaving this subject is what I understand him to be saying. :D

...cant argue with the law.

I can. It's a God given right on the Internet.

And I say any officer of the law who says a taser isn't a weapon needs to go back through taser training. :P

Aren Jay

04-03-2008, 12:25 AM

.........................

Dr Caleb

04-03-2008, 08:53 AM

attitude adjustment.

shock therapy in the street?

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/cbc/080402/canada/vancouver_bc_boy_taser

or: http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/080310/national/taser_suit_4

But, not to fret D1CC. The RCMP will simply stop telling us whenever they use a taser, so it doesn't reflect badly on their reputation.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080324.wtaser25/CommentStory/National/

Aren Jay

04-04-2008, 09:12 PM

.........................

Hacklemerc

04-05-2008, 02:40 AM

I thought this was closed and locked... Hmmm oh well..

Aren Jay

04-05-2008, 07:34 PM

.........................

SHERIFF

04-06-2008, 02:25 PM

Having been issued a taser, and only having to display it once to gain compliance, this video bothers me. And I can tell you why:

The officer performing the traffic stop lies to the backup officer. He tells the backup officer he told the suspect, "turn around or I am going to tase you!"
He did not tell the suspect any such thing at any time. Would this have been his testimony in court under oath?

Some of you may say this is no big deal. But officers testifying in court to things that simply did not take place is a major problem in this country.

hdirish50

04-06-2008, 03:38 PM

http://www.ssinserts.com/index.php?main_page=product_in fo&cPath=90&products_id=1228

Hacklemerc

04-07-2008, 02:20 AM

I still wish we could carry kittens instead of weapons. Ever seen a kittens claws??? Damn they are sharp.

You are right... take the tasers away and chances are the deaths resulting from taser use or use of force will drop. Officer injuries will rise again. SInce deploying the taser our line of duty injuries have dropped 75%. I don't know about you but... I kind of dislike getting hurt. Its just a personal thing. Call me a sissy, whatever. But if I need it I'm gonna use it. I recently tased a naked woman covered in her own blood who disagreed with hospital staff who thought that the wounds on her wrists (that were self inflicted in a fit of drug induced anger) were non life threatening and she was okay to leave. Oh yeah did I mention she was nuttier than a 10 lb bag of walnuts and strung out on heroin. I waited until she kicked a security guard in the face and another in the groin before tasing her. Did the thought to attempt to wrestle her to the ground cross my mind?? Nope... blood... disease, cooties... I got a family to go home to. So I tased her. Oddly enough, she was semi well behaved after that. Food for thought....

By the way... I checked with our Taser instructor... yeah he called it a "tool" as well. Maybe he's wrong too....

Aren Jay

04-07-2008, 10:22 PM

.........................

Aren Jay

11-03-2008, 08:11 PM

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/cbc/081103/canada/calgary_taser_calgary_police_1

Strikes again. ZAP!

Hacklemerc

11-03-2008, 08:44 PM

Again with this? Someone holds a grudge... I guess I can start a thread about all the peices of garbage that police tase that don't die. Oh wait we never hear about that because no one cares. It only makes headlines when criminals die while resisting. I read some of the comments attached to that article and some one asked how a person can resist while being handcuffed? I don't imagine that person has ever dealt with someone angry enough to resist while being handcuffed from the safety of their desk inan office building somewhere.

Shora

11-03-2008, 09:55 PM

Again with this? Someone holds a grudge... I guess I can start a thread about all the peices of garbage that police tase that don't die. Oh wait we never hear about that because no one cares. It only makes headlines when criminals die while resisting....

Is this post for real?

We have criminals.

That's why many have jobs in the LE profession.

Don't like the job? Please, find something else.

We all agree that one should not resist. However, we (the public) does not agree that you should have a "right" to use force that may be deadly even in such events.

Also, I love when LEOs keep bringing up how good it is to "work behind an office desk?" Please, can someone answer me WHO IS STOPPING THEM FROM FINDING ONE OF THOSE GREAT JOBS?

Aren Jay

11-03-2008, 10:24 PM

.........................

Hacklemerc

11-04-2008, 07:33 AM

Is this post for real?

We have criminals.

That's why many have jobs in the LE profession.

Don't like the job? Please, find something else.

We all agree that one should not resist. However, we (the public) does not agree that you should have a "right" to use force that may be deadly even in such events.

Also, I love when LEOs keep bringing up how good it is to "work behind an office desk?" Please, can someone answer me WHO IS STOPPING THEM FROM FINDING ONE OF THOSE GREAT JOBS?

