Superdelegates?

[Joe Walsh]

Let me start this by saying that I don't usually like, participate in, and certainly don't start political threads......
But I have to voice my opinion on the Democratic party's 'Superdelegates'.

What the H*LL is this B*LL ***** Superdelegate??

If I were a Democrat, I would be LIVID with the fact that a Superdelegate can override and CHANGE my vote!
Why do the upper eschelon Democrats always feel that THEY know what is better than the voting public!???
I realize that many, many delegates follow the wishes of their voting constituents..
but just the fact that superdelegates exist and CAN change from the original candidate that they had pledged to vote for is astonishing.

I don't want to start a flame - political war here....I just want to hear from fellow site members who are Democrats how they feel about the Superdelegates.
Can we discuss this in a rationale manner?


BTW: I'm no fan of local Baltimore raised Nancy Pelosi, but I find it interesting that she has been attacked by Hillary supporters for stating the obvious:
"That all superdelegates should vote as the constituents that they represent had voted."

[offroadking208]

Hey, im no democrat, but i totally agree with you. the delegates should vote as the people voted, isn't their job to represent the people?

[Blk Mamba]

Well, I see no difference in this then in the electoral college, they vote how they want, regardless of the popular vote, granted it is normally as the voting public wishes, but there is nothing stating that it has to be that way. That makes no difference anyway, a Democrat has won the last two national elections, and there is a Republican Pres., I don't want to start a big fight, but it has been proven to my satisfaction.

[sailsmen]

There is a huge difference with the Electorial College. We are a Representative Republic not a Mob Rule.

The Founding Fathers fought a war againest a distant King over the Colonies. The Founding Fathers knew there was a vast frontier that was sparsely populated.

The Founding Fathers knew that for a long period of time the population would be concentrated in the Colonies.

The Founding Fathers did not want to put future territories in the same position they were in that caused the revolution. A distant King ruling over them, hence the Electorial College which gave states control over their electorial vote allowing for a greater influence by states with low populations
than by popular vote alone.

For example had the King of England been elected by popular vote and extended the same right to the Colonists the out come would not have changed.

It's similar to the Senate every state gets 2. Every state gets a least one electorial vote for President.

[Leadfoot281]

Joe, do yourself a big favor; Turn the TV off. Stop reading newspapers too.

I did this after McCain got the nomination and I haven't been happier. Heck, I deleted every news channel off my satelite box. Han Solo could land the Millenium Falcon in Time Square and I wouldn't know about it.

One person is going to win this election, yet the entire country is going to lose.


Trash, the electoral college states it has to be this way. It's the "law of the land" right now. Don't like it? Then for some one that wants to change it. May I remind you that Bill Clinton NEVER ONCE, in two elections, got more than 50% of the vote.

[knine]

One person is going to win this election, yet the entire country is going to lose.


OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH , I have to go change my signature. Thanks Leadfoot.

[sailsmen]

Neither did Linclon.

It's % that Senator Clinton advocated elimination of the Electorial College as a siting Senator. The same logic she advocated would also apply to the Senate eliminating her position.

An intersting quote from a bumper sticker;

"I think therefore I am a Republican!"

[Aren Jay]

hahaha your voting system is screwy.

You should adopt the Canadian system, no hanging chads, no miss marked or not marked ballots.

Adopt the pinecone and birch bark system.

[Rocknthehawk]

Joe, do yourself a big favor; Turn the TV off. Stop reading newspapers too.

I did this after McCain got the nomination and I haven't been happier. Heck, I deleted every news channel off my satelite box. Han Solo could land the Millenium Falcon in Time Square and I wouldn't know about it.

One person is going to win this election, yet the entire country is going to lose.


Trash, the electoral college states it has to be this way. It's the "law of the land" right now. Don't like it? Then for some one that wants to change it. May I remind you that Bill Clinton NEVER ONCE, in two elections, got more than 50% of the vote.

Very well said. It is the first time i am of legal age to cast my vote for the presidential election....and i will not be doing so.

I don't complain about politics, because i do not participate. It's the same as gas. don't complain that prices are high, if you continue to use it and contribute to the problem.

I don't like McCain, Clinton, Or Obama.

It's a Lose-Lose situation for us all. It saddens me to know our country will be further hurt by one of these canidates taking control of the war in iraq, and the war on terrorism.

