Slow Lightning

[Aren Jay]

A question for those who know Lightnings.

Why are they so slow?

The 5.4L is supposedly a great engine, better than the 4.6L but in everything i have seen it, it is always so slow.

Why does the Lightning make so little BHP?

When a Marauder is Super Charged it makes easily 30% more BHP, maybe 50%.

many people say the Marauder should have had the 5.4L engine, yet I just have to wonder if that would have made it a slug.

So, why is a Lightning so slow?

[Bigdogjim]

Look at the weight? It is a pick-up truck.(DOH!) Factory stock S/C are always on the low side.

[KillJoy]

L's are no slouch by ANY means.

I beat the living hell out of one on a test drive, and I was MORE than impressed! I will NOT under-estimate them!

KillJoy

[Aren Jay]

475 LBs more weight and after checking with Chadder, it seems 25% less BHP, is this just because it is a Ford SC?

Can the SC be updated electronically or is it physically a smaller unit?

Do Lightnings have High Stall Torque Converters?

I'm just wondering if you can make a Lightning as fast as a SC Marauder without spending as much as Super Charging a Marauder?

A Lightning is fairly fast, but it is not that fast.

I'm thinking maybe I should just SC my Marauder and look at getting a Sport Trac instead.

Cheaper Faster Better?

[Raudermaster]

Dude are you serious? How can you even say that? I've seen stock L's with nothing more than DR's run mid 13's. If you think it's slow, then you shouldn't have one. As for making them "faster," electronically get a tune obviously. They work just like any other supercharged vehicle, smaller pulley = more power. Ford really de-tuned the L's from the factory, as they did with the MM's, and Cobra's. Ask Lidio, the most basic upgrades for the L's/Cobra's would be a tune, pulley, CAI/exhaust and you'll easily score an extra 40-60hp if not more no problem. Same goes for the torque.

[hyvltge]

Define slow....?
Mine ran a 13.8 bone stock and 12.42 as she sits now. Basically an L with a chip, filter and pulley and you are in the 400, 500 club pulling just into the high 12's. So for any car, let alone a pick up truck, that is respectable and quick.

[thePunisher]

just look at the torque.......both engines being s/c. thats what moves the vehicle....plus the 4v heads really love boost.....respond much better to it compared to the 2v heads......

the 4r100 in the lightning also eats up a ton of power compoared to the 4r70w

[Raudermaster]

just look at the torque.......both engines being s/c. thats what moves the vehicle....plus the 4v heads really love boost.....respond much better to it compared to the 2v heads......

the 4r100 in the lightning also eats up a ton of power compoared to the 4r70w

As much as I love my MM, I'd put money on a modded L vs. an S/C'd MM anyday, regardless if it's still 2v.

[thePunisher]

As much as I love my MM, I'd put money on a modded L vs. an S/C'd MM anyday, regardless if it's still 2v.

i absolutely agree!

[hyvltge]

As much as I love my MM, I'd put money on a modded L vs. an S/C'd MM anyday, regardless if it's still 2v.

I guess it's really all relative, but I can tell you that the L (traction granted) comes out of the hole like no ones business, but I am guessing that the MM blown may be a little less out of the hole, but would pull like an LS motor from 3000 on. Hopefully I will be able to tell you first hand here pretty soon.:D

[Zack]

Visit ModularPowerhouse.com, home of the 919rwhp 2v

[Breadfan]

I wouldn't put much faith in the factory HP ratings. Most likely low. The '03 Cobra rated at 390hp but they probably make that at the wheels from the factory.

Lightning uses the same M112 eaton core as the 03 cobra and the Trilogy kit for MM.

[hyvltge]

Visit ModularPowerhouse.com, home of the 919rwhp 2v

Here is a Gen 2 with a little upgraded boost:
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/6b3d04e7-7c21-4c7a-abb9-994b007389b3.htm

[Aren Jay]

I have a feeling that is not street legal.

I was just saying stock, the Lightning doesn't sound much more powerful than a Hyundai.

But if it has the same components as a Trilogy, then I guess it could be retuned.

So when did they fix the engine problems on the 5.4L?

[offroadkarter]

Lightnings are not hyundai's! your comparing a pick up truck to a tin can. It runs low 14's high 13's stock, thats a solid second and more than a marauder, 2+ than a stock F150. Plus it did come with the 2v motor, which at the time wasnt really a powerhouse w/o the supercharger. It put out 380rwhp.