Yes the post is for real. You read it right?

Any force could be deadly in the right conditions. Maybe we should just be banned from using force all together and if the bad guy doens't want to go to jail we just pack up and roll out leaving the bad guy there.

I love the job. I just like messing with you. I worked a desk job and hated it. Done.

Hacklemerc

11-04-2008, 07:38 AM

I find it odd, a Cop is killed in the line of duty and stop everything get the guy don't do anything else, etc....

Tragedy, unthinkable, Kill him or her, fry em linch em, beat em up...

But an innocent guy who is stopped on a fake traffic stop or seen running near a suspected crime or just in the wrong place at the wrong time, gets killed by a Cop and it is justified because they don't know or want to get a scrap or bruise doing a job they full well know that they are going to get hurt somehow while doing. Instead lets just Zap everyone. Then figure out what is going on. Why not just shoot everyone in the leg with your gun? About the same number will die from a leg wound and what you will be able to justify it as a way to keep from getting a bruise on your arm...

Note I'm sitting at my desk in my Bedroom not an office typing this.

You are right I am wrong. I concede to your superior intellect. :bows:

That chair for the desk in your bedroom is comfy isn't it? ;)

Aren Jay

11-04-2008, 10:49 PM

.........................

seans

11-06-2008, 07:45 AM

I find it odd, a Cop is killed in the line of duty and stop everything get the guy don't do anything else, etc....

Tragedy, unthinkable, Kill him or her, fry em linch em, beat em up...

Note I'm sitting at my desk in my Bedroom not an office typing this.

You cross the line when you mock the sacrifices made by officers that have died in the line of duty you little turd. You sit in your bedroom at your little "microsphere" and play on the computer while pretending to be a real man but do not ever again make lite of an officer dying in the line of duty.

I had a friend die in the line of duty after being shot in the chest by a hunting rifle and you, a person who probably has never done anything to help anyone other than your childish self have the nerve to make comments about something like that.

Here's some food for thought, Microsphere boy. If a person is willing to kill a cop then he probably wouldn't think twice about breaking into mommy and daddys house, going into a bedroom with light green carpets and doing the same to the geek sitting at his microsphere. I usually ignore your juvenile and often idiotic comments but this time you went too far.

Eric-Blk2004

11-06-2008, 09:57 AM

I think you are missing the point - both parties. The taser is a tool just like anything else. The problem is that it can be lethal, just like any tool. I think the issue is education. LEO's are taught that they are an acecptable form if a subject is resisting arrest, so is a baton, fists, a car, etc. You use the right tool for the right job.

The problem is that with the taser it is sometimes abused and used incorrectly. Lets not fault all LEOs for the actions of a few. However, the effects of getting zapped vary from person to person, health issues, sudden death, etc, etc. The cop is not responsible for the medical records of a person committing a crime or resisting. They are responible for BOTH parties saftey. Its not rocket science and the taser can be used effectively. I think the issue is training officers to understand that people can die from a taze and that they use the tool as almost as sparingly as they use their gun. As the level headed LEO pointed out, simply pointing a taser was enough to gain complaince. Naturally different situations call for different measures and there is no cookie cutter to this.

And to the point of a LEO dying in the line of duty. I believe his point was to the effect that when a LEO dies everyone stands behind him. Which is find, honor your brothers and sisters. I think we can all agree on that. However, when a innocent (remember innocent until proven guilty by court of law) suspect dies from tazing, no one bats an eye. The truth of the situation is the officer felt this person was dangerous, but not dangerous enough to use his firearm, and resorted to a non leathal tool that may or may not have been used in correctly and the end result is the death of a suspect. No one hear seems to realize that suspect was a brother or a sister. We are all people. I know cops have a strong us vs them, with us or against mentality. I dont blame that, the streets are rough and they do a dangerous job. But as human beings, we are all that when we go to bed at night, we need to realize the results of our actions and choices.

All I would ask is that proper education and training go into account for tazing a suspect. The tazer is a tool, but I feel that some officers a small amount, view it as a shiney new toy that they have to use because its suppose to be perfectly safe. I know this is not every cop because there would be a lot more articles about it. I am not saying lets all label LEO's tazer happy. I am saying that there needs to be more control with the tazer. Everytime an officer discharges his firearm it must be accounted for. I am sure the same is true with the tazer.

And lets no assume things about one and other. Because someone works at a desk job, sits in a bedroom, or drives a black and white does not make him any more or less of a man. We all have our own lives and we all made our choices.

This board is seriously judgemental and bias at times.