[Blk Mamba]

# 1, The electoral college, and "superdelegate's", are the same, in that the electoral's are charged with doing what is best for the country, and the delegates are charged with doing what is best for the party.
# 2, The electoral college was founded to get the election results to the capital in due haste.
# 3,The revolution was caused by improper representation, (little, or none), and exorbident taxation.

[sailsmen]

"Superdelegate" is an informal term for some of the delegates to the Democratic National Convention, the quadrennial convention of the United States Democratic Party.

Unlike most convention delegates, the superdelegates are not selected based on the party primary primaries and caucuses in each U.S. state. Instead, the superdelegates are seated automatically, based solely on their status as current or former elected officeholders and party officials. They are free to support any candidate for the nomination.
The Democratic Party rules do not use the term "superdelegate". The formal designation (in Rule 9.A) is "unpledged party leader and elected official delegates".[1] In addition to these unpledged "PLEO" delegates, the state parties choose other unpledged delegates (Rule 9.B) and pledged PLEO delegates (Rule 9.C).[1] This article discusses only the unpledged PLEO delegates.

The Republican Party also seats some party officials as delegates without regard to primary or caucus results, but the term "superdelegate" is most commonly applied only in the Democratic Party.

At the 2008 Democratic National Convention the superdelegates will make up approximately one-fifth of the total number of delegates. The unforeseen and unprecedented closeness of the race between the leading contenders Hillary Rodham Clinton and Barack Obama following Super Tuesday has focused attention on the potential role of the superdelegates in selecting the Democratic nominee, inasmuch as in the aggregate they could come to be kingmakers to a degree not seen in previous election cycles. [2] Such an outcome would result in the first brokered convention since 1952."
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Superdelegates _in_the_2008_presidential_prim aries

"The founders of the nation devised the Electoral College system as part of their plan to share power between the States and the national government. Under the Federal system adopted in the U.S. Constitution, the nation-wide popular vote has no legal significance. As a result, it is possible that the electoral votes awarded on the basis of State elections could produce a different result than the nation-wide popular vote. Nevertheless, the individual citizen's vote is important to the outcome of each State election."

27 states "Electors in these States are bound by State Law or by pledges to cast their vote for a specific candidate.."
http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/electoral-college/faq.html#history

[Haggis]

Joe, it is just Big Brother telling you they know what is best for you whether you agree or not.

[Go Mifuni]

Very well said. It is the first time i am of legal age to cast my vote for the presidential election....and i will not be doing so.



I don't like McCain, Clinton, Or Obama.

It's a Lose-Lose situation for us all. It saddens me to know our country will be further hurt by one of these canidates taking control of the war in iraq, and the war on terrorism.

This is GoMifuni's wife, and I just have to step in here to say that McCain is NOT the Republican nominee YET. Ron Paul is still in the running.

It's crazy how we let the "elite" control who we get to vote for. All those who are considering not voting, PLEASE check out Ron Paul. Google him, check him out on YouTube. My mother who is a long time, liberal Democrat is even voting for him. He stands up for what's right, for the Constitution, and is a generally honest guy. (He hasn't changed his platform in 20 years just for popularity's sake)

Even better, check out a vote quiz to see who your personal beliefs align with. (Just make sure they are not skewed like the voting machines are)

Here are a few quizzes, you can find tons online. The first I think is most thorough.
http://www.wqad.com/Global/link.asp?L=259460
http://www.vajoe.com/candidate_calculator.html

It is not too late to take our country back, but we all have to begin to stand up for what we believe in and not be sheeple. Just because the mainstream media says we have three choices DOES NOT mean that's the case.

[Paul T. Casey]

This is GoMifuni's wife, and I just have to step in here to say that McCain is NOT the Republican nominee YET. Ron Paul is still in the running.

Due to the Fact that the Rebulican party, for God only knows why, will use the delegate count as determined by the voters in the primaries, I'm afraid it's all but official. Sen. McCain has more than enough delegates to carry a first round nomination. Should something unforeseen arise, each candidate still controls the delegates assigned to them by the voters (why do they do it that way). In this case, the delegates assigned to McCain (who knows why these guys let the voters choose) will be freed to align themselves with the candidate of their choice. Because of this possibility, most of the original candidates have merely suspended their campaigns, not withdrawn.