Drive one before you call it slow.

[Raudermaster]

I have a feeling that is not street legal.

I was just saying stock, the Lightning doesn't sound much more powerful than a Hyundai.

But if it has the same components as a Trilogy, then I guess it could be retuned.

So when did they fix the engine problems on the 5.4L?

What are you talking about? You're really mis-informed. Enlighten me on the "5.4l problems?"

[chader]

you need to read what the L's are running...I think they are very impressive and if they were more then a 2 seater I would be all over one

[QWK SVT]

Uhmm... Slow? Never been a complaint of mine! Get into one, and drive it...:burn:

Stock, I put down 360HP/430TQ, so the Ford rating of 380HP/450TQ is probably underestimated.

Other than my first 1/4 mile run (didn't know how to launch, and had never even been to the track prior), I have been 13's or quicker. Even with my big ass in the drivers seat, the truck moved down the aisle to see 13.5's stock... Well, OK... I had a muffler (that lost me power) and a set of slapper bars on, but the engine, tune, etc. were untouched... For comparisons sake, I was able to squeeze out 14.8s, from the bone stock Marauder.

When comparing to a S/C Marauder... What does a S/C Marauder run, with no other changes (just the S/C and supporting tune)? Maybe 13.00 (+/-)? Add a 4lb pulley, plugs and GOOD dyno tune, and you're there (better, depending on driver and conditions). Ford left a lot of power on the table for the L, so even a tune alone will get you into the low-13's.

There are no real big "engine problems" with the 5.4L... It's pretty much the same as all the other F150 5.4L engines (with lower compression). The 99-00 had an intercooler recall, and the newer ones (I think 03+) have more thread for the sparkplugs. Mine does not have this, so I just double check that the plugs are correctly torqued down, every oil change. No problems, yet... The rods could be stronger, but even then, their good up until you hit the 500HP level... My completely stock engine, making 440 to the wheels loves the throttle. Still knocks down better than 17mpg highway, and passes Ontario's emissions tests (sniffer and dyno testing) with flying colours.

Having said that, you may have heard of other, catastrophic failures. Those are generally related to driver errors, or tuning errors. If you mash the go pedal in winter in a supercharged vehicle (whether in an L or a S/C Marauder), you're playing with a timebomb, that will likely result in a newly installed window in the engine block. This is even more true in a heavy vehicle, where more stress is placed on the engine. If you make ANY changes, getting properly tuned is a must. Ensuring the tuner knows your locale and weather conditions goes without saying. If they can't compensate for the difference from your location vs. theirs, they are NOT worth talkign to, let alone paying them for anything.

Long story short, the Lightning is quick. Stock it's reasonable quick, but it's really easy to make it quicker. For a few hundred dollars, you can run deep into the 13's. For less than $2000, you can run well into the 12's. The best part is the foolish amount of lowend torque, making it "feel" even quicker than that on the street. In that domain (in the 0-45mph range), very few cars will come close to an L that can hook up. No FWD has a chance. Corvettes are easily humbled (new Z06's excluded). The only downside to a 5000lb truck: aero will not be friendly to rolling starts.

[Aren Jay]

You have emission testing in Ontario?

So making a Lightning as fast as a SC Marauder is much less money than making a Marauder fast.

How do Lightnings do on a road course. If I do any kind of racing it would be a road course style not drag racing. No I do not plan on being a profession racer. I wouldn't mind trying it out but it is not a career move.

Is the lightning and easy to get into truck? It doesn't look much bigger than a Marauder?

hmm There is a local place that has a Lightning, I guess I should go have a look.

[Raudermaster]

Like QWK said, it's a truck, they're aero-dynamically challenged. I believe a few guys have auto-x'd their L's, they'll do really good when lowered and have better sway's on them I'm sure. And yes, of course it would easier/cheaper to make an L fast compared to an MM. It's already got the forced goodies on it stock.

[hyvltge]

Umm yes, spend some seat time in an L before making a bunch of assumptions because you know what happens when you assume.

As for the road course, myself and a fellow L owner did an on track event one time and had a blast! The only thing that passed us were the 03 - 04 Cobras. As far as performance trucks go they are second to none.

[freakstatus]

You have emission testing in Ontario?

So making a Lightning as fast as a SC Marauder is much less money than making a Marauder fast.

