This is still our country - right?

[BAD MERC]

This video pissed me off faster in 36 seconds than anything I have ever seen. Can anybody explain who does this and sleeps at night???

http://seeingredaz.wordpress.com/2008/02/26/english-speaking-firefighters-being-fired/

[sailsmen]

I hope they file a complaint with the EEOC and sue.

We need a constitutional amendment that english is the official language.

I and my family are firm believers in this and english is not the first language of all my family memebers.

Egnlish is the mechanism that enables us to all communicate and become "one Nation under God".

[UncleLar]

Not for long. It's become a country full of sheep and soon they're gonna get sheared and bar b q'd.

[jgc61sr2002]

That's total BS.:mad2:

[Raudermaster]

That makes me angry. I hate that *****. I have nothing against Spanish people, I work with them, and some of them are really great and are extrememly nice, but they speak English well so they can communicate. I mean, if you want to come to this country, speak the English.

[FreddieH]

We will soon be "The United States Of Mexico". We are slowly being converted from within. I am far from predjudice but, We need to build the Wall, Now!

[UncleLar]

The liberals are giving the country away,it'll be a toss up to see if we have to learn spanish before the radical muslims take over the joint and cut everybody's heads off with a butcher knife.

[BAD MERC]

I just wanted to add - Firefighters are public heroes. You DO NOT F%$K with them. This is one more reason why this Country needs to assimilate to one form of communication. I take this a lot more personally than most people and I don't know if I ever explained why I am so passionate about it. I raised my ex's daughter for 6 years, she is deaf and uses a cochlear implant and INSISTS on speaking and not signing. It is frustrating and saddening to watch her order at a restaurant but she demands to be treated equal. However - I bet they would grind to a halt to accomodate someboy with NO English and 5 children. You know - like in health care!

[quota]

Incredible !
But we also have some similar issues here. They are called the "granted reasonable accomodations".
Recently in Montreal, it was planned to forbid the decorating of our streets during the Christmas time because "the Christmas tree is seen as a religious symbol" by the non christians communities, and it makes them frustrated. So far the project did not go through but I am sure it will come back for further discussions.
Besides, some measures were adopted in favor of the "non christian" communities, like the derogation to wearing a helmet to some specific community bikers. and the permission to come to the classroom with a "kirpah" (a long knife) for some children because of their religious rituals.

No more comments.
JP

[Aren Jay]

Oregan is wierd. Besides you should all learn Chinese, as the Chinese own most of your country now.

[UncleLar]

"the permission to come to the classroom with a "kirpah" (a long knife) for some children because of their religious rituals."
You got to be kidding! There's a real numbskull idiotic practice.Are they going to wait for some poor kid to get shanked before they put a halt to that stupidity.
Good old common sense has gone the way of the dodo bird,there's not a lick of horse sense left in any of the politicians or legislators,appeasement has become the law of the land.
Screw that crap,we need to stand up and make it known that we're sick to death of giving the country away,if everything is so great where these idiots came from then send them the hell back there. If they want to become a law abiding productive member of the country and a citizen then do it the legal way and we'll welcome you with open arms.Otherwise get the #%@* out!
Anybody that comes to another country to live there should expect to change to conform with that society,not the other way around.:mad2::soap:

[larryo340]

We need a constitutional amendment that english is the official language.

I and my family are firm believers in this and english is not the first language of all my family memebers.

Egnlish is the mechanism that enables us to all communicate and become "one Nation under God".

^^^^^^+1
When my grandparents and uncle came over from Europe they spoke no english. They knew it was very important to learn "OUR" language. They told me that was what made them feel more American, and were proud the wave the American flag.
http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:AFe-TItaJg8STM:http://h2o.enr.state.nc.us/ndceu/AmericanFlag.jpg (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://h2o.enr.state.nc.us/ndceu/AmericanFlag.jpg&imgrefurl=http://h2o.enr.state.nc.us/ndceu/Mission.html&h=1055&w=1173&sz=72&hl=en&start=17&tbnid=AFe-TItaJg8STM:&tbnh=135&tbnw=150&prev=/images%3Fq%3Damerican%2Bflag%2 6gbv%3D2%26ndsp%3D20%26hl%3Den %26sa%3DN)
I think the problem is that the past immagrants felt it was a privelage to come to America, and now immagrants feel that it's thier right to come here :mad2:

As sailsmen says we must make english our official language.

[sailsmen]

Oregan is wierd. Besides you should all learn Chinese, as the Chinese own most of your country now.

The Chinese do not own most of the US. Our economy is over 3 times bigger than ChiComs.Chinese ownership of things in the US is minimal. We heard the same thing about the Japanese in the 1980's.

Just because Chinese have chosen to invest in the dollar does not mean it owns us.

Try to bring a Bible to an Oregon school for religious purposes and see what happens.

[SILVERSURFER03]

Well If I Were To Move To Mexico Or Another Foriegn Speaking Country I Wouln't Expect Them To Speake Or Learn My Language I Myself Would Want To Learn Theres . So I Could Function Better In The Country....so If You Moved To The U.s. Then You Should Learn English..



Btw: It Sounded A Little Better In My Head ..my Fingers Are Having A Hard Time Translating To Text

[Blk Mamba]

When I returned from VN in the early 70's I spoke on how we should close our borders, bring our troops home, and protect the "homeland", at that time people laughed at me, now those same people are running around wondering what to do next. As I have said before close the borders, & bring our troops home. We have the intelligence and natural resources to accommodate ourselves very nicely. This action would also help the economy, everyone would have a job, just because you don't like the job you have would be a great deterrent for dropping out of school for our youth. Our next action should be to drop our membership in the UN, (what a worthless organization) do nothing, and let the US save the world, as we go belly up. I'm sorry I guess I shouldn't read these threads, I know how it upsets me.

[ts-pa]

Well If I Were To Move To Mexico Or Another Foriegn Speaking Country I Wouln't Expect Them To Speake Or Learn My Language I Myself Would Want To Learn Theres . So I Could Function Better In The Country....so If You Moved To The U.s. Then You Should Learn English..



Btw: It Sounded A Little Better In My Head ..my Fingers Are Having A Hard Time Translating To Text

^^^+1 You stated it just fine

[duhtroll]

And once again -- myth. Holy f*** you guys can spread a lie faster than Superman could. When are you folks going to understand that FOX News LIES? (Well, all news lies, Fox just does it more often.)

From oregon.gov. Took 5 seconds to find.

http://www.oregon.gov/ODF/FireCrewLa...uirement.shtml

I added bold to the relevant parts.

ODF's role
The department is responsible for fire protection on privately owned forestland, and on forests owned by the state, the U.S. Bureau of Land Management and several other public entities. The greatest share of ODF-protected land is privately owned.

The U.S. Forest Service, the largest single owner of forestland in Oregon, is responsible for fire protection on its lands, which are particularly vulnerable to large, severe fires (such as the recent Biscuit and B&B Fires). However, all agencies work together to ensure the most efficient and effective fire protection.

Crews retained under the contracting system operated by ODF are available for use by other public land management agencies, all of which have similar standards for crew training, equipment and performance. These agencies work together through an entity called the Pacific Northwest Wildfire Coordinating Group.

Use of private contractors
Public agencies are not staffed to provide a full complement of front-line firefighters during the summer.

Although firefighting companies have existed for decades, the industry has expanded rapidly in recent years. This has been in response to a series of large fires, to reductions in public-agency firefighting resources and the downsizing of the forest products industry workforce.

The expansion has not been without growing pains. While many contractors have consistently performed well, others have had problems including poor crew supervision, language barriers, unqualified personnel, equipment deficiencies, alcohol and drug use, and inadequate incident performance.

ODF and other public agencies initially lacked the capacity to administer a rapidly growing number of contracts.