[Go Mifuni]

Due to the Fact that the Rebulican party, for God only knows why, will use the delegate count as determined by the voters in the primaries, I'm afraid it's all but official. Sen. McCain has more than enough delegates to carry a first round nomination. Should something unforeseen arise, each candidate still controls the delegates assigned to them by the voters (why do they do it that way). In this case, the delegates assigned to McCain (who knows why these guys let the voters choose) will be freed to align themselves with the candidate of their choice. Because of this possibility, most of the original candidates have merely suspended their campaigns, not withdrawn.

Yes, but some of those delegates may surprise you and go against what they're mandated to do. Ron Paul has told people not to do it but some of his supporters are becoming delegates and telling the Republicans they're for McCain.

[Glenn]

No matter, Superman Al Gore will rescue the Democrat Party. All he needs is to pull 100 super delegates to freeze the nomination and then he will cut a deal with Obama for VP if he throws his delegates to him for President. This is the only solution for the Democrat Party not to implode and disappear as a political party in the US. So folks it will be Gore vs McCain and McCain will win.

Glenn :)

[ParkRanger]

hence the Electorial College which gave states control over their electorial vote allowing for a greater influence by states with low populations
than by popular vote alone.


This is not correct.
The electoral college was set up to protect the election system from the populace. I believe the phrase they used was, "Tyranny of the masses is still tyranny."
They were worried that knuckleheads would get together and vote in a knucklehead. It was another level in our system of checks and balances.

[ParkRanger]

"I think therefore I am a Republican!"

Believe the correct word is 'stink'

[duhtroll]

I would like the opportunity to elect a knucklehead as long as he or she isn't owned by a corporation or special interest group. Right now to be President of this country, you have to be wealthy.

See the end of this clip for how I would like to see the President elected.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3_EwUERW1U

I think we'd have better luck that way.


This is not correct.
The electoral college was set up to protect the election system from the populace. I believe the phrase they used was, "Tyranny of the masses is still tyranny."
They were worried that knuckleheads would get together and vote in a knucklehead. It was another level in our system of checks and balances.

[sailsmen]

Sailsmen quote ".......
The Founding Fathers did not want to put future territories in the same position they were in that caused the revolution. A distant King ruling over them, hence the Electorial College which gave states control over their electorial vote allowing for a greater influence by states with low populations
than by popular vote alone...."



This is not correct.
The electoral college was set up to protect the election system from the populace. I believe the phrase they used was, "Tyranny of the masses is still tyranny."
They were worried that knuckleheads would get together and vote in a knucklehead. It was another level in our system of checks and balances.

This quote is from the National Archives "Originally Posted by sailsmen
"The founders of the nation devised the Electoral College system as part of their plan to share power between the States and the national government. Under the Federal system adopted in the U.S. Constitution, the nation-wide popular vote has no legal significance. As a result, it is possible that the electoral votes awarded on the basis of State elections could produce a different result than the nation-wide popular vote. Nevertheless, the individual citizen's vote is important to the outcome of each State election."



William C. Kimberling, Deputy Director
FEC Office of Election Administration
"In order to appreciate the reasons for the Electoral College, it is
essential to understand its historical context and the problem that the
Founding Fathers were trying to solve. They faced the difficult question of
how to elect a president in a nation that:
• was composed of thirteen large and small States jealous of their own
rights and powers and suspicious of any central national government
• contained only 4,000,000 people spread up and down a thousand miles of
Atlantic seaboard barely connected by transportation or communication
(so that national campaigns were impractical even if they had been
thought desirable)
• believed, under the influence of such British political thinkers as Henry
St John Bolingbroke, that political parties were mischievous if not
downright evil, and
• felt that gentlemen should not campaign for public office (The saying
was "The office should seek the man, the man should not seek the
office.").
How, then, to choose a president without political parties, without
national campaigns, and without upsetting the carefully designed balance
between the presidency and the Congress on one hand and between the
States and the federal government on the other?"
http://www.fec.gov/pdf/eleccoll.pdf

Our form of government as framed by the Constitution is a Representative Republic, i.e. to prevent mob rule.

The reason Congressmen cannot be electors is, "They have not made the appointment of the president to depend on any preexisting bodies of men who might be tampered with before hand to prostitute their votes..." Excluded ".. all those.... who might be suspected of too great devotion to the president....". 68: Hamliton

[sailsmen]

Another interesting bumper sticker;
"Vote for Monica's boyfriends wife"

[Haggis]

Another interesting bumper sticker;
"Vote for Monica's boyfriends wife"

Hickory, dickory, dock the mistress or the wife?