How do Lightnings do on a road course. If I do any kind of racing it would be a road course style not drag racing. No I do not plan on being a profession racer. I wouldn't mind trying it out but it is not a career move.

Is the lightning and easy to get into truck? It doesn't look much bigger than a Marauder?

hmm There is a local place that has a Lightning, I guess I should go have a look.

If you buy, get one stateside...you'll save about 5-10 grand.

[Aren Jay]

I have been looking across the states.

What is a good price and how do they handle mileage?

I have found a Washington state one 2000 with 114K miles on it for $14K and a 2004 2K miles one for $32K. Both red.

In Canada they cost between $16K for a high mileage / Klickage 99 red and the local one is a blue 03 40K miles for $30K.

I can see that the 2K US Red 04 would be a great deal, compared to buying up here, but that 2000 for $14K and in driving distance, is just such a nice price, although the mileage scares me. Should it?

[QWK SVT]

You have emission testing in Ontario?

So making a Lightning as fast as a SC Marauder is much less money than making a Marauder fast.

How do Lightnings do on a road course. If I do any kind of racing it would be a road course style not drag racing. No I do not plan on being a profession racer. I wouldn't mind trying it out but it is not a career move.

Is the lightning and easy to get into truck? It doesn't look much bigger than a Marauder?

hmm There is a local place that has a Lightning, I guess I should go have a look.

Yeah we have emission testing over here - after the vehicle is a couple of years old, it has to be tested every two years. The test consists of a quick visuale inspection (they didn't even blink at the high flow mid pipes and two high flow cats, vs. 4 stock), and then put the vehicle on a dynomometer, and measure emissions under load, when a tailpipe sniffer. Now because of age, both the Lightning and Maraduer are due for tests this year, when my stickers are renewed :rolleyes:

In terms of twisties, I haven't x-crossed the truck, but I do feel it holds the road as well/better than the Marauder. As other have said, there are few guys who really put their L's to the test, and compete against "true sports cars" with only minimal handling mods.

The L is very easy to get in out - it's not super low, but not as high the new F150s, or fullsize trucks. Very comfortable, with lots of leg space & headroom (I'm 6'6" ~300, so this is important to me). There are no real blind spots (less than the car), and I can easily tell where the front & rear bumpers are. It's slightly shorter than the MM, and driving it normally / parking is kinda just a matter of point and go...

Re: the other messages
Go sit in a Lightning, and take it for a drive. They're a blast! You never really know how hard a used vehicle has been driven, but I would think twice about 114K miles. If in your price range, try for an 01+ for the revised intercooler, 3.73 gears and a few other minor things. Equally equiped, the 01+ always seems to be a little faster than the 99/00. Also, an 03/04 would get you the heads with more threads (but like I previously said, not too big a deal)...

[Dark_Knight7096]

Yea my L is nice. I put a CAI and mid-pipe and cat-back on it and I'm runnin 13.2 on street tires. This spring I plan on doing a new MAF, new injectors, new throttle body, upper plenum, shift kit, 6# lower, tune and some traction upgrades. I should easily be in the mid 12s if not lower. Lightnings not slow by any stretch of the means.

Look at the Terminators, 390hp supercharged. Take a 2001 Cobra and put an aftermarket blower on it and see how much more power you have the the Terminators. It's cause it's a stock eaton, they can't put b***s to the wall on a stock motor don't wanna make a motor that is close to being dangerous to itself. Plus with insurance rates you wanna make sure that your customers won't get off the lot to find HUGE insurance premiums.

[hyvltge]

Yea my L is nice. I put a CAI and mid-pipe and cat-back on it and I'm runnin 13.2 on street tires. This spring I plan on doing a new MAF, new injectors, new throttle body, upper plenum, shift kit, 6# lower, tune and some traction upgrades. I should easily be in the mid 12s if not lower. Lightnings not slow by any stretch of the means.

Off topic, but why new injectors. You shouldn't need them for the mods you have listed...? If I were you I would port the blower and do a 4lber so you are not spinning the Eaton that much faster. Also do a Factory tech Valve Body over a "shift kit" and as far as traction bars, go straight to the long bars and don't look back.

Okay, back to your regular program.

[94_302]

The fastest bone stock L ran a 13.0x I believe in Texas. No drag radials or anything done to the air box either. They are not slouches. Stock they will probably be decent competition for a blown marauder with no other mods. An L is comfortable surprisingly stable on the highway easy to get in and out of handles well and is a very versatile vehicle. Check out some L sites and talk to them about it I know there are a few that do road racing with their Gen 2. An L is even more fun to drive than the Marauder imo, it just does not have 4 doors but then again a Marauder does not have a bed in the back.