Given the limited staffs of public land management agencies, it is in the public interest to have a well-qualified private firefighting industry. The industry needs to be sized to meet the need, balancing stability with competition to provide the best service. This is challenging, given that the severity of the fire season changes substantially from year to year.

Recent rapid improvements
Progress includes:

* Adding staff at ODF to more closely monitor firefighting contracts.
* Refining standards, and sanctioning or disqualifying individuals and companies that do not meet them
* Phasing in during the 2006 fire season of an interagency “best value” system. Bidding companies are ranked based on a set of criteria, including pricing and past performance, and contracts and dispatches to fires are given accordingly.
* Increased partnership with industry groups and with state and federal agencies, including the state Bureau of Labor and Industries, OR-OSHA, and U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement.


Language requirements
English is the language of wildland firefighting. It is the national standard. It is spoken in briefings and on two-way radios, and is the language of operating plans, reports and other documents.

Hispanic and Native American contract crews have operated in the west with bilingual leadership since the 1960s.

The number of Hispanic crews in the Northwest has increased markedly in recent years. A count of Spanish surnames on crew rosters suggests that about 85 percent of current contract firefighters are of Hispanic descent. This rough estimate doesn’t indicate how many crew members speak English.

There is no contract requirement that supervisors on contract crews speak any language other than English. There is a requirement that supervisors be able to communicate with the workers for whom they are responsible. This is essential to ensure that all personnel are made aware of safety hazards that can develop quickly in firefighting.

Consequently, if private companies elect to hire crew members who do not speak English, those supervisors must be bilingual or multilingual.

Clackamas Community College in cooperation with ODF has developed a standardized language evaluation process to assure that crew supervisors of non-English speaking crews have adequate English language skills (reading and speaking) to operate safely and effectively in the all English language fire management environment.

The test will also assure they are able to translate important fire operations and fire safety information to their non-English speaking crewmembers.

This language skill assessment has been used to test 80 contract crew leaders this spring, with 40 more to be tested in July. The assessment will become a required element in contracts in 2007.

Clackamas Community College offers English language classes to those who do not pass the language test.

Public agencies have not found it necessary to require all frontline crew members to speak English. Bilingual supervision has proved successful in ensuring adequate crew safety and performance.

Due to the nature of the work, English proficiency is required for direct employment by ODF.

No ODF employees have been fired or demoted because of any language requirement; there is no requirement other than English proficiency for agency employees.

Immigration status monitoring
Contractors must certify that they have complied with federal immigration laws, and must fill out the I-9 forms required of all employers.

Because social security number anomolies are common among illegal immigrants, contractors this year are being asked to take extra steps to verify the numbers they are given. Land management agencies are working increasingly with federal immigration authorities, the experts in this area, to improve monitoring if immigration status.

Learn more
If you would like more information about the Oregon Department of Forestry's Interagency Crew Contract, contact:

Jim Walker
Oregon Department of Forestry
Protection From Fire Program
2600 State Street
Salem, OR 97310
PH: 503-945-7437
email: jwalker@odf.state.or.us

[sailsmen]

I suggest you listen to the video as there are no lies. Firefighting Supervisors are being fired because they do not speak in this case Spanish as required by the State of Oregon.

The very requirement you provide verifies this.

If the State of Oregon were truely interested in safety they would require everyone to speak english and pass the english proficiency test.

The facts are that someone in this country was fired because they only spoke english because a government regulation required they speak a language other than english.

[BAD MERC]

And once again -- myth. Holy f*** you guys can spread a lie faster than Superman could. When are you folks going to understand that FOX News LIES? (Well, all news lies, Fox just does it more often.)

From oregon.gov. Took 5 seconds to find.

http://www.oregon.gov/ODF/FireCrewLa...uirement.shtml

I added bold to the relevant parts.

ODF's role
The department is responsible for fire protection on privately owned forestland, and on forests owned by the state, the U.S. Bureau of Land Management and several other public entities. The greatest share of ODF-protected land is privately owned.

The U.S. Forest Service, the largest single owner of forestland in Oregon, is responsible for fire protection on its lands, which are particularly vulnerable to large, severe fires (such as the recent Biscuit and B&B Fires). However, all agencies work together to ensure the most efficient and effective fire protection.

Crews retained under the contracting system operated by ODF are available for use by other public land management agencies, all of which have similar standards for crew training, equipment and performance. These agencies work together through an entity called the Pacific Northwest Wildfire Coordinating Group.

Use of private contractors
Public agencies are not staffed to provide a full complement of front-line firefighters during the summer.

Although firefighting companies have existed for decades, the industry has expanded rapidly in recent years. This has been in response to a series of large fires, to reductions in public-agency firefighting resources and the downsizing of the forest products industry workforce.

The expansion has not been without growing pains. While many contractors have consistently performed well, others have had problems including poor crew supervision, language barriers, unqualified personnel, equipment deficiencies, alcohol and drug use, and inadequate incident performance.

ODF and other public agencies initially lacked the capacity to administer a rapidly growing number of contracts.

Given the limited staffs of public land management agencies, it is in the public interest to have a well-qualified private firefighting industry. The industry needs to be sized to meet the need, balancing stability with competition to provide the best service. This is challenging, given that the severity of the fire season changes substantially from year to year.

Recent rapid improvements
Progress includes:

* Adding staff at ODF to more closely monitor firefighting contracts.
* Refining standards, and sanctioning or disqualifying individuals and companies that do not meet them
* Phasing in during the 2006 fire season of an interagency “best value” system. Bidding companies are ranked based on a set of criteria, including pricing and past performance, and contracts and dispatches to fires are given accordingly.
* Increased partnership with industry groups and with state and federal agencies, including the state Bureau of Labor and Industries, OR-OSHA, and U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement.


Language requirements
English is the language of wildland firefighting. It is the national standard. It is spoken in briefings and on two-way radios, and is the language of operating plans, reports and other documents.

Hispanic and Native American contract crews have operated in the west with bilingual leadership since the 1960s.

The number of Hispanic crews in the Northwest has increased markedly in recent years. A count of Spanish surnames on crew rosters suggests that about 85 percent of current contract firefighters are of Hispanic descent. This rough estimate doesn’t indicate how many crew members speak English.

There is no contract requirement that supervisors on contract crews speak any language other than English. There is a requirement that supervisors be able to communicate with the workers for whom they are responsible. This is essential to ensure that all personnel are made aware of safety hazards that can develop quickly in firefighting.

Consequently, if private companies elect to hire crew members who do not speak English, those supervisors must be bilingual or multilingual.

Clackamas Community College in cooperation with ODF has developed a standardized language evaluation process to assure that crew supervisors of non-English speaking crews have adequate English language skills (reading and speaking) to operate safely and effectively in the all English language fire management environment.

The test will also assure they are able to translate important fire operations and fire safety information to their non-English speaking crewmembers.

This language skill assessment has been used to test 80 contract crew leaders this spring, with 40 more to be tested in July. The assessment will become a required element in contracts in 2007.

Clackamas Community College offers English language classes to those who do not pass the language test.

Public agencies have not found it necessary to require all frontline crew members to speak English. Bilingual supervision has proved successful in ensuring adequate crew safety and performance.

Due to the nature of the work, English proficiency is required for direct employment by ODF.

No ODF employees have been fired or demoted because of any language requirement; there is no requirement other than English proficiency for agency employees.

Immigration status monitoring
Contractors must certify that they have complied with federal immigration laws, and must fill out the I-9 forms required of all employers.

Because social security number anomolies are common among illegal immigrants, contractors this year are being asked to take extra steps to verify the numbers they are given. Land management agencies are working increasingly with federal immigration authorities, the experts in this area, to improve monitoring if immigration status.