[Aren Jay]

Hilary Clinton just dropped out.

It is on the news right now.

Something about a possible Vice Pres for Obama (sp).

[ParkRanger]

"The framers’ uncertainty was generated by disagreement over the role of the people, the Congress, and the states in the political process. Many delegates to the convention, including Virginia’s James Madison, favored popular election of the president. But others, such as Massachusetts’s Elbridge Gerry, feared the “ignorance of the people.” Virginia’s George Mason thought that to refer the choice of president to the people would be to “refer a trial of colors to a blind man.”

[SC Cheesehead]

Hilary Clinton just dropped out.

It is on the news right now.

Something about a possible Vice Pres for Obama (sp).

Yeah, we should be so lucky.

APRIL FOOL!:)

SCCH

[Eric-Blk2004]

I just think that a two party system is not a choice. You are either with us or against us.

Do I believe in the war on terror? No, I believe in a war to fight for American lifestyle. We went into Iraq to ensure we could continue to have the luxurious life we all enjoy. Everyone on this site has a V8 monster that drinks the dinosaurs like we drink down beer. If we did not have oil and the means to obtain it where the hell would we put all these cars?

The war is a war of wants and not needs, but I still support it. We have not found a viable solution to oil, so we must fight for our right to have it. And if you dont think its about oil - where else would we get it? Exxon and company do not want to tap into their reserves, Brazil and south America are not dealing with us on a fair exchange. Neither are the Sudi's.

And thanks to hippie's we can not drill our own oceans for oil. So we must fight for it.

This election will just hurt the middle class american, you and me. Healthcare is the largest issue on the table - and all 3 delagtes want to ruin it. The democrats want a huge government funded program that will be inefficent and not worth the effort or money. The Republicans want to hand it over to the private market - great healthcare and Panera bread. Awesome. The private market will work for 5 years and then monopolies will form - since McCain wants to dissolve state line insurance laws. This will remove the price floor and the prices will fall so fast we will think its a blessing - then companies merge or get bought out since they cant compete. Then we get 3 big firms to run the prices up once a year...much like the oil companies do.

I am all for making money - but not off the sick, eldery, newborn, or on the backs of Americans.

We need to rethink how we view our world - and realize that our system needs adjustments if we are sustain our way of life.

[Breadfan]

Very well said. It is the first time i am of legal age to cast my vote for the presidential election....and i will not be doing so.

I don't complain about politics, because i do not participate. It's the same as gas. don't complain that prices are high, if you continue to use it and contribute to the problem.

Honestly, and I hate to say it, but this is the wrong attitude to have when it comes to voting.

You have a say in who you want to be President, you do NOT have to vote for the two highest up on the list.

There are other parties. Libertarian, Constitution Party, even Green. I'm sure there are other small parties, and plenty of Independents. Heck you can write in someone if you don't like anyone on the ballot.

The key is that you let YOUR voice get heard and that you excercise your right to make a choice and vote how you wish.

I personally believe we should have more than 2 "main" choices. 2 is not enough. The only time Republicans and Democrats AGREE is when they pass legislation to keep third or fourth parties out of the limelight, such as keeping them out of televised debates.

You want to see them actually agree and work together for a common goal it's to keep each the "main 2."

Each election I hear from so many people who complain they don't like the 2 choices. I say "Then vote third party" and they always say "Yeah I might as well not vote."

The thing is, a MAJORITY of people I talk to say similar things. They vote party lines because they feel they have to, or don't vote at all. If they stopped doing this and voted for what they wanted and what their hearts and minds said the third and fourth parties would get a bigger voice and more share of votes.

For each who thinks of voting for someone other than the big two because they would prefer too, but then ends up voting for one of the big two, your voice is not being heard as it should and you're making those who step up and vote their own way have less of a voice.

This country is built on free enterprise and through that competition gives choice and better product, maybe the same would go for politics. We have more than 2 parties let's not forget all are viable choices for each registered voter.

[Eric-Blk2004]

I agree - most people say I dont want to throw my vote away. And they are right - the electoral college votes red or blue.

News flash - MA goes blue....no matter what.

I wish I lived in a swing state - then at least I would feel I could change something.

[Go Mifuni]

I concur.
You want to make a difference? Either become a delegate or pass the word about voting for how you feel, not choosing the "lesser of two evils" as we've had to in the past.
Even though I live in a state where my voice "doesn't count" if I don't vote "blue", I'm voting for Ron Paul anyway. Even if he doesn't win, I hope at least that a significant number of votes for him will make the possibility of a third party become a reality.
We do not have a two party system. We have one party with two factions.
We need to take gov't back from the gov't.