Saying an L is slow is like saying a new Mustang GT or an 01 Cobra is slow. It's just not true, now they are not the fastest things out there but they are not slow and should never be mentioned as just a bit quicker than a hyundai :rolleyes:

[QWK SVT]

Yea my L is nice. I put a CAI and mid-pipe and cat-back on it and I'm runnin 13.2 on street tires. This spring I plan on doing a new MAF, new injectors, new throttle body, upper plenum, shift kit, 6# lower, tune and some traction upgrades. I should easily be in the mid 12s if not lower. Lightnings not slow by any stretch of the means.



Off topic, but why new injectors. You shouldn't need them for the mods you have listed...? If I were you I would port the blower and do a 4lber so you are not spinning the Eaton that much faster. Also do a Factory tech Valve Body over a "shift kit" and as far as traction bars, go straight to the long bars and don't look back.

Okay, back to your regular program.

Sorry - I'll continue the off-topic discussion, one more post...

I agree with hyvltge - you won't need new injectors, yet.

Personally, I'd scrap the throttle body and plenum, and go with a ported blower. You'll see a nice increase in power, and less heatsoak, to boot. It reallys help with lowering the heat generated by spinning the Eaton with a 6lb lower. Plus the added "scream" of the Eaton is wild!

Since you have an '01, rather than getting a replacement MAF, look into a MAFia. Cheaper, and just as effective. If you're adding a 6lb, this is REQUIRED - you'll peg the stock MAF, for sure (I did with a ported Eaton and a 4lb lower:eek:).

You would have pretty much the same setup as I do. Best to date is 12.5's, but my MPH indicate a good launch should put me into the low 12's. You'll be in need of traction - I need slicks, before I head back to the track. As it is, I'm back to riding on F1s. The Goodyears go up in smoke at even light throttle, but the Nittos DRs I had lasted less than 10,000KM, so I'm hoping for a little bit better longevity, if I get a dedicated tire for the track...

PS - 13.2 for the modest mods is a really good slip! Was that done on F1s?

[Aren Jay]

QWK SVT

Do you drive your Marauder as your Winter Daily Driver? How does that work out for you?

As for a Lightning being slow, I was comparing it's 0-60MPH times to other cars. A Kenny Brown Marauder has a 0-60 time of around 4.5 seconds. Other SC Marauders are also in the 3.8-4.0 second range. There are a couple threads on this. 2004 Jaguar XJR's are in the 4.7-4.9 second 0-60MPH range. (they are not much more expensive than a Lightning either) The stock 0-60 Rating for the Lightning is only 5.6-5.8 second range. The same as a stock Toyota Corolla or Subaru WRX. (not the Sti).
The new Hyundai Genesis will soon be waving goodbye to Lightnings too.
Stock it is faster than a NA Marauder but much slower than a SC Marauder.

[Breadfan]

...The stock 0-60 Rating for the Lightning is only 5.6-5.8 second range. The same as a stock Toyota Corolla or Subaru WRX. .

LOL no way a Corolla can do that , I don't care how big the downhill is or how fast the tailwind is blowing. Even with an extra few squirrels under the hood.

I guess it's possible one way though, chain one up behind my MM and I bet I can get it going 60mph that quick.

[Raudermaster]

I think Diabolic is on a Chevy site reading these stats.:lol:

[94_302]

If all you are concerned about is 0-60 then look into the TT S4 and do a k04 turbo swap.

Go to nloc.net or f150online.com and look up some info. It's stock 0-60 may seem slow but it should still run about mid 13's stock (01-04) It's not easy to get 4k lbs moving. A KB Marauder or a blown Marauder have performance tunes. A stock Lightning has to stick to a very very conservative factory tune. Really check out some L boards because I think you will be surprised at the info you find.

[Aren Jay]

ahh, it was the Camry not the Corolla.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/12404/2007-toyota-camry-v-6.html

A friend bought one and was telling me how fast it was, I was just laughing until I looked it up.

Not laughing now.

[94_302]

ahh, it was the Camry not the Corolla.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/12404/2007-toyota-camry-v-6.html

A friend bought one and was telling me how fast it was, I was just laughing until I looked it up.

Not laughing now.

Yeah but look at the 1/4 they list it does not even trap 100 a stock L should have no problems beating on that. So again if you are looking for only 0-60 I suggest something with an AWD turbo setup that will just squat and go like an S4, Typhoon, Cyclone, e.t.c.

[Raudermaster]

IIRC, I wouldn't bet my money on a Turbo car vs. an S/C'd car in the 0-60...
And yes, the new Camry's move pretty good, WHEN in Sport shift, a guy at work just bought one and let me drive it.

[QWK SVT]

QWK SVT

Do you drive your Marauder as your Winter Daily Driver? How does that work out for you?

As for a Lightning being slow, I was comparing it's 0-60MPH times to other cars. A Kenny Brown Marauder has a 0-60 time of around 4.5 seconds. Other SC Marauders are also in the 3.8-4.0 second range. There are a couple threads on this. 2004 Jaguar XJR's are in the 4.7-4.9 second 0-60MPH range. (they are not much more expensive than a Lightning either) The stock 0-60 Rating for the Lightning is only 5.6-5.8 second range. The same as a stock Toyota Corolla or Subaru WRX. (not the Sti).
The new Hyundai Genesis will soon be waving goodbye to Lightnings too.
Stock it is faster than a NA Marauder but much slower than a SC Marauder.

Yeah - I drive the Marauder to/from work, all year round. My commute to work is about 25km each way, all on the Don Valley Parkway (the major highway going North-South to downtown Toronto). While I'm driving on a highway, it takes me ~45-minutes to make that drive, so I'm not even close to the speed limit. I NEED a comfortable car to not experience advanced stages of road rage!

I've always seen the Marauder as a nice driver, with creature comforts, etc. I replaced the stereo with an Eclipse GPS/DVD/MP3 unit, which is perfect for the longer drives, and much better than stock. This makes the drives much more enjoyable, and love the GPS for longer drives to unknown locations.

With the stop & go rush hour traffic here, I get around 17mpg with it, which is decent. In the winter, I shed the 18" wheels, for a set of 16" steelies, wrapped in Blizzaks. With the winter gas, I also see a little reduction in winter mileage... But, again, the key is that I'm comfortable the whole time...

PS - the Lightning's HP/TQ were quite underrated, yet you're still looking at the Ford published numbers for 0-60. If you can get the truck to hook well (like on a track), a sub 5-second 0-60 is possible. A realistic range on the street with a decent driver is more likely 5.2-5.4, bone stock.

[Aren Jay]

Sounds Good.

I have been hesitant to take my Marauder out in the snow. I do not want some Calgary moron to drive into it, present company excluded.

:)

The Marauder does work pretty good, it is no subie though, in the white stuff. The traction control, which now appears to be working, kicks in and makes me wonder what is going on, although it has saved me a couple times.

So how does a Lightning drive in snow?

If I have to go pick up some cargo will I have to wait for a Chinook?

[Raudermaster]

Car and Liar you mean?

[Aren Jay]

I edited it.

[QWK SVT]

So how does a Lightning drive in snow?

The Lightning comes with 295-45-18 Goodyear F1's. Not good tires for the winter, I'm afraid. The tire compound is GREAT for summer, but questionable, in the cold. If the temps are below 5*C, I tend to leave the truck behind for the Marauder, instead... I live about 500 metres from a gas station that performs emission testing (which had to be done last December). Going there and back is the only trip the lightning has made in snow. I'll tell you - it was not fun getting back into the garage (decent uphill slope with a little light dusting of snow on top of it).

Having said that, I know a local owner (truck is 100% stock) who slaps on a set of F150 16" wheels wrapped with blizzaks, and swears by it. He had a 4x4 199x Silverado before, and says the Lightning is every bit as capable... YMMV.

[Raudermaster]

The guy at work who has an SRT-8 Cherokee, had two previous L's, both pushing 550+rwhp. He only drove one of them in the winter time (obviously de-tuned) with a set of steelies and snow tires and he was fine. I believe he added a few hundred pounds in the bed.

[Aren Jay]

I'm getting the feeling that snow tires are the winter answer and that awd/4wd does not matter that much. Yes having had an AWD I can vouch for the starting capabilities of them in the snow, but they do not slow down or turn any better, unless you are power turning. :)

Something to look into.

I still wouldn't mind having a Blue Light Flint Marauder for winter though.