Learn more
If you would like more information about the Oregon Department of Forestry's Interagency Crew Contract, contact:

Jim Walker
Oregon Department of Forestry
Protection From Fire Program
2600 State Street
Salem, OR 97310
PH: 503-945-7437
email: jwalker@odf.state.or.us



The post wasn't there to be scrutinized or corrected - I didn't write it. Nor was it made up, it was plainly on a "reputable" newscast. Whether real or not, the epiphany that this MAY HAVE BEEN the idea of a total idiot and made law by more idiots scares the crap out of me. Whether you want to face the facts or ignore it- this Country is at war. Our enemy walks across the border, multiplies like a plague to attain citizenship and uses any and all resources until they are gone. We will lose that war - it is a mathematical certainty.:mad2:

[duhtroll]

No offense, dude, but you need to read better.

"There is no contract requirement that supervisors on contract crews speak any language other than English."

"No ODF employees have been fired or demoted because of any language requirement; there is no requirement other than English proficiency for agency employees."


I suggest you listen to the video as there are no lies. Firefighting Supervisors are being fired because they do not speak in this case Spanish as required by the State of Oregon.

The very requirement you provide verifies this.

If the State of Oregon were truely interested in safety they would require everyone to speak english and pass the english proficiency test.

[duhtroll]

You can have your paranoia - that's your right as an American. :rolleyes:

However, the facts as you presented them are incorrect. I'm sorry you don't like that.

Back to your regularly scheduled ranting.


The post wasn't there to be scrutinized or corrected - I didn't write it. Nor was it made up, it was plainly on a "reputable" newscast. Whether real or not, the epiphany that this MAY HAVE BEEN the idea of a total idiot and made law by more idiots scares the crap out of me. Whether you want to face the facts or ignore it- this Country is at war. Our enemy walks across the border, multiplies like a plague to attain citizenship and uses any and all resources until they are gone. We will lose that war - it is a mathematical certainty.:mad2:

[BAD MERC]

I am not paranoid my friend. Reality has taught me what to expect. I am not here to fight about anything - sorry you turned it that way.

[duhtroll]

Just because they are all out to get you, it doesn't mean you aren't paranoid.

:eek:


I am not paranoid my friend. Reality has taught me what to expect. I am not here to fight about anything - sorry you turned it that way.

[sailsmen]

No offense, dude, but you need to read better.

"There is no contract requirement that supervisors on contract crews speak any language other than English."

"No ODF employees have been fired or demoted because of any language requirement; there is no requirement other than English proficiency for agency employees."


So what does this mean? Maybe your ENGLISH is better than mine?
"Consequently, if private companies elect to hire crew members who do not speak English, those supervisors must be bilingual or multilingual.

Are you saying the above is not a requirement? What sort of double talk are you spouting? By their own admission as much as 85% speak spanish.



The following shows they are testing supervisors to make certain they are adequate in English and stresses how important communication is for safety. Given how important communication in English is for safety why are these same supervisors not tested for their non-english language skills?


'Clackamas Community College in cooperation with ODF has developed a standardized language evaluation process to assure that crew supervisors of non-English speaking crews have adequate English language skills (reading and speaking) to operate safely and effectively in the all English language fire management environment.

The test will also assure they are able to translate important fire operations and fire safety information to their non-English speaking crewmembers."

The Firefighter Supervisor was not fired for being incompetent or unable to communicate with his crew, he was fired because he could not speak a language other than english per the ODF requirement.

[duhtroll]

"Consequently, if private companies elect to hire crew members who do not speak English, those supervisors must be bilingual or multilingual.

Are you saying the above is not a requirement?

Of course I am, because ODF is also. In your own quote (of my quote of their quote), it says PRIVATE company (i.e. no state requirement), and ELECT, which means it's optional.


The following shows they are testing supervisors to make certain they are adequate in English and stresses how important communication is for safety. Given how important communication in English is for safety why are these same supervisors not tested for their non-english language skills?

'Clackamas Community College in cooperation with ODF has developed a standardized language evaluation process to assure that crew supervisors of non-English speaking crews have adequate English language skills (reading and speaking) to operate safely and effectively in the all English language fire management environment.

The test will also assure they are able to translate important fire operations and fire safety information to their non-English speaking crewmembers."

Looks like they were more concerned with making sure the supervisor could speak enough English to do his job.


The Firefighter Supervisor was not fired for being incompetent or unable to communicate with his crew, he was fired because he could not speak a language other than english per the ODF requirement.

What about

"No ODF employees have been fired or demoted because of any language requirement;

do you not understand?

[sailsmen]

I understand perfectly. Apparently my English is better than yours.

The video from Fox News says FIREFIGHTERs were fired because the State of Oregon requires Crew Boses to speak the language of the crew even if only one crew member does not speak ENGLISH. The State of Oregon would not comment on why it does not require the crew to speak English.

Lets try it this way;

Why was the FIREFIGHTER CREW BOSS Fired? Because he did not speak Spanish.

Who required the FIREFIGHTER CREW BOSS to speak Spanish ("those supervisors must be bilingual or multilingual")? The ODF.

Was the FIREFIGHTER CREW BOSS who spoke ENGLISH fired for being incompetent or not able to supervise his crew? NO.

Was the crew member who cannot speak ENGLISH ("English is the language of wildland firefighting. It is the national standard. It is spoken in briefings and on two-way radios, and is the language of operating plans, reports and other documents.) fired? No.

Had the FIREFIGHTER CREW BOSS spoken Spanish would he have been fired? No.

Based on the ODF document you provided everything in the Fox News video is true.

You are using double speak. You are ignoring the word must and stating that only ODF employees are fire fighters when that is clearly not the case.

The only lie is your double speak and twisting.

You are ignoring that a FIREFIGHTER was fired because he does not speak spanish which is a must per ODF.

The safe thing is to require all to be profiicent in ENGLISH the official language of wildland firefighting.

[duhtroll]

Except that you're still incorrect.

A private company was NOT mentioned in the video -- the video strongly implies that they are speaking of the ODF (by their mention of the State of Oregon) So who are they talking about?

OK, let's say there IS a private company that inspired the video, even though FOX neglected to say that OR name them AND implied that it is the State of Oregon that is employing them.

The statement causing the problem is here:

Consequently, if private companies elect to hire crew members who do not speak English, those supervisors must be bilingual or multilingual.

*IF* they ELECT to hire a worker who speaks only Spanish then the private company, not the state, is to blame.

Private companies can normally do as they wish with regard to personnel. They can have their own standards. The only time they would be subject to ODF regulations is IF THEY WERE WORKING FOR THE STATE, or ODF.

Personally, I don't see how it's even possible to employ a crew boss for more than a day who can't communicate with their own line, or even hire someone who can't understand safety instructions, so where is this company and who are the people being fired? Does that even make sense to you? Who the f*** hires someone who can't do the job and then complains about having to fire them? Is Homer Simpson their safety inspector?

"I hired people who can't communicate with one another, so I'm going to go complain that the State made me fire them."

ODF says no one has been fired or demoted for language reasons. When they contract their work, the people whom they contract are legally their employees for the duration of the job.

I agree with changing the regulation so that workers learn English. However, if you need workers now and have people willing to do the job, do you have the time needed to teach them? Don't you think they would hire any English speaking worker they could find?

This whole situation seems contrived to fuel paranoia.


I understand perfectly. Apparently my English is better than yours.

The video from Fox News says FIREFIGHTERs were fired because the State of Oregon requires Crew Boses to speak the language of the crew even if only one crew member does not speak ENGLISH. The State of Oregon would not comment on why it does not require the crew to speak English.

Lets try it this way;

Why was the FIREFIGHTER CREW BOSS Fired? Because he did not speak Spanish.

Who required the FIREFIGHTER CREW BOSS to speak Spanish ("those supervisors must be bilingual or multilingual")? The ODF.

Was the FIREFIGHTER CREW BOSS who spoke ENGLISH fired for being incompetent or not able to supervise his crew? NO.

Was the crew member who cannot speak ENGLISH ("English is the language of wildland firefighting. It is the national standard. It is spoken in briefings and on two-way radios, and is the language of operating plans, reports and other documents.) fired? No.

Had the FIREFIGHTER CREW BOSS spoken Spanish would he have been fired? No.

Based on the ODF document you provided everything in the Fox News video is true.

You are using double speak. You are ignoring the word must and stating that only ODF employees are fire fighters when that is clearly not the case.

The only lie is your double speak and twisting.

You are ignoring that a FIREFIGHTER was fired because he does not speak spanish which is a must per ODF.

The safe thing is to require all to be profiicent in ENGLISH the official language of wildland firefighting.

[Aren Jay]

Are the Spanish folk legals?

[Bluerauder]

This whole situation seems contrived to fuel paranoia.
Won't be long before teachers and band instructors are required to be bilingual or multi-lingual. :rolleyes:

Stick YOUR head in the sand if you wish .... but the problem is there today and it is growing.

[sailsmen]

Except that you're still incorrect.

A private company was NOT mentioned in the video -- the video strongly implies that they are speaking of the ODF (by their mention of the State of Oregon) So who are they talking about?

The video is about FIREFIGHTERS. Why do you refuse to accept that there are FIREFIGHTERS who are not employees of ODF? The ODF document clearly states there are.

OK, let's say there IS a private company that inspired the video, even though FOX neglected to say that OR name them AND implied that it is the State of Oregon that is employing them.

The statement causing the problem is here:

Consequently, if private companies elect to hire crew members who do not speak English, those supervisors must be bilingual or multilingual.

*IF* they ELECT to hire a worker who speaks only Spanish then the private company, not the state, is to blame.

How do you blame the private company when it is the State of Oregon that says they MUST speak a language other than english? Again the FIREFIGHTER CREW BOSS was not fired for incompetence or inability to communicate with his crew.

Private companies can normally do as they wish with regard to personnel. They can have their own standards. The only time they would be subject to ODF regulations is IF THEY WERE WORKING FOR THE STATE, or ODF.

What other entities are hiring FIREFIGHTERS? The issue is what the STATE OF OREGON a government entiety is requiring, not what private companies are requiring.

Personally, I don't see how it's even possible to employ a crew boss for more than a day who can't communicate with their own line, or even hire someone who can't understand safety instructions, so where is this company and who are the people being fired? Does that even make sense to you? Who the f*** hires someone who can't do the job and then complains about having to fire them? Is Homer Simpson their safety inspector?

"I hired people who can't communicate with one another, so I'm going to go complain that the State made me fire them."

No one was fired for not being able to communicate. They were fired becasue they do not speak Spanish which is a MUST by the ODF.Exactly my point, if it's about safety then why is there no proficincy test for the FIREFIGHTERS CREW BOSS to speak Spanish?

ODF says no one has been fired or demoted for language reasons. When they contract their work, the people whom they contract are legally their employees for the duration of the job.

ODF says no EMPLOYEES have been fired. FIREFIGHTING CREW BOSSES working for private companies are not ODF employees per your own statements and quotes.

I agree with changing the regulation so that workers learn English. However, if you need workers now and have people willing to do the job, do you have the time needed to teach them? Don't you think they would hire any English speaking worker they could find?

This whole situation seems contrived to fuel paranoia.

Nothing in the video is untrue or misleading. It appears you have applied your own personal prejudices which lead you to your own incorrect conclusions.

Thank you for posting the ODF memo which validates a gov't entity is requiring a language other then english be spoken causing people who only speak english to be fired and hiring crews of people who do not speak english.

Just imagine when your house is on fire and a fire truck pulls up with all spanish speaking except one english speaking. The english is ovecome with smoke and you are trying to tell them a fmaily member is trapped in the basement. Or a police officer, or EMT at an accident scene or an Emergency Room.

If you think this is not possible one only look at the proposed statue representing Firemen erecting the flag at the Twin Towers.

This is why we need a Constitutional Amendment making English the official language.

[duhtroll]

Nothing in the video is untrue or misleading. It appears you have applied your own personal prejudices which lead you to your own incorrect conclusions.

If it's not misleading, then why are we having this conversation?

One single word could have solved the problem. Instead of "firefighters" he could have said "contracted firefighters." If that is what he meant, which is in doubt, that would have made it clear. But he didn't. It would not have even added one full second to the "sound byte" journalistic info-tainment episode that FN is known for. (and you wonder why they are labeled as biased?)

Unfortunately FOX News "editors" are about as unbiased as JJ Jameson.


Thank you for posting the ODF memo which validates a gov't entity is requiring a language other then english be spoken causing people who only speak english to be fired and hiring crews of people who do not speak english.

The source I posted shows NO ONE HAS BEN FIRED for any language requirement. You choose to ignore that because you can't let it go.

The only "requirement" is for private companies (i.e. NOT government entities) when they choose to hire non-English speaking workers. They have a provision that allows them to do so provided they can communicate.

You know, choose. Meaning it's NOT REQUIRED that they hire them AT ALL. If they WANT to and have a crew boss who can speak both English and Spanish, they have that option.

I'm still waiting for either the name of the company doing the firing or the person(s) being fired. Seems that would be important to the story, or do you just take FOX News anchor guy's word for it? :laugh:

You'd rather restrict the jobs to only those who speak English. What if there aren't enough firefighters? (which, BTW was the first sentence of the video you are touting as iron-clad truth)

Given the two choices -- waiting for people who speak English and losing lives and resources as a result of the delay, or getting the job done right away, I'll take the latter.

Given your scenario -- MY house will be safe, because I won't be so stupid as to tell people I'd rather be saved by someone who only speaks English. Also, I speak enough Spanish necessary to be safe in such a situation.

(Oh, and band directors often ARE multilingual, at least to the point of knowing key words and phrases. You know, many of the people who wrote music did so in a language other than English...) It's called learning about the world outside your own hometown. Try it sometime.

[sailsmen]

"And once again -- myth. Holy f*** you guys can spread a lie faster than Superman could. When are you folks going to understand that FOX News LIES? (Well, all news lies, Fox just does it more often.)"

You ignore the word employee and must. You do so because you are the liar who is spreading the lie. You made incorrect assumptions because of your own prejudices. Your prejudices lead you to accusing us of spreading a lie.

The video from Fox News says FIREFIGHTERs were fired because the State of Oregon requires Crew Boses to speak the language of the crew even if only one crew member does not speak ENGLISH. The State of Oregon would not comment on why it does not require the crew to speak English.

"Lets try it this way;

Why was the FIREFIGHTER CREW BOSS Fired? Because he did not speak Spanish.

Who required the FIREFIGHTER CREW BOSS to speak Spanish ("those supervisors must be bilingual or multilingual")? The ODF.

Was the FIREFIGHTER CREW BOSS who spoke ENGLISH fired for being incompetent or not able to supervise his crew? NO.

Was the crew member who cannot speak ENGLISH ("English is the language of wildland firefighting. It is the national standard. It is spoken in briefings and on two-way radios, and is the language of operating plans, reports and other documents.) fired? No.

Had the FIREFIGHTER CREW BOSS spoken Spanish would he have been fired? No.

Based on the ODF document you provided everything in the Fox News video is true.

You are using double speak. You are ignoring the word must and stating that only ODF employees are fire fighters when that is clearly not the case."

What languages I do or do not speak or where I have lived have no bearing on the facts or the merits of this case. You are only using it as a distraction by trying to imply you know more about the world than I which is another example of your prejudice.

[Bluerauder]

No wonder this country is so screwed up. :rolleyes: Symantics. I guess it just depends "What the Meaning of is IS".

Somehow .... this seems appropriate.

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showcase/files/1/8/9/1/ArgueFool.gif

[Blk Mamba]

It is better to remain silent, and seem a "fool" then to speak, and remove all doubt.

[duhtroll]

Look, I don't have any colorful hand puppets available, so this will have to do.

1) No one was fired according to the ODF. If you insist someone was, show me who and where. FOX News certainly didn't name them or the company doing it, so we're not even sure if they are TALKING about a private company. ODF says none of their employees have been fired, and since contracted companies are employees when they work for ODF, that includes their contracts.

Now, for argument's sake, let's assume someone HAS been fired.

2) A firefighting company doesn't have to hire non-English speaking persons in the first place. The only thing they are required to do is be able to communicate with them IF THEY ELECT TO HIRE THEM.

3) No one is forcing anyone to do anything. It is completely, totally optional for any business to even enter into this scenario.

4) The ODF, which oversees all firefighting in the state of Oregon, has stated that no one is required to speak any language other than English, and NO SUPERVISOR is required to do so, either.

5) If a company doesn't have a bilingual crew boss and then hires people that they cannot communicate with, they are retarded.

Anyone who puts themselves into a situation with a non-functional crew (because they cannot communicate with each other) has much bigger problems than a state regulation.

You believe FOX News. I believe the ODF. I'm saying if you're going to prove someone has been fired, provide that person's name and/or company. And even if you do, I'll show you a supervisor with an IQ below 80 for getting themselves into that situation in the first place.

If anything, this regulation is a deterrent to hiring non-English speaking workers. The only non-English speakers who can be employed are those at companies who happen to have a bilingual crew boss.

If a company doesn't have one, what possible reason would they be so f***ing stupid as to hire people who can't speak English?

If said company (which is not even certain that's what we're talking about, because FOX News, that bastion of truth, never bothered to explain who they were talking about) would just hire workers who speak English, they have no worries about this regulation in the first place.

Do you understand yet, or do I need to break out the crayons?

[duhtroll]

I'll even put this another way. You'll have to imagine the sock puppets as I don't have my webcam handy.

Smilin' Bob (the Enzyte guy, so you have a visual) is a supervisor at his company, "Firefighters for Hire."

He wants to hire some new firefighters. Some applicants speak English, some do not. Knowing that he doesn't want to put up with any problems with regulations, he hires only those workers who speak English.

Smilin' Bob enjoys a long career of fighting fires and having sex with many women.

---------------------------------------


Happy Sam is also a supervisor at his company, "Guys Who Fight Fires, Inc." He also is in the market for some new workers. He knows that there are lots of applicants who don't speak English and he knows the state will make sure that if he hires them, the crew boss must be able to speak with them so they don't burn up and die.

Sam goes to his crew boss one summer morning and asks "Hey, Crew Boss Steve, can you speak Spanish?" Crew Boss Steve says "Why SURE, Sam. I took several years of it in high school and I've passed the Spanish proficiency course."

Happy Sam hires whoever the f*** he wants, knowing that Crew Boss Steve can do the job he is paid to do. Happy Sam is also set upon by many voluptuous females.

----------------------------------------------


Frownin' Pete, yet another supervisor at another company "Firefighting Business for the not-so-Bright," is, you guessed it, ALSO in the market for some new help.

Not bothering to check whether or not his crew boss habla Espanol, Frownin' Pete hires the first 10 schlubs that come through the door.

Three days later, Frownin' Pete's crew boss, Ollie, approaches him. "Hey Pete, I'm having trouble communicating with these guys on the line - didja know they don't speak a word of English?"

Pete replies "Why heck, no, Ollie. I never done thoughta that. Looks like you'll have to turn in your equipment and hit the road."

Ollie asks "Why don't ya just fire the guys you just hired? I have been here for 11 years and the state regulation is that firefighting orders are to be given in English only! I certainly deserve to be here more than they do!"

Pete replies, "Well, I'm not that smart, and besides, some guy at FOX News wants a story . . ."

Ollie beats Pete to death with a shovel and does the world a favor.

[quota]

What happens in you country is non sense. It also happens up north where I currently live.

I think that one of the first requirement setting the condition for a candidate to immigrate is a minimum proficiency in the hosting country language. And not only for economical and social reasons. Besides, there should be some process during which the immigrant would integrate the values of the welcoming country. It should not be that hard, supposing that the immigrant is coming for a "better" life - otherwise he should/would stay home . That integration process must therefore be backed up by some strong motivations, whatever they are philosophical, political, economical or whatever else.

I have been living in different countries before landing here. My opinion is that you are too "liberal" - in the sense of being too kind. Immigration policies should be set for strengthening the hosting country. And not for disrupting it !

jp

[Haggis]

What happens in you country is non sense. It also happens up north where I currently live.

I think that one of the first requirement setting the condition for a candidate to immigrate is a minimum proficiency of the hosting country language. And not only for economical and social reasons. Besides, there should be some process during which the immigrant would integrate the values of the welcoming country. It should not be that hard, supposing that the immigrant is coming for a "better" life - otherwise he should/would stay home . That integration process must therefore be backed up by some strong motivations, whatever they are philosophical, political, economical or whatever else.

I have been living in different countries before landing here. My opinion is that you are too "liberal" - in the sense of being too kind. Immigation policies should be set for strengthening the hosting country. And not for disrupting it !

jp

I like you., :), and we agree.

[Haggis]

The only non-English speakers who can be employed are those at companies who happen to have a bilingual crew boss.

First of all the law should be; "No speaky Engish, no job." End of problem.

What if someone on the crew speaks Russian, then would everyone need to learn Russian?

[Go Mifuni]

Speaking of this country going down the *****er; this month the Supreme Court is meeting to decide on the meaning of the 2nd amendment for the first time in 68 years. Montana has declared they will secede (the documentation is already made out and waiting for signatures) if the court rules against private citizens rights to keep and bear arms.
See you in Montana. http://www.rangerpowersports.com/forum/images/smilies/burnout.gif

[Haggis]

Speaking of this country going down the *****er; this month the Supreme Court is meeting to decide on the meaning of the 2nd amendment for the first time in 68 years. Montana has declared they will cecede (the documentation is already made out and waiting for signatures) if the court rules against private citizens rights to keep and bear arms.
See you in Montana. http://www.rangerpowersports.com/forum/images/smilies/burnout.gif

"I'm dreaming of a home, where the buffalo roam and the skies are not cloudy all day."

I'll be right behind you.

[sailsmen]

Where are you getting this from;
"and since contracted companies are employees when they work for ODF, that includes their contracts."

This makes no-sense and goes againest common practise.

If they were employees they would be recieving all the benefits, retirement, ect. They wouldn't be contracted.

I don't need to prove anyone has been fired anymore than you need to prove no one has.

The whole issue is the very memo states must be bilingual and there is no profic. test for the non-english language which points out the whole safety issue is a fallacy.

You are correct due to this bilingual must requirement, i.e. to speak a language other than english, current supervisors who do not will be fired and prospective applicants who do not will not be hired.

It's very simple all the ODF needs to do is drop the must be bilingual requirement. How difficult is that to understand?

Even simpler in the interest of safety require everyone to be prof. in ENGLISH.

Thank you for telling me to learn about the world out of my town. It made me do some introspection.

I am sharing it with you to encourage you to do the same in the hope that you will become aware of your own prejudices.

While I was growing up in New Orleans many consider it to be closer to a European city than a US city. As a child I remember family members speaking a language other than English. My great grandfather was born in a non-english speaking country. My grandmother was sent home the first day of school because she could not speak English. My cousins occasionally come to visit from a non-english speaking country.

My family’s business makes non-english products with non-english names. Many a legal immigrant has worked there coming from non-english speaking countries, some have worked their way up to making over $75,000 per year.

For two years I rented part of my home to a Japanese family of 5 who literally just came off the plane and who spoke very little English. My next door neighbor for 6 years was from Japan.

The school I attended in NYC over 2/3 of my classmates were from non-english speaking countries. I have lived in London and Paris.

I have done large amounts of business, ( completely unrelated to my family’s business ), with non-english speaking companies working directly for their headquarters located in non-english speaking countries. One company has English as the written word and French as the spoken word.

Three weeks ago I was speaking with a client who’s first language is Cajun and he speaks translated English, which requires me to translate what he says. Last week a Brazilian friend, who I looked after while he lived here for two years, called from Rio to let me know he is coming in town to visit. It was the first time we had spoken in 20 years.

Two weeks ago I had lunch with a friend who’s first language was Spanish and who’s father fought in the Spanish Civil War.

This week I am having lunch with a client whose mother’s first language was Hungarian. She fled the communists with her family, sadly all did not make it out alive.

I have many family, friends and clients who speak English with a heavy accent. Many speak translated English as in they are substituting their first language words with English words requiring me to translate into the words we use.

The important thing is they all speak English while in the US outside of their home.

[Egon Spengler]

Being a firefighter myself, that pisses me off royally... The older guys on my department know alot and I have total respect for them and their knowledge... you are going to throw all these knowledgeable guys out just because they don't speak english? They say it is for safety, but they will replace a man of command with a guy who can speak english, but probably doesn't have the knowledge to keep those men safe. I am getting more and more disgusted everyday. This is the wrong thing to do... trust me, you don't want to piss off firefighters, and this is the best way TO piss off firefighters

[duhtroll]

No, because unless the supervisor is a moron, the person speaking Russian doesn't have a English skills necessary to do the job. If the crew boss spoke Russian, they could hire him.

(The same rule applies to every other language, before you go there.)


First of all the law should be; "No speaky Engish, no job." End of problem.

What if someone on the crew speaks Russian, then would everyone need to learn Russian?

[Haggis]

No, because unless the supervisor is a moron, the person speaking Russian doesn't have a English skills necessary to do the job. If the crew boss spoke Russian, they could hire him.

(The same rule applies to every other language, before you go there.)

Ok I agree with you now, but let's turn this around.

"No, because unless the supervisor is a moron, the person speaking Spanish doesn't have the English skills necessary to do the job. If the crew boss spoke Spanish, they could hire him."

[duhtroll]

Where are you getting this from;
"and since contracted companies are employees when they work for ODF, that includes their contracts."

This makes no-sense and goes againest common practise.

If they were employees they would be recieving all the benefits, retirement, ect. They wouldn't be contracted.

It depends upon the contract, but salaried employees would normally receive benefits while contracted employees would normally not.

If you are a contracted worker for someone, you work for them. You follow their rules and do exactly as they say, or you won't work for them for long.


I don't need to prove anyone has been fired anymore than you need to prove no one has.

I don't need to prove it. ODF has stated it. If there is a flaw there, someone would be suing them.

I'm not the one b*tching about the situation at hand. You're complaining about someone being fired and I asked you "Who? Where?"

You can't provide that information. If it were true and that important, Bill O' Reilly would be interviewing the guy and you know it.

And *IF* someone has been fired, it's because their supervisor is an idiot and didn't think that maybe his workers might want to be able to communicate.

All this regulation does is:

1) Deters companies from hiring non-English speaking workers, because then the company has to deal with speaking with them.

2) Gives companies with bilingual workers an opportunity to employ people who don't speak English, in order to accommodate the large number of Spanish-speaking applicants and the need for more workers.

I know that's not the best option. Duh! The best option is to hire people that speak English. NO ONE IS DEBATING THAT

This allows people to deal with workers who are there and needed. Again, you have a bunch of guys who want to put out a fire. Are you going to tell the homeowners that they could have helped but you wouldn't let them because they didn't speak English?

You guys (as FOX News has done) have turned this into an attack on your citizenship, when it has absolutely nothing to do with trying to circumvent the use of English as the official language of firefighting.

For the last friggin' time:

NO ONE HAS TO HIRE ANYONE WHO DOESN'T SPEAK ENGLISH, and NO ONE WHO DOESN'T SPEAK SPANISH NEEDS TO BE FIRED.

If a company hires people who don't speak English without understanding the difficulty involved with that decision, they are stupid.

THAT is the ONLY way someone could be fired by use of this regulation -- if the supervisor is dumb enough to first hire those who can't speak English, and then ignore all seniority in the company to fire the crew boss.


The whole issue is the very memo states must be bilingual

That's NOT what it says. It says "If YOU hire non-English speakers, YOU have to communicate with them."

NO ONE has to be bilingual unless YOU GO OUT OF YOUR WAY TO CREATE A BILINGUAL SITUATION.

In other words, "If you don't want to put up with this regulation, DON'T FRIGGIN' HIRE NON-ENGLISH SPEAKERS!"

Where's that shovel?

[duhtroll]

Will you please read the thread before posting? This has been said already...


Ok I agree with you now, but let's turn this around.

"No, because unless the supervisor is a moron, the person speaking Spanish doesn't have the English skills necessary to do the job. If the crew boss spoke Spanish, they could hire him."

[sailsmen]

Being a firefighter myself, that pisses me off royally... The older guys on my department know alot and I have total respect for them and their knowledge... you are going to throw all these knowledgeable guys out just because they don't speak english? They say it is for safety, but they will replace a man of command with a guy who can speak english, but probably doesn't have the knowledge to keep those men safe. I am getting more and more disgusted everyday. This is the wrong thing to do... trust me, you don't want to piss off firefighters, and this is the best way TO piss off firefighters

If they don't speak english how are they communicating with people who do speak english?

How were they trained to be firefighters?

How do they communicate with english speaking firemen from other stations or their own crew?

How do they read the instrcutions on how to operate the equipment?

How do they communicate with LEO or EMT?

How do they read the MSD sheets?

How do they communicate with the home and business owners?

Perhaps we need to go back to the firemarks on houses, E for english speaking firemen and S for spanish speaking firemen.

Then we will need to do it for our cars, our work place, restaurants, merchants and so forth. Medical ID bracelets for E for english hospitals and english doctors. s for spanish hospitals and s for spnish doctors. E for english schools and S for spanish schools. E for english courts and S for spanish courts.

What about our currency? Why is it in english? We should have pesos as well.

But wait what about the Japanese, Brazilians, Cajuns and French? Why should they be forced to learn english or spanish?

Better yet we will make very other person a translator.:D

This is why we need a US Constitutional amendmen stating english is the official language.

ps If those firemen are as good as you say they are I am certain if they want to they can learn ENGLISH!

[duhtroll]

And again we have the paranoia. If you notice, the memo also says they have been doing the job very well with people who don't speak English for something like 50-60 years.

That doesn't mean being bilingual is REQUIRED by anyone. It means that's who showed up to put out the fires and they dealt with it. In fact, the memo also says that English IS THE OFFICIAL LANGUAGE OF WOODLAND FIREFIGHTING.

If you are so worried about those Spanish-speaking guys taking jobs from English-speaking workers, get off your a$$ and suit up.



If they don't speak english how are they communicating with people who do speak english?

How were they trained to be firefighters?

How do they communicate with english speaking firemen from other stations or their own crew?

How do they read the instrcutions on how to operate the equipment?

How do they communicate with LEO or EMT?

How do they read the MSD sheets?

How do they communicate with the home and business owners?

Perhaps we need to go back to the firemarks on houses, E for english speaking firemen and S for spanish speaking firemen.

Then we will need to do it for our cars, our work place, restaurants, merchants and so forth. Medical ID bracelets for E for english hospitals and english doctors. s for spanish hospitals and s for spnish doctors. E for english schools and S for spanish schools. E for english courts and S for spanish courts.

What about our currency? Why is it in english? We should have pesos as well.

But wait what about the Japanese, Brazilians, Cajuns and French? Why should they be forced to learn english or spanish?

Better yet we will make very other person a translator.:D

This is why we need a US Constitutional amendmen stating english is the official language.

ps If those firemen are as good as you say they are I am certain if they want to they can learn ENGLISH!

[sailsmen]

You ignore the word employee until I point it out and then you make up that these contracted workers are employees when they clearly are not. You then ignore the word must.

Try doing work for the gov't or anyone while ignoring their "must" and see what happens. You will be fired.

If it's truly about safety and communication than why isn't there a prof test in the non-english language of the crews?

[Haggis]

Will you please read the thread before posting? This has been said already...

And as I stated I agree, just wanted to make sure we are on the same sheet of paper.

[BAD MERC]

What happens in you country is non sense. It also happens up north where I currently live.

I think that one of the first requirement setting the condition for a candidate to immigrate is a minimum proficiency in the hosting country language. And not only for economical and social reasons. Besides, there should be some process during which the immigrant would integrate the values of the welcoming country. It should not be that hard, supposing that the immigrant is coming for a "better" life - otherwise he should/would stay home . That integration process must therefore be backed up by some strong motivations, whatever they are philosophical, political, economical or whatever else.

I have been living in different countries before landing here. My opinion is that you are too "liberal" - in the sense of being too kind. Immigration policies should be set for strengthening the hosting country. And not for disrupting it !

jp


That was the most logical explanation I have ever seen. Drinks are on me if you're ever here. But make in Molson XXX.

[sailsmen]

Why do you keep twisting things?

"Although firefighting companies have existed for decades, the industry has expanded rapidly in recent years. This has been in response to a series of large fires, to reductions in public-agency firefighting resources and the downsizing of the forest products industry workforce.

The expansion has not been without growing pains. While many contractors have consistently performed well, others have had problems including poor crew supervision, language barriers, unqualified personnel, equipment deficiencies, alcohol and drug use, and inadequate incident performance."

"If you are so worried about those Spanish-speaking guys taking jobs from English-speaking workers, get off your a$$ and suit up."

I HAVE;
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showcase/files/6/7/2/All122905218_682025.jpg

[duhtroll]

You ignore the word employee until I point it out and then you make up that these contracted workers are employees when they clearly are not. You then ignore the word must.

Try doing work for the gov't or anyone while ignoring their "must" and see what happens. You will be fired.

If it's truly about safety and communication than why isn't there a prof test in the non-english language of the crews?

Uh, teachers are state employees and I have been bargaining their contracts for 12 years. I know that game. We contract stuff all the time -- doesn't mean the contracted employees are on a blank slate for rules.

I'm not ignoring the word "MUST" at all. YOU are placing it where it doesn't belong.

The word "must" only comes into play if the company chooses to hire people who don't speak English. If they hire only English speakers, there is no "must" for bilingual workers.

You are saying that "must" appears in every situation, and you are wrong.

As for safety --

The reason someone needs to be able to speak Spanish (if the company decides to hire them in the first place, which is again their CHOICE) is so that when people yell "Pull back!" they don't all die because they don't understand.

I'd call that a safety regulation.

You apparently think that challenges your right to be an American or other such nonsense.

[duhtroll]

I'm not - read further than the first couple paragraphs.

Hispanic and Native American contract crews have operated in the west with bilingual leadership since the 1960s.

And what does your photo prove? You've been near a fire? So have I.

You ever worked woodland firefighting? If you're so worried about these non-English speaking invaders of our country, go out and do something about it. Quit whining on an internet forum about it. Some of us are perfectly OK with letting people save lives and property regardless of what language they happen to speak. It means I don't have to do it.


Why do you keep twisting things?

[sailsmen]

Very simple I am againest what the video states that a Gov't entiety, in this case Oregon State, has "must be bilingual or multilingual".

I am for a US Constitutional amendment making English the official language. Why? So that we can effectively communicate and be one Nation.

[sailsmen]

......
And what does your photo prove? You've been near a fire? So have I....



The photo was in repsone to "get off your a$$ and suit up."

I have gotten off my "a$$" and put out a fire saving the lives of several families.

I don't care what language they speak so long as they are prof enough in english to perform their job safely and again a Gov't entiety, in this case Oregon State,doesn't have a must be"bilingual or multilingual".

At considerable risk to myself I helped a number of people as a result of Katrina.

[duhtroll]

And you are incorrect, because that is not what Oregon State regulations say.

The only requirement for a bilingual boss is when people ELECT to bring in non-English speaking workers. You have refused to acknowledge that part at least 5 times now, because to do so would mean admitting you are incorrect about the requirement.

It is very simple to understand. No one needs bilingual bosses if you don't have Spanish speaking workers. You apparently cannot understand that no matter how it is explained.

As far as making English official, we agree. However, the Oregon.gov website ALSO states that English *IS* the official language of woodland firefighting, something else you conveniently ignore.


Very simple I am againest what the video states that a Gov't entiety, in this case Oregon State, has "must be bilingual or multilingual".

[duhtroll]

I don't care what language they speak so long as they are prof enough in english to perform their job safely and again a Gov't entiety, in this case Oregon State,doesn't have a must be"bilingual or multilingual".


No government entity in this discussion requires any language be spoken other than English. It's on their site and it's been repeated here multiple times.

Because you choose to believe there is a requirement, it doesn't make it true.

Sorry.

[sailsmen]

"If you're so worried about these non-English speaking invaders of our country, go out and do something about it. Quit whining on an internet forum about it."

I am.

From: <constituent_reply@landrieu.sen ate.gov> Save Address Reminder

To: <sailsmen@.>
Subject: Correspondence from Senator Landrieu
Date: Friday, August 10, 2007 2:09:30 PM [View Source]








August 10, 2007







, Louisiana 70433



Dear Mr. S:



Thank you for contacting me to express your concern about English becoming the official language of our country. I appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts and insight on this issue with me.



I believe that everyone should learn to speak English, either as a first or second language. In a competitive society such as ours, people who do not will find it extremely difficult to communicate well with others, and will often find themselves locked out of full participation in our economy. That is why I support a requirement that immigrants seeking citizenship in the U.S. must learn English in order to be eligible. I also voted in favor of an amendment to the Immigration Reform Act that designates English as the national language of the United States.



Having been raised in Louisiana, where French is still widely spoken throughout much of Acadiana, I understand that diversity is one of our nation’s great strengths. Our state, perhaps more than any other in the Union, demonstrates how non-traditional cultures can blend with American freedom and principles to produce something unique and admired throughout the world. Louisiana simply could not be the special place it is without the enriching influences of the cultures that make up our “melting pot” society.



I appreciate the opportunity to hear from you about this important matter, and I hope you will continue to contact me on issues of mutual concern. I agree with you that the English language is among our nation’s most important institutions, which is why I am proud to have supported its designation as the national language and a requirement that immigrants learn English in order to become citizens.

Please feel free to also visit my website at http://www.landrieu.senate.gov for more information on legislative affairs.



With kindest regards, I am



Sincerely,

Mary L. Landrieu

United States Senator

MLL:chr

All I am asking is for the ODF to remove the following "words" from their "memo";
"must be bilingual or multilingual".

[duhtroll]

And if the Senator is going to read the site, she'll understand what I have been saying this entire time, laugh silently to herself, then trash the email you sent as it has no substance.


"If you're so worried about these non-English speaking invaders of our country, go out and do something about it. Quit whining on an internet forum about it."

I am.

From: <constituent_reply@landrieu.sen ate.gov> Save Address Reminder

To: <sailsmen@.>
Subject: Correspondence from Senator Landrieu
Date: Friday, August 10, 2007 2:09:30 PM [View Source]








August 10, 2007







, Louisiana 70433



Dear Mr. S:



Thank you for contacting me to express your concern about English becoming the official language of our country. I appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts and insight on this issue with me.



I believe that everyone should learn to speak English, either as a first or second language. In a competitive society such as ours, people who do not will find it extremely difficult to communicate well with others, and will often find themselves locked out of full participation in our economy. That is why I support a requirement that immigrants seeking citizenship in the U.S. must learn English in order to be eligible. I also voted in favor of an amendment to the Immigration Reform Act that designates English as the national language of the United States.



Having been raised in Louisiana, where French is still widely spoken throughout much of Acadiana, I understand that diversity is one of our nation’s great strengths. Our state, perhaps more than any other in the Union, demonstrates how non-traditional cultures can blend with American freedom and principles to produce something unique and admired throughout the world. Louisiana simply could not be the special place it is without the enriching influences of the cultures that make up our “melting pot” society.



I appreciate the opportunity to hear from you about this important matter, and I hope you will continue to contact me on issues of mutual concern. I agree with you that the English language is among our nation’s most important institutions, which is why I am proud to have supported its designation as the national language and a requirement that immigrants learn English in order to become citizens.

Please feel free to also visit my website at http://www.landrieu.senate.gov for more information on legislative affairs.



With kindest regards, I am



Sincerely,

Mary L. Landrieu

United States Senator

MLL:chr

All I am asking is for the ODF to remove the following "words" from their "memo";
"must be bilingual or multilingual".

[sailsmen]

If you truely beleive everything you have said including " it has no substance" than why can't the ODF delete the "words" "must be bilingual or multilingual"?

That cures most of the objection.

Afterall you have stated it is not a requirement!

[Blk Mamba]

Why don't you two get married, God you're p!ssing me off.

[sailsmen]

I am glad you are pissed off. Look around, 20% of the population of Mexico is in the US illegally.

The Mexican gov't hands out brouchures on how to break into the US. Once here the Mexican gov't issues fake id's to facilitate the illegal Mexicans working here.

Now we have gov't requirements favoring people speaking spanish to the detriment of those who do not.

To recieve med services or register for school in many locals you are required to provide id and for med services proof of income unless you are an illegal alien.

More and more our gov't is providing illegal aliens with preferred treatment.

[Blk Mamba]

I am glad you are pissed off. Look around, 20% of the population of Mexico is in the US illegally.

The Mexican gov't hands out brouchures on how to break into the US. Once here the Mexican gov't issues fake id's to facilitate the illegal Mexicans working here.

Now we have gov't requirements favoring people speaking spanish to the detriment of those who do not.

To recieve med services or register for school in many locals you are required to provide id and for med services proof of income unless you are an illegal alien.

More and more our gov't is providing illegal aliens with preferred treatment.

I think you should have read my post #15 first.

[MM2004]

Politics, Religion..

Debates never seem to end.

Play nice..

Mike.

[BAD MERC]

I am glad you are pissed off. Look around, 20% of the population of Mexico is in the US illegally.

The Mexican gov't hands out brouchures on how to break into the US. Once here the Mexican gov't issues fake id's to facilitate the illegal Mexicans working here.

Now we have gov't requirements favoring people speaking spanish to the detriment of those who do not.

To recieve med services or register for school in many locals you are required to provide id and for med services proof of income unless you are an illegal alien.

More and more our gov't is providing illegal aliens with preferred treatment.


Actually, 38,000,000 mexicans are here ILLEGALLY. Yep, they walked right across the border with their diseases, flags, customs, weapons, criminal records, children and poverty. By the way, that is MORE than the population of Canada and 9 times the population of Ireland. I am sure we have nothing to worry about. I didn't mean to create such a fight with the thread. Yep, let's just drop the subject, it will go away eventually.

[duhtroll]

Because then they can hire people who don't speak English and have no way to communicate with them, which is a safety hazard.

How many times do I have to explain this? We're going on a dozen now.

For someone who claimed his English was better than mine, you're making yourself look like you need a trip back to school. Do you need a translator?

One of those workers who doesn't speak any English would have understood this situation by now.


If you truely beleive everything you have said including " it has no substance" than why can't the ODF delete the "words" "must be bilingual or multilingual"?

That cures most of the objection.

Afterall you have stated it is not a requirement!

[RaceLegend79]

Please forgive the "Bible thumper", but the reason our great nation is falling and will continue to do so is completely out of our hands and has been every since we stopped doing what our fore-fathers did and believe, trust, and do as Christ commands. Things are set in motion for the finale and we are all spectators to the events God is playing out for us. Soon all will end and this pettiness we have on this miserable little rock will end and most will be in a much better and happier place. Again, forgive me if I offend, but the end is coming, just slower than I would like. Because things will get a lot worse and I hope I am not here to see it.

[RaceLegend79]

If it's not misleading, then why are we having this conversation?

One single word could have solved the problem. Instead of "firefighters" he could have said "contracted firefighters." If that is what he meant, which is in doubt, that would have made it clear. But he didn't. It would not have even added one full second to the "sound byte" journalistic info-tainment episode that FN is known for. (and you wonder why they are labeled as biased?)

Unfortunately FOX News "editors" are about as unbiased as JJ Jameson.



The source I posted shows NO ONE HAS BEN FIRED for any language requirement. You choose to ignore that because you can't let it go.

The only "requirement" is for private companies (i.e. NOT government entities) when they choose to hire non-English speaking workers. They have a provision that allows them to do so provided they can communicate.

You know, choose. Meaning it's NOT REQUIRED that they hire them AT ALL. If they WANT to and have a crew boss who can speak both English and Spanish, they have that option.

I'm still waiting for either the name of the company doing the firing or the person(s) being fired. Seems that would be important to the story, or do you just take FOX News anchor guy's word for it? :laugh:

You'd rather restrict the jobs to only those who speak English. What if there aren't enough firefighters? (which, BTW was the first sentence of the video you are touting as iron-clad truth)

Given the two choices -- waiting for people who speak English and losing lives and resources as a result of the delay, or getting the job done right away, I'll take the latter.

Given your scenario -- MY house will be safe, because I won't be so stupid as to tell people I'd rather be saved by someone who only speaks English. Also, I speak enough Spanish necessary to be safe in such a situation.

(Oh, and band directors often ARE multilingual, at least to the point of knowing key words and phrases. You know, many of the people who wrote music did so in a language other than English...) It's called learning about the world outside your own hometown. Try it sometime.


The point is, what if the people who came to save you spoke German, French, Itailian, Japanese, Chinese, or even Arabic. I mentioned these, because the high school I went to had a group of at least 40 kids per language had that as their native tounge and spoke English phonetically better than I did. Do you know all those languages fluently as well? If not then now maybe you understand his point.

[RaceLegend79]

Actually, 38,000,000 mexicans are here ILLEGALLY. Yep, they walked right across the border with their diseases, flags, customs, weapons, criminal records, children and poverty. By the way, that is MORE than the population of Canada and 9 times the population of Ireland. I am sure we have nothing to worry about. I didn't mean to create such a fight with the thread. Yep, let's just drop the subject, it will go away eventually.




Now that funny right there, I dont care who you are! :lol:

[Aren Jay]

Think how many jobs you could create for the unemployed black, white and legal people in the USA if you were to go and round up the 38,000,000 illegals and send them packing back home. Plus 38,000,000 more jobs opening up etc...

Plus you could say that all those born in the USA but not to legal parents are not legal either. As they are not officially there and send them home to Mexico.

Then take those who rounded up the Illegals to build and man the new 50 foot concrete 3000miles wall.

Fix the unemployment problems of all the cities, clean up the getto's and get your economy back on the road to success once again.

Yes there are probably 1000+ illegal Canadians working in the USA, and you can send them home too.

It would be a great make work project and shouldn't take more than 25 years to clean up your country.

[MM2004]

That's all she wrote.

Mike.