[Rocknthehawk]

I concur.
You want to make a difference? Either become a delegate or pass the word about voting for how you feel, not choosing the "lesser of two evils" as we've had to in the past.
Even though I live in a state where my voice "doesn't count" if I don't vote "blue", I'm voting for Ron Paul anyway. Even if he doesn't win, I hope at least that a significant number of votes for him will make the possibility of a third party become a reality.
We do not have a two party system. We have one party with two factions.
We need to take gov't back from the gov't.


I understand, Breadfan. I don't have the right attitutde that there is only the big 2 to vote for. BUT, when that is already that majority in the primaries, it makes it difficult. I'm not democrat or republican, and i never will be.

I like Ron Paul a lot, he has great changes for our country, and for the average person, but i honestly could not see him running or supporting our country.

[xopher]

I personally believe we should have more than 2 "main" choices. 2 is not enough. The only time Republicans and Democrats AGREE is when they pass legislation to keep third or fourth parties out of the limelight, such as keeping them out of televised debates.
This is truly the core of the issue. I wont provide my political opinions, but I will provide (what I understand to be) some facts.

The Electoral College is an organization formed and recognized by our government to perform a specific task. Whether it should exist or how it performs its duty are another question, answered by 37 or more U.S. States agreeing that an Amendment to the U.S. Constitution be made to override, change, or eliminate the Electoral College as outlined in Amendment 12.

On the other hand, the delegates, and the political parties they represent (answering OPs question about views on Superdelegates) are not in the U.S. Constutution, the Bill of Rights, or the United States Code (where all of the too-long-to-read laws are). Just to make that clear again, the Democratic and Republican Parties are not government organizations, and their names are not in the body of law of the United States.

The US Code does recognize civil groups such as political parties and regulate their rights in civil discourse and participation in elections. Breadfan has the right idea, that slowly over time, local, state, and federal laws have been tweaked and adjusted to--as ParkRanger succinctly put it--avoid circumstances where "knuckleheads would get together and vote in a knucklehead". Unfortunately, our local and state legislators, not just far-off Washington, have legistlated not just the knuckleheads, but viable and legitimate third parties almost out of existence.

It starts in our backyards, where we demand that third parties are an option on the local and state level. When that is the case, then we can get the same at a federal level. Know why the 50s are considered by some to be the Golden Age of America? Civic participation locally. Rekindle that, and the US government will regain respect at home and abroad.

[sailsmen]

I just think that a two party system is not a choice. You are either with us or against us.

Do I believe in the war on terror? No, I believe in a war to fight for American lifestyle. We went into Iraq to ensure we could continue to have the luxurious life we all enjoy. Everyone on this site has a V8 monster that drinks the dinosaurs like we drink down beer. If we did not have oil and the means to obtain it where the hell would we put all these cars?

The war is a war of wants and not needs, but I still support it. We have not found a viable solution to oil, so we must fight for our right to have it. And if you dont think its about oil - where else would we get it? Exxon and company do not want to tap into their reserves, Brazil and south America are not dealing with us on a fair exchange. Neither are the Sudi's.

And thanks to hippie's we can not drill our own oceans for oil. So we must fight for it.

This election will just hurt the middle class american, you and me. Healthcare is the largest issue on the table - and all 3 delagtes want to ruin it. The democrats want a huge government funded program that will be inefficent and not worth the effort or money. The Republicans want to hand it over to the private market - great healthcare and Panera bread. Awesome. The private market will work for 5 years and then monopolies will form - since McCain wants to dissolve state line insurance laws. This will remove the price floor and the prices will fall so fast we will think its a blessing - then companies merge or get bought out since they cant compete. Then we get 3 big firms to run the prices up once a year...much like the oil companies do.

I am all for making money - but not off the sick, eldery, newborn, or on the backs of Americans.

We need to rethink how we view our world - and realize that our system needs adjustments if we are sustain our way of life.

Currently Exploration is banned for 80% off our shores.

Gasoline in todays dollars in the US is 10% less than the last peak price in 1982.

The devaluation of the Dollar was the biggest economic impact of 911. The War in Iraq has cost ~3% of Federal Spending. Defense is ~20% of Federal spending down 35% average annual from 1946